Re: [Talk-ca] Highways in Yukon
OK, so I came into some free time and completed the tracing of the Dempster Highway into OSM. Some points: 1) I have tagged it as a primary highway. It is, after all, called the Dempster Highway. Also, it is the only ground link to Inuvik, thus fairly important 2) I have tagged the surface as gravel. 3) I came across an unfinished Dempster Highway portion in Northern Yukon. This was tagged as a tertiary highway, and as part of the Trans-Canada Trail (ncn and ncn_ref attributes). I deleted the portions for which I had accurate GPS traces, and merged the two somewhere inside of NT, changing the highway to primary. 4) The entire Dempster Highway is now tagged as a Trans-Canada Trail. 5) I've also tagged as bicycle=yes, as a) I saw many cyclists and b) the tertiary route I came across also had this! I'll be adding in further POI's along the route when I can extract my diary files, and going on to update the rest of what we travelled in the summer. Question: Is there a Trans-Canada Trail relation I should have used? Couldn't find one... Tim -Original Message- From: James Ewen ve6...@gmail.com To: Talk-CA OpenStreetMap talk-ca@openstreetmap.org Subject: Re: [Talk-ca] Highways in Yukon Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2010 19:59:25 -0700 On Thu, Mar 11, 2010 at 7:18 PM, Richard Weait rich...@weait.com wrote: One has to think about how the final map is going to be displayed. Now that is a little close to tagging for the renderer. Yes, but I've been chastised about that statement before... we are not tagging incorrectly to simply work around the renderer rules, but rather tagging as to road classification importance, which the renderer simply renders differently. If the data stored in the OSM database is not useful to the user, then it may as well not be included. Back to my GPS... the major roads in the TeleAtlas database cause routing problems. The routing routine will take me on a 350 km detour just to stay on highways, rather than a 200 km direct route on what it considers a major road. These major roads are indistinguishable from the highways as far as physical features are concerned. Speed limits are also identical. I'd prefer to have these major roads promoted to the same classification as the highways (in fact they are highways of the same classification as the others)... as a side effect, the renderer in the GPS would end up showing these roads that were previously not visible. Just because the renderer changes the display doesn't mean that I am specifically trying to misrepresent the road for the renderer. The renderers take the tags we use into account when deciding on how to display a way, so it is only appropriate that we also take into account how the renderer will display the tags we are deciding to use. It would be inappropriate to tag a stream as a coastline just to get it to show up on a wide area map... it is however appropriate in my opinion to tag an important major road (read only road) across a large expanse of territory at an appropriate classification level, despite what the rendering engines will do with it. The database and renderers are pretty much married to each other. Without the database, the renderers are useless. Without the renderers, it's pretty hard to visualize the data. James VE6SRV ___ Talk-ca mailing list Talk-ca@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ca ___ Talk-ca mailing list Talk-ca@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ca
Re: [Talk-ca] Highways in Yukon
Thanks Sam: some thoughts below... The Dempster Highway portion that physically has the 'TCT logo' needs to have a relation route. Eeerm, OK, didn't really clock many of those logos, and especially not where they started and ended! However, it CAN be tagged as a 'rcn bicycle route' because in that province it is a 'regional cycle route'. If it is not provincially designated 'state=proposed' works just fine. And even route=ncn state=proposed would also work. I'll have to look into that to see what it is designated as. On a national scale, the TCT is not a 'National Cycle Trail' but a 'mixed use greenway with different designated uses' (that in turn, makes me pull my hair out) Gotta love Canada! Also, the entire highway should be tagged with a relation route, for its highway designation. Not sure I understand this - so just setting highway=primary and name=Demspter Highway isn't enough? (I'm fairly new at this, so go easy...!) The actual name of the road should not say 'Trans Canada Trail'. Luckily, it says Dempster Highway! When your done marking where where the physical road is, please let me know, then we can figure out what the best answer is. :) Well, I'm done marking the physical route, so this can progress. During the trip I kept a timed log of 'select' (i.e. when I remembered or had access to the laptop) POI's, including some laybys, campgrounds etc. I'll be adding those later once I find a good way of matching those up with the GPX track. Overall, my aim is to get the entire network that is bicycle=yes as well as foot=yes for the entire country, so at a minimum, the actual road/track/path/footway/cycleway is actually mapped first. Then we can muck about with relations labels at a later date. So ya, maybe the better answer is to say 'yup, sure You are local expert, since i have never been there, its not my place to say how it should be tagged'. I definitely saw cyclists on there, at all points of the journey. I saw no walkers, but you could walk it if you wanted! On 3/17/10, Tim Francois sk1pp...