Re: [OSM-talk-be] ScoutSign

[Sander Deryckere]

Hmm, eigenaardig, voor zover ik weet was scout gereleased voor Europa,
omdat in Europa de borden nogal uniform zijn. Ik vraag me af als ze
vergeten zijn om België bij Europa te rekenen.

Op 15 januari 2015 20:54 schreef Glenn Plas :

> Waarom zouden wij hier van wakker liggen?  De android app is in ieder
> geval "not available for my country"
>
> Apple iemand ?
>
>
> Glenn
>
>
>  15-01-15 20:33, Marc Gemis wrote:
> > 't gaat over deze "scout" http://www.telenav.com/products/scout/
> >
> > mvg
> >
> > m
> >
> > On Thu, Jan 15, 2015 at 6:47 PM, Karel Adams  > > wrote:
> >
> > 
> > Is er een verband met http://www.scouts.be/ ?
> > Zoniet, waarover gaat het eigenlijk?
> > 
>
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Re: [OSM-talk-be] ScoutSign

[Glenn Plas]

Waarom zouden wij hier van wakker liggen?  De android app is in ieder
geval "not available for my country"

Apple iemand ?


Glenn


 15-01-15 20:33, Marc Gemis wrote:
> 't gaat over deze "scout" http://www.telenav.com/products/scout/
> 
> mvg
> 
> m
> 
> On Thu, Jan 15, 2015 at 6:47 PM, Karel Adams  > wrote:
> 
> 
> Is er een verband met http://www.scouts.be/ ?
> Zoniet, waarover gaat het eigenlijk?
> 

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Re: [OSM-talk-be] ScoutSign

[Marc Gemis]

't gaat over deze "scout" http://www.telenav.com/products/scout/

mvg

m

On Thu, Jan 15, 2015 at 6:47 PM, Karel Adams  wrote:

>  
> Is er een verband met http://www.scouts.be/ ?
> Zoniet, waarover gaat het eigenlijk?
> 
>
>
> On 15-01-15 17:09, Marc Gemis wrote:
>
>  Hallo,
>
>  Scout has released a service in which they publish the traffic signs that
> are recognized by their navigation system. A presentation [1] was given
> during SOTM 2014.
>
> There is a JOSM plugin that allows one to access this service. It comes
> down to a number of traffic signs that are shown in your editor.
> Of course there is not a lot of data yet in Belgium. However, someone
> followed the Afrikalaan in Gent. Near the Lubeckstraat there are 2 traffic
> signs recognized. Maxspeed = 70. The tagging in OSM now states maxspeed =50.
>
>  Since I'm not familiar with the area, I'm not going to retag the road,
> but maybe someone from Gent could take a look ?
>
>  Furthermore they are working on integration of Mapillary photo's in
> their service.
>
>  Of course we have the traffic sign database in Flanders, but I've read
> somewhere that it is getting out of date quickly, as nobody seems
> interested to maintain it.
>
>  regards
>
>  m
>
>  [1] http://vimeo.com/album/3134207/video/115313286
>
>
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Re: [OSM-talk-be] ScoutSign

[Jo]

Scouting betekent verkennen in het Engels.

Maar het heeft niets met onze scouts te maken.

Er is dus blijkbaar een dienst op het internet die tracht om verkeerborden
te herkennen op foto's. Alleen hebben wij in België nog niet veel zulke
foto's. Ze willen dat nu ook gaan toepassen op foto's van mapillary en daar
zouden we er relatief vlot wel veel van kunnen hebben, als dat eenmaal
aanslaat.

