Re: [OSM-talk-be] Multilingual names

[Glenn Plas]

Hi Gerard,

On 22-04-17 10:24, Gerard Vanderveken wrote:
> The strreets of Sint-Genesius-Rode that pop-up in your list, eg 23095320
> Schildknaaplaan, are actually the right ones.
> As they are in the Flemisch region, their names have to start with the
> nl part.
> This is intented and not an error.

The tool just flags, it doesn't fix... If you run it on flanders, it
will work and show output , but it assumes you're doing a
multi-linguistic area only, it works on whatever you export in OSM.
Hence, experienced mappers only.. and BXL only tool. (not facilities,
there the logic is reversed as you mention correctly).  This is a lot
more difficult to implement. (see border remark below)

> 
> Many others in Sint-Genesius-Rode are wrongly named as eg Avenue du Golf
> - Golflaan id 291970858

Tons of those fixed and still left to fix..you really have to watch out,
at the bottom of the readme:

Rue de la Cambre - Terkamerenstraat vs. Rue de la Cambre - Ter Kamerenstraat
Avenue de la Chevalerie - Ridderschaplaan vs. Avenue de la Chevalerie -
Ridderschapslaan
Chaussée de Louvain - Leuvensesteenweg vs. Chaussée de Louvain -
Leuvense Steenweg
Avenue du Val d'Or - Guldendallaan vs. Avenue du Val d'Or - Gouddallaan

It all depends on what municipality you are working on, those are very
tricky as there are 3 different names for a single street running
through different municipalities.

I don't even think there is a way to fix for example  'Rue de la Grosse
Tour - Wollendriestorenstraat' unless you split the road, map it as
single lane and name both sides differently, the current tagging scheme
is not applicable unfortunately


> The ones that pop up in the list with a single nl name are also correct,
> because they are located in Hoeilaart.

I really did a rough export of zonien area to create some output, but
you have the right attitude in being critical.  I thought about
incorporating the borders into the tool, but those can be wrong, and
some are, which will generate false readings.  I don't want to assume
the mapper is stupid and do the thinking for him.

https://github.com/gplv2/urbis-validate/blob/master/README.md

> Saw someone called Jakka, changing names
> 
> in the wrong direction.
> Have sent him a PM.

He's a regular mapper, mistakes happen all the time.  Gotta fix it, too
bad he's swimming upstream on this one.

Tx for the feedback, It might end up as validation code :)


Glenn

> 
> Regards,
> Gerard
> 
> Glenn Plas wrote:
>> Since I could not resist fixing this...
>>
>>   
>>> As for the French-Dutch. I think I added a name once to a path in
>>> Zonienwoud, in the other order. Can't find it right now. Perhaps
>>> someone corrected my vandalism :-)
>>> 
>>
>> I fixed the problem in de tool and ran analysis on the export, I
>> discovered 2 small issues with moterway_junction having a name instead
>> of destination, after fixing those 2 I managed to fully parse the results,
>>
>> The remarks of Gerard also pop up albeit a bit cryptic (saying it's
>> missing the names), that's because it doesn't know where the borders are
>> of the multi-linguistic zones.  The tool is not for beginners but
>> seasoned mappers who want enhanced validation outside of JOSM
>>
>> here is a sample of those validations.  Some streets are very
>> difficult(like Chaussée de Waterloo for example) , the readme of the
>> tool talks in depth about those problems, read it first if you want to fix:
>>
>>
>>   
>>> [id:15804224] Difference between name:fr + name:nl vs. the name: 'Drève 
>>> Pittoresque - Schilderachtigedreef' <> 'Drève Pittoresque - Schilderachtige 
>>> dreef'
>>> [id:23095320] Difference between name:fr + name:nl vs. the name: 'Avenue de 
>>> l'Écuyer - Schildknaaplaan' <> 'Schildknaaplaan - Avenue de l'Écuyer'
>>> [id:23095323] Difference between name:fr + name:nl vs. the name: 'Avenue du 
>>> Faucon - Valkenlaan' <> 'Valkenlaan - Avenue du Faucon'
>>> [id:23104866] Difference between name:fr + name:nl vs. the name: 'Avenue 
>>> des Érables - Ahornlaan' <> 'Ahornlaan - Avenue des Érables'
>>> [id:23104868] Difference between name:fr + name:nl vs. the name: 'Avenue 
>>> des Érables - Ahornlaan' <> 'Ahornlaan - Avenue des Érables'
>>> [id:23104870] Difference between name:fr + name:nl vs. the name: 'Avenue 
>>> des Cèdres - Cederlaan' <> 'Cederlaan - Avenue des Cèdres'
>>> [id:23104903] Difference between name:fr + name:nl vs. the name: 'Avenue 
>>> des Tilleuls - Lindenlaan' <> 'Lindenlaan - Avenue des Tilleuls'
>>> [id:23706462] Difference between name:fr + name:nl vs. the name: 'Avenue du 
>>> Manoir - Ridderhoflaan' <> 'Ridderhoflaan - Avenue du Manoir'
>>> [id:24450953] Difference between name:fr + name:nl vs. the name: 'Drève 
>>> Saint Corneille - Sint-Corneliusdreef' <> 'Drève Saint Corneille'
>>> [id:26322550] Difference between name:fr + name:nl vs. the name: 'Drèves 
>>> des Renards - Vossendreef' <> 'Drève des Renards - Vossendreef'
>>> [

