Re: [Talk-ca] [Local-chapters] Statement of purpose for local chapters
Thanks John, This sounds a bit better worded than before. And looks like something that i'd recommend for Canada to start thinking about next year. I'll post on the Canada wiki a spot for a list of all those interested in taking part in the creation. Btw, im also following along on the talk-us list, as there seems to be a more active interest. Also, for example, with the latest 'data import' from France the EU, having a local chapter would make it a bit easier, so its not just 1 person making the decisions of what tags to use. Where as, for the Canada CanVec data import (im working on), if it was an 'OSM Canada Foundation' decision to designate myself as the primary decision maker, then it would be a bit more democratic that way. Fortunataly, the process im going through is a 'data conversion' where i make the .osm files available, rather than 'blanket importing myself' i think its a good work-around, and should be adopted for other imports. OTOH, So having me 'designated' might be able to permit me to 'blanket-import', ONLY if the local foundation voted for it. Cheers, Sam On 9/20/09, John Smith deltafoxtrot...@gmail.com wrote: I borrowed and extended the Australian Wikimedia chapter's statement of purpose, I thought others might find it useful as well. Statement of Purpose OpenStreetMap Australia Inc. is an independent, not-for-profit organisation, whose primary aim is to promote equal access and the opportunity to participate in the collaborative creation of Free Geospatial Data, especially data relating directly within the borders of Australia. The purpose of the organisation is to: 1. organise and participate in educational and social events that promote the development of Free Geospatial Data and related tools to add, edit and manipulate geospatial data. 2. increase public awareness of the OpenStreetMap Foundation. 3. facilitate participation in the projects hosted by the OpenStreetMap Foundation (OSM-F) 4. develop resources to assist Australians in the creation and maintenance of Free Geospatial Data Free Geospatial Data is geospatial data which can be freely studied, applied, copied and/or modified, by anyone, for any purpose. See freedomdefined.org/Definition for a more detailed definition. OpenStreetMap Foundation is a non-profit organisation incorporated in the UK. It is the service provider of the openstreetmap projects listed in full on the official OpenStreetMap Foundation site, the most prominent being OpenStreetMap.org. ___ Local-chapters mailing list local-chapt...@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/local-chapters -- Twitter: @Acrosscanada Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/sam.vekemans ___ Talk-ca mailing list Talk-ca@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ca
Re: [Talk-ca] [Local-chapters] Statement of purpose for local chapters
Re: talk-us discussion Having 1 member living in the state of incorporation is key, and 20 members i nice to have. There is a need to search internally to find mappers who are also lawyers and have experience setting up non-profits. Also, phone teleconference works, provided people know about it, and what # to call :-) I'd (really) recommend setting up a talk-nz and a talk-au list with osm.org so that everyone is on board and on the same page. (im on the other lists and can see that there is a rift, or maybe its just me :) In Canada we have the OSGeoBC Ottawa Quebec list, where some are OSMrs, we all need to be on the same page :) re: big .osm files I need to than Ian Dees (again) because since SHP-to-osm-5.0.jar you can add the -maxnodes 2000 switch where it will make nice small .osm0 .osm1 .osm2 .osm3 etc. files that can be happely imported with JOSM. Hope that helps, Sam On 9/21/09, John Smith deltafoxtrot...@gmail.com wrote: 2009/9/21 Sam Vekemans acrosscanadatra...@gmail.com: Thanks John, This sounds a bit better worded than before. And looks like something that i'd recommend for Canada to start thinking about next year. We're starting to come up with ideas where a local non-profit is essential, fund raising for sat imagery etc, the draft stuff for local chapters that already exist isn't final and who knows how long it will take to finalise the new local chapters stuff so we're most likely going to incorporate sooner rather than later as it is hindering our progress. You are welcome to borrow from the rest of the document we've cooked up so far, not sure how much use it will be to you or most others as it's essentially the model rules the NSW state govt