Jo

2015-01-15 18:47 GMT+01:00 Karel Adams :

>  
> Is er een verband met http://www.scouts.be/ ?
> Zoniet, waarover gaat het eigenlijk?
> 
>
>
> On 15-01-15 17:09, Marc Gemis wrote:
>
>  Hallo,
>
>  Scout has released a service in which they publish the traffic signs that
> are recognized by their navigation system. A presentation [1] was given
> during SOTM 2014.
>
> There is a JOSM plugin that allows one to access this service. It comes
> down to a number of traffic signs that are shown in your editor.
> Of course there is not a lot of data yet in Belgium. However, someone
> followed the Afrikalaan in Gent. Near the Lubeckstraat there are 2 traffic
> signs recognized. Maxspeed = 70. The tagging in OSM now states maxspeed =50.
>
>  Since I'm not familiar with the area, I'm not going to retag the road,
> but maybe someone from Gent could take a look ?
>
>  Furthermore they are working on integration of Mapillary photo's in
> their service.
>
>  Of course we have the traffic sign database in Flanders, but I've read
> somewhere that it is getting out of date quickly, as nobody seems
> interested to maintain it.
>
>  regards
>
>  m
>
>  [1] http://vimeo.com/album/3134207/video/115313286
>
>
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Re: [OSM-talk-be] ScoutSign

[Karel Adams]

Is er een verband met http://www.scouts.be/ ?
Zoniet, waarover gaat het eigenlijk?


On 15-01-15 17:09, Marc Gemis wrote:

Hallo,

Scout has released a service in which they publish the traffic signs 
that are recognized by their navigation system. A presentation [1] was 
given during SOTM 2014.


There is a JOSM plugin that allows one to access this service. It 
comes down to a number of traffic signs that are shown in your editor.
Of course there is not a lot of data yet in Belgium. However, someone 
followed the Afrikalaan in Gent. Near the Lubeckstraat there are 2 
traffic signs recognized. Maxspeed = 70. The tagging in OSM now states 
maxspeed =50.


Since I'm not familiar with the area, I'm not going to retag the road, 
but maybe someone from Gent could take a look ?


Furthermore they are working on integration of Mapillary photo's in 
their service.


Of course we have the traffic sign database in Flanders, but I've read 
somewhere that it is getting out of date quickly, as nobody seems 
interested to maintain it.


regards

m

[1] http://vimeo.com/album/3134207/video/115313286


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Re: [OSM-talk-be] ScoutSign

[Marc Gemis]

I could not check the distance, but according to the picture, it is 70.

regards

m.

On Thu, Jan 15, 2015 at 6:41 PM, Sander Deryckere 
wrote:

> Please note, when mapping with the aid of scout, that the reported
> positions are often shifted a significant distance (malenki reported on
> average 20m), and that the OCR might fail (reporting 70 when it should be
> 90 f.e.)
>
> See the diary entry malenki wrote about it:
> http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/malenki/diary/28357
>
> Regards,
> Sander
>
> 2015-01-15 18:09 GMT+01:00 Marc Gemis :
>
>> Hallo,
>>
>> Scout has released a service in which they publish the traffic signs that
>> are recognized by their navigation system. A presentation [1] was given
>> during SOTM 2014.
>>
>> There is a JOSM plugin that allows one to access this service. It comes
>> down to a number of traffic signs that are shown in your editor.
>> Of course there is not a lot of data yet in Belgium. However, someone
>> followed the Afrikalaan in Gent. Near the Lubeckstraat there are 2 traffic
>> signs recognized. Maxspeed = 70. The tagging in OSM now states maxspeed =50.
>>
>> Since I'm not familiar with the area, I'm not going to retag the road,
>> but maybe someone from Gent could take a look ?
>>
>> Furthermore they are working on integration of Mapillary photo's in their
>> service.
>>
>> Of course we have the traffic sign database in Flanders, but I've read
>> somewhere that it is getting out of date quickly, as nobody seems
>> interested to maintain it.
>>
>> regards
>>
>> m
>>
>> [1] http://vimeo.com/album/3134207/video/115313286
>>
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Re: [OSM-talk-be] ScoutSign

[Sander Deryckere]

Please note, when mapping with the aid of scout, that the reported
positions are often shifted a significant distance (malenki reported on
average 20m), and that the OCR might fail (reporting 70 when it should be
90 f.e.)

