Re: [talk-au] Wiki Clean Up Progress Update
On Mon, 18 Apr 2022 at 20:28, Bob Cameron wrote: > Good stuff Dian! > > I don't know how widespread the problem is, but Garmin GPS navigation > devices see no road surface tag as sealed. This can create routing stress > for the driver and possibly safety issues. Might be worth mentioning that > it's far better to default tag new roads in non urban areas as unpaved than > no tag, if the surface is unknown. > No, that would be tagging for the renderer. It should be fixed by the software/vendor to use a different default or simply display this to the user as unknown surface. If the surface is not known it should have no surface tag, and surface=paved/unpaved/etc only tagged when known. > I use surface:fine_gravel in places. Problem is that the gravel eventually > wears off and it becomes.. unpaved! Unpaved is also what one would use if > sourcing only from overhead imagery. This all for another discussion though. > I'm still not sure the best way to tag gravelly rocky sandy soil and usually just use unpaved. ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Wiki Clean Up Progress Update
Good stuff Dian! I don't know how widespread the problem is, but Garmin GPS navigation devices see no road surface tag as sealed. This can create routing stress for the driver and possibly safety issues. Might be worth mentioning that it's far better to default tag new roads in non urban areas as unpaved than no tag, if the surface is unknown. I use surface:fine_gravel in places. Problem is that the gravel eventually wears off and it becomes.. unpaved! Unpaved is also what one would use if sourcing only from overhead imagery. This all for another discussion though. Cheers Bob On 18/4/22 19:43, Dian Ågesson wrote: We should discourage the vague surface values of "paved" and "unpaved", instead using more specific tags like asphalt and compacted. Can we replace the example with something more specific than "surface=unpaved"? surface=gravel has it's own problems given the common use in Australia is different to the wiki description. I'm not sure the best way to address this. I agree with you that we would want to encourage a more accurate tag. From what I could see on the wiki and in overpass queries, there is a lot of confusion about the surface tag. I would definitely welcome this list revisiting the discussion, but I didn't feel confident changing what was already there. ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Wiki Clean Up Progress Update
Hey Kim, Thanks for the great feedback! Are all toll roads highway=motorway? All the ones I know in Victoria are. If so, we should add tollways to the description of highway=motorway There was nothing documented in the previous version of the road hierarchy about toll roads, but a quick overpass query shows that are are a couple of toll roads are motorways, (Query [1]) notably Brunton Avenue in Melbourne (tertiary), Go Between Bridge, Brisbane Should that be "impractical"? Yup, fixed. Unnamed Roads should use "noname=yes" and not "noname=*". That's probably what you intended, but may not be obvious to someone encountering the noname tag for the first time. Fixed, thanks. Should we talk about pipestems in driveways, given recent discussions on this list? Yeah, I'm happy to add pipestem details; did we settle on service=pipestem? We should discourage the vague surface values of "paved" and "unpaved", instead using more specific tags like asphalt and compacted. Can we replace the example with something more specific than "surface=unpaved"? surface=gravel has it's own problems given the common use in Australia is different to the wiki description. I'm not sure the best way to address this. I agree with you that we would want to encourage a more accurate tag. From what I could see on the wiki and in overpass queries, there is a lot of confusion about the surface tag. I would definitely welcome this list revisiting the discussion, but I didn't feel confident changing what was already there. Dian On 2022-04-18 07:10, Kim Oldfield via Talk-au wrote: Hi Dian, Some questions and comments. Are all toll roads highway=motorway? All the ones I know in Victoria are. If so, we should add tollways to the description of highway=motorway "Construction and maintenance of paved roads in profoundly remote areas is both practical and uneconomical" Should that be "impractical"? We should discourage the vague surface values of "paved" and "unpaved", instead using more specific tags like asphalt and compacted. Can we replace the example with something more specific than "surface=unpaved"? surface=gravel has it's own problems given the common use in Australia is different to the wiki description. I'm not sure the best way to address this. Should we talk about pipestems in driveways, given recent discussions on this list? Unnamed Roads should use "noname=yes" and not "noname=*". That's probably what you intended, but may not be obvious to someone encountering the noname tag for the first time. Regards, Kim On 17/4/22 23:23, Dian Ågesson wrote: Hello list, Cleanup has of the Tagging Guidelines page is continuing. The