publishes modified with a statement of purpose etc. https://docs.google.com/Doc?docid=0AZf0jIYShBc0ZGNicXR6OXZfMGdoOGsycGZihl=en Btw, im also following along on the talk-us list, as there seems to be a more active interest. Any chance of a summary so we don't have to reinvent the wheel where possible? Fortunataly, the process im going through is a 'data conversion' where i make the .osm files available, rather than 'blanket importing myself' i think its a good work-around, and should be adopted for other imports. This is what happened with Aussie post codes, except a couple of them are exceptionally large 40,000 points and so you can't easily do much with them in JOSM. -- Twitter: @Acrosscanada Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/sam.vekemans ___ Talk-ca mailing list Talk-ca@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ca
[Talk-ca] canvec2osm v0.9.1 sample areas ready
Hi all, I'm happy to report that all there are now a bunch of areas available to load and copy over to OSM ... and check for errors. http://www.inthosedays.com/acrosscanadatrails/openstreetmap/ - 011 area/http://www.inthosedays.com/acrosscanadatrails/openstreetmap/011%20area/ - 021 area/http://www.inthosedays.com/acrosscanadatrails/openstreetmap/021%20area/ - 030 area/http://www.inthosedays.com/acrosscanadatrails/openstreetmap/030%20area/ - 031 area/http://www.inthosedays.com/acrosscanadatrails/openstreetmap/031%20area/ - 040 area/http://www.inthosedays.com/acrosscanadatrails/openstreetmap/040%20area/ - 062 area/http://www.inthosedays.com/acrosscanadatrails/openstreetmap/062%20area/ - 092 area vancouver island lower mainland/http://www.inthosedays.com/acrosscanadatrails/openstreetmap/092%20area%20vancouver%20island%20lower%20mainland/ - The details are all available on the Canada Data Import Chart, so please indicate on there what files your working on copying over, so then everyone knows who is doing what :-) http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=0Am70fsptsPF2dG1ZN1YwMmZCVDhDOHZpbUNmOGlvWGchl=en If you dont already have editing access, just ask. And so if you have any tile ares that you would like converted, just ask and i'll put it next on my list. :) I would recommend just opening up the .osm.zip file and copying over what you like. I would keep in mind however, that the point of making these files available is to FIND BUGS. 'cause as soon as one is found, all the other files that went through the conversion script will be OLD... :-( Version 0.9.0 doesnt contain the README.txt file, but version 0.9.1 does. You can read it here http://www.inthosedays.com/acrosscanadatrails/openstreetmap/canvec2osm%20conversion%20script/README.txt Cheers, Sam Twitter: @Acrosscanada Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/sam.vekemans ___ Talk-ca mailing list Talk-ca@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ca
[Talk-ca] Trans Canada Trail relation
Hi everyone, I was cleaning up some areas where the TCT shares its path with roads and other existing trails (here http://osm.org/go/ZXnePd73--, if you are interested). It appears that there used to be a relation, which was part of a mass deletion recently (http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/relation/146837). Should this relation be resurrected, a new one created, or something else? ___ Talk-ca mailing list Talk-ca@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ca
Re: [Talk-ca] canvec2osm v0.9.1 sample areas ready
On Mon, Sep 21, 2009 at 8:13 AM, Sam Vekemans acrosscanadatra...@gmail.com wrote: Hi all, I'm happy to report that all there are now a bunch of areas available to load and copy over to OSM ... and check for errors. Just having a look at Sam's converted files for 092o06 (Anvil Mountain) I see an issue that I spotted in my own converted files last night. I plan look further at the details later today but your help earlier is welcome. To see the symptoms: - load the six wooded area files into josm. - select wooded-0 as the active layer - select all object on the layer - zoom in to the four selected areas, just west of the mid-point of the tile What I see: I see four 'inner' ways selected, but not their two respective 'outer' ways. What I expected to see: I expected all members ways of the same relation to be in the same layer. josm 1788 (old) does not throw an error for this. Newer josm throws a warning relation with no outer way IIRC. I fear that this error breaks relations in a way that requires them to be manually reconstructed (if they are accepted by the API) I do not yet know if this behaviour is a function of the canvec rules files, or of shp-to-osm --maxnodes. Your thoughts? Additionally, in my converted files last night, I found that the combined wooded areas from a recent conversion did not include all of the data that was converted with older tools (shp-to-osm 0.2? and canvec rules 0.22?) I need to look into this further and will report back. Best regards, Richard ___ Talk-ca mailing list Talk-ca@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ca