Re: [OSM-talk-be] Multilingual names

[Gerard Vanderveken]

The strreets of Sint-Genesius-Rode that pop-up in your list, eg 23095320 
Schildknaaplaan, are actually the right ones.
As they are in the Flemisch region, their names have to start with the 
nl part.

This is intented and not an error.

Many others in Sint-Genesius-Rode are wrongly named as eg Avenue du Golf 
- Golflaan id 291970858


The ones that pop up in the list with a single nl name are also correct, 
because they are located in Hoeilaart.


Saw someone called Jakka, changing names 
 
in the wrong direction.

Have sent him a PM.

Regards,
Gerard

Glenn Plas wrote:


Since I could not resist fixing this...

 


As for the French-Dutch. I think I added a name once to a path in
Zonienwoud, in the other order. Can't find it right now. Perhaps
someone corrected my vandalism :-)
   



I fixed the problem in de tool and ran analysis on the export, I
discovered 2 small issues with moterway_junction having a name instead
of destination, after fixing those 2 I managed to fully parse the results,

The remarks of Gerard also pop up albeit a bit cryptic (saying it's
missing the names), that's because it doesn't know where the borders are
of the multi-linguistic zones.  The tool is not for beginners but
seasoned mappers who want enhanced validation outside of JOSM

here is a sample of those validations.  Some streets are very
difficult(like Chaussée de Waterloo for example) , the readme of the
tool talks in depth about those problems, read it first if you want to fix:


 


