Re: [Talk-ca] Importing buildings in Canada

[john whelan]

There are some areas of reasonable quality where buildings are missing.
These I think can be imported on the technical side without too much
difficulty and those were the ones I cherry picked as low hanging fruit
that should not be contentious.

Having said that I have seen the view expressed it is better to have poor
quality data created by local mappers in OSM than high quality data by
expert mappers so it may well be contentious .

In Ottawa buildings were not imported to overwrite existing buildings.
Basically the missing ones were imported by experienced mappers.  That is
just process and I think we have the process fairly well documented and
defined.

There are three sources of building data with the right license in Canada.
Bing is one and that almost certainly covers Newfoundland so Newfoundland
is involved to some extent.

For data that is deemed in need of cleanup or squaring again we can come up
with a process to do that and we have experienced mappers who can follow
the agreed process.

I suggest we hold back for a few days before getting into a heavy
discussion.

Cheerio John



On Tue, 24 Dec 2019 at 18:30, Adam Martin  wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> Looking at the wiki page, a large volume of the buildings are of low
> quality requiring processing.  The trade off here is between not having
> buildings and having buildings that are out of place and of poor quality.
> I can see people being reluctant to have it imported in an area, especially
> where buildings have been drawn by hand.  If this is to be imported, I
> think many would be more amenable to the idea if the data already present
> was given precedence.
>
> As a Newfoundlander, the lack of any such data for this province could be
> a blessing or a curse, depending on how you see the mass importation of
> buildings.
>
> Happy holidays!
>
> Adam
>
> On Tue., Dec. 24, 2019, 7:36 p.m. Daniel @jfd553, 
> wrote:
>
>> Have a look at the wiki page I referred to. Further discussions will be
>> more easy and focused
>>
>> Sent from Galaxy S7
>>
>> --
>> *From:* John Whelan 
>> *Sent:* Tuesday, December 24, 2019 2:50:29 PM
>> *To:* James 
>> *Cc:* Daniel @jfd553 ; Talk-CA OpenStreetMap <
>> talk-ca@openstreetmap.org>
>> *Subject:* Re: [Talk-ca] Importing buildings in Canada
>>
>> I think the first problem to be addressed is the presence or absence of a
>> local community.
>>
>> In the north we have few mappers but lots of interested agencies and
>> people in seeing the buildings imported.
>>
>> Montreal I think is under control.  Toronto is in the process of sorting
>> itself out but I'm unclear how much territory the Toronto local group
>> covers.
>>
>> Vancouver should be big enough to support a local group.  As should
>> Calgary and Edmonton.
>>
>> Ottawa is complete as is Gatineau.
>>
>> It's the smaller cities and regions that would be my concern.  Often it
>> will be by chance that two or more mappers meet occasionally.
>>
>> So step one can we list the local groups?
>>
>> I also have a problem with what happens if two people agree but haven't
>> done any mapping are they a local group?
>>
>> Step two to me would be a consensus on how to tackle those areas without
>> a local group and I think Daniel's suggestion would be a way forward in
>> this area.
>>
>> Cheerio John
>>
>>
>>
>> James wrote on 2019-12-24 1:28 PM:
>>
>> wasn't there talk about this before and someone blocked it because of
>> non-square buildings and the resulting discussion was that each community
>> was going to decide if they want to import or not?
>>
>> On Tue., Dec. 24, 2019, 1:26 p.m. Daniel @jfd553, 
>> wrote:
>>
>> Hi Group!
>>
>> I am currently working on a proposal which, I hope, will bring consensus
>> among the community and relaunch the import of ODB footprints (StatCan).
>> The proposal should be ready in a few weeks, or sooner.
>>
>>
>>
>> In the meantime, I suggest to all those who are interested to take note
>> of the observations I made regarding these data. This information can be
>> found in the OSM wiki (1). According to OSM import guideline requirements,
>> it describes the data to import. At the same time, I updated the
>> Canada-federal section of the Data Potential wiki page (2).
>>
>>
>>
>> I will be offline in the next few days, so if you have any
>> questions/comments, please be patient :-)
>>
>>
>>
>> Daniel
>>
>>
>>
>> 1 - https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/The_Open_Database_of_Buildings
>>
>> 2 -
>> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Potential_Datasources#Federal_.28Open_Government.29
>> ___
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>> Talk-ca@openstreetmap.org
>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ca
>>
>>
>>
>> ___
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>> listTalk-ca@openstreetmap.orghttps://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ca
>>
>>
>> --
>> Sent from Postbox 
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>> Talk-ca 

Re: [Talk-ca] Importing buildings in Canada

[Adam Martin]

Hi all,

Looking at the wiki page, a large volume of the buildings are of low
quality requiring processing.  The trade off here is between not having
buildings and having buildings that are out of place and of poor quality.
I can see people being reluctant to have it imported in an area, especially
where buildings have been drawn by hand.  If this is to be imported, I
think many would be more amenable to the idea if the data already present
was given precedence.

