Re: [OSM-talk-be] Neighbourhoods in Ghent mapped as a point

[joost schouppe]

I thought about this idea some more, and I'm not sure it's a good idea to
use ALL the polygons. Municipality governments tend to have several
competing "wijk" concepts, that usually are not official (ask me how I
know). Their names might coincide with what citizens think of when they say
Brugse Poort, but they might be defined differently. For example the Gent
"wijk" boundaries are bound to be based on statistical sectors (as defined
by statbel). But when those don't exactly match with your idea of a
neighborhood, they still are respected for practical reasons. The "wijk"
boundaries also cover the entire territory, even if there is no local
concept of the area being a "wijk" in the heads of the citizens. E.g. I
don't think anyone would say they are from "Stationsbuurt Noord".
I would propose only adding polygons for those neighborhoods where you feel
they are clearly defined (i.e. verifiable). This should be enough to stop a
data user from applying a "Malem" label to an address that is clearly
outside that neighborhood, without labelling all adresses with a
semi-random neighborhood.

The fact that "wijken" do not exist as a Flemish or Belgian level
administrative devision, means that it is hard to define how they should
the admin_level structure for admin_boundaries in Belgium; even if the
municipality would have officialized their existence at all.

Op wo 21 aug. 2019 om 09:41 schreef Santens Seppe :

> Hi Pieter,
>
>
>
> It might take a bit more work to join the boundaries of the neighbourhoods
> with the existing boundaries of the city and the city sections. If the open
> data of the city of Ghent should diverge from what is already in OSM, it
> should be decided upon which dataset has the truth, which is not always
> straightforward J
>
>
>
> Cheers,
>
>
>
> Seppe
>
>
>
> *Van:* Lionel Giard [mailto:lionel.gi...@gmail.com]
> *Verzonden:* dinsdag 20 augustus 2019 9:54
> *Aan:* OpenStreetMap Belgium
> *Onderwerp:* Re: [OSM-talk-be] Neighbourhoods in Ghent mapped as a point
>
>
>
> Yes the node approach is only done when the boundaries are unknown (and so
> this is an approximation) but in this case, as we have the boundaries as
> open data, we could add them indeed. You can see it in the wiki page too
> <https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:place>. Thus, creating a polygon
> using the exact boundaries of the open data with the tag
> "place=neighbourhood" + "name=*" should be fine. You can just import a
> shapefile or similar format in JOSM for example, and tag it correctly.
>
>
>
> Le lun. 19 août 2019 à 10:35, Pieter Colpaert  a
> écrit :
>
> Hi all,
>
> Neighbourhoods in Ghent are mapped as a point. See for example
> https://www.openstreetmap.org/node/2274965455
>
> The problem with this is that nominatim will add the neighbourhood to an
> address string, based on the nearest point. An address still in the
> Brugse Poort therefore will get an obvious wrong neighbourhood attached
> to it. See for example
>
> https://nominatim.openstreetmap.org/search.php?q=appelstraat+27%2C+9000+Gent&polygon_geojson=1&viewbox=.
>
> This point is in the Brugse Poort, but it is closest to the point of the
> neighbourhood Malem.
>
> Should we change these point to be polygons instead?
>
> There is also an official Open Data list of “wijken” (which is not
> entirely the same though) on the open data portal of the city of Ghent:
> https://datatank.stad.gent/4/grondgebied/wijken → Should we map these
> bounds in OSM as well? And how?
>
> Kind regards,
>
> Pieter
>
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-- 
Joost Schouppe
OpenStreetMap <http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/joost%20schouppe/> |
Twitter <https://twitter.com/joostjakob> | LinkedIn
<https://www.linkedin.com/pub/joost-schouppe/48/939/603> | Meetup
<http://www.meetup.com/OpenStreetMap-Belgium/members/97979802/>
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Re: [OSM-talk-be] Neighbourhoods in Ghent mapped as a point

[Santens Seppe]

Hi Pieter,

It might take a bit more work to join the boundaries of the neighbourhoods with 
the existing boundaries of the city and the city sections. If the open data of 
the city of Ghent should diverge from what is already in OSM, it should be 
decided upon which dataset has the truth, which is not always straightforward ☺

