Re: [Talk-ca] Gouvernement du Québec et Municipalités : Nouveau portail et licence ouverte

[Bruno Remy]

Bonjour à tous,

La lecture des informations de la page wiki des imports (
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Import/ODbL_Compatibility) , confirme
que les variantes CC-by-SA ou CC-by-NC ou de la licence CC 4.0  sont
incompatibles ODbL .

Par contre la licence internationale CC-by est compatible sous réserve de
mention de la source dans le profil du compte importateur. Je cite:

"not OK but fixable : is ODbL compatible if rights holder(s) explicitly
states in writing that credit on the Contributors
 page is sufficient to
fulfill attribution requirements including downstream use in works derived
from OSM".

Si cette interprétation est bonne, croyez-vous possible, et approuvez-vous
l'import d'autres jeux de données du portail https://www.donneesquebec.ca/
sous réserve que pour chaque jeu la licence soit "CC-by" et non pas
"CC-by-SA ou CC-by-NC" ?


Bruno



Le 20 avril 2016 à 21:13, Bruno Remy  a écrit :

> Bonjour  à tous,
>
>
> Concernant la notion d'attribution des licences, n'y a-t-il pas un
> consensus pour rattacher cette d'attribution à la mention dans la page
> https://www.openstreetmap.org/copyright ?
>
> On y retrouve d'ailleurs* GeoBase*®, *GeoGratis* (© Département des
> Ressources naturelles du Canada), *CanVec* (© Département des Ressources
> naturelles du Canada) et *StatCan* (Division Géographie, Statistiques du
> Canada).
>
> Rajouter dans cette liste les institutions publiques canadiennes
> (provinciales ou municipales) qui publient des jeux de données avec la
> licence CC4 ne serait-il pas suffisant?
>
>
> Bruno
>
>
> Le 6 avril 2016 à 16:23, James  a écrit :
>
>> Scuse j'ai oublié le ne et le pas
>> On Apr 6, 2016 3:33 PM, "Charles Basenga Kiyanda" <
>> perso...@charleskiyanda.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Le lien fourni dit que les licenses ODC-ODbl-1.0 et CC-BY-4.0 sont
>>> INcompatibles. Est-ce que j'ai mal lu l'information?
>>>
>>> Charles
>>>
>>> On 04/06/2016 03:13 PM, James wrote:
>>> > Les licenses ODC-ODbL-1.0 et CC-BY-4.0 sont compatibles.
>>> > http://clipol.org/licences/70?tab=licence_compatibility
>>> >
>>> > 2016-04-06 13:49 GMT-04:00 Charles Basenga Kiyanda
>>> > >:
>>> >
>>> > Ce que je comprends, toutefois, c'est que c'est la clause
>>> > d'attribution
>>> > qui est problématique avec les licences CC, quand on essaye
>>> d'intégrer
>>> > avec l'odbl. La solution que nous avons privilégiée avec la ville
>>> de
>>> > Montréal (et qui je crois est acceptée par la communauté OSM) c'est
>>> > d'obtenir une confirmation (la notre est par courriel, idéalement
>>> la
>>> > confirmation serait aussi sur le site du fournisseur de données)
>>> > que "le
>>> > fournisseur des données considère que l'attribution sur la page du
>>> > wiki
>>> > d'openstreetmap remplit les obligations détaillées dans la clause
>>> > d'attribution de la licence CC pour fin d'inclusion des données
>>> sous
>>> > licence odbl." (Ou quelque chose du genre...)
>>> >
>>> > Bref, si je comprends bien, CC-by-SA ou CC-by-NC ou CC-by auraient
>>> > toutes le même problème. Au sens strict de la clause d'attribution
>>> des
>>> > licences CC, OSM serait tenu de mentionner l'origine des données
>>> avec
>>> > les données elles-mêmes et sur toutes les tuiles, ce qu'on ne fait
>>> > pas.
>>> >
>>> > Charles
>>> >
>>> > On 04/05/2016 06:33 PM, Pierre Béland wrote:
>>> > > Bonjour Sébastien,
>>> > >
>>> > > j'ai mal recopié l'info et n'ai pas vu la subtilité SA ou NC. En
>>> > > relisant sur le site, il semble bien que ce soit la licence CC-by
>>> > > telle que promoise en février 2014.
>>> > >
>>> > > Avec cette l'annonce du nouveau site de données ouvertes
>>> > aujourd'hui,
>>> > > je n'ai pas vu de menton de la licence. Cependant elle est
>>> spécifiée
>>> > > sur le site et avec chaque jeu de données.
>>> > >
>>> > > Voici le lien vers la licence. On indique 6 variantes possibles.
>>> > > https://www.donneesquebec.ca/fr/licence/#cc-by
>>> > >
>>> > > La mention de la licence lors du téléchargement d'un jeu de
>>> > données est
>>> > > Licence Creative Commons - Attribution 4.0
>>> > >  [Open Data]
>>> > > 
>>> > >
>>> > > Voir par exemple
>>> > >
>>> https://www.donneesquebec.ca/recherche/fr/dataset/liaison-maritime
>>> > >
>>> > > Il faudra effectivement s'assurer que c'est bien la licence
>>> > cc-by qui
>>> > > s'applique.
>>> > >
>>> > > Pierre
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>> >
>>>  
>>> > > *De :* Sebastien Duthil >> >>
>>> > > *À :* 