As a Newfoundlander, the lack of any such data for this province could be a
blessing or a curse, depending on how you see the mass importation of
buildings.

Happy holidays!

Adam

On Tue., Dec. 24, 2019, 7:36 p.m. Daniel @jfd553, 
wrote:

> Have a look at the wiki page I referred to. Further discussions will be
> more easy and focused
>
> Sent from Galaxy S7
>
> --
> *From:* John Whelan 
> *Sent:* Tuesday, December 24, 2019 2:50:29 PM
> *To:* James 
> *Cc:* Daniel @jfd553 ; Talk-CA OpenStreetMap <
> talk-ca@openstreetmap.org>
> *Subject:* Re: [Talk-ca] Importing buildings in Canada
>
> I think the first problem to be addressed is the presence or absence of a
> local community.
>
> In the north we have few mappers but lots of interested agencies and
> people in seeing the buildings imported.
>
> Montreal I think is under control.  Toronto is in the process of sorting
> itself out but I'm unclear how much territory the Toronto local group
> covers.
>
> Vancouver should be big enough to support a local group.  As should
> Calgary and Edmonton.
>
> Ottawa is complete as is Gatineau.
>
> It's the smaller cities and regions that would be my concern.  Often it
> will be by chance that two or more mappers meet occasionally.
>
> So step one can we list the local groups?
>
> I also have a problem with what happens if two people agree but haven't
> done any mapping are they a local group?
>
> Step two to me would be a consensus on how to tackle those areas without a
> local group and I think Daniel's suggestion would be a way forward in this
> area.
>
> Cheerio John
>
>
>
> James wrote on 2019-12-24 1:28 PM:
>
> wasn't there talk about this before and someone blocked it because of
> non-square buildings and the resulting discussion was that each community
> was going to decide if they want to import or not?
>
> On Tue., Dec. 24, 2019, 1:26 p.m. Daniel @jfd553, 
> wrote:
>
> Hi Group!
>
> I am currently working on a proposal which, I hope, will bring consensus
> among the community and relaunch the import of ODB footprints (StatCan).
> The proposal should be ready in a few weeks, or sooner.
>
>
>
> In the meantime, I suggest to all those who are interested to take note of
> the observations I made regarding these data. This information can be found
> in the OSM wiki (1). According to OSM import guideline requirements, it
> describes the data to import. At the same time, I updated the
> Canada-federal section of the Data Potential wiki page (2).
>
>
>
> I will be offline in the next few days, so if you have any
> questions/comments, please be patient :-)
>
>
>
> Daniel
>
>
>
> 1 - https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/The_Open_Database_of_Buildings
>
> 2 -
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Potential_Datasources#Federal_.28Open_Government.29
> ___
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>
>
>
> ___
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>
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Re: [Talk-ca] Importing buildings in Canada

[Daniel @jfd553]

I'll get back to you in a couple of days:-)

Sent from Galaxy S7


From: John Whelan 
Sent: Tuesday, December 24, 2019 6:21:06 PM
To: Daniel @jfd553 
Cc: James ; Talk-CA OpenStreetMap 

Subject: Re: [Talk-ca] Importing buildings in Canada

So an approach would be to pick off those areas with good data available first 
with few existing buildings mapped?

Such as Victoria or Courtenay in BC

Burlington, Caledon, Barrie in Ontario

Then move forward based on that experience?

I'd feel more comfortable with a mapper from the province at least coordinating 
the mapping even if there wasn't a local group.

How would we tackle places such as Perth? Smith Falls and Brockville which are 
available in Bing if not other sources?  These are in Ontario and fairly local 
to Ottawa by the way.

Thanks John

Daniel @jfd553 wrote on 2019-12-24 6:04 PM:
Have a look at the wiki page I referred to. Further discussions will be more 
easy and focused

Sent from Galaxy S7


From: John Whelan 
Sent: Tuesday, December 24, 2019 2:50:29 PM
To: James 
Cc: Daniel @jfd553 ; Talk-CA 
OpenStreetMap 
Subject: Re: [Talk-ca] Importing buildings in Canada

I think the first problem to be addressed is the presence or absence of a local 
community.

In the north we have few mappers but lots of interested agencies and people in 
seeing the buildings imported.

Montreal I think is under control.  Toronto is in the process of sorting itself 
out but I'm unclear how much territory the Toronto local group covers.

Vancouver should be big enough to support a local group.  As should Calgary and 
Edmonton.