Cheers,

Seppe

Van: Lionel Giard [mailto:lionel.gi...@gmail.com]
Verzonden: dinsdag 20 augustus 2019 9:54
Aan: OpenStreetMap Belgium
Onderwerp: Re: [OSM-talk-be] Neighbourhoods in Ghent mapped as a point

Yes the node approach is only done when the boundaries are unknown (and so this 
is an approximation) but in this case, as we have the boundaries as open data, 
we could add them indeed. You can see it in the wiki page 
too<https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:place>. Thus, creating a polygon 
using the exact boundaries of the open data with the tag "place=neighbourhood" 
+ "name=*" should be fine. You can just import a shapefile or similar format in 
JOSM for example, and tag it correctly.

Le lun. 19 août 2019 à 10:35, Pieter Colpaert 
mailto:pie...@openknowledge.be>> a écrit :
Hi all,

Neighbourhoods in Ghent are mapped as a point. See for example
https://www.openstreetmap.org/node/2274965455

The problem with this is that nominatim will add the neighbourhood to an
address string, based on the nearest point. An address still in the
Brugse Poort therefore will get an obvious wrong neighbourhood attached
to it. See for example
https://nominatim.openstreetmap.org/search.php?q=appelstraat+27%2C+9000+Gent&polygon_geojson=1&viewbox=.
This point is in the Brugse Poort, but it is closest to the point of the
neighbourhood Malem.

Should we change these point to be polygons instead?

There is also an official Open Data list of “wijken” (which is not
entirely the same though) on the open data portal of the city of Ghent:
https://datatank.stad.gent/4/grondgebied/wijken → Should we map these
bounds in OSM as well? And how?

Kind regards,

Pieter

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Re: [OSM-talk-be] Neighbourhoods in Ghent mapped as a point

[Lionel Giard]

Yes the node approach is only done when the boundaries are unknown (and so
this is an approximation) but in this case, as we have the boundaries as
open data, we could add them indeed. You can see it in the wiki page too
. Thus, creating a polygon
using the exact boundaries of the open data with the tag
"place=neighbourhood" + "name=*" should be fine. You can just import a
shapefile or similar format in JOSM for example, and tag it correctly.

Le lun. 19 août 2019 à 10:35, Pieter Colpaert  a
écrit :

> Hi all,
>
> Neighbourhoods in Ghent are mapped as a point. See for example
> https://www.openstreetmap.org/node/2274965455
>
> The problem with this is that nominatim will add the neighbourhood to an
> address string, based on the nearest point. An address still in the
> Brugse Poort therefore will get an obvious wrong neighbourhood attached
> to it. See for example
>
> https://nominatim.openstreetmap.org/search.php?q=appelstraat+27%2C+9000+Gent&polygon_geojson=1&viewbox=.
>
> This point is in the Brugse Poort, but it is closest to the point of the
> neighbourhood Malem.
>
> Should we change these point to be polygons instead?
>
> There is also an official Open Data list of “wijken” (which is not
> entirely the same though) on the open data portal of the city of Ghent:
> https://datatank.stad.gent/4/grondgebied/wijken → Should we map these
> bounds in OSM as well? And how?
>
> Kind regards,
>
> Pieter
>
> ___
> Talk-be mailing list
> Talk-be@openstreetmap.org
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be
>
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[OSM-talk-be] Neighbourhoods in Ghent mapped as a point

[Pieter Colpaert]

Hi all,

Neighbourhoods in Ghent are mapped as a point. See for example 
https://www.openstreetmap.org/node/2274965455


The problem with this is that nominatim will add the neighbourhood to an 
address string, based on the nearest point. An address still in the 
Brugse Poort therefore will get an obvious wrong neighbourhood attached 
to it. See for example 
https://nominatim.openstreetmap.org/search.php?q=appelstraat+27%2C+9000+Gent&polygon_geojson=1&viewbox=. 
This point is in the Brugse Poort, but it is closest to the point of the 
neighbourhood Malem.


Should we change these point to be polygons instead?

There is also an official Open Data list of “wijken” (which is not 
entirely the same though) on the open data portal of the city of Ghent: 
https://datatank.stad.gent/4/grondgebied/wijken → Should we map these 
bounds in OSM as well? And how?


Kind regards,

Pieter

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