Re: [talk-au] NSW Bridle Track

[cleary]

I have previously suggested in several posts that we should not rely on the NSW 
Base Map if there is another source of information, primarily because outdated 
information is often not updated in the Base Map.

However, in this instance, I think the Base Map shows the correct name. 

When OSM was initially permitted access to a range of NSW Government sources 
including the Base Map, Imagery, Topographic Map etc, one of the resources was 
the NSW Address Location Service. I understand that this is used for emergency 
services (fire, ambulance, police etc) and there has been an imperative to 
maintain its accuracy. I have found it very useful in instances where there is 
uncertainty over the name of a road. When the Base Map is wrong, the Address 
Location Service shows the correct name.  I'm not sure if there are other ways 
to access it, but I do so by inserting  a housenumber, road name, road type, 
suburb and postcode in a string that confirms if an address is correct or 
provides no output if wrong. If the housenumber is the only incorrect data, it 
may return a result with a nearby housenumber.  When I inserted "Bridle" and 
"Track" no output was produced, indicating this was an incorrect address. When 
I inserted "The Bridle" and "Track", I received a positive output indicating 
that "The Bridle Track" is the officially correct name.

If anyone is interested, here are two URLs that I used in this exercise:

https://maps.six.nsw.gov.au/services/public/Address_Location?houseNumber=4176=Bridle=Track=Bruinbun=2795=EPSG%3A4326

https://maps.six.nsw.gov.au/services/public/Address_Location?houseNumber=4176=The
 Bridle=Track=Bruinbun=2795=EPSG%3A4326

The way the output is displayed seems to vary slightly with different browsers 
(I prefer Firefox)  but the essential information is the same, whichever 
browser one uses.




On Mon, 6 Mar 2023, at 8:59 PM, Mark Pulley wrote:
> One question I forgot to ask yesterday - what do I call the track?
>
> When I did my original survey in 2009, I called it ‘Bridle Track’. At 
> some stage it was changed to “The Bridle Track” as that is the name 
> used on the DCS NSW Base Map.
>
> All the road name signs I saw on this trip have “Bridle Track” (without 
> the “The”)
>
> The signs on the camp areas had “Bridle Track” at the top near the 
> reserve name, but “The Bridle Track” on the map on the signs.
>
> Should I remove the “The” from the name? 
>
> Mark P.
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Re: [talk-au] NSW Bridle Track

[Warin]

On 6/3/23 20:59, Mark Pulley wrote:

One question I forgot to ask yesterday - what do I call the track?

When I did my original survey in 2009, I called it ‘Bridle Track’. At 
some stage it was changed to “The Bridle Track” as that is the name 
used on the DCS NSW Base Map.


All the road name signs I saw on this trip have “Bridle Track” 
(without the “The”)


The signs on the camp areas had “Bridle Track” at the top near the 
reserve name, but “The Bridle Track” on the map on the signs.


Should I remove the “The” from the name?



Thanks for the survey!

Yes please to remove 'The' if that is not how it is signed locally. 
Maybe alt_name=The etc?


I expect the bull dust is due to traffic and no watering of the road as 
it was constructed. When it gets rain there maybe washer ways where the 
bull dist now exists..


I expect further deregulation with more traffic until it gets bad enough 
to discourage many.



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Re: [talk-au] NSW Bridle Track

[Mark Pulley]

One question I forgot to ask yesterday - what do I call the track?

When I did my original survey in 2009, I called it ‘Bridle Track’. At some 
stage it was changed to “The Bridle Track” as that is the name used on the DCS 
NSW Base Map.

All the road name signs I saw on this trip have “Bridle Track” (without the 
“The”)

The signs on the camp areas had “Bridle Track” at the top near the reserve 
name, but “The Bridle Track” on the map on the signs.

Should I remove the “The” from the name? 

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Re: [talk-au] NSW Bridle Track

[cleary]

Survey is the most reliable source. Thanks for doing it.


On Sun, 5 Mar 2023, at 10:35 PM, Mark Pulley wrote:
> I’ve just uploaded my edits from yesterday’s Bridle Track trip. I got 
> as far as Monaghans Bluff in my 2WD. I then walked the old road, then 
> returned to my car via the new road. Road looks good, but there is 
> bulldust present on some sections, particularly the ascent from the 
> Bathurst side. I saw a 4WD lose traction on this, and I had the same 
> problem when I tried (only did the first rise from the creek to where 
> the old road turned off) so I turned back. I didn’t see signs of any 
> further work on the other parts of the Bridle Track that I saw, but 
> online I did see references to grading work on the Hill End to Turon 
> River section.
>
> There is a sign (at Hodges Road) advising the road is 4WD only, so I’ve 
> marked the road past there as 4wd_only=yes. I’ve left the road 
> classifications as they were.
>
> Mark P.
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Re: [talk-au] NSW Bridle Track

[Mark Pulley]

I’ve just uploaded my edits from yesterday’s Bridle Track trip. I got as far as 
Monaghans Bluff in my 2WD. I then walked the old road, then returned to my car 
via the new road. Road looks good, but there is bulldust present on some 
sections, particularly the ascent from the Bathurst side. I saw a 4WD lose 
traction on this, and I had the same problem when I tried (only did the first 
rise from the creek to where the old road turned off) so I turned back. I 
didn’t see signs of any further work on the other parts of the Bridle Track 
that I saw, but online I did see references to grading work on the Hill End to 
Turon River section.

