[OSM-talk-be] identifier in ref:xOperatorx=y0yyyy to url=http://mijnlijn.be/y0yyyy

[Jo]

Our bus stops in Flanders have unique identifiers visible to the public on
the flags of the stop poles.

I started by entering those in the ref tag, then later decided to use
ref:De_Lijn=y0, as some of those stops are served by other operators as
well.

For several years now itt's possible to obtain real-time information about
the buses on a url+identifier, so I want to add that to those stops. As i
don't like to duplicate information I'd prefer to drop the ref:De_Lijn
though.

So all of those stops would have:
url=http://mijnlijn.be/303079(<- you can test this, the url is
expanded/translated to a url on www.delijn.be)

For the conversion, I'd like to launch a Belgian "Project of the month", so
the position of the stops can be verified once more by locals, but also
shelters and bus_bays can be added and if cycle ways split off to go around
those bus bays, that detail can be added as well.

I know that that is what we have been doing for the past 5+ years, but now
it would get some more dedicated focus.

For several years I thought having the identifier n a dedicated ref:X tag
and then telling everyone about how to turn it into such a url was the way
to go,. That doesn't actually work though. Nobody knows how to get from the
identifer to the url. Giving potential passengers a url they can simply
click through on, seems to be the better way of doing this for this use
case.

Polyglot
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Re: [OSM-talk-be] identifier in ref:xOperatorx=y0yyyy to url=http://mijnlijn.be/y0yyyy

[Jakka]

Using key as "url=" not comming in conflict with already other keys that 
use short key url ?


Op 18/11/2018 om 10:51 schreef Jo:

Our bus stops in Flanders have unique identifiers visible to the public
on the flags of the stop poles.

I started by entering those in the ref tag, then later decided to use
ref:De_Lijn=y0, as some of those stops are served by other operators
as well.

For several years now itt's possible to obtain real-time information
about the buses on a url+identifier, so I want to add that to those
stops. As i don't like to duplicate information I'd prefer to drop the
ref:De_Lijn though.

So all of those stops would have:
url=http://mijnlijn.be/303079(<- you can test this, the url is
expanded/translated to a url on www.delijn.be )

For the conversion, I'd like to launch a Belgian "Project of the month",
so the position of the stops can be verified once more by locals, but
also shelters and bus_bays can be added and if cycle ways split off to
go around those bus bays, that detail can be added as well.

I know that that is what we have been doing for the past 5+ years, but
now it would get some more dedicated focus.

For several years I thought having the identifier n a dedicated ref:X
tag and then telling everyone about how to turn it into such a url was
the way to go,. That doesn't actually work though. Nobody knows how to
get from the identifer to the url. Giving potential passengers a url
they can simply click through on, seems to be the better way of doing
this for this use case.

Polyglot


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Re: [OSM-talk-be] identifier in ref:xOperatorx=y0yyyy to url=http://mijnlijn.be/y0yyyy

[Marc Gemis]

I would not drop the ref. The ref is visible on the signs, so it is a
"real thing". I have no problem that people add the URL as well. The
same is done for heritage sites. There is both a ref
(refLOnroerendErfgoed and a heritage:website.)

m.
On Sun, Nov 18, 2018 at 10:52 AM Jo  wrote:
>
> Our bus stops in Flanders have unique identifiers visible to the public on 
> the flags of the stop poles.
>
> I started by entering those in the ref tag, then later decided to use 
> ref:De_Lijn=y0, as some of those stops are served by other operators as 
> well.
>
> For several years now itt's possible to obtain real-time information about 
> the buses on a url+identifier, so I want to add that to those stops. As i 
> don't like to duplicate information I'd prefer to drop the ref:De_Lijn though.
>
> So all of those stops would have:
> url=http://mijnlijn.be/303079(<- you can test this, the url is 
> expanded/translated to a url on www.delijn.be)
>
> For the conversion, I'd like to launch a Belgian "Project of the month", so 
> the position of the stops can be verified once more by locals, but also 
> shelters and bus_bays can be added and if cycle ways split off to go around 
> those bus bays, that detail can be added as well.
>
> I know that that is what we have been doing for the past 5+ years, but now it 
> would get some more dedicated focus.
>
> For several years I thought having the identifier n a dedicated ref:X tag and 
> then telling everyone about how to turn it into such a url was the way to 
> go,. That doesn't actually work though. Nobody knows how to get from the 
> identifer to the url. Giving potential passengers a url they can simply click 
> through on, seems to be the better way of doing this for this use case.
>
> Polyglot
> ___
> Talk-be mailing list
> Talk-be@openstreetmap.org
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be

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Re: [OSM-talk-be] identifier in ref:xOperatorx=y0yyyy to url=http://mijnlijn.be/y0yyyy

[Pieter Colpaert]

Hi Polyglot,

We are in a Linked Data project with De Lijn and we’re going to have 
official persistent identifiers (HTTP URIs) soon for stops (but also for 
things like the routes and zones). It might be interesting to integrate 
these in OSM rather than the mijnlijn.be one?