[id:15804224] Difference between name:fr + name:nl vs. the name: 'Drève Pittoresque - 
Schilderachtigedreef' <> 'Drève Pittoresque - Schilderachtige dreef'
[id:23095320] Difference between name:fr + name:nl vs. the name: 'Avenue de l'Écuyer 
- Schildknaaplaan' <> 'Schildknaaplaan - Avenue de l'Écuyer'
[id:23095323] Difference between name:fr + name:nl vs. the name: 'Avenue du Faucon - 
Valkenlaan' <> 'Valkenlaan - Avenue du Faucon'
[id:23104866] Difference between name:fr + name:nl vs. the name: 'Avenue des Érables 
- Ahornlaan' <> 'Ahornlaan - Avenue des Érables'
[id:23104868] Difference between name:fr + name:nl vs. the name: 'Avenue des Érables 
- Ahornlaan' <> 'Ahornlaan - Avenue des Érables'
[id:23104870] Difference between name:fr + name:nl vs. the name: 'Avenue des Cèdres - 
Cederlaan' <> 'Cederlaan - Avenue des Cèdres'
[id:23104903] Difference between name:fr + name:nl vs. the name: 'Avenue des Tilleuls 
- Lindenlaan' <> 'Lindenlaan - Avenue des Tilleuls'
[id:23706462] Difference between name:fr + name:nl vs. the name: 'Avenue du Manoir - 
Ridderhoflaan' <> 'Ridderhoflaan - Avenue du Manoir'
[id:24450953] Difference between name:fr + name:nl vs. the name: 'Drève Saint 
Corneille - Sint-Corneliusdreef' <> 'Drève Saint Corneille'
[id:26322550] Difference between name:fr + name:nl vs. the name: 'Drèves des Renards 
- Vossendreef' <> 'Drève des Renards - Vossendreef'
[id:27849646] Difference between name:fr + name:nl vs. the name: 'Sentiers des 
Muguets - Meibloemenvotpad' <> 'Sentiers des Muguets - Meibloemenvoetpad'
[id:27851213] Difference between name:fr + name:nl vs. the name: 'Drève de la Longue 
Queue - Langestaartdreef' <> 'Langestaartdreef'
[id:29556505] Difference between name:fr + name:nl vs. the name: 'Avenue Brassine - 
Brassinelaan' <> 'Brassinelaan - Avenue Brassine'
[id:31022009] Difference between name:fr + name:nl vs. the name: 'Avenue du 
Crépuscule - Schemerlaan' <> 'Schemerlaan - Avenue du Crépuscule'
[id:33127966] Difference between name:fr + name:nl vs. the name: 'Avenue Dubois - 
Duboislaan' <> 'Duboislaan'
[id:33128070] Difference between name:fr + name:nl vs. the name: 'Chaussée de La 
Hulpe - Terhulpsesteenweg' <> 'Terhulpsesteenweg'
[id:35096633] Difference between name:fr + name:nl vs. the name: 'Sentier de Waterloo 
- Waterloopad' <> 'Waterloopad - Sentier de Waterloo'
[id:35096634] Difference between name:fr + name:nl vs. the name: 'Sentier de Waterloo 
- Waterloopad' <> 'Waterloopad - Sentier de Waterloo'
[id:35400616] Difference between name:fr + name:nl vs. the name: 'Drève de la Longue 
Queue - Langestaartdreef' <> 'Langestaartdreef'
[id:35465111] Difference between name:fr + name:nl vs. the name: 'Drève Joséphine - 
Josephinedreef' <> 'Josephinedreef'
[id:39076318] Difference between name:fr + name:nl vs. the name: 'Avenue du Manoir - 
Ridderhoflaan' <> 'Ridderhoflaan - Avenue du Manoir'
[id:39327745] Difference between name:fr + name:nl vs. the name: 'Chemin des Tumuli - 
Tumuliweg' <> 'Tumuliweg'
[id:39443239] Difference between name:fr + name:nl vs. the name: 'Chaussée de 
Waterloo - Waterloosesteenweg' <> 'Waterloosesteenweg - Chaussée de Waterloo'
[id:39723650] Difference between name:fr + name:nl vs. the name: 'Drève Saint 
Corneille - Sint-Corneliusdreef' <> 'Sint-Corneliusdreef'
[id:39723653] Difference between name:fr + name:nl vs. the name: 'Drève Joséphine - 
Josephinedreef' <> 'Drève Joséphine'
 (and more)

Found deep

Re: [OSM-talk-be] Multilingual names

[Glenn Plas]

Since I could not resist fixing this...

> As for the French-Dutch. I think I added a name once to a path in
> Zonienwoud, in the other order. Can't find it right now. Perhaps
> someone corrected my vandalism :-)

I fixed the problem in de tool and ran analysis on the export, I
discovered 2 small issues with moterway_junction having a name instead
of destination, after fixing those 2 I managed to fully parse the results,

The remarks of Gerard also pop up albeit a bit cryptic (saying it's
missing the names), that's because it doesn't know where the borders are
of the multi-linguistic zones.  The tool is not for beginners but
seasoned mappers who want enhanced validation outside of JOSM

here is a sample of those validations.  Some streets are very
difficult(like Chaussée de Waterloo for example) , the readme of the
tool talks in depth about those problems, read it first if you want to fix:


> [id:15804224] Difference between name:fr + name:nl vs. the name: 'Drève 
> Pittoresque - Schilderachtigedreef' <> 'Drève Pittoresque - Schilderachtige 
> dreef'
> [id:23095320] Difference between name:fr + name:nl vs. the name: 'Avenue de 
> l'Écuyer - Schildknaaplaan' <> 'Schildknaaplaan - Avenue de l'Écuyer'
> [id:23095323] Difference between name:fr + name:nl vs. the name: 'Avenue du 
> Faucon - Valkenlaan' <> 'Valkenlaan - Avenue du Faucon'
> [id:23104866] Difference between name:fr + name:nl vs. the name: 'Avenue des 
> Érables - Ahornlaan' <> 'Ahornlaan - Avenue des Érables'
> [id:23104868] Difference between name:fr + name:nl vs. the name: 'Avenue des 
> Érables - Ahornlaan' <> 'Ahornlaan - Avenue des Érables'
> [id:23104870] Difference between name:fr + name:nl vs. the name: 'Avenue des 
> Cèdres - Cederlaan' <> 'Cederlaan - Avenue des Cèdres'
> [id:23104903] Difference between name:fr + name:nl vs. the name: 'Avenue des 
> Tilleuls - Lindenlaan' <> 'Lindenlaan - Avenue des Tilleuls'
> [id:23706462] Difference between name:fr + name:nl vs. the name: 'Avenue du 
> Manoir - Ridderhoflaan' <> 'Ridderhoflaan - Avenue du Manoir'
> [id:24450953] Difference between name:fr + name:nl vs. the name: 'Drève Saint 
> Corneille - Sint-Corneliusdreef' <> 'Drève Saint Corneille'
> [id:26322550] Difference between name:fr + name:nl vs. the name: 'Drèves des 
> Renards - Vossendreef' <> 'Drève des Renards - Vossendreef'
> [id:27849646] Difference between name:fr + name:nl vs. the name: 'Sentiers 
> des Muguets - Meibloemenvotpad' <> 'Sentiers des Muguets - Meibloemenvoetpad'
> [id:27851213] Difference between name:fr + name:nl vs. the name: 'Drève de la 
> Longue Queue - Langestaartdreef' <> 'Langestaartdreef'
> [id:29556505] Difference between name:fr + name:nl vs. the name: 'Avenue 
> Brassine - Brassinelaan' <> 'Brassinelaan - Avenue Brassine'
> [id:31022009] Difference between name:fr + name:nl vs. the name: 'Avenue du 
> Crépuscule - Schemerlaan' <> 'Schemerlaan - Avenue du Crépuscule'
> [id:33127966] Difference between name:fr + name:nl vs. the name: 'Avenue 
> Dubois - Duboislaan' <> 'Duboislaan'
> [id:33128070] Difference between name:fr + name:nl vs. the name: 'Chaussée de 
> La Hulpe - Terhulpsesteenweg' <> 'Terhulpsesteenweg'
> [id:35096633] Difference between name:fr + name:nl vs. the name: 'Sentier de 
> Waterloo - Waterloopad' <> 'Waterloopad - Sentier de Waterloo'
> [id:35096634] Difference between name:fr + name:nl vs. the name: 'Sentier de 
> Waterloo - Waterloopad' <> 'Waterloopad - Sentier de Waterloo'
> [id:35400616] Difference between name:fr + name:nl vs. the name: 'Drève de la 
> Longue Queue - Langestaartdreef' <> 'Langestaartdreef'
> [id:35465111] Difference between name:fr + name:nl vs. the name: 'Drève 
> Joséphine - Josephinedreef' <> 'Josephinedreef'
> [id:39076318] Difference between name:fr + name:nl vs. the name: 'Avenue du 
> Manoir - Ridderhoflaan' <> 'Ridderhoflaan - Avenue du Manoir'
> [id:39327745] Difference between name:fr + name:nl vs. the name: 'Chemin des 
> Tumuli - Tumuliweg' <> 'Tumuliweg'
> [id:39443239] Difference between name:fr + name:nl vs. the name: 'Chaussée de 
> Waterloo - Waterloosesteenweg' <> 'Waterloosesteenweg - Chaussée de Waterloo'
> [id:39723650] Difference between name:fr + name:nl vs. the name: 'Drève Saint 
> Corneille - Sint-Corneliusdreef' <> 'Sint-Corneliusdreef'
> [id:39723653] Difference between name:fr + name:nl vs. the name: 'Drève 
> Joséphine - Josephinedreef' <> 'Drève Joséphine'
>  (and more)
> 
> Found deep scan match (levenshtein) 'Rue de la Sapinière - Dennebosstraat' 
> [id:2352421079] vs. 'Rue de la Sapinère - Dennebosstraat' [id:27882771]. (Fix 
> the minor spell differences)
> Found deep scan match (levenshtein) 'Rue de la Sapinière - Dennebosstraat' 
> [id:2352421085] vs. 'Rue de la Sapinère - Dennebosstraat' [id:27882771]. (Fix 
> the minor spell differences)
> ... (and more)
> 
> [id:89137923] Difference between name:fr + name:nl vs. the name: 'Piscine 
> David Lloyd - Zwembad David Lloyd' <> 'Piscine David Lloyd'
-> pretty obvious what 

Re: [OSM-talk-be] Multilingual names

[Gerard Vanderveken]

For the Zoniënwoud, it should be observed that it is located on several 
cities and regions.
Path naming should also follow the rules for the region or city where 
they are located.