Re: [Talk-ca] Trans Canada Trail relation
On Mon, Sep 21, 2009 at 8:56 AM, Adam Glauser adamglau...@gmail.com wrote: Hi everyone, I was cleaning up some areas where the TCT shares its path with roads and other existing trails (here http://osm.org/go/ZXnePd73--, if you are interested). It appears that there used to be a relation, which was part of a mass deletion recently (http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/relation/146837). Should this relation be resurrected, a new one created, or something else? Hey, Sam! Adam found something with our fingerprints on it! ;-) Adam, the history here http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/relation/146837/history shows that this was deleted deliberately by andrzej as the relation had no members. The discussion andrzej referenced in his delete comment (How very polite, by the way!) asked about the validity of relations or ways with no members as a data quality / validity question. So I think andrzej deletion should stand for now. Earlier in the history Sam (acrosscanadatrails) says I asked him to remove his earlier work. I don't recall the details of the conversation, but I probably did. That Adam found part of the relation in Ontario. Sam's earlier additions in that history discussed trail portions in BC. Sam do you recall the details? Should this relation be replaced, without members or 'fixed' with members added? Best regards, Richard ___ Talk-ca mailing list Talk-ca@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ca
Re: [Talk-ca] Nts tile names
Sam, Each CanVec tile has a date in its XML metadata (in the lineagesrcinfosrctime tag). Perhaps it might be useful. Best Regards, Brent Fraser Sam Vekemans wrote: Thanks, I even have access to it on my mobile :) 'year valid' is what we need (doesnt need to be exact). In other news, i found the pictorial representation of the country in NTS tile #'s. It'll be handy later. Great find! cheers, Sam On 9/19/09, Frank Steggink stegg...@steggink.org wrote: Sam Vekemans wrote: On Sat, Sep 19, 2009 at 8:05 PM, Frank Steggink stegg...@steggink.org mailto:stegg...@steggink.org wrote: Hi Sam, Yes, i think there is a limit to the number of rows that GoogleSpreadsheet will allow.. so im not sure how to deal with that yet. .. it's a work in progress :-) Split up per province, or per 8x4 degree sheet? By the way, I noticed you've started correcting the rows I've merged. I've completed them now. An in case you didn,'t know, here [1] is a NRCan site where you can find all tile names. Could be useful for the spreadsheet, but adding them might be a very big task, or you need to export the data from Google, and import them later ;) Not sure if that is possible. hi, can you attach the link again? I think it was missed. Cheers, Sam Oops, forgot to insert the actual link :) It's here: http://maps.nrcan.gc.ca/topo_metadata/topo_metadata_e.php Frank ___ Talk-ca mailing list Talk-ca@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ca
Re: [Talk-ca] Nts tile names
Thanks, Does anyone know how to create a little java program that can take details from the .xml file, and the .htm file and rename the folder with select details? I dont know how todo that in DOS (if its possable) either. Sam On 9/21/09, Brent Fraser bfra...@geoanalytic.com wrote: Sam, Each CanVec tile has a date in its XML metadata (in the lineagesrcinfosrctime tag). Perhaps it might be useful. Best Regards, Brent Fraser Sam Vekemans wrote: Thanks, I even have access to it on my mobile :) 'year valid' is what we need (doesnt need to be exact). In other news, i found the pictorial representation of the country in NTS tile #'s. It'll be handy later. Great find! cheers, Sam On 9/19/09, Frank Steggink stegg...@steggink.org wrote: Sam Vekemans wrote: On Sat, Sep 19, 2009 at 8:05 PM, Frank Steggink stegg...@steggink.org mailto:stegg...@steggink.org wrote: Hi Sam, Yes, i think there is a limit to the number of rows that GoogleSpreadsheet will allow.. so im not sure how to deal with that yet. .. it's a work in progress :-) Split up per province, or per 8x4 degree sheet? By the way, I noticed you've started correcting the rows I've merged. I've completed them now. An in case you didn,'t know, here [1] is a NRCan site where you can find all tile names. Could be useful for the spreadsheet, but adding them might be a very big task, or you need to export the data from Google, and import them later ;) Not sure if that is possible. hi, can you attach the link again? I think it was missed. Cheers, Sam Oops, forgot to insert the actual link :) It's here: http://maps.nrcan.gc.ca/topo_metadata/topo_metadata_e.php Frank -- Twitter: @Acrosscanada Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/sam.vekemans ___ Talk-ca mailing list Talk-ca@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ca