See the diary entry malenki wrote about it:
http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/malenki/diary/28357

Regards,
Sander

2015-01-15 18:09 GMT+01:00 Marc Gemis :

> Hallo,
>
> Scout has released a service in which they publish the traffic signs that
> are recognized by their navigation system. A presentation [1] was given
> during SOTM 2014.
>
> There is a JOSM plugin that allows one to access this service. It comes
> down to a number of traffic signs that are shown in your editor.
> Of course there is not a lot of data yet in Belgium. However, someone
> followed the Afrikalaan in Gent. Near the Lubeckstraat there are 2 traffic
> signs recognized. Maxspeed = 70. The tagging in OSM now states maxspeed =50.
>
> Since I'm not familiar with the area, I'm not going to retag the road, but
> maybe someone from Gent could take a look ?
>
> Furthermore they are working on integration of Mapillary photo's in their
> service.
>
> Of course we have the traffic sign database in Flanders, but I've read
> somewhere that it is getting out of date quickly, as nobody seems
> interested to maintain it.
>
> regards
>
> m
>
> [1] http://vimeo.com/album/3134207/video/115313286
>
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[OSM-talk-be] ScoutSign

[Marc Gemis]

Hallo,

Scout has released a service in which they publish the traffic signs that
are recognized by their navigation system. A presentation [1] was given
during SOTM 2014.

There is a JOSM plugin that allows one to access this service. It comes
down to a number of traffic signs that are shown in your editor.
Of course there is not a lot of data yet in Belgium. However, someone
followed the Afrikalaan in Gent. Near the Lubeckstraat there are 2 traffic
signs recognized. Maxspeed = 70. The tagging in OSM now states maxspeed =50.

Since I'm not familiar with the area, I'm not going to retag the road, but
maybe someone from Gent could take a look ?

Furthermore they are working on integration of Mapillary photo's in their
service.

Of course we have the traffic sign database in Flanders, but I've read
somewhere that it is getting out of date quickly, as nobody seems
interested to maintain it.

regards

m

[1] http://vimeo.com/album/3134207/video/115313286
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Re: [OSM-talk-be] Mapping public transport in Belgium

[Jo]

Het werkt nu ook in het Nederlands:

http://www.overpass-api.de/api/sketch-line?ref=92&network=DLOV&style=DeLijn

et en français:

http://www.overpass-api.de/api/sketch-line?ref=18&network=TECB&style=TEC

Maar er blijven nog wat problemen, als je van de ene naar de andere wilt
doorklikken en ook voor lijnen met lage nummers waarvan er in elke stad wel
een paar zijn en die dus meermaals in een provincie/entiteit van De Lijn
voorkomen.

Mais il y a encore de problèmes si on veut sauter d'une ligne à l'autre et
aussi pour les lignes avec des identifiants qui sont utilisés plusiers fois
dans différentes villes dans la même province/entité du TEC.

Jo

2015-01-15 14:09 GMT+01:00 Jo :