From the moment we have an official URI strategy, I will get back to 
this list in each case.


Kind regards,

Pieter

On 18/11/18 11:10, Jakka wrote:
Using key as "url=" not comming in conflict with already other keys 
that use short key url ?


Op 18/11/2018 om 10:51 schreef Jo:

Our bus stops in Flanders have unique identifiers visible to the public
on the flags of the stop poles.

I started by entering those in the ref tag, then later decided to use
ref:De_Lijn=y0, as some of those stops are served by other operators
as well.

For several years now itt's possible to obtain real-time information
about the buses on a url+identifier, so I want to add that to those
stops. As i don't like to duplicate information I'd prefer to drop the
ref:De_Lijn though.

So all of those stops would have:
url=http://mijnlijn.be/303079    (<- you can test this, the url is
expanded/translated to a url on www.delijn.be )

For the conversion, I'd like to launch a Belgian "Project of the month",
so the position of the stops can be verified once more by locals, but
also shelters and bus_bays can be added and if cycle ways split off to
go around those bus bays, that detail can be added as well.

I know that that is what we have been doing for the past 5+ years, but
now it would get some more dedicated focus.

For several years I thought having the identifier n a dedicated ref:X
tag and then telling everyone about how to turn it into such a url was
the way to go,. That doesn't actually work though. Nobody knows how to
get from the identifer to the url. Giving potential passengers a url
they can simply click through on, seems to be the better way of doing
this for this use case.

Polyglot


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Re: [OSM-talk-be] identifier in ref:xOperatorx=y0yyyy to url=http://mijnlijn.be/y0yyyy

[Jo]

Frank,

url wasn't used yet on the bus stops, so no conflict there.

Pieter, good to hear De Lijn plans such deep links. I think it will be good
to have them on our route_master relations. The route relations are for the
longest variations in itinerary, not sure if they fit there.

For the stops, I tend to like the mijnlijn.be/ form, as that is the
information printed on each of the paper schedules on the stops. So if De
Lijn is not planning to abolish those in the medium term, I'd prefer to use
them. I'll hold off with preparing the data and launching the Project of
the Month though.

Pieter, is De Lijn planning to introduce uic identifiers we could put in
uic_ref?

We don't have anything that corresponds to the zones in OSM. I'm curious to
find out what will be behind those urls. I painstakinglly added the zone
information on the stops, but now that a ticket has a time limitation
instead of a zone dependent one, they became less relevant.

Marc, we can leave the ref:De_Lijn tags. I'm not strongly against keeping
them, but I doubt anyone uses them (except me in my integraton scripts). If
anyone wants to use them, it's trivial to extract the identifiers from the
url tag values.

There is another tag I'd like to introduce. While reviewing the import of
bus stops around Finland, they added a direction tag.

My first reflex was to remove it after reviewing the stop, but now I start
to see value in knowing in which direction the bus will leave. I plan to
add functionality to PT_Assistant to calculate it automatically based on
the segment of the way the stop is adjacent to. And in a second stage a
validator rule that checks whether the stop is (still) on the correct side
of the road (right or left, depending on the side of the road vehicles
drive on)

Polyglot





El dom., 18 nov. 2018 a las 11:19, Pieter Colpaert ()
escribió:

> Hi Polyglot,
>
> We are in a Linked Data project with De Lijn and we’re going to have
> official persistent identifiers (HTTP URIs) soon for stops (but also for
> things like the routes and zones). It might be interesting to integrate
> these in OSM rather than the mijnlijn.be one?
>
>  From the moment we have an official URI strategy, I will get back to
> this list in each case.
>
> Kind regards,
>
> Pieter
>
> On 18/11/18 11:10, Jakka wrote:
> > Using key as "url=" not comming in conflict with already other keys
> > that use short key url ?
> >
> > Op 18/11/2018 om 10:51 schreef Jo:
> >> Our bus stops in Flanders have unique identifiers visible to the public
> >> on the flags of the stop poles.
> >>
> >> I started by entering those in the ref tag, then later decided to use
> >> ref:De_Lijn=y0, as some of those stops are served by other operators
> >> as well.
> >>
> >> For several years now itt's possible to obtain real-time information
> >> about the buses on a url+identifier, so I want to add that to those
> >> stops. As i don't like to duplicate information I'd prefer to drop the
> >> ref:De_Lijn though.
> >>
> >> So all of those stops would have:
> >> url=http://mijnlijn.be/303079(<- you can test this, the url is
> >> expanded/translated to a url on www.delijn.be )
> >>
> >> For the conversion, I'd like to launch a Belgian "Project of the month",
> >> so the position of the stops can be verified once more by locals, but
> >> also shelters and bus_bays can be added and if cycle ways split off to
> >> go around those bus bays, that detail can be added as well.
> >>
> >> I know that that is what we have been doing for the past 5+ years, but
> >> now it would get some more dedicated focus.
> >>
> >> For several years I thought having the identifier n a dedicated ref:X
> >> tag and then telling everyone about how to turn it into such a url was
> >> the way to go,. That doesn't actually work though. Nobody knows how to
> >> get from the identifer to the url. Giving potential passengers a url
> >> they can simply click through on, seems to be the better way of doing
> >> this for this use case.
> >>
> >> Polyglot
> >>
> >>
> >> ___
> >> Talk-be mailing list
> >> Talk-be@openstreetmap.org
> >> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> > ___
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> > Talk-be@openstreetmap.org
> > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be
>
> --
> +32486747122
>
>
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Re: [OSM-talk-be] identifier in ref:xOperatorx=y0yyyy to url=http://mijnlijn.be/y0yyyy