- Brussels - Oudergem, Bosvoorde, Ukkel, Woluwe : bilingual Fr- Nl
- Wallonia - Waterloo, La Hulpe : Fr
- Flanders - Hoeilaart, Overijse, Tervuren : Nl
- Flanders - St-Genesius-Rode (facilities) : Nl - Fr

Regards,
Gerard.


Glenn Plas wrote:


Hey Marc,

 


https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/User_talk:Gplv2 on the discussion
tab. Didn't you get a mail for that ?
   



oh .. I see , that probably goes to my google mail address, a bit of a
trashbin-mail account with massive amounts of spam hiding real messages,
I only check that sporadically

 


As for the French-Dutch. I think I added a name once to a path in
Zonienwoud, in the other order. Can't find it right now. Perhaps
someone corrected my vandalism :-)
   



The tool I made would pick that up and flag it, I only corrected about
3% (99%-96%).  It just made sense to further unify the data that way and
match the wiki page, didn't give it much thought hence failed to raise
this issue to the list.

I believe it's better this way as the former rule seemed to be a
political motivated one, and that has no place in OSM.  We should
refrain from making those types of decisions.

Like you, I don't care french is first , dutch is second, as long as it
is done consistently.  It makes the map look good.

In that regard, I am desperately looking for a quality resource on
street names in BXL, and I need one that is written exactly how it
should be written.

I used a document that was very complete but I failed to understand the
spelling rules in french language (I was always taught that capitals
aren't accented but apparently there are notable exceptions, one of them
applies to streetnames).

I was educated on the subject by Yves (bxl-forever).  I stopped my edits
at once and still need to roll back some of those accent problems, but I
need a street list first, when I have one, I can incorporate it in the
tool, that would be an awesome feature to have.

Sorry for not being more forthcoming on this, I didn't expect this
impact on us.

That Q/A tool would help you find the problem if it exists, I downloaded
zonienwoud to an osm file but it seems that a packages I use (medoo) has
been broken since I last used it.  I have to fix the source code first.

Glenn



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Re: [OSM-talk-be] Multilingual names

[Glenn Plas]

Hey Marc,

> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/User_talk:Gplv2 on the discussion
> tab. Didn't you get a mail for that ?

oh .. I see , that probably goes to my google mail address, a bit of a
trashbin-mail account with massive amounts of spam hiding real messages,
I only check that sporadically

> 
> As for the French-Dutch. I think I added a name once to a path in
> Zonienwoud, in the other order. Can't find it right now. Perhaps
> someone corrected my vandalism :-)

The tool I made would pick that up and flag it, I only corrected about
3% (99%-96%).  It just made sense to further unify the data that way and
match the wiki page, didn't give it much thought hence failed to raise
this issue to the list.

I believe it's better this way as the former rule seemed to be a
political motivated one, and that has no place in OSM.  We should
refrain from making those types of decisions.

Like you, I don't care french is first , dutch is second, as long as it
is done consistently.  It makes the map look good.

In that regard, I am desperately looking for a quality resource on
street names in BXL, and I need one that is written exactly how it
should be written.

I used a document that was very complete but I failed to understand the
spelling rules in french language (I was always taught that capitals
aren't accented but apparently there are notable exceptions, one of them
applies to streetnames).

I was educated on the subject by Yves (bxl-forever).  I stopped my edits
at once and still need to roll back some of those accent problems, but I
need a street list first, when I have one, I can incorporate it in the
tool, that would be an awesome feature to have.

Sorry for not being more forthcoming on this, I didn't expect this
impact on us.

That Q/A tool would help you find the problem if it exists, I downloaded
zonienwoud to an osm file but it seems that a packages I use (medoo) has
been broken since I last used it.  I have to fix the source code first.