> Thank you Pieter!
>
> People sometimes ask me: why add all these route relations to
> Openstreetmap, when De Lijn already has them as shape files?
>
> For one thing, De Lijn cannot share them with us.
>
> A good example is the following:
>
>
> http://www.overpass-api.de/api/sketch-line?ref=91&network=DLOV&style=wuppertal
>
> If you click through to one of the other lines, change the url so it has
> &style=wuppertal once again at the end. I asked Roland if it wouldn't be
> possible to keep using the same style, when clicking through.
>
> Another example is a map I rendered where I'm combining the PT network
> (pink on the background), the walking nodes network (orange) and the route
> I wanted to talk about:
>
> https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/a2/Pad_van_Ad_op_OSM.png
>
> Only, say 10 years ago, creating such a map would have been an impossible
> endeavour. It's important for the explanation on this site:
>
> https://en.wikivoyage.org/wiki/Ad%27s_Path
>
> To be able to show where the bus stops are and the walking node numbers
> are used in the directions, but not exactly used the way they were meant to
> be used... only to help point people in the right direction, instead of
> following them from node to node.
>
> Jo
>
>
>
> 2015-01-14 10:58 GMT+01:00 Pieter Colpaert :
>
>>  Hey Jo,
>>
>> I've re-blogged your post into a post within the iRail community:
>> https://hello.irail.be/2015/01/14/mapping-public-transport-in-belgium/
>>
>> And tweeted it: https://twitter.com/iRail/status/555302292451520512
>>
>> Kind regards,
>>
>> Pieter
>>
>>
>>
>> On 2015-01-14 10:33, Jo wrote:
>>
>>Hallo,
>>
>>  Ik heb een artikeltje geschreven over hoe we public transport hier
>> mappen. Een aantal zaken heb ik geautomatiseerd, om het apenwerk er zoveel
>> mogelijk uit te halen en om alles actueel te houden. Een aantal dingen
>> wijkt mogelijk af van wat er op de wiki te vinden is en er staat vermeld,
>> hoe dat zo gekomen is.
>>
>>  De bedoeling is dat iedereen die er interesse in heeft, mee zijn
>> schouders onder het in kaart brengen van de reiswegen zou zetten.
>>
>> http://osm.be/nl/content/mapping-public-transport-belgium
>>
>>  Salut,
>>
>>  J'ai rédigé un article pour expliquer comment le transport en commun est
>> cartographié chez nous. J'ai automatisé la création des routes en grande
>> partie et je travaille sur un système pour tenir le tout actualisé. Je
>> décris également où l'on dévie de ce qui est décrit sur le wiki et d'où ça
>> vient.
>>
>>  C'est également un appel aux mappeurs pour aider avec la cartographie
>> des itinéraires.
>>
>>  Il y aura surement des erreurs. Merci si vous pouvez me faire parvenir
>> des améliorations/corrections.
>>
>> http://osm.be/fr/content/mapping-public-transport-belgium
>>
>>  Hi,
>>
>> I've created an article to describe how public transport is mapped in
>> Belgium. I'm in the process of automating the creation of the routes as
>> much as possible and on a way to keep it all up-to-date. I also describe in
>> what ways we deviate from the wiki and why this happened.
>>
>>  The main motiviation to write this article is to find mappers who'd be
>> willing to help out with the creation/updating of the itineraries.
>>
>> http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/Polyglot/diary/28401
>>
>>
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>>
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Re: [OSM-talk-be] Mapping public transport in Belgium

[Jo]

Thank you Pieter!

People sometimes ask me: why add all these route relations to
Openstreetmap, when De Lijn already has them as shape files?

For one thing, De Lijn cannot share them with us.

A good example is the following:

http://www.overpass-api.de/api/sketch-line?ref=91&network=DLOV&style=wuppertal

If you click through to one of the other lines, change the url so it has
&style=wuppertal once again at the end. I asked Roland if it wouldn't be
possible to keep using the same style, when clicking through.

Another example is a map I rendered where I'm combining the PT network
(pink on the background), the walking nodes network (orange) and the route
I wanted to talk about:

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/a2/Pad_van_Ad_op_OSM.png

Only, say 10 years ago, creating such a map would have been an impossible
endeavour. It's important for the explanation on this site:

https://en.wikivoyage.org/wiki/Ad%27s_Path

To be able to show where the bus stops are and the walking node numbers are
used in the directions, but not exactly used the way they were meant to be
used... only to help point people in the right direction, instead of
following them from node to node.

Jo



2015-01-14 10:58 GMT+01:00 Pieter Colpaert :