Re: [Talk-ca] Trans Canada Trail relation
Hi Adam, Richard, talk-ca list. cc: i...@tctrail.ca, Tim Hoskin, National Trails Coordinator for TCT, Jane Craig, Communications Coordinator for TCT, and Margaret Mofford, Secretary, Trans Canada Trail *** On Mon, Sep 21, 2009 at 8:56 AM, Adam Glauser adamglau...@gmail.com wrote: Hi everyone, I was cleaning up some areas where the TCT shares its path with roads and other existing trails (here http://osm.org/go/ZXnePd73--, if you are interested). It appears that there used to be a relation, which was part of a mass deletion recently (http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/relation/146837). Should this relation be resurrected, a new one created, or something else? Hey, Sam! Adam found something with our fingerprints on it! ;-) Adam, the history here http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/relation/146837/history shows that this was deleted deliberately by andrzej as the relation had no members. The discussion andrzej referenced in his delete comment (How very polite, by the way!) asked about the validity of relations or ways with no members as a data quality / validity question. So I think andrzej deletion should stand for now. Earlier in the history Sam (acrosscanadatrails) says I asked him to remove his earlier work. I don't recall the details of the conversation, but I probably did. That Adam found part of the relation in Ontario. Sam's earlier additions in that history discussed trail portions in BC. Sam do you recall the details? Should this relation be replaced, without members or 'fixed' with members added? Best regards, Richard ___ Talk-ca mailing list Talk-ca@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ca Ya, just list that local trail with it's local name, as a relation but as a local or regional route. You should see physical signs saying Laurel Trail and/or 'Iron Horse Trail'. Just map these 2 trails as 'routes' and if they are cycle-able, the preference is to list it as a cycle-route, in that area of the country. IMO. ... if the Trail is a 'Route' then a 'route' can go on any surface type. But the actual gravel/paved segments should be labeled as they physically are (and physically named) on the ground. No 'Trans Canada Trail' relation is needed.(until the copyright is fixed, see MEGA detail below). In Capital Region District (Victoria) the Galloping Goose is an excellent example of how to map a regional route. (note that surface is not defined, because it is mixed) http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/relation/19895 *** Thanks Adam for pointing that out. In short, I fixed up the wiki to show about Trans Canada Trail http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Trans_Canada_Trail In long, unfortunately this week is the Trans Canada Trail AGM, where i am unable to attend in person. Where my aim was to address this VERY issue. And unfortunately, (for some reason) Tim Hoskin was unable (and still is) to email me directly. (He probably did email me, but it didn't go through at his end. Actually back in May he probably emailed me, but it didn't go through. Leaving me to the assumption that my email was not received. It would have helped a great deal to have heard from him at that time, then i would have made plans to actually go to Ottawa, as i would have a 'fuller' understanding of the Trans Canada Trail and its history, where they plan on being in the future. I do have a nice LONG letter that i am thinking of sending to the Trans Canada Trail, along with my proxy vote (and voting 'no'), as i feel that the Trans Canada Trail is not providing alternate routes, and has no plans on listing the bi-pass route and temporary alternates, and is not technically navigable for 1 user, which is not what the original intention of the Trans Canada Trail is. (from my understanding). ... but i am hesitant to send it along, as i don't know if it will make a difference, and instead might just frustrate people more than I already have. Basically, what it is, is that i have a hard time understanding what this Trans Canada Trail actually IS. I cannot say that it is a bicycle route, nor can i say that it is a hiking route nor is it a snowmobile route, or a equestrian route as it is in fact a 'Greenway'. (so in short, listing it as a 'NCN' would not be correct) Here is Charles-Andre's answer to me. (which i needed clarification on), and i attached my original email to. -- Forwarded message -- From: Charles-Andre Roy ca...