@yahoo.co.uk wrote: OK, so I came into some free time and completed the tracing of the Dempster Highway into OSM. Some points: 1) I have tagged it as a primary highway. It is, after all, called the Dempster Highway. Also, it is the only ground link to Inuvik, thus fairly important 2) I have tagged the surface as gravel. 3) I came across an unfinished Dempster Highway portion in Northern Yukon. This was tagged as a tertiary highway, and as part of the Trans-Canada Trail (ncn and ncn_ref attributes). I deleted the portions for which I had accurate GPS traces, and merged the two somewhere inside of NT, changing the highway to primary. 4) The entire Dempster Highway is now tagged as a Trans-Canada Trail. 5) I've also tagged as bicycle=yes, as a) I saw many cyclists and b) the tertiary route I came across also had this! I'll be adding in further POI's along the route when I can extract my diary files, and going on to update the rest of what we travelled in the summer. Question: Is there a Trans-Canada Trail relation I should have used? Couldn't find one... Tim -Original Message- From: James Ewen ve6...@gmail.com To: Talk-CA OpenStreetMap talk-ca@openstreetmap.org Subject: Re: [Talk-ca] Highways in Yukon Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2010 19:59:25 -0700 On Thu, Mar 11, 2010 at 7:18 PM, Richard Weait rich...@weait.com wrote: One has to think about how the final map is going to be displayed. Now that is a little close to tagging for the renderer. Yes, but I've been chastised about that statement before... we are not tagging incorrectly to simply work around the renderer rules, but rather tagging as to road classification importance, which the renderer simply renders differently. If the data stored in the OSM database is not useful to the user, then it may as well not be included. Back to my GPS... the major roads in the TeleAtlas database cause routing problems. The routing routine will take me on a 350 km detour just to stay on highways, rather than a 200 km direct route on what it considers a major road. These major roads are indistinguishable from the highways as far as physical features are concerned. Speed limits are also identical. I'd prefer to have these major roads promoted to the same classification as the highways (in fact they are highways of the same classification as the others)... as a side effect, the renderer in the GPS would end up showing these roads that were previously not visible. Just because the renderer changes the display doesn't mean that I am specifically trying to misrepresent the road for the renderer. The renderers take the tags we use into account when deciding on how to display a way, so it is only appropriate that we also take into account how the renderer will display the tags we are deciding to use. It would be inappropriate to tag a stream as a coastline just to get it to show up
Re: [Talk-ca] call for help, importing roads
Hi, I was kind of hoping someone more knowledgeable in GIS programming would've responded first for the following reasons: geobase2osm.py is an integral part of the whole roadmatching process for Canada, and it's a very Canadian-specific script (there are chunks of code that deal with naming of major trunks on a province-by-province basis using if-else programming). Also, I don't have much experience programming GIS stuff. For example, the Canadian way of doing this uses EPSG 3348 for projection [1]. I did some Google searching, and it looks like you would want to use EPSG 4191 for the Albania area (see [2]), but 2462 might also the one you want to use ([3], although it looks like you get weird projected bounds with it). I don't know why this reprojection is really even necessary. When you look at EPSG 3348 (the Canadian one), the projected bounds are really weird there as well, so maybe it has to be done just to match up with NRN. If the Albania dataset is already in Lat/Long and 4191 is in Lat/Long and OSM is in Lat/Long, maybe you don't need to reproject at all? Someone with more GIS knowledge should know. You'll also want a script to automatically convert various attributes