Re: [OSM-talk-be] Import of 2000 DAE in Belgium (Defibrillators / > Défibrillateurs)

[Marc Gemis]

Je mag natuurlijk altijd zelf de defribilator mappen in OSM en je foto
prive houden.
Zie  http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:emergency%3Ddefibrillator
voor de tagging.

mvg

m

2016-06-06 9:28 GMT+02:00 Philippe Casteleyn :
> Eindelijk iemand die niet al een wildeman mapt zodra hij gegevens tegenkomt.
>
> Ik heb gisteren een defibrillator tegengekomen in Steenokkerzeel.
> http://www.mapillary.com/map/im/7RmuSqkA2GO9obPesXY8GA/photo
>
> Ik ben vergeten een goede foto te maken.   Mapillary foto's duren immers 12
> seconden om te laden en de kwaliteit is slecht. Dat is wel extra werk.
> Zou zoiets niet in Flickr kunnen getagd worden ?
> Ik heb eigenlijk zonder ze te willen verzamelen al veel defibrillatoren in
> Mapillary gefotografeerd.
> In de toekomst zullen we Mapillary kunnen trainen om ze te herkennen.
>
> De DAE in het Pachecoinstituut Grootgodshuisstraat 7A, 1000 Brussel  staat
> binnen naast het onthaal en die heb ik dan maar niet gefotografeerd.   Ik
> had geen zin om een hele uitleg te doen.
>
> Ph Casteleyn
> Dahliastraat 16
> 2800 Mechelen
> animals.slippers.loaders
> gsm 0486 516261
> Ctrl+v
>
>
>
>
> ___
> Talk-be mailing list
> Talk-be@openstreetmap.org
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be
>

___
Talk-be mailing list
Talk-be@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be

[OSM-talk-be] Import of 2000 DAE in Belgium (Defibrillators / > Défibrillateurs)

[Philippe Casteleyn]

Eindelijk iemand die niet al een wildeman mapt zodra hij gegevens tegenkomt.
Ik heb gisteren een defibrillator tegengekomen in 
Steenokkerzeel.http://www.mapillary.com/map/im/7RmuSqkA2GO9obPesXY8GA/photo

Ik ben vergeten een goede foto te maken.   Mapillary foto's duren immers 12 
seconden om te laden en de kwaliteit is slecht. Dat is wel extra werk.   
Zou zoiets niet in Flickr kunnen getagd worden ? Ik heb eigenlijk zonder ze te 
willen verzamelen al veel defibrillatoren in Mapillary gefotografeerd.In de 
toekomst zullen we Mapillary kunnen trainen om ze te herkennen.
De DAE in het Pachecoinstituut Grootgodshuisstraat 7A, 1000 Brussel  staat 
binnen naast het onthaal en die heb ik dan maar niet gefotografeerd.   Ik had 
geen zin om een hele uitleg te doen. 
Ph Casteleyn 
Dahliastraat 16

2800 Mechelen
animals.slippers.loaders

gsm 0486 516261
Ctrl+v


  ___
Talk-be mailing list
Talk-be@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be

Re: [OSM-talk-be] Import of 2000 DAE in Belgium (Defibrillators / Défibrillateurs)

[Jo]

Hi Glenn,

Many thanks for your efforts! I think this is somewhat usable to compare
with if one finds a defibrillator during one's surveys, or if you happen to
see one on Mapillary imagery.
But you're right, it's definitely not material that can be uploaded without
some considerable extra effort.

Jo

2016-06-05 23:19 GMT+02:00 Glenn Plas :