There is a sign (at Hodges Road) advising the road is 4WD only, so I’ve marked 
the road past there as 4wd_only=yes. I’ve left the road classifications as they 
were.

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Re: [talk-au] NSW Bridle Track

[Warin]

On 22/2/23 08:27, Mark Pulley wrote:
On 21 Feb 2023, at 2:42 pm, Josh Marshall  
wrote:


Australian road tagging guidelines at 
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Australian_Tagging_Guidelines/Roads arguably 
override the general OSM guidelines, and they read:


highway=track: "Service and access roads that aren't part of the 
general road network. Generally not paved, often not public access 
for vehicles."... in rural "Fire trails, forest drives, 4WD tracks, 
and similar roads.


highway=unclassified is: "Minor roads that are neither tertiary or 
residential roads. Not generally through routes."


Given that, I'd argue =track is the right option.


When I surveyed the Bridle Track back in 2009 (I think this was the 
year before the landslide) I picked highway=track as it was very 
rough. I don’t remember if it was signposted four-wheel-drive only, 
but I can still remember the look of shock on the face of the tourist 
information lady at Hill End when I mentioned I had arrived via the 
Bridle Track in my two-wheel-drive vehicle!


The new section bypassing the landslide at Monaghans Bluff looks good 
in the photos I’ve seen of the construction, but whether it remains 
good is another question. There was no work on the remainder of the track.



I have a report Feb 6th halfway down the first hill from Hill End, the 
council had dozers and graders on the road getting it looking good...




If the classification was changed to highway=unclassified, it will 
definitely need the addition of 4wd_only=recommended


highway=tertiary is wrong. I would not use the DCS NSW Base Map as a 
source for the highway classification. I’ve seen too many errors in 
this map to trust this. (As an example, in Armidale NSW, Boorolong 
Road comes in from the west as a tertiary road. As it enters Armidale, 
the main road then follows Handel Street / Queen Elizabeth Drive, but 
the Base Map takes the road classification across the train line and 
along Shambrook Avenue, a minor and narrow road.)


I’ll have a look at the new road when I can (if not this weekend, then 
the weekend after), as I live close by.



Thanks, I think it will be busy, take care.



Mark P.


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Re: [talk-au] NSW Bridle Track

[Mark Pulley]

> On 21 Feb 2023, at 2:42 pm, Josh Marshall  wrote:
> 
> Australian road tagging guidelines at 
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Australian_Tagging_Guidelines/Roads 
>  
> arguably override the general OSM guidelines, and they read:
> 
> highway=track: "Service and access roads that aren't part of the general road 
> network. Generally not paved, often not public access for vehicles."... in 
> rural "Fire trails, forest drives, 4WD tracks, and similar roads.
> 
> highway=unclassified is: "Minor roads that are neither tertiary or 
> residential roads. Not generally through routes."
> 
> Given that, I'd argue =track is the right option.


When I surveyed the Bridle Track back in 2009 (I think this was the year before 
the landslide) I picked highway=track as it was very rough. I don’t remember if 
it was signposted four-wheel-drive only, but I can still remember the look of 
shock on the face of the tourist information lady at Hill End when I mentioned 
I had arrived via the Bridle Track in my two-wheel-drive vehicle!

The new section bypassing the landslide at Monaghans Bluff looks good in the 
photos I’ve seen of the construction, but whether it remains good is another 
question. There was no work on the remainder of the track.

If the classification was changed to highway=unclassified, it will definitely 
need the addition of 4wd_only=recommended

highway=tertiary is wrong. I would not use the DCS NSW Base Map as a source for 
the highway classification. I’ve seen too many errors in this map to trust 
this. (As an example, in Armidale NSW, Boorolong Road comes in from the west as 
a tertiary road. As it enters Armidale, the main road then follows Handel 
Street / Queen Elizabeth Drive, but the Base Map takes the road classification 
across the train line and along Shambrook Avenue, a minor and narrow road.)

I’ll have a look at the new road when I can (if not this weekend, then the 
weekend after), as I live close by.

Mark P.

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