[André Pirard]

  
  
On 2018-11-18 13:47, Jo wrote:


  Frank,


url wasn't used yet on the bus stops, so no conflict there.
  

Jakka's point is not that "url" is used but that it could be wanted
and that this usage would prevent it.
To prevent the "first jumping on it owns it" practice, the good move
would be to consider that anything:url is officially an URL.
"being officially" meaning principally that listings make it a
clickable link.
Even though any URL can be recognized inside any text and made
clickable.
But I've had problems suggesting to make multiple tags containing
URLs clickable.
The answer was: "the URL tag exists already" ;-)

All the best,



  

  André.

  



  
Pieter, good to hear De Lijn plans such deep links. I think
  it will be good to have them on our route_master relations.
  The route relations are for the longest variations in
  itinerary, not sure if they fit there.


For the stops, I tend to like the mijnlijn.be/
  form, as that is the information printed on each of the paper
  schedules on the stops. So if De Lijn is not planning to
  abolish those in the medium term, I'd prefer to use them. I'll
  hold off with preparing the data and launching the Project of
  the Month though.


Pieter, is De Lijn planning to introduce uic identifiers we
  could put in uic_ref?


We don't have anything that corresponds to the zones in
  OSM. I'm curious to find out what will be behind those urls. I
  painstakinglly added the zone information on the stops, but
  now that a ticket has a time limitation instead of a zone
  dependent one, they became less relevant.


Marc, we can leave the ref:De_Lijn tags. I'm not strongly
  against keeping them, but I doubt anyone uses them (except me
  in my integraton scripts). If anyone wants to use them, it's
  trivial to extract the identifiers from the url tag values.


There is another tag I'd like to introduce. While reviewing
  the import of bus stops around Finland, they added a direction
  tag.


My first reflex was to remove it after reviewing the stop,
  but now I start to see value in knowing in which direction the
  bus will leave. I plan to add functionality to PT_Assistant to
  calculate it automatically based on the segment of the way the
  stop is adjacent to. And in a second stage a validator rule
  that checks whether the stop is (still) on the correct side of
  the road (right or left, depending on the side of the road
  vehicles drive on)


Polyglot






 
  
  
  
El dom., 18 nov. 2018 a las 11:19, Pieter
  Colpaert ()
  escribió:

Hi Polyglot,
  
  We are in a Linked Data project with De Lijn and we’re going
  to have 
  official persistent identifiers (HTTP URIs) soon for stops
  (but also for 
  things like the routes and zones). It might be interesting to
  integrate 
  these in OSM rather than the mijnlijn.be
  one?
  
   From the moment we have an official URI strategy, I will get
  back to 
  this list in each case.
  
  Kind regards,
  
  Pieter
  
  On 18/11/18 11:10, Jakka wrote:
  > Using key as "url=""http://mijnlijn.be/303079"
rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">http://mijnlijn.be/303079   
  (<- you can test this, the url is
  >> expanded/translated to a url on www.delijn.be )
  >>
  >> For the conversion, I'd like to launch a Belgian
  "Project of the month",
  >> so the position of the stops can be verified once
  more by locals, but
  >> also shelters and bus_bays can be added and if cycle
  ways split off to
  >> go around those bus bays, that detail can be added as
  well.
  >>
  >> I know that that is what we have been doing for the
  past 5+ years, but
  >> now it would get some more dedicated focus.
  >>
  >> For several years I thought having the identifier n a
  dedicated ref:X
  >> tag and then telling everyone about how to turn it
  into such a url was
  >> the way to go,. That doesn't actually work though.
  Nobody knows how to
  >> get from the identifer to the url. Giving