Glenn



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Re: [OSM-talk-be] Multilingual names

[Marc Gemis]

On Fri, Apr 21, 2017 at 10:03 AM, Glenn Plas  wrote:
>>
>> I asked Gplv2 to point me to the discussion leading to the consensus.
>
> I've must have missed your question on that, can you let me know
> how/where you asked ?  always ready to answer you.

https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/User_talk:Gplv2 on the discussion
tab. Didn't you get a mail for that ?

As for the French-Dutch. I think I added a name once to a path in
Zonienwoud, in the other order. Can't find it right now. Perhaps
someone corrected my vandalism :-)

m.

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Re: [OSM-talk-be] Multilingual names

[Glenn Plas]

On 07-04-17 13:22, Jo wrote:
> Wow, for the faciliteitengemeenten I don't agree either!

That's not mine :)   I live on the border of those silly legal entities
and I disagree as well :)

Glenn


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Re: [OSM-talk-be] Multilingual names

[Glenn Plas]

Hi Marc,

gplv2 that will be me :)

On 07-04-17 11:28, Marc Gemis wrote:
> I just stumbled upon the wiki page
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Multilingual_names#Brussels
> I was surprised to read e.g. "Note that the "first mapper rule" is
> deprecated now." and "In OSM, we have a consensus to use a fixed
> order" (both changes made by Gplv2 on Oct 19, 2016)

Yup, the first mapper rule is even more silly and you end up with a
mixed dataset you can't even automatically perform Q/A checks on, there
was already a defacto standard going on in BXL, I just changed the wiki
to reflect that change, 99% of the data was 'fr - nl'.

> 
> Not that I care about the order of French and Dutch on those
> streetnames, but it would be nice to inform the community about such
> an important change via the mailing list, not ? If this is indeed the
> consensus I would have violated it since I did not know deprecation of
> the first mapper rule.

There was no change really, only an update to the wiki to reflect
reality, if you check the data, it's almost entirely entered in this
way.  Not many new streets pop up these days, so it has little impact.

> 
> I asked Gplv2 to point me to the discussion leading to the consensus.

I've must have missed your question on that, can you let me know
how/where you asked ?  always ready to answer you.

> 
> So I have no problems with this being the consensus, I do have a
> problem that such an important change is made without informing the
> mailing list.

Again, I don't aggree on this being a BIG change, in fact, I guestimate
that at the time, about 96% of BXL was in this format, so it might not
have been a true consensus we talked about in depth, the data told me
that this was a defacto consensus so I changed the wiki to reflect
reality.  I did this to guide OSM newbees

Take a look here, I made a tool to analyse this :
https://github.com/gplv2/urbis-validate

The only problem with it is that it doesn't support capitals with
accents (a change I need to make soon).

Glenn


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Re: [OSM-talk-be] Multilingual names

[Jo]

Wow, for the faciliteitengemeenten I don't agree either! For Brussels I
don't really care that name has "fr - nl" order in a consistent way.

For faciliteitengemeenten it should be official language only in name and
name:fr, name:nl as fits.

Polyglot

2017-04-07 12:34 GMT+02:00 Gerard Vanderveken :

> Ik lees ook :
> *These municipalities should have the official translated names under
> name:nl =*, name:fr
> =* and name:de
> =* (depending on which
> language facilities are offered), the name
> =* tag should contain only
> the official name in the primary language. For the moment, the
> municipalities bordering Brussels also follow the naming schema used in
> Brussels (with both languages in the name tag), while the other
> municipalities have a tendency to only include a single language in the
> name tag. Do not delete translated data by following this rule. If a good
> translation exists in a dutch municipality in french, do not remove it. We
> only care for correct data, as much as possible without being intrusive in
> any way. *
> Ook de dubbele standaard voor de taalfacileitgemeenten rond Brussel lijkt
> mij niet aangewezen.
> Ofwel doe je voor iedere faciliteitsgemeente in de name tag alleen de
> officiele taal, ofwel beiden in volgorde van officiele - faciliteit.
>
> Met vriendelijke groeten,
> Gerard.
>
>
> Ben Laenen wrote:
>
> On Friday, 7 April 2017 11:28:32 CEST Marc Gemis wrote:
>
>
> I just stumbled upon the wiki 
> pagehttps://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Multilingual_names#Brussels
> I was surprised to read e.g. "Note that the "first mapper rule" is
> deprecated now." and "In OSM, we have a consensus to use a fixed
> order" (both changes made by Gplv2 on Oct 19, 2016)
>
> Not that I care about the order of French and Dutch on those
> streetnames, but it would be nice to inform the community about such
> an important change via the mailing list, not ? If this is indeed the
> consensus I would have violated it since I did not know deprecation of
> the first mapper rule.
>
> I asked Gplv2 to point me to the discussion leading to the consensus.
>
> So I have no problems with this being the consensus, I do have a
> problem that such an important change is made without informing the
> mailing list.
>
>
> There was a small talk about it around that time in the thread "Some
> information about Nominatim for addresses in Brussels" on this mailing list.
>
> But there was no real discussion to change it, and certainly no consensus.
>
> Ben
>
>
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>
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Re: [OSM-talk-be] Multilingual names