@tctrail.ca Date: Thu, Jul 16, 2009 at 10:08 AM Subject: RE: Across Canada Trails - or TCT 'route' across Canada To: Sam Vekemans acrosscanadatra...@gmail.com Hi again Sam, For your question about our vision for the trail is quite simple. We are focusing on multi-purpose greenway trail that support some combination of walking/hiking, cycling, horseback riding, skiing, canoe and snowmobiling wherever possible and appropriate. Our objective is to link all across
Re: [Talk-ca] Feature Request: search source key/value pairs
On Mon, Sep 21, 2009 at 2:36 PM, Ian Dees ian.d...@gmail.com wrote: On Mon, Sep 21, 2009 at 4:30 PM, Sam Vekemans acrosscanadatra...@gmail.com wrote: Hi, I don't know if its technically possible, but it would be great if there was a toggle switch that could include only select source key/value pairs, ie. in the BS_1250009_0_Navigational_aidRULES.txt dataset, having it that it would only create an .osm file for the 'navigational light' source key= CODE, value=1250020 so then the script would run through the rules.txt file and would only look at the above, CODE/value, and place man_made=lighthouse, as the only feature in the .osm file and omit the rest. (omitting the values 1250030 and 1250010) Sorry, I'm not sure how to submit a ticket on the redmine website yet. Click the New Issue link at http://redmine.yellowbkpk.com/projects/show/geo If not technically possible, then maybe it's possible with an add-on java .jar program? This is the idea behind the -t option. Make your rules.txt file only include the tags you want (in this case, just the navigational light), then run shp-to-osm with the -t option. This will only include the primitives that are tagged in the output OSM file(s). YES, i get it :-) Sorry, a little daft, but it took a moment to click in. That's simply BRILLIANT!!!. And for the imports list talk-ca list. This change will require a slight 'lengthening' of the number of Rules.txt file in the folder, i AM prepared to handle it all myself, but if anyone wants to help (Richard) please let me know what rules.txt file you want to work on. And everyone else, what features do you want to see shown as independent .osm files? ... and the fixing process is rather easy. It just requires the changing of the details in the column of the CanVec Map features chart, to indicate the new filename of the rules.txt file. http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=0Am70fsptsPF2clAwc29KaXlGaGFwS1piUkxZWjc0ekEhl=en Thanks again, Cheers, Sam ___ Talk-ca mailing list Talk-ca@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ca
Re: [Talk-ca] Nts tile names
Hi Again, Actually, i think with my latest modifications to the CanVec data status import chart, As long as the folder where these .osm.zip files can be found is listed, the actual file name is irrelevant. Especially if these zip files are stored on different servers, as long as the link still works it should be fine. I think all the relevant details, are already listed in the chart. And for the big (always pressing) question about how to deal with updates of canvec data. I think that it would just be a matter of local preference. I will be able to (and planning on) creating a more smarter script that will be able to look at the download directory and check the date but for now, this manual way is fine :-) (does anyone know how todo that? (not using ibuntu) :) Cheers, Sam Twitter: @Acrosscanada Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/sam.vekemans On Mon, Sep 21, 2009 at 1:25 PM, Sam Vekemans acrosscanadatra...@gmail.comwrote: Thanks, Does anyone know how to create a little java program that can take details from the .xml file, and the .htm file and rename the folder with select details? I dont know how todo that in DOS (if its possable) either. Sam On 9/21/09, Brent Fraser bfra...