> Hi,
>
>
> I've been playing with the data and checking this DAE/EAD data and it's
> not so easy after all.  There are several shortcomings in this dataset,
> I'll list them up.  But in general, it's not wel structured and it's
> mixed languages as well. See url [3] for the files.
>
> I was going to make an attempt, but it's a lot of work in the first
> place on this source data which really sucks quality wise:
>
> - Names are often in capitals. (and so are plenty of other fields)
> - Counting the number of distinct provinces, we have more than fifty
> - It's not limited to Belgium,  I had to clean out FR/NL/AF(?) countries
> - There is verbose information, like floors and location descriptions
> who are a bit hard to structure, the language is mixed, so I tried
> searching for different typical words in an attempt to split it up into
> :fr and :nl location descriptions
> - addressing scheme is not consistent, sometimes numbers before streets.
>  It's also in 1 value field, so splitting up the numbers from the
> streetinfo willl take some more serious regex-work/edit.
> - Some fields are cutoff :
>   
>   
> - 4 identical duplicate entries
> - 125 non-identical duplicate entries , different housenumbers/wrong
> streetnames too.
>
> I had to juggle values between key's as well to make it a bit more
> consistent, but it's just a best effort.  It's full of weird values like
> : level=ziekenwagen of level=garage (probably mean -1), level=Paal
> Also,  Rez de chaussée in all it's variants: rez, Rdc, Rez, Etc... and
> in dutch: glvl, GV.  So this list contains mobile assets as well!
>
> And still there is interesting stuff in there like the location
> (indoor/outdoor), access (private/public) and what's also nice, opening
> hours if available.
>
> But last, and not least:
>
>  - The GPS coordinate accuracy is really terrible, I did some random
> checks of places I know and some of the locations are in the middle of
> crossroads or contain an address + number that is way vs. using OSM
> addresses (vs. raw CRAB too).   In fact, I think I only found 1 that I
> believe is about correct (Nekkerhal Mechelen) , only 1 of 3 in that area
> in fact.
>
> So, We can't really trust this data... We can't import this.  At best we
> could use it to compair OSM data against, just to get an idea.  Or you
> could use it to compare with what you find in the field.
>
> My work files can be downloaded using the links below [3]. You can open
> it up in JOSM. So You can check for yourself.  Please don't force-upload
> this.
>
> To get the existing defibrillators use this overpass query [1] , there
> are ways and nodes present containing the tag. But the emergency key on
> a  way's is an error. [2]
>
> Feel free to check out how far I got in trying to get some structure
> here [3]
>
> Glenn
>
> [1] http://overpass-turbo.eu/s/gDA
> [2] http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:emergency%3Ddefibrillator
> [3] http://aed.byteless.net/
>
>
> ___
> Talk-be mailing list
> Talk-be@openstreetmap.org
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be
>
___
Talk-be mailing list
Talk-be@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be

Re: [OSM-talk-be] Import of 2000 DAE in Belgium (Defibrillators / Défibrillateurs)

[Glenn Plas]

Hi,


I've been playing with the data and checking this DAE/EAD data and it's
not so easy after all.  There are several shortcomings in this dataset,
I'll list them up.  But in general, it's not wel structured and it's
mixed languages as well. See url [3] for the files.

I was going to make an attempt, but it's a lot of work in the first
place on this source data which really sucks quality wise:

- Names are often in capitals. (and so are plenty of other fields)
- Counting the number of distinct provinces, we have more than fifty
- It's not limited to Belgium,  I had to clean out FR/NL/AF(?) countries
- There is verbose information, like floors and location descriptions
who are a bit hard to structure, the language is mixed, so I tried
searching for different typical words in an attempt to split it up into
:fr and :nl location descriptions
- addressing scheme is not consistent, sometimes numbers before streets.
 It's also in 1 value field, so splitting up the numbers from the
streetinfo willl take some more serious regex-work/edit.
- Some fields are cutoff :
  
  
- 4 identical duplicate entries
- 125 non-identical duplicate entries , different housenumbers/wrong
streetnames too.

I had to juggle values between key's as well to make it a bit more
consistent, but it's just a best effort.  It's full of weird values like
: level=ziekenwagen of level=garage (probably mean -1), level=Paal
Also,  Rez de chaussée in all it's variants: rez, Rdc, Rez, Etc... and
in dutch: glvl, GV.  So this list contains mobile assets as well!

And still there is interesting stuff in there like the location
(indoor/outdoor), access (private/public) and what's also nice, opening
hours if available.

But last, and not least:

 - The GPS coordinate accuracy is really terrible, I did some random
checks of places I know and some of the locations are in the middle of
crossroads or contain an address + number that is way vs. using OSM
addresses (vs. raw CRAB too).   In fact, I think I only found 1 that I
believe is about correct (Nekkerhal Mechelen) , only 1 of 3 in that area
in fact.

So, We can't really trust this data... We can't import this.  At best we
could use it to compair OSM data against, just to get an idea.  Or you
could use it to compare with what you find in the field.

My work files can be downloaded using the links below [3]. You can open
it up in JOSM. So You can check for yourself.  Please don't force-upload
this.