Re: [Talk-ca] New project update

[john whelan]

Since you're looking to combine data from different sources I assume you
know about the TB standards for addresses?  I think they're mentioned
here:  http://www.tbs-sct.gc.ca/pol/doc-eng.aspx?id=16553

I'm not sure how those standards would map to OSM and if all the elements
are there.

Apols to the ca-talk this is probably more open data than anything else.

Cheerio John

On 22 April 2016 at 10:52, Ellefsen, Bjenk (STATCAN) <
bjenk.ellef...@canada.ca> wrote:

> Kevin,
>
>
>
> We would probably break it down in smaller chunks. We were thinking of a
> possible pilot with specific areas.
>
> A tasking manager would be very helpful in we do it this way.
>
>
>
> Bjenk
>
>
>
> *From:* Kevin Farrugia [mailto:kevinfarru...@gmail.com]
> *Sent:* April-21-16 12:00 PM
> *To:* Ellefsen, Bjenk (STATCAN) 
> *Cc:* Talk-CA OpenStreetMap 
> *Subject:* Re: [Talk-ca] New project update
>
>
>
> Hi Bjenk,
>
> What type of information are you looking to add about buildings? Some data
> belongs in OSM while other attributes might be extraneous. Other people on
> this list will also add their opinion on this issue I'm sure. If it's
> something being done en masse, it's always best to take an abundance of
> caution to not upset people at the errors that might crop up.
>
> If you'd like to break work down into smaller chunks, there are tasking
> managers available (including a Canada specific one) that help out with
> manual tasks.
>
> -Kevin
>
> On Apr 21, 2016 11:37 AM, "Ellefsen, Bjenk (STATCAN)" <
> bjenk.ellef...@canada.ca> wrote:
>
> Hello everyone,
>
>
>
> Basically, what we would like to do is define a project for OSM to collect
> information about non-residential buildings.
>
> We would like to popose a list of what would be collected. We were
> thinking of identifying specific areas to start with.
>
>
>
> Cheers,
>
>
>
> Bjenk Ellefsen, PhD
>
>
>
> Center for Special Business Projects | Centre des Projets Spéciaux sur les
> entreprises
>
> Statistics Canada | Statistiques Canada
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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>
>
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Re: [Talk-ca] New project update

[Kevin Farrugia]

1) this would be inherent in the map since we'd be mapping it
2) again, this would be inherent in the map, although I wouldn't put a
measurement value in the attributes as this can be calculated outside of OSM
3) would probably be a hard to get for many buildings, but there are tags
around for this. I know the Long Form/NHS captures housing age, but this is
only done for residential buildings, correct?
4) this can be tagged, such as building=industrial or building=commercial
5) this is a simple tag - building:levels. There is also a height tag,
where the height is logged in metres.
6) hard-ish depending on the location and on the ground surveyors. In
cities that have open data compatible with OSM that post address points it
can be armchair mapped. For other places you'd need to go out and get those
addresses. Postal codes are in OSM but we can't bulk load them from
anywhere because Canada Post guards their copyright very aggressively. If
StatsCan has surveyors out for various surveys, they could easily collect
address information and send it back for input.
On Apr 22, 2016 11:03 AM, "John Whelan"  wrote:

>
>
> Ellefsen, Bjenk (STATCAN) wrote:
>
>> 1. precise location (coordinates, polygon)
>> 2. footprint, size
>> 3. year of construction
>> 4. activities (use)
>> 5. number of floors above ground
>> 6. address (number, street, postal code)
>>
>
> I think the first step might be to identify which tags are either in map
> features or tag info that align with the data you'd like to collect.
>
> Then scan a sample of the data base to see how many are there.  There
> maybe other tags that have the information.  That needs to be untangled.
>
> Remember you're after standard ways of doing things and that traditionally
> OSM has not been heavily standarised.  Which has been one of its strengths.
>
> Most mapping in OSM is done for a purpose, adding cycle paths etc.
>
> Maintaining store names in malls is problematic for us currently.  The
> turnover is too high.
>
> The year of construction is difficult to determine from a visual
> inspection which is how OSM tends to operate.  The days of the year of
> construction of the building being set in stone over the front door seem to
> have vanished.
>
> Post Code is especially difficult, the Post Office clings to the data.
>
> Street names can be interesting, in Ottawa about twenty plus change their
> name each year by the city or are found to have the wrong name on them.  So
> no one has a open definitive set.  City of Ottawa data isn't open enough
> for us.
>
> You may need to resort to Tiles which means something along the lines of
> HOT and finding volunteers to do this.  They will need very clear
> instructions.
>
> Building footprint when done with the building tool in JOSM is usually
> fairly good but we have found new mappers using iD can be problematical in
> HOT mapping.
>
> Cheerio John
>
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Re: [Talk-ca] New project update