in the shp file to tags that are used by OSM. For example, I opened up the Roads_OSM.shp file in OpenJUMP (just the way it is, no changes or reprojections or anything), and I see that one road has the following properties: ID: 175879.0 Type: Well-Kept Gravel Road Category: 2 Cat2: 20 Shape_Leng: 0.0 Name: Shape_Le_1: 774.851 ET_ID: 167693 Most of these you probably won't care about, but Type: Well-Kept Gravel Road should be converted to surface=gravel; and highway=unclassified or residential or track=* depending on what the Category: 2 and Cat2: 20 mean. Another road has Type: Dwelling Area Road, which would probably be highway=residential; I've also seen Type: Village Road, Type: Railway, Type: Seasonal Road, and Type: National Asphalted Road. You can see where geobase2osm.py makes similar mappings for Canada, by looking at lines 63 to 77 in geobase2osm.py [4]. None of the roads I sampled had names associated with them (even the national highway, the name was blank). You'll probably have to match up road names to the roads using one of the other data sets? I would like to help out more, but I'm afraid I don't have the experience. I could lend a hand in modifying the SQL tables and geobase2osm.py, but I would be of limited help there, and I haven't a clue how you would get road names imported. You'll want more expertise help in getting the proper toolchain. [1] http://spatialreference.org/ref/epsg/3348/ [2] http://spatialreference.org/ref/epsg/4191/ [3] http://spatialreference.org/ref/epsg/2462/ [4] http://svn.openstreetmap.org/applications/utils/import/geobase2osm/geobase2osm.py Adam On Wed, Mar 17, 2010 at 12:31 PM, Sam Vekemans acrosscanadatra...@gmail.com wrote: Hi Adam, James is looking to use RoadMatcher, i know its on the wiki, but that page needs to be fixed. Would you be able to explain it? Personally, i now favour tracing WMS, but for massive areas RoadMatcher is the way to go :-) Also, Robert (Bob) Shand from PEI is currently Itching to also learn how its done. Cheers, Sam -- Forwarded message -- From: Michael Barabanov michael.baraba...@gmail.com Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2010 12:13:39 -0700 Subject: Re: [Talk-ca] call for help, importing roads To: jamesmikedup...@googlemail.com jamesmikedup...@googlemail.com Cc: talk-ca@openstreetmap.org Sounds like you just need to convert SHP to OSM. Then you can upload from JOSM. There's a script here (though I haven't tried it): http://redmine.yellowbkpk.com/projects/list_files/geo On Mon, Mar 15, 2010 at 12:48 PM, jamesmikedup...@googlemail.com jamesmikedup...@googlemail.com wrote: Hi, I have been talking to Sam V. who mentioned that you guys are experts in openjump for road importing. before I dig too deep into this myself, let me ask if anyone can help me with my current problem: I have these files from a public domain source, projected into Lat/Lon http://xhema.flossk.org:8080/mapdata/03/MapAction/tpginc/ [image: [ ]] LL_Roads_OSM.dbf http://xhema.flossk.org:8080/mapdata/03/MapAction/tpginc/LL_Roads_OSM.dbf 05-Mar-2010 07:48 53M [image: [ ]]LL_Roads_OSM.prj http://xhema.flossk.org:8080/mapdata/03/MapAction/tpginc/LL_Roads_OSM.prj05-Mar-2010 07:48 143 [image: [ ]]LL_Roads_OSM.shp http://xhema.flossk.org:8080/mapdata/03/MapAction/tpginc/LL_Roads_OSM.shp05-Mar-2010 07:48 35M [image: [ ]]LL_Roads_OSM.shx http://xhema.flossk.org:8080/mapdata/03/MapAction/tpginc/LL_Roads_OSM.shx05-Mar-2010 07:48 1.5M They are from http://tpginc.net/gis/albania/albania.php we would like to find the new roads that are not in OSM and import them. Can anyone help? can you tell me exactly what software to install, I am a bit confused my the many pages and broken links I found for jump. thanks, mike
Re: [Talk-ca] Ontario Provincial Parks : 6 categories
On Wed, Mar 17, 2010 at 9:42 AM, Sam Vekemans acrosscanadatra...@gmail.com wrote: Hi all, I'm taking a look at the Ontario Provincial Parks dataset, Link? ___ Talk-ca mailing list Talk-ca@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ca
Re: [Talk-ca] Ontario Provincial Parks : 6 categories
I just updated it... feel free to wiki-fiddle away :-) http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Land_Information_Ontario Im currently working on tracing the trails from the Far north (the Voyageur trail segments) from the WMS server. but i upload/download frequently, so i'll see if anyone else is working on it. Since i dont have ibuntu running, the conversion of shp files will take a bit longer to get WMS tiles available. Cheers, Sam On Wed, Mar 17, 2010 at 5:42 PM, Richard Weait rich...@weait.com wrote: On Wed, Mar 17, 2010 at 9:42 AM, Sam Vekemans acrosscanadatra...@gmail.com wrote: Hi all, I'm taking a look at the Ontario Provincial Parks dataset, Link? ___ Talk-ca mailing list Talk-ca@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ca