To get the existing defibrillators use this overpass query [1] , there
are ways and nodes present containing the tag. But the emergency key on
a  way's is an error. [2]

Feel free to check out how far I got in trying to get some structure
here [3]

Glenn

[1] http://overpass-turbo.eu/s/gDA
[2] http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:emergency%3Ddefibrillator
[3] http://aed.byteless.net/


___
Talk-be mailing list
Talk-be@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be

Re: [OSM-talk-be] Import of 2000 DAE in Belgium (Defibrillators / Défibrillateurs)

[Marc Gemis]

If you follow the purist, you would never do any armchair mapping at
all. Even tracing from aerial imagery should only be done after
visiting the area.  Some will even avoid data from websites of shops.
(-- I do not belong to that group --)

More people say only use aerial imagery + surveyed data and perhaps Mapillary.

But when you take a file from somewhere, convert it and drop the data
into OSM, that's an import. And for small things like AEDs you won't
be able to see whether they are correctly positioned on aerial
imagery.
Someone did something similar last year by placing bicycle repair
stands (on a wolrd-wide basis). Lot's of discussion.

But like I said, you might get away with it.

regards

m

On Thu, Jun 2, 2016 at 8:43 PM, Glenn Plas  wrote:
> On 02-06-16 19:25, Marc Gemis wrote:
>> On Wed, Jun 1, 2016 at 3:48 PM, Glenn Plas  wrote:
>>> If somebody believes we should walk the 'import data scenario case'
>>> instead, it will probably take much much longer to complete it.  But I
>>> don't see why we should given the nature of this upload.
>>
>> Any data from an external source, which is not verified by a local
>> mapper, has to follow the import guidelines. Of course you can always
>> try to to stay under the radar :-) So I won't mention this one on the
>> weeklyOSM (unlike the GR Flanders data)
>
> I know you are right, That would actually apply to plenty of edits
> though. (armchairs in particular).
>
> btw, isn't all data that isn't in OSM already external by nature ?
>
> *confused* greetings ;-)
>
> Glenn
>
> ___
> Talk-be mailing list
> Talk-be@openstreetmap.org
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be

___
Talk-be mailing list
Talk-be@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be

Re: [OSM-talk-be] Import of 2000 DAE in Belgium (Defibrillators / Défibrillateurs)

[Glenn Plas]

Hi,

It would be a fairly trivial task, don't think we need import approval
from upstream for a few thousand single nodes.  It would be a bit like
importing VELO nodes (bike sharing).  The license of this DAE data is open.

I've made a quality assessment tool to compair VELO nodes from VELO
website (json call/feed) to their OSM counterparts to help reposition
nodes and assess the quality.  From time to time I verify them.  The
tool creates an OSM changefile in case some are missing which you can
open in JOSM and upload.

But aftercare is equally important, so from time to time, I compair this
list to OSM.  It will measure distances, tag differences etc. and notify
when they are seperated too much or where key/values deviate.

Since it's json based and the DAE list isn't (csv) I could modify the
code to support csv data, make it a bit more general.  It uses OverPass
API to compair.  It works with existing nodes.

I write command line tools , hence I usually don't release these as they
aren't really usefull unless you are a command line junkie like myself.
 But I can open this up at will.

VELO is a bit different than this as they -so far- use structured naming
schema which we reference in OSM and this makes it easy to diff the data.

I probably need to change / remove / adapt a few checks but it would
take only a few hours to do so.

in short: I can do this rather quickly.

If somebody believes we should walk the 'import data scenario case'
instead, it will probably take much much longer to complete it.  But I
don't see why we should given the nature of this upload.

