Re: [OSM-talk-be] Brussels

[Marc Gemis]

I'll agree with that, if it's correctly tagged, we should not change it.
But how do we know that it is tagged correctly, if there is no place to see
it in action?

m


On Wed, Nov 13, 2013 at 7:08 PM, Kurt Roeckx  wrote:

> On Wed, Nov 13, 2013 at 06:12:30PM +0100, Marc Gemis wrote:
> > All those problems are important to a group of people, but they are all
> > exceptions to the general rules. So maybe we should just take up all
> those
> > complaints with the Nominatim developers, because they might not be aware
> > of all those exceptions.
>
> There are already various bugs open with no reaction.  It's not
> because nominatim gets it wrong that we should change something.
>
>
> Kurt
>
>
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[OSM-talk-be] Philippines disaster

[Johan C]

Hi

at http://tasks.hotosm.org/job/350 post disaster satellite imagery has been
made available for mapping Tacloban, one of the heaviest hit cities in the
Philippines. Your help mapping there is welcome (JOSM experience needed,
and please carefully follow the instructions). OSM based maps are being
used by (at least) the American Red Cross which means that your mapping
might save lives. More info can be found here:
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk/2013-November/068573.html
When task 350 is completed other tasks are available at
http://tasks.hotosm.org

Johan
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Re: [OSM-talk-be] WMS for OSM using EPSG:31370 (Lambert 72)

[Ben Abelshausen]

On Wed, Nov 13, 2013 at 8:35 PM,  wrote:

> QGIS user doesn't need this, but they are advanced user. We target people
> who are not GIS user there.
>
> Right ?
>

Exactly, still working on this at the moment.

Met vriendelijke groeten,
Best regards,

Ben Abelshausen
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Re: [OSM-talk-be] WMS for OSM using EPSG:31370 (Lambert 72)

[julien]

 

As far as I understand, the main usage of tiles projeted in
Lambert72 or Lambert 2008 is to be mixed with data from AGIV or Walloon
Regio, which doesn't support 900913 (nor 3857) in their WMS services. We
are developping an app today and this is a problem to mix information
from Walloon Regio and OSM because the need of projectio. 

QGIS user
doesn't need this, but they are advanced user. We target people who are
not GIS user there. 

Right ? 

Julien 

Le 2013-11-12 19:14, Ben
Abelshausen a écrit : 

> Hi Kurt,
> 
> Yes there are always better
technical solutions. The idea is to make is easy as possible for data
consumers to use our maps, preferably as easy as other competing
sources.
> 
> Having this already setup supporting the correct
projection(s) would be a good thing not just for QGIS but other
applications are more demanding. In my specific example OpenLayers is
used and it is impossible (or hard) to combine layers with different
projections. 
> No idea why they stay with the old system, probably
because it would require rewriting some things switching now.
> 
>
Regards,
> 
> Ben 
> 
>
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Re: [OSM-talk-be] Brussels

[Kurt Roeckx]

On Wed, Nov 13, 2013 at 06:12:30PM +0100, Marc Gemis wrote:
> All those problems are important to a group of people, but they are all
> exceptions to the general rules. So maybe we should just take up all those
> complaints with the Nominatim developers, because they might not be aware
> of all those exceptions.

There are already various bugs open with no reaction.  It's not
because nominatim gets it wrong that we should change something.


Kurt


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Re: [OSM-talk-be] Brussels

[Marc Gemis]

On Wed, Nov 13, 2013 at 4:27 PM, André Pirard wrote:

> On 2013-11-13 12:18, Marc Gemis wrote :
>
> Can someone please tell me how I can properly tag this POI
> http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/237662466 ?
>
>  It's a shop located in the Pierstraat in Reet. The building has an
> addr:street tag and is part of an associatedStreet relation. However
> Nominatim (and openlinkmap) places it in the Pierstraat - Matenstraat. Do a
> look-up for "Vero Golf" on osm.org
>
> Would anyone mind so little? ;-)
>
>
Because I promised to write some guidelines for the import of AGIV
addresses, I want to know what I should write. I also think my problem is
more common than yours. By this I mean that it show be obvious to any
mapper to tag a POI so that it's address is returned correctly.