>  Hey Jo,
>
> I've re-blogged your post into a post within the iRail community:
> https://hello.irail.be/2015/01/14/mapping-public-transport-in-belgium/
>
> And tweeted it: https://twitter.com/iRail/status/555302292451520512
>
> Kind regards,
>
> Pieter
>
>
>
> On 2015-01-14 10:33, Jo wrote:
>
>Hallo,
>
>  Ik heb een artikeltje geschreven over hoe we public transport hier
> mappen. Een aantal zaken heb ik geautomatiseerd, om het apenwerk er zoveel
> mogelijk uit te halen en om alles actueel te houden. Een aantal dingen
> wijkt mogelijk af van wat er op de wiki te vinden is en er staat vermeld,
> hoe dat zo gekomen is.
>
>  De bedoeling is dat iedereen die er interesse in heeft, mee zijn
> schouders onder het in kaart brengen van de reiswegen zou zetten.
>
> http://osm.be/nl/content/mapping-public-transport-belgium
>
>  Salut,
>
>  J'ai rédigé un article pour expliquer comment le transport en commun est
> cartographié chez nous. J'ai automatisé la création des routes en grande
> partie et je travaille sur un système pour tenir le tout actualisé. Je
> décris également où l'on dévie de ce qui est décrit sur le wiki et d'où ça
> vient.
>
>  C'est également un appel aux mappeurs pour aider avec la cartographie
> des itinéraires.
>
>  Il y aura surement des erreurs. Merci si vous pouvez me faire parvenir
> des améliorations/corrections.
>
> http://osm.be/fr/content/mapping-public-transport-belgium
>
>  Hi,
>
> I've created an article to describe how public transport is mapped in
> Belgium. I'm in the process of automating the creation of the routes as
> much as possible and on a way to keep it all up-to-date. I also describe in
> what ways we deviate from the wiki and why this happened.
>
>  The main motiviation to write this article is to find mappers who'd be
> willing to help out with the creation/updating of the itineraries.
>
> http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/Polyglot/diary/28401
>
>
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>
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>
> Open Transport Working Group OKFNhttp://transport.okfn.org
>
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Re: [OSM-talk-be] It was only a matter of time ...

[Jo]

2015-01-14 21:22 GMT+01:00 Glenn Plas :

>
> > Perhaps I should try it out, I only tried out what it produces, so
> it's
> > frustrating.  I have the feeling from looking at the data that it
> > doesn't take the existing data into account, when someone marks a
> > speed_camera, it's usually not connected to the way, but right on
> top of
> > it however (not taking into account the missing relations that
> should be
> > created for enforcements).
> >
> >
> > I don't think speed_cams should be nodes on the way. They should be next
> > to the way at the exact position where they are. Sometimes to the right,
> > sometimes to the left  one the 'middenberm'.
>
> Indeed, but ID users want them on the road, that is the intention anyway
> looking at the data.  A speedcamera isn't any good without the
> enforcement relation anyways.
>

I've been ranting about this on this ML a few months ago. Back then I also
located each and every one of them (with Overpass API) and dragged them off
the highways. I think it was OsmAnd that expected them as nodes on the way,
but that has since then been resolved on their side.

>
> >
> > > What happens after that, is entirely up to us. Personally, I'm not
> > > actively monitoring the edits in my neighbourhood. Maybe I should,
> but
> > > I'm already spending too much time on OSM, as it is.
> >
> > It's quite easy actually, I use an RSS feed to warn me about it. Just
> > mark a bounding box:
> >
> > http://zverik.osm.rambler.ru/whodidit/
> >
> > My bounding box would comprise all of Belgium...
>
> You can do that but split it up in area's, it would probably be 10 RSS
> feeds to capture belgium.  I have 3 area's  I monitor.
>

I don't know when I'd have time to check, and especially respond to them. I
think I'll have to choose my 'battles' and I'm concentrating on keeping the
route relations correct and up-to-date. That's something which can be
achieved nation wide, I think. Once I start doing the same for cycle and
walking routes, it should highlight problems caused by newly arriving
mappers at that level. Hopefully it will also lead to finding people with
an interest in these various route relations and with a willingness to help
maintain them.

The history viewer is great. Thanks for letting me know about it. It will
come in handy, I'm sure.
I looked at an edit of myself, realigning the entire bus station of
Aarschot on a grid, (which is probably exaggerated, but it makes the
rendering look really nice, while stil adhering to what's actually present).
Unfortunately I can't zoom in far enough for the differences to show up in
a meaningful way.

Jo
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