https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Australian_Tagging_Guidelines/Australia%27s_First_Peoples received positive feedback, and has now been integrated fully into the page. The second Tagging Guidelines subpage of the cleanu[ is ready for community endorsement: https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Australian_Tagging_Guidelines/Roads. This subpage was hard. This section had a lot of really old content, some of which had been largely unchanged for a decade. There was a lot of generic, non-Australia specific advice and explanations justifying what is now well accepted tagging practices. I have tried my best to update the wording of the relevant sections while keeping the intent and advice within consistent with the original while removing outdated information. I've also been guided by the actual usage of some of the tags suggested, which have not been implemented despite their documentation many years ago. Please, review this page and let me know your thoughts and feedback. If there are no objections, the old text from the guidelines will be removed. Dian ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au Links: -- [1] https://overpass-turbo.eu/s/1hKL___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Wiki Clean Up Progress Update
Hi Dian, Some questions and comments. Are all toll roads highway=motorway? All the ones I know in Victoria are. If so, we should add tollways to the description of highway=motorway "Construction and maintenance of paved roads in profoundly remote areas is both practical and uneconomical" Should that be "impractical"? We should discourage the vague surface values of "paved" and "unpaved", instead using more specific tags like asphalt and compacted. Can we replace the example with something more specific than "surface=unpaved"? surface=gravel has it's own problems given the common use in Australia is different to the wiki description. I'm not sure the best way to address this. Should we talk about pipestems in driveways, given recent discussions on this list? Unnamed Roads should use "noname=yes" and not "noname=*". That's probably what you intended, but may not be obvious to someone encountering the noname tag for the first time. Regards, Kim On 17/4/22 23:23, Dian Ågesson wrote: Hello list, Cleanup has of the Tagging Guidelines page is continuing. The https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Australian_Tagging_Guidelines/Australia%27s_First_Peoples received positive feedback, and has now been integrated fully into the page. The second Tagging Guidelines subpage of the cleanu[ is ready for community endorsement:https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Australian_Tagging_Guidelines/Roads. This subpage was hard. This section had a lot of really old content, some of which had been largely unchanged for a decade. There was a lot of generic, non-Australia specific advice and explanations justifying what is now well accepted tagging practices. I have tried my best to update the wording of the relevant sections while keeping the intent and advice within consistent with the original while removing outdated information. I've also been guided by the actual usage of some of the tags suggested, which have not been implemented despite their documentation many years ago. Please, review this page and let me know your thoughts and feedback. If there are no objections, the old text from the guidelines will be removed. Dian ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Wiki Clean Up Progress Update
Looks good to me, thanks, Dian! Corrected one minor typo. & I wasn't aware of tracktypes 6, 7 & 8! Thanks Graeme On Sun, 17 Apr 2022 at 23:26, Dian Ågesson wrote: > Hello list, > > Cleanup has of the Tagging Guidelines page is continuing. > > The > https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Australian_Tagging_Guidelines/Australia%27s_First_Peoples > received positive feedback, and has now been integrated fully into the page. > > The second Tagging Guidelines subpage of the cleanu[ is ready for > community endorsement: > https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Australian_Tagging_Guidelines/Roads. > > This subpage was hard. This section had a lot of really old content, some > of which had been largely unchanged for a decade. There was a lot of > generic, non-Australia specific advice and explanations justifying what is > now well accepted tagging practices. I have tried my best to update the > wording of the relevant sections while keeping the intent and advice within > consistent with the original while removing outdated information. I've also > been guided by the actual usage of some of the tags suggested, which have > not been implemented despite their documentation many years ago. > > Please, review this page and let me know your thoughts and feedback. If > there are no objections, the old text from the guidelines will be removed. > > Dian > ___ > Talk-au mailing list > Talk-au@openstreetmap.org > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au > ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
[talk-au] Wiki Clean Up Progress Update
