Re: [talk-au] Manipulating ABS suburb data, and related data..
On Sun, 26 Apr 2009, Liz wrote: 1433 nodes split it into 600+ and 700+, still couldn't upload the change. I wait on the bug report - someone has another problem with relations and they may be related problems Merkaartor let me bypass the problem and split the way however, now one length has two relations member of multipolygon Oxley member of mulitpolygon KeriKeri other sector has only one relation member of multipolygon KeriKeri attempting to add this sector to multipolygon Oxley fails transfer aborted due to error condition 'Interesting' problem back to bug reporting and somewhere out here (Balranald region) is a way with over 3000 nodes so it will choke too at some stage :-( ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Manipulating ABS suburb data, and related data..
I'll give some thought to how to fix this. If we have find that there are still issues after the bug fixs (i.e the editors can't split them in to smaller bits), I think I can work out how to delete the way, upload replacement shorter ways and link them back in to the relation cheers On Mon, Apr 27, 2009 at 10:40 PM, Liz ed...@billiau.net wrote: On Sun, 26 Apr 2009, Liz wrote: 1433 nodes split it into 600+ and 700+, still couldn't upload the change. I wait on the bug report - someone has another problem with relations and they may be related problems Merkaartor let me bypass the problem and split the way however, now one length has two relations member of multipolygon Oxley member of mulitpolygon KeriKeri other sector has only one relation member of multipolygon KeriKeri attempting to add this sector to multipolygon Oxley fails transfer aborted due to error condition 'Interesting' problem back to bug reporting and somewhere out here (Balranald region) is a way with over 3000 nodes so it will choke too at some stage :-( ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au -- Franc ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Manipulating ABS suburb data, and related data..
On Mon, 27 Apr 2009 22:40:04 +1000 Liz ed...@billiau.net wrote: On Sun, 26 Apr 2009, Liz wrote: 1433 nodes split it into 600+ and 700+, still couldn't upload the change. I wait on the bug report - someone has another problem with relations and they may be related problems Merkaartor let me bypass the problem and split the way however, now one length has two relations member of multipolygon Oxley member of mulitpolygon KeriKeri other sector has only one relation member of multipolygon KeriKeri attempting to add this sector to multipolygon Oxley fails transfer aborted due to error condition 'Interesting' problem back to bug reporting and somewhere out here (Balranald region) is a way with over 3000 nodes so it will choke too at some stage :-( I'm working on 2 relations like this on KI that sound like they are having the same kind of issue. ANY edit of any form to the relation would cause an error - EXCEPT deleting I eventually tried on one of them. So I've just kept a copy of all the details about the relation, deleted the old one and created an identical one that matched the original, THEN I could edit the new one without any trouble. I suspect the same thing might work with the 'Oxley' relation (I think your successful split was because the way that kept the realtion was the one that kept the original way Id # and therefore there was no edit actually required on the relation). -- =b ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Manipulating ABS suburb data, and related data..
On Mon, 27 Apr 2009, Darrin Smith wrote: I'm working on 2 relations like this on KI that sound like they are having the same kind of issue. ANY edit of any form to the relation would cause an error - EXCEPT deleting I eventually tried on one of them. So I've just kept a copy of all the details about the relation, deleted the old one and created an identical one that matched the original, THEN I could edit the new one without any trouble. I suspect the same thing might work with the 'Oxley' relation (I think your successful split was because the way that kept the realtion was the one that kept the original way Id # and therefore there was no edit actually required on the relation). -- =b I'm going to hold now on this until I see something happen with the bug report so we know what we should do http://trac.openstreetmap.org/ticket/1745 ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Manipulating ABS suburb data, and related data..
On Sun, 26 Apr 2009, Elizabeth Dodd wrote: On Sat, 25 Apr 2009, Franc Carter wrote: Hmm, one thing that I forgot to check is the number of nodes in the ways - I seem to remember that 0.6 was going to introduce a limit on this . . . . cheers The limit is 2000, and the involved way 1,400 or so, but it might be a clue; if i break the really big ones in the middle they might save 1433 nodes split it into 600+ and 700+, still couldn't upload the change. I wait on the bug report - someone has another problem with relations and they may be related problems ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Manipulating ABS suburb data, and related data..
Thanks for the comments on this. It appears that the practice is that when it is apparent to a knowledgeable mapper that the ABS data should align with another OSM way, we apply the relation to the OSM way and alter the OSM way if required, after giving due consideration to the accuracy of the two sources. Attribution is still a little unclear. Darrin rightfully suggests that even when we relocate ABS imported data entirely, we are still using the ABS information that a suburb boundary exists in the vicinity, and which suburbs it divides. ABS therefore deserve attribution. However, I think ABS would not like to be attributed for a boundary that is changed, so there needs to be a fair way to indicate that. If a way is fully relocated from the original ABS way, and the mapper has local knowledge of the administrative boundary in the relation it may be best to remove the ABS attribution, as it is misleading if the ABS data is not used. For example, I walked around Lady Elliot Island on the weekend, and surveyed the coastline. http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=-24.11473 lon=152.71553zoom=16layers=B000FTF. I'm going to wholly relocate the administrative boundary. In this case, even the LGA is wrong in the ABS data (due to the recent merges in Qld). So, I don't see the need for any ABS attribution. Ian. ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Manipulating ABS suburb data, and related data..
