Re: [OSM-talk-be] New Boundary for Belgium - NL?
On 2013-11-07 17:41, Kurt Roeckx wrote : But it's not only rivers. Roads are often also the border and might later be widened, straighten out and so on. You can do 2 things when currently mapping them and you don't have official coordinates: - Re-use the existing nodes, nodes end up in 2 ways - Use other points for them, they don't share nodes In the first case you of course need to be careful when moving such a node. But we might not know better where the border really is so it's often easier to map re-use the nodes. ? I remember having read on this list that Belgian boundary nodes must not be shared with roads, landuse, etc. But it's probably not written in the wiki. I agree with this decision, the principal reason being that the very kind guy who has mastered tagging roads is usually not aware of the intricacies of boundaries and of the consequences of modifying or deleting one of their nodes. He's probably using Potlatch which is not the ideal tool to warn that something dangerous is being done and help doing it. On the German border, there are no less than 6-8 ways and relations on the same line. Someone managed to add a path and 3 landuse to that, if I recall well, in which Osmose detected an error. I refused to touch at that stack. A few days ago, I removed 2 pedestrian crossings that were standing alone on the Brussels' boundary. The most surprising is those ways that cross a boundary at a right angle and share a node with it. You can see here a gate to which the Belgium-Netherlands boundary is attached http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/node/2156401570. The form of the boundary seems to show that the gate was pulled towards Belgium to extend the Dutch territory. And there was no La Libre article nor Parliament session in this case ;-) Cheers, André. ___ Talk-be mailing list Talk-be@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be
Re: [OSM-talk-be] New Boundary for Belgium - NL?
the decision has yet to be passed before the parliaments of both countries. Don't be impatient Le 8 nov. 2013 19:36, André Pirard a.pirard.pa...@gmail.com a écrit : On 2013-11-07 17:41, Kurt Roeckx wrote : But it's not only rivers. Roads are often also the border and might later be widened, straighten out and so on. You can do 2 things when currently mapping them and you don't have official coordinates: - Re-use the existing nodes, nodes end up in 2 ways - Use other points for them, they don't share nodes In the first case you of course need to be careful when moving such a node. But we might not know better where the border really is so it's often easier to map re-use the nodes. ? I remember having read on this list that Belgian boundary nodes must not be shared with roads, landuse, etc. But it's probably not written in the wiki. I agree with this decision, the principal reason being that the very kind guy who has mastered tagging roads is usually not aware of the intricacies of boundaries and of the consequences of modifying or deleting one of their nodes. He's probably using Potlatch which is not the ideal tool to warn that something dangerous is being done and help doing it. On the German border, there are no less than 6-8 ways and relations on the same line. Someone managed to add a path and 3 landuse to that, if I recall well, in which Osmose detected an error. I refused to touch at that stack. A few days ago, I removed 2 pedestrian crossings that were standing alone on the Brussels' boundary. The most surprising is those ways that cross a boundary at a right angle and share a node with it. You can see here a gate to which the Belgium-Netherlands boundary is attached http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/node/2156401570. The form of the boundary seems to show that the gate was pulled towards Belgium to extend the Dutch territory. And there was no La Libre article nor Parliament session in this case ;-) Cheers, André. ___ Talk-be mailing list Talk-be@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be ___ Talk-be mailing list Talk-be@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be
Re: [OSM-talk-be] New Boundary for Belgium - NL?
On 2013-11-07 08:49, eMerzh wrote : Hi, i've just stumble upon this :http://www.lalibre.be/actu/belgique/la-belgique-va-ceder-une-dizaine-d-hectares-aux-pays-bas-527b198035703e420f40e11f anyone has more informations about this? it might be interesting to be the first map to be up to date :) (sorry for the fr only article) No problem, here is the translation. Quite decent English. Better than for the discussions on this list, I'm afraid. Not simple Dutch and even the English translations are hard to understand. La Libre: So, a change of the border is under negotiation and will soon be presented to governments and chambers of the two countries, said "La Libre Belgique". I was just writing a few days ago that, as the law says that the law cannot be copyrighted, there can be no copyright for boundaries, as well as for traffic signs. Shouldn't the boundary maps normally be found in the Moniteur together with this kind of announcement? I wonder what happens when the river or stream used as a borderline by OSM changes its course by itself. And, after finding two pedestrian crossings on Brussels' borderlines, whether the river specialist mapper will notice that moving a river moves a border too. anyone has more informations about this? it might be interesting to be the first map to be up to date :) Many newspapers (but not La Meuse ;-)) contain the (same) information, try a search in Dutch. "Nul n'est censé ignorer la loi" (No one is supposed to ignore the law). When I want to watch eBay articles, I record a daily keyword search whose results are sent to me by e-mail. Any idea when the government will invent that for the law? Cheers, André. ___ Talk-be mailing list Talk-be@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be
Re: [OSM-talk-be] New Boundary for Belgium - NL?
On Thu, Nov 07, 2013 at 05:00:51PM +0100, André Pirard wrote: I was just writing a few days ago that, as the law says that the law cannot be copyrighted, there can be no copyright for boundaries, as well as for traffic signs. Shouldn't the boundary maps normally be found in the Moniteur together with this kind of announcement?br I'm pretty sure it will be published with coordinates. There are existing laws with coordinates in them, at least for borders between municipalities. But it's hard to find them all since only the recent changes are made available digitally. I wonder what happens when the river or stream used as a borderline by OSM changes its course by itself. There are defentily cases where the border is the historic path of a river, and either the river changed by itself or man altered it's path but that the border stayed. But it's not only rivers. Roads are often also the border and might later be widened, straighten out and so on. You can do 2 things when currently mapping them and you don't have official coordinates: - Re-use the existing nodes, nodes end up in 2 ways - Use other points for them, they don't share nodes In the first case you of course need to be careful when moving such a node. But we might not know better where the border really is so it's often easier to map re-use the nodes. Kurt ___ Talk-be mailing list Talk-be@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be
[OSM-talk-be] New Boundary for Belgium - NL?
Hi, i've just stumble upon this : http://www.lalibre.be/actu/belgique/la-belgique-va-ceder-une-dizaine-d-hectares-aux-pays-bas-527b198035703e420f40e11f anyone has more informations about this? it might be interesting to be the first map to be up to date :) (sorry for the fr only article) Regards, Brice ___ Talk-be mailing list Talk-be@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be