@geoanalytic.com wrote: Sam, Each CanVec tile has a date in its XML metadata (in the lineagesrcinfosrctime tag). Perhaps it might be useful. Best Regards, Brent Fraser Sam Vekemans wrote: Thanks, I even have access to it on my mobile :) 'year valid' is what we need (doesnt need to be exact). In other news, i found the pictorial representation of the country in NTS tile #'s. It'll be handy later. Great find! cheers, Sam On 9/19/09, Frank Steggink stegg...@steggink.org wrote: Sam Vekemans wrote: On Sat, Sep 19, 2009 at 8:05 PM, Frank Steggink stegg...@steggink.org mailto:stegg...@steggink.org wrote: Hi Sam, Yes, i think there is a limit to the number of rows that GoogleSpreadsheet will allow.. so im not sure how to deal with that yet. .. it's a work in progress :-) Split up per province, or per 8x4 degree sheet? By the way, I noticed you've started correcting the rows I've merged. I've completed them now. An in case you didn,'t know, here [1] is a NRCan site where you can find all tile names. Could be useful for the spreadsheet, but adding them might be a very big task, or you need to export the data from Google, and import them later ;) Not sure if that is possible. hi, can you attach the link again? I think it was missed. Cheers, Sam Oops, forgot to insert the actual link :) It's here: http://maps.nrcan.gc.ca/topo_metadata/topo_metadata_e.php Frank -- Twitter: @Acrosscanada Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/sam.vekemans ___ Talk-ca mailing list Talk-ca@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ca
Re: [Talk-ca] Trans Canada Trail relation
Response inline. On Mon, Sep 21, 2009 at 5:15 PM, Sam Vekemans acrosscanadatra...@gmail.com wrote: Ya, just list that local trail with it's local name, as a relation but as a local or regional route. You should see physical signs saying Laurel Trail and/or 'Iron Horse Trail'. Just map these 2 trails as 'routes' and if they are cycle-able, the preference is to list it as a cycle-route, in that area of the country. IMO. ... if the Trail is a 'Route' then a 'route' can go on any surface type. But the actual gravel/paved segments should be labeled as they physically are (and physically named) on the ground. Okay, that part make sense to me, and that's what I've been (slowly) doing for the Avon Trail, as I hike/bike parts of it. (http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/relation/143047) As for the Trans Canada Trail aspect: On Mon, Sep 21, 2009 at 9:13 AM, Richard Weait rich...@weait.com wrote: On Mon, Sep 21, 2009 at 8:56 AM, Adam Glauser adamglau...@gmail.com wrote: I was cleaning up some areas where the TCT shares its path with roads and other existing trails (here http://osm.org/go/ZXnePd73--, if you are interested). It appears that there used to be a relation, which was part of a mass deletion recently (http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/relation/146837). Should this relation be resurrected, a new one created, or something else? Hey, Sam! Adam found something with our fingerprints on it! ;-) Adam, the history here http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/relation/146837/history shows that this was deleted deliberately by andrzej as the relation had no members. [...] Earlier in the history Sam (acrosscanadatrails) says I asked him to remove his earlier work. I don't recall the details of the conversation, but I probably did. That Adam found part of the relation in Ontario. Sam's earlier additions in that history discussed trail portions in BC. Sam do you recall the details? Should this relation be replaced, without members or 'fixed' with members added? On Mon, Sep 21, 2009 at 5:15 PM, Sam Vekemans acrosscanadatra...@gmail.com wrote: No 'Trans Canada Trail' relation is needed. (until the copyright is fixed, see MEGA detail below). Okay, I had some trouble following the MEGA detail. I understand the bit about not really being able to tag a TCT relation as 'route=hiking' or 'route=cycling', as it is a mixed use trail, with different uses in different parts. I'm sure we can come up with some way of overcoming that obstacle. I think that the copyright to which Sam refers, and the earlier discussion Richard mentioned are related, as seen in this thread (http://www.mail-archive.com/talk-ca@openstreetmap.org/msg01053.html). If I follow that correctly, the .gpx traces from www.tctrail.ca are copyrighted and should not be used to add to OSM. However, my own surveys should be perfectly fine, unless I'm missing something. Given that I'm not referring to copyrighted data, and aside from the question about how to tag the relation, is there some other problem with highlighting the trails/roads/etc. that comprise the TCT in my area? ___ Talk-ca mailing list Talk-ca@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ca