Hope this helps,

Glenn



On 01-06-16 11:59, Bruno Veyckemans wrote:
> [EN]
> Hello,
> 
> The "Ligue Cardiologique Belge / Belgische Cardiologische Liga" just
> issued a set of 2000 defibrillators (DAE) in Belgium in the Brussels
> open datastore
> http://opendatastore.brussels/en/organization/liguecardioliga (csv or xls)
> 
> It would be great to import them in OSM... There are now only 119 DAE
> known by OSM for the whole country.
> 
> It seems fairly easy (only nodes, no ways) but I don't know how to do
> it... What's the best option to merge and import the 119 existing DAE
> and the 2000 DAE from the Ligue ?
> 
> I suppose it has already been done for other data... If you can teach me
> or help me to do it, we could add the missing DAE and really help people
> looking for a defibrillator in case of emergency.
> 
> If it works, the next step will be to the same for bpost's red mailboxes
> (amenity=post_box). I know bpost is ready to import its data to OSM
> (with collection times and their internal id) but need help to merge it
> with the existing mailboxes.
> 
> [FR]
> Bonjour,
> La Ligue Cardiologique Belge vient de publier sa liste de 2000
> défibrillateurs (DAE) en Belgique via l'Open Data store de la Région
> bruxelloise ici:
> http://opendatastore.brussels/en/organization/liguecardioliga (csv ou xls)
> 
> Ce serait super de pouvoir les importer dans OSM... qui ne connaît pour
> l'instant que 119 DAE pour toute la Belgique (recherche via
> http://overpass-turbo.eu/).
> 
> Cela semble assez facile vu que ce ne sont que des points (nodes), mais
> je ne sais pas trop comment m'y prendre. Quelle est la meilleure option
> pour fusionner les 119 DAE existants avec ces 2000 là ? J'imagine que ça
> a déjà été fait avec d'autres données... Si vous pouviez m'aider à le
> faire, ce serait top et je pense qu'on pourrait faire quelque chose de
> très utile pour aiguiller les gens vers le défibrillateur le plus proche
> en cas d'urgence. Et ce sera moins décourageant de mettre à jour une
> liste de 2000 DAE que la liste actuelle, très peu fournie.
> 
> Par ailleurs, si ça fonctionne, le travail suivant sera de réaliser un
> import similaire avec les boîtes postales rouges de bpost... Je sais
> qu'ils sont d'accord pour importer leurs données sur OSM, avec heures de
> levée et les id internes de leurs boîtes, ce qui permettra une mise à
> jour aisée. Mais il leur manque le savoir-faire pour réaliser
> l'opération proprement sur OSM (essentiellement la gestion des boîtes
> déjà encodées).
> 
> Merci !
> Bruno
> 
> 
> ___
> Talk-be mailing list
> Talk-be@openstreetmap.org
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be
> 


___
Talk-be mailing list
Talk-be@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be

[OSM-talk-be] Import of 2000 DAE in Belgium (Defibrillators / Défibrillateurs)

[Bruno Veyckemans]

[EN]
Hello,

The "Ligue Cardiologique Belge / Belgische Cardiologische Liga" just issued
a set of 2000 defibrillators (DAE) in Belgium in the Brussels open datastore
http://opendatastore.brussels/en/organization/liguecardioliga (csv or xls)

It would be great to import them in OSM... There are now only 119 DAE known
by OSM for the whole country.

It seems fairly easy (only nodes, no ways) but I don't know how to do it...
What's the best option to merge and import the 119 existing DAE and the
2000 DAE from the Ligue ?

I suppose it has already been done for other data... If you can teach me or
help me to do it, we could add the missing DAE and really help people
looking for a defibrillator in case of emergency.

If it works, the next step will be to the same for bpost's red mailboxes
(amenity=post_box). I know bpost is ready to import its data to OSM (with
collection times and their internal id) but need help to merge it with the
existing mailboxes.

[FR]
Bonjour,
La Ligue Cardiologique Belge vient de publier sa liste de 2000
défibrillateurs (DAE) en Belgique via l'Open Data store de la Région
bruxelloise ici:
http://opendatastore.brussels/en/organization/liguecardioliga (csv ou xls)

Ce serait super de pouvoir les importer dans OSM... qui ne connaît pour
l'instant que 119 DAE pour toute la Belgique (recherche via
http://overpass-turbo.eu/).

Cela semble assez facile vu que ce ne sont que des points (nodes), mais je
ne sais pas trop comment m'y prendre. Quelle est la meilleure option pour
fusionner les 119 DAE existants avec ces 2000 là ? J'imagine que ça a déjà
été fait avec d'autres données... Si vous pouviez m'aider à le faire, ce
serait top et je pense qu'on pourrait faire quelque chose de très utile
pour aiguiller les gens vers le défibrillateur le plus proche en cas
d'urgence. Et ce sera moins décourageant de mettre à jour une liste de 2000
DAE que la liste actuelle, très peu fournie.

Par ailleurs, si ça fonctionne, le travail suivant sera de réaliser un
import similaire avec les boîtes postales rouges de bpost... Je sais qu'ils
sont d'accord pour importer leurs données sur OSM, avec heures de levée et
les id internes de leurs boîtes, ce qui permettra une mise à jour aisée.
Mais il leur manque le savoir-faire pour réaliser l'opération proprement
sur OSM (essentiellement la gestion des boîtes déjà encodées).

Merci !
Bruno
___
Talk-be mailing list
Talk-be@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be