Maybe Belgium is unique regarding its "administrative borders". Although
the Germans also have problems with cities such as Hamburg, because it
misses an administrative layer (see talk mailing list of the past 2 weeks).
And in India they have a problem with their country borders

All those problems are important to a group of people, but they are all
exceptions to the general rules. So maybe we should just take up all those
complaints with the Nominatim developers, because they might not be aware
of all those exceptions.

m

m
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Re: [OSM-talk-be] Brussels

[Ben Laenen]

On Wednesday 13 November 2013 16:27:11 André Pirard wrote:
> The issue seems clear to me, especially in French.
> We have 3 kinds of persons according to the official language they
> speak, but we have *4 territories* one of which is bilingual in the
> sense that their people can choose between two languages. "behorend tot
> zowel" is ambiguous: it should made clear that it speaks of the persons
> and not the territories.
> But that's obvious. A territory cannot be inside 2 disjoint territories,
> and that's the problem...
> As OSM is obviously drawing territories, the communities do not fit in
> relations, these must contain territories
> 
> As nobody cares, as I am presently involved in Brussels modifications,
> and as I know boundaries well, I can do that:
> - add a 4th territory aka community for Brussels.

Please don't make up names. There's no Brussels community so don't invent one. 
The one thing I now agree with is getting the communities out of the 
administrative boundaries, if only to please software that gets its mind blown 
when it belongs to two entities of the same kind at once.

But that seems to have happened anyway already, see 
http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/relation/78967 . You just have to wait 
until nominatim has updated its database.

Greetings,
Ben


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Re: [OSM-talk-be] Brussels

[Gerard Vanderveken]

 The only problem is how to name it.
The three territories are called:

Flemish Community, Communauté flamande, Vlaamse Gemeenschap, Flämische 
Gemeinschaft
French Community, Communauté française, Franse Gemeenschap, 
Französische Gemeinschaft
German-speaking Community, Communauté germanophone, Duitstalige 
Gemeenschap, Deutschsprachige Gemeinschaft


They should normally not be called territories, but I'm not going to 
start a misunderstood revolution.

Brussels' Community? Bilingual Community?



I think it should be Bilingual Community, because
- that border level refers to the languages and Brussels is not (an 
official one)
- it's a neutral description and does not favourite one of the languages 
as else one of them should be mentioned first.
A note could explain that the community is part of both, but is mapped 
seperatly, because of the limitations of OSM.


Regards,
Gerard.

André Pirard wrote:


On 2013-11-13 12:18, Marc Gemis wrote :

Can someone please tell me how I can properly tag this 
POI http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/237662466 ?


It's a shop located in the Pierstraat in Reet. The building has an 
addr:street tag and is part of an associatedStreet relation. However 
Nominatim (and openlinkmap) places it in the Pierstraat - 
Matenstraat. Do a look-up for "Vero Golf" on osm.org 


Would anyone mind so little? ;-)

Brussels: Village Boundary Brussels, Ville de Bruxelles, 
Brussels-Capital, French Community, Brussels-Capital Region, 
1000;1040, Belgium 



Nominatim locates that village in the French Community !!!
And nobody seems to care !!!



...
Territorialité des langues



La Constitution belge a prévu, en son article 4 
, 
quatre régions linguistiques 
 : 
la région de langue néerlandaise, la région de Bruxelles-Capitale 
(bilingue français-néerlandais), la région de langue française et la 
région de langue allemande (la plupart des communes des Cantons de 
l'Est 
). 
Ces quatre zones délimitent les territoires où chaque langue est la 
langue officielle, avec en plus trente communes situées près des 
frontières linguistiques où des minorités historiques bénéficient de 
facilités linguistiques 
.


Les Communautés ne représentent donc pas directement l'ensemble des 
personnes parlant une des langues officielles, mais les habitants des 
différentes régions linguistiques.





  Gemeenschap (België)
  

Een gemeenschap is een persoonsgebonden overheid in België 
.


...

Alle Belgen vallen onder een van de volgende drie taalgemeenschappen ...

...


Brussel

Brussel is officieel tweetalig, behorend tot zowel de Vlaamse en 
Franse gemeenschap...




The issue seems clear to me, especially in French.
We have 3 kinds of persons according to the official language they 
speak, but we have 4 territories one of which is bilingual in the 
sense that their people can choose between two languages. "behorend 
tot zowel" is ambiguous: it should made clear that it speaks of the 
persons and not the territories.
But that's obvious. A territory cannot be inside 2 disjoint 
territories, and that's the problem...
As OSM is obviously drawing territories, the communities do not fit in 
relations, these must contain territories


As nobody cares, as I am presently involved in Brussels modifications, 
and as I know boundaries well, I can do that:

- add a 4th territory aka community for Brussels.
The only problem is how to name it.
The three territories are called:

Flemish Community, Communauté flamande, Vlaamse Gemeenschap, Flämische 
Gemeinschaft
French Community, Communauté française, Franse Gemeenschap, 
Französische Gemeinschaft
German-speaking Community, Communauté germanophone, Duitstalige 
Gemeenschap, Deutschsprachige Gemeinschaft


They should normally not be called territories, but I'm not going to 
start a misunderstood revolution.

Brussels' Community? Bilingual Community?

I know this is a complex street that starts as Pierstraat in 
Reet/Rumst in the east ,...