[Gerard Vanderveken]

Ik lees ook :
These municipalities should have the official translated names under 
name:nl =*, name:fr 
=* and name:de 
=* (depending on which 
language facilities are offered), the name 
=* tag should contain only 
the official name in the primary language. For the moment, the 
municipalities bordering Brussels also follow the naming schema used in 
Brussels (with both languages in the name tag), while the other 
municipalities have a tendency to only include a single language in the 
name tag. Do not delete translated data by following this rule. If a 
good translation exists in a dutch municipality in french, do not remove 
it. We only care for correct data, as much as possible without being 
intrusive in any way.
Ook de dubbele standaard voor de taalfacileitgemeenten rond Brussel 
lijkt mij niet aangewezen.
Ofwel doe je voor iedere faciliteitsgemeente in de name tag alleen de 
officiele taal, ofwel beiden in volgorde van officiele - faciliteit.


Met vriendelijke groeten,
Gerard.

Ben Laenen wrote:


On Friday, 7 April 2017 11:28:32 CEST Marc Gemis wrote:
 


I just stumbled upon the wiki page
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Multilingual_names#Brussels
I was surprised to read e.g. "Note that the "first mapper rule" is
deprecated now." and "In OSM, we have a consensus to use a fixed
order" (both changes made by Gplv2 on Oct 19, 2016)

Not that I care about the order of French and Dutch on those
streetnames, but it would be nice to inform the community about such
an important change via the mailing list, not ? If this is indeed the
consensus I would have violated it since I did not know deprecation of
the first mapper rule.

I asked Gplv2 to point me to the discussion leading to the consensus.

So I have no problems with this being the consensus, I do have a
problem that such an important change is made without informing the
mailing list.
   



There was a small talk about it around that time in the thread "Some 
information about Nominatim for addresses in Brussels" on this mailing list.


But there was no real discussion to change it, and certainly no consensus.

Ben


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Re: [OSM-talk-be] Multilingual names

[Ben Laenen]

On Friday, 7 April 2017 11:28:32 CEST Marc Gemis wrote:
> I just stumbled upon the wiki page
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Multilingual_names#Brussels
> I was surprised to read e.g. "Note that the "first mapper rule" is
> deprecated now." and "In OSM, we have a consensus to use a fixed
> order" (both changes made by Gplv2 on Oct 19, 2016)
> 
> Not that I care about the order of French and Dutch on those
> streetnames, but it would be nice to inform the community about such
> an important change via the mailing list, not ? If this is indeed the
> consensus I would have violated it since I did not know deprecation of
> the first mapper rule.
> 
> I asked Gplv2 to point me to the discussion leading to the consensus.
> 
> So I have no problems with this being the consensus, I do have a
> problem that such an important change is made without informing the
> mailing list.

There was a small talk about it around that time in the thread "Some 
information about Nominatim for addresses in Brussels" on this mailing list.

But there was no real discussion to change it, and certainly no consensus.

Ben


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[OSM-talk-be] Multilingual names

[Marc Gemis]

I just stumbled upon the wiki page
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Multilingual_names#Brussels
I was surprised to read e.g. "Note that the "first mapper rule" is
deprecated now." and "In OSM, we have a consensus to use a fixed
order" (both changes made by Gplv2 on Oct 19, 2016)

Not that I care about the order of French and Dutch on those
streetnames, but it would be nice to inform the community about such
an important change via the mailing list, not ? If this is indeed the
consensus I would have violated it since I did not know deprecation of
the first mapper rule.

I asked Gplv2 to point me to the discussion leading to the consensus.

So I have no problems with this being the consensus, I do have a
problem that such an important change is made without informing the
mailing list.

m.

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