[John Whelan]

Ellefsen, Bjenk (STATCAN) wrote:

1. precise location (coordinates, polygon)
2. footprint, size
3. year of construction
4. activities (use)
5. number of floors above ground
6. address (number, street, postal code)


I think the first step might be to identify which tags are either in map 
features or tag info that align with the data you'd like to collect.


Then scan a sample of the data base to see how many are there.  There 
maybe other tags that have the information.  That needs to be untangled.


Remember you're after standard ways of doing things and that 
traditionally OSM has not been heavily standarised.  Which has been one 
of its strengths.


Most mapping in OSM is done for a purpose, adding cycle paths etc.

Maintaining store names in malls is problematic for us currently.  The 
turnover is too high.


The year of construction is difficult to determine from a visual 
inspection which is how OSM tends to operate.  The days of the year of 
construction of the building being set in stone over the front door seem 
to have vanished.


Post Code is especially difficult, the Post Office clings to the data.

Street names can be interesting, in Ottawa about twenty plus change 
their name each year by the city or are found to have the wrong name on 
them.  So no one has a open definitive set.  City of Ottawa data isn't 
open enough for us.


You may need to resort to Tiles which means something along the lines of 
HOT and finding volunteers to do this.  They will need very clear 
instructions.


Building footprint when done with the building tool in JOSM is usually 
fairly good but we have found new mappers using iD can be problematical 
in HOT mapping.


Cheerio John

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Re: [Talk-ca] New project update

[Ellefsen, Bjenk (STATCAN)]

Kevin,

We would probably break it down in smaller chunks. We were thinking of a 
possible pilot with specific areas.
A tasking manager would be very helpful in we do it this way.

Bjenk

From: Kevin Farrugia [mailto:kevinfarru...@gmail.com]
Sent: April-21-16 12:00 PM
To: Ellefsen, Bjenk (STATCAN) 
Cc: Talk-CA OpenStreetMap 
Subject: Re: [Talk-ca] New project update


Hi Bjenk,

What type of information are you looking to add about buildings? Some data 
belongs in OSM while other attributes might be extraneous. Other people on this 
list will also add their opinion on this issue I'm sure. If it's something 
being done en masse, it's always best to take an abundance of caution to not 
upset people at the errors that might crop up.

If you'd like to break work down into smaller chunks, there are tasking 
managers available (including a Canada specific one) that help out with manual 
tasks.

-Kevin
On Apr 21, 2016 11:37 AM, "Ellefsen, Bjenk (STATCAN)" 
> wrote:
Hello everyone,

Basically, what we would like to do is define a project for OSM to collect 
information about non-residential buildings.
We would like to popose a list of what would be collected. We were thinking of 
identifying specific areas to start with.

Cheers,

Bjenk Ellefsen, PhD

Center for Special Business Projects | Centre des Projets Spéciaux sur les 
entreprises
Statistics Canada | Statistiques Canada




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[Talk-ca] New project update

[Ellefsen, Bjenk (STATCAN)]

Adam, thank you! You are right, I should have provided more details.

To start with, the data gap in non-residential buildings is that there is no 
comprehensive list even for basic things like counts.
The first goal would be to address that along with basic information about 
these buildings.

The buildings to identify are all the commercial, industrial, government and 
institutional ones in Canada.
 As much as possible the basic information would be:

1. precise location (coordinates, polygon)
2. footprint, size
3. year of construction
4. activities (use)
5. number of floors above ground
6. address (number, street, postal code)

The main objective is to eventually have a national inventory of all these 
buildings.

Bjenk


-Original Message-
From: talk-ca-requ...@openstreetmap.org 
[mailto:talk-ca-requ...@openstreetmap.org] 
Sent: April-22-16 8:00 AM
To: talk-ca@openstreetmap.org
Subject: Talk-ca Digest, Vol 98, Issue 13

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Today's Topics:

   1. Re: New project update (Adam Martin)
   2. Re: New project update (Martijn van Exel)
   3. Re: New project update (Martijn van Exel)


--

Message: 1
Date: Thu, 21 Apr 2016 14:19:06 -0230
From: Adam Martin 
To: "talk-ca@openstreetmap.org" 
Subject: Re: [Talk-ca] New project update
Message-ID:

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

Hi Bjenk,

I think what Paul meant was more along the lines of what specifically you
wanted to do. You state that you want to define a project, but other than
stating that you want to collect certain information about non-residential
buildings, we have little else to go on.