I know it's a complex country that starts as Pierstraat in the west, 
... :-)


Cheers,
Cordialement,

André.




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[OSM-talk-be] Brussels

[André Pirard]

On 2013-11-13 12:18, Marc Gemis wrote :
> Can someone please tell me how I can properly tag this
> POI http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/237662466 ?
>
> It's a shop located in the Pierstraat in Reet. The building has an
> addr:street tag and is part of an associatedStreet relation. However
> Nominatim (and openlinkmap) places it in the Pierstraat - Matenstraat.
> Do a look-up for "Vero Golf" on osm.org 
Would anyone mind so little? ;-)
> Brussels: *Village* Boundary Brussels, Ville de Bruxelles,
> Brussels-Capital, *French Community*, Brussels-Capital Region,
> 1000;1040, Belgium
> 
Nominatim locates that village in the French Community !!!
And nobody seems to care !!!

>
> ...
> Territorialité des langues
> 
> 
>
> La Constitution belge a prévu, en son article 4
> ,
> _*quatre *__*régions linguistiques
> *_ :
> la région de langue néerlandaise, la région de Bruxelles-Capitale
> (bilingue français-néerlandais), la région de langue française et la
> région de langue allemande (la plupart des communes des Cantons de
> l'Est
> ).
> Ces quatre zones délimitent les territoires où chaque langue est la
> langue officielle, avec en plus trente communes situées près des
> frontières linguistiques où des minorités historiques bénéficient de
> facilités linguistiques
> .
>
> Les Communautés ne représentent donc pas directement l'ensemble des
> personnes parlant une des langues officielles, mais les habitants des
> différentes régions linguistiques.
>

>   Gemeenschap (België)
>   
>
> Een *gemeenschap* is een /_*persoonsgebonden*_ overheid/ in België
> .
>
> ...
>
> _*Alle Belgen*_ vallen onder een van de volgende drie
> taalgemeenschappen ...
>
> ...
>
>
> Brussel
>
> _*Brussel is officieel tweetalig*_, behorend tot zowel de Vlaamse en
> Franse gemeenschap...
>

The issue seems clear to me, especially in French.
We have 3 kinds of persons according to the official language they
speak, but we have *4 territories* one of which is bilingual in the
sense that their people can choose between two languages. "behorend tot
zowel" is ambiguous: it should made clear that it speaks of the persons
and not the territories.
But that's obvious. A territory cannot be inside 2 disjoint territories,
and that's the problem...
As OSM is obviously drawing territories, the communities do not fit in
relations, these must contain territories

As nobody cares, as I am presently involved in Brussels modifications,
and as I know boundaries well, I can do that:
- add a 4th territory aka community for Brussels.
The only problem is how to name it.
The three territories are called:

Flemish Community, Communauté flamande, Vlaamse Gemeenschap, Flämische
Gemeinschaft
French Community, Communauté française, Franse Gemeenschap, Französische
Gemeinschaft
German-speaking Community, Communauté germanophone, Duitstalige
Gemeenschap, Deutschsprachige Gemeinschaft

They should normally not be called territories, but I'm not going to
start a misunderstood revolution.
Brussels' Community? Bilingual Community?
> I know this is a complex street that starts as Pierstraat in
> Reet/Rumst in the east ,...
I know it's a complex country that starts as Pierstraat in the west, ... :-)

Cheers,
Cordialement,

André.


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[OSM-talk-be] Cartopartie Tournai

[Louis-Julien de la Bouëre]

Bonjour,

Voici un article qui résume la cartopartie de Tournai en attendant 
l'article complet : 
http://www.lavenir.net/article/detail.aspx?articleid=dmf20131112_00387940


A bientôt

--
Louis-Julien de la Bouëre
Association Tiriad
ljbou...@tiriad.org
www.tiriad.org
Portable : 06 58 79 80 56
Twitter : @assotiriad
Skype : tiloul29

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[OSM-talk-be] POI Address problem

[Marc Gemis]

Can someone please tell me how I can properly tag this POI
http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/237662466 ?

It's a shop located in the Pierstraat in Reet. The building has an
addr:street tag and is part of an associatedStreet relation. However
Nominatim (and openlinkmap) places it in the Pierstraat - Matenstraat. Do a
look-up for "Vero Golf" on osm.org

I know this is a complex street that starts as Pierstraat in Reet/Rumst in
the east, becomes Pierstraat (Reet side)-  Reetsesteenweg (Aartselaar
side), Pierstraat (both Reet & Aartselaar), Pierstraat (Aartselaar side) -
Matenstraat (Niel side) while traveling to the west.

Nevertheless the building is nearer a Pierstraat-Pierstraat part and has
all those additional tags.

So what's the use of all this additional information when the reference
implementation (=Nominatim) just ignores it?

m
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