Hello list, Cleanup has of the Tagging Guidelines page is continuing. The https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Australian_Tagging_Guidelines/Australia%27s_First_Peoples received positive feedback, and has now been integrated fully into the page. The second Tagging Guidelines subpage of the cleanu[ is ready for community endorsement: https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Australian_Tagging_Guidelines/Roads. This subpage was hard. This section had a lot of really old content, some of which had been largely unchanged for a decade. There was a lot of generic, non-Australia specific advice and explanations justifying what is now well accepted tagging practices. I have tried my best to update the wording of the relevant sections while keeping the intent and advice within consistent with the original while removing outdated information. I've also been guided by the actual usage of some of the tags suggested, which have not been implemented despite their documentation many years ago. Please, review this page and let me know your thoughts and feedback. If there are no objections, the old text from the guidelines will be removed. Dian___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
[talk-au] Wiki Clean Up Progress Update
Hello all, As discussed in an earlier email chain, I have started to perform some clean up of the wiki. To do this, I am building a set of pages in my wiki "Userspace", to avoid causing overlap with the current versions. I am documenting my changes/work here: https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/User:Diacritic/Au_Clean/Log, but in the interest of transparency I'd like to share a bit of my progress at this (very) early stage. Progress - Australia Landing Page I have created a new landing page for the Australia project using a modified version of the Template:Place template which was on the page previously. This new template has a neater map and removes the large, uncustomisable blue block that is at the top of the page. https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/User:Diacritic/Au_Clean - Templates I have also created quite a few templates that will aid with navigation and consistency across the different Australia pages, and its subprojects. I initially went a little overboard with these templates, but have trimmed them back a bit in preparation for more content to be written in the pages. - State Projects Pages have been created for each state project, but have not yet been filled with content. I am hoping that the new navigation templates will make it easier for Australia-wide content to be placed on the Au pages, leaving the state/city pages to be more focussed on local content. https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/User:Diacritic/Au_Clean/Western_Australia For cities which did not have content on the wiki, I have created a template that will direct mappers to their respective state projects. - New Community Page There are a lot of different events pages, meetups and other social pages that are seriously out of date. Given the Front Page of the wiki has migrated to the OSM Calendar, I have tried to centralise all community channels/events to https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/User:Diacritic/Au_Clean/Community. Old events will be archived and accessible on that page as well. - New Resources Page The existing Aerial Imagery and Data Sources pages have been merged into a single https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/User:Diacritic/Au_Clean/Resources page. @AHarvey, and others who maintain these pages, would appreciate your thoughts as to whether this layout works for you. Next Steps - Flavour Text/Content Each of the pages, generally, need more words. I've put placeholder text in spots where some more expository language can go. This will fill out as the work progresses - History Section. One of the things that struck me about these old wiki pages is simply how much history there is in the Australia mapping project. Many editors have come and gone but their influence remains. If there is an "old-timer" or particularly nostalgic editor that would be interested in writing a short history of OSM Au for the "Memory Lane" https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/User:Diacritic/Au_Clean/Community, please get in touch. - Active City Projects There are quite a few cities that have active Wiki projects, and some of the editors I haven't seen on this mailing list. Before attempting to create a new version of those pages, I'd like to engage with the dedicated mappers directly to ensure the best info is moved across. - Tagging Guidelines Page This is probably the page that will require the most thought. I have not attempted to migrate it into a new form until the templates, layouts and general standard of the wiki pages has been clarified. Thanks! Please let me know your thoughts on these pages (preferably on the talk pages on the wiki, as it's easier to keep track there!), so that I can ensure everyone is happy with the results. :) I'll be in touch once I've made more meaningful progress as well. Dian___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