>From the sound of it, you want to use OSM to collect and map specific
information about these non-residential buildings. Are we talking about the
number of windows in the building or employees? The number of floors or the
specific businesses / activities carried out in them?

Just give us something more to go on and we can discuss it from there :)

Adam

On Thu, Apr 21, 2016 at 2:11 PM, Ellefsen, Bjenk (STATCAN) <
bjenk.ellef...@canada.ca> wrote:

> Paul,
>
> All this is open for discussion at this point. We are looking at all the
> options.
> By defining a project its more like stating what information we wish to
> focus on.
> We hope to work with the OSM community and we are looking at different
> ways of doing that.
> We also have different data sources that we will be evaluating to
> potentially link to these buildings.
>
> Thanks for your feedback!
>
> Bjenk
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Paul Ramsey [mailto:pram...@cleverelephant.ca]
> Sent: April-21-16 12:26 PM
> To: Ellefsen, Bjenk (STATCAN) 
> Cc: talk-ca@openstreetmap.org
> Subject: Re: [Talk-ca] New project update
>
> Hey Bjenk,
> When you say "define a project" are you talking about
>
> (a) describing a scope of work that StatsCan intends to resource and
> complete?
> (b) describing a scope of work that StatsCan hopes the OSM community
> will complete on your behalf?
>
> You've used the passive voice in describing the actual collection in
> your description below, so it's not completely clear who you think
> will be collecting the information.
>
> ATB,
>
> P
>
>
> On Thu, Apr 21, 2016 at 8:35 AM, Ellefsen, Bjenk (STATCAN)
>  wrote:
> > Hello everyone,
> >
> > Basically, what we would like to do is define a project for OSM to
> collect
> > information about non-residential buildings.
> > We would like to popose a list of what would be collected. We were
> thinking
> > of identifying specific areas to start with.
> >
> > Cheers,
> >
> > Bjenk Ellefsen, PhD
> >
> > Center for Special Business Projects | Centre des Projets Spéciaux sur
> les
> > entreprises
> > Statistics Canada | Statistiques Canada
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ___
> > Talk-ca mailing list
> > Talk-ca@openstreetmap.org
> > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ca
> >
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Message: 2
Date: 

Re: [Talk-ca] New project update

[Martijn van Exel]

Bjenk — 
Perhaps a micro-tasking tool such as MapRoulette (which I created) would be 
useful to help guide your thinking. I am actively looking for MapRoulette pilot 
projects involving government collaboration. MapRoulette has proven to be a 
very effective tool for solving specific problems or adding specific data types 
to OSM. Let me know if you would like to know more.
Martijn

> On Apr 21, 2016, at 10:41 AM, Ellefsen, Bjenk (STATCAN) 
>  wrote:
> 
> Paul, 
> 
> All this is open for discussion at this point. We are looking at all the 
> options.
> By defining a project its more like stating what information we wish to focus 
> on.
> We hope to work with the OSM community and we are looking at different ways 
> of doing that.
> We also have different data sources that we will be evaluating to potentially 
> link to these buildings.
> 
> Thanks for your feedback!
> 
> Bjenk
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: Paul Ramsey [mailto:pram...@cleverelephant.ca] 
> Sent: April-21-16 12:26 PM
> To: Ellefsen, Bjenk (STATCAN) 
> Cc: talk-ca@openstreetmap.org
> Subject: Re: [Talk-ca] New project update
> 
> Hey Bjenk,
> When you say "define a project" are you talking about
> 
> (a) describing a scope of work that StatsCan intends to resource and complete?
> (b) describing a scope of work that StatsCan hopes the OSM community
> will complete on your behalf?
> 
> You've used the passive voice in describing the actual collection in
> your description below, so it's not completely clear who you think
> will be collecting the information.
> 
> ATB,
> 
> P
> 
> 
> On Thu, Apr 21, 2016 at 8:35 AM, Ellefsen, Bjenk (STATCAN)
>  wrote:
>> Hello everyone,
>> 
>> Basically, what we would like to do is define a project for OSM to collect
>> information about non-residential buildings.
>> We would like to popose a list of what would be collected. We were thinking
>> of identifying specific areas to start with.
>> 
>> Cheers,
>> 
>> Bjenk Ellefsen, PhD
>> 
>> Center for Special Business Projects | Centre des Projets Spéciaux sur les
>> entreprises
>> Statistics Canada | Statistiques Canada
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> ___
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>> 
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