On Fri, 17 Apr 2009, Liz wrote: On Fri, 17 Apr 2009, Franc Carter wrote: I'm currently wrestling with trying to get a handle on how we can tell whether the ABS data is more geographically accurate than yahoo or other data (not necessairly whether it is an accuate reflection of the boundaries) So, yes - thoughts please ABS is more accurate is more accurate than my river tracing. I don't foresee me taking to canoeing down the rivers for a really accurate trace either. I'm hoping that some of the Lachlan has been used for ABS boundaries to replace some of my extremely rough and ready tracing there. Struck a problem, in that new API chokes on trying to split some of these ways. I've logged the problem in trac, but still disappointed as very few of my river edits have been successful in upload. ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Manipulating ABS suburb data, and related data..
On Sat, 25 Apr 2009, Franc Carter wrote: Hmm, one thing that I forgot to check is the number of nodes in the ways - I seem to remember that 0.6 was going to introduce a limit on this . . . . cheers The limit is 2000, and the involved way 1,400 or so, but it might be a clue; if i break the really big ones in the middle they might save -- Accidents cause History. If Sigismund Unbuckle had taken a walk in 1426 and met Wat Tyler, the Peasant's Revolt would never have happened and the motor car would not have been invented until 2026, which would have meant that all the oil could have been used for lamps, thus saving the electric light bulb and the whale, and nobody would have caught Moby Dick or Billy Budd. -- Mike Harding, The Armchair Anarchist's Almanac ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Manipulating ABS suburb data, and related data..
Hi. I think I'm with Darren on all counts. I think the only thing I'd add is where local knowledge tells you that the ABS data aligns to some previously unmapped feature (e.g. a river) that cannot be made out on Landsat (no Yahoo coverage). There I'm tempted to add the natural feature data to the existing ABS way, and leave the ABS attribution in. I have seen a few places where the ABS suburb boundary seems to exactly match a river or creek outside the Yahoo coverage, and there is no easy way to get a GPS trace for the creek. I'm doing some surveying around Tamworth NSW this weekend, and I was looking forward to uploading my traces tonight, but of course the OSM database is being upgraded! - Ben. ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Manipulating ABS suburb data, and related data..
On Sun, 19 Apr 2009 19:47:04 +1000 Ben Kelley ben.kel...@gmail.com wrote: Hi. I think I'm with Darren on all counts. I think the only thing I'd add is where local knowledge tells you that the ABS data aligns to some previously unmapped feature (e.g. a river) that cannot be made out on Landsat (no Yahoo coverage). There I'm tempted to add the natural feature data to the existing ABS way, and leave the ABS attribution in. I have seen a few places where the ABS suburb boundary seems to exactly match a river or creek outside the Yahoo coverage, and there is no easy way to get a GPS trace for the creek. Oh yeah, I've done that for a couple of things too now that you mention it :) And yes I've left the attribution tag in for sure. I'm doing some surveying around Tamworth NSW this weekend, and I was looking forward to uploading my traces tonight, but of course the OSM database is being upgraded! Know that feeling, I have several days of Easter holiday traces to go in also. *twiddles*thumbs* -- =b ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Manipulating ABS suburb data, and related data..
On Sun, 19 Apr 2009, Darrin Smith wrote: Know that feeling, I have several days of Easter holiday traces to go in also. *twiddles*thumbs* we were just catching up from December in our house, now the days are shorter, and have stuff waiting for upload more thumb twiddling ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Manipulating ABS suburb data, and related data..
On Fri, 17 Apr 2009, Franc Carter wrote: I'm currently wrestling with trying to get a handle on how we can tell whether the ABS data is more geographically accurate than yahoo or other data (not necessairly whether it is an accuate reflection of the boundaries) So, yes - thoughts please ABS is more accurate is more accurate than my river tracing. I don't foresee me taking to canoeing down the rivers for a really accurate trace either. I'm hoping that some of the Lachlan has been used for ABS boundaries to replace some of my extremely rough and ready tracing there. ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Manipulating ABS suburb data, and related data..
I totally agee that it's a good idea to work this out, I've been silent on the matter because I'm far from clear as to what is a good approach. I'm currently wrestling with trying to get a handle on how we can tell whether the ABS data is more geographically accurate than yahoo or other data (not necessairly whether it is an accuate reflection of the boundaries) So, yes - thoughts please cheers On Fri, Apr 17, 2009 at 2:05 PM, Ian Sergeant iserg...@hih.com.au wrote: Okay - so the ABS data is in. Moving the Murrumbidgee appears successful. Can we document a process for how we treat this data and the data surrounding it. Firstly, is it generally desirable for it to align with other data? For example coastline and riverbanks, where it is apparent that it should align? If so, do we reuse the same ways, and just apply the relation? If so, and in a particular case we are confident that the ABS data isn't correctly aligned to a feature - say a coastline - how do we indicate that it is altered on the relation? Perhaps if we have a standard way of doing this, we can put it on the wiki somwhere. Any thoughts? Ian. ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au -- Franc ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