Ottawa is complete as is Gatineau.

It's the smaller cities and regions that would be my concern.  Often it will be 
by chance that two or more mappers meet occasionally.

So step one can we list the local groups?

I also have a problem with what happens if two people agree but haven't done 
any mapping are they a local group?

Step two to me would be a consensus on how to tackle those areas without a 
local group and I think Daniel's suggestion would be a way forward in this area.

Cheerio John



James wrote on 2019-12-24 1:28 PM:
wasn't there talk about this before and someone blocked it because of 
non-square buildings and the resulting discussion was that each community was 
going to decide if they want to import or not?

On Tue., Dec. 24, 2019, 1:26 p.m. Daniel @jfd553, 
mailto:jfd...@hotmail.com>> wrote:

Hi Group!

I am currently working on a proposal which, I hope, will bring consensus among 
the community and relaunch the import of ODB footprints (StatCan). The proposal 
should be ready in a few weeks, or sooner.



In the meantime, I suggest to all those who are interested to take note of the 
observations I made regarding these data. This information can be found in the 
OSM wiki (1). According to OSM import guideline requirements, it describes the 
data to import. At the same time, I updated the Canada-federal section of the 
Data Potential wiki page (2).



I will be offline in the next few days, so if you have any questions/comments, 
please be patient :-)



Daniel



1 - https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/The_Open_Database_of_Buildings

2 - 
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Potential_Datasources#Federal_.28Open_Government.29

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Re: [Talk-ca] Importing buildings in Canada

[John Whelan]

So an approach would be to pick off those areas with good data available 
first with few existing buildings mapped?


Such as Victoria or Courtenay in BC

Burlington, Caledon, Barrie in Ontario

Then move forward based on that experience?

I'd feel more comfortable with a mapper from the province at least 
coordinating the mapping even if there wasn't a local group.


How would we tackle places such as Perth? Smith Falls and Brockville 
which are available in Bing if not other sources?  These are in Ontario 
and fairly local to Ottawa by the way.


Thanks John

Daniel @jfd553 wrote on 2019-12-24 6:04 PM:
Have a look at the wiki page I referred to. Further discussions will 
be more easy and focused


Sent from Galaxy S7


*From:* John Whelan 
*Sent:* Tuesday, December 24, 2019 2:50:29 PM
*To:* James 
*Cc:* Daniel @jfd553 ; Talk-CA OpenStreetMap 


*Subject:* Re: [Talk-ca] Importing buildings in Canada
I think the first problem to be addressed is the presence or absence 
of a local community.


In the north we have few mappers but lots of interested agencies and 
people in seeing the buildings imported.


Montreal I think is under control.  Toronto is in the process of 
sorting itself out but I'm unclear how much territory the Toronto 
local group covers.


Vancouver should be big enough to support a local group.  As should 
Calgary and Edmonton.


Ottawa is complete as is Gatineau.

It's the smaller cities and regions that would be my concern.  Often 
it will be by chance that two or more mappers meet occasionally.


So step one can we list the local groups?

I also have a problem with what happens if two people agree but 
haven't done any mapping are they a local group?


Step two to me would be a consensus on how to tackle those areas 
without a local group and I think Daniel's suggestion would be a way 
forward in this area.


Cheerio John



James wrote on 2019-12-24 1:28 PM:
wasn't there talk about this before and someone blocked it because of 
non-square buildings and the resulting discussion was that each 
community was going to decide if they want to import or not?


On Tue., Dec. 24, 2019, 1:26 p.m. Daniel @jfd553, > wrote:


Hi Group!

I am currently working on a proposal which, I hope, will bring
consensus among the community and relaunch the import of ODB
footprints (StatCan). The proposal should be ready in a few
weeks, or sooner.

In the meantime, I suggest to all those who are interested to
take note of the observations I made regarding these data. This
information can be found in the OSM wiki (1). According to OSM
import guideline requirements, it describes the data to import.
At the same time, I updated the Canada-federal section of the
Data Potential wiki page (2).

I will be offline in the next few days, so if you have any
questions/comments, please be patient :-)

Daniel

1 -
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/The_Open_Database_of_Buildings

2 -

https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Potential_Datasources#Federal_.28Open_Government.29

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Re: [Talk-ca] Importing buildings in Canada

[Daniel @jfd553]

Have a look at the wiki page I referred to. Further discussions will be more 
easy and focused

Sent from Galaxy S7


From: John Whelan 
Sent: Tuesday, December 24, 2019 2:50:29 PM
To: James 
Cc: Daniel @jfd553 ; Talk-CA OpenStreetMap 

Subject: Re: [Talk-ca] Importing buildings in Canada

I think the first problem to be addressed is the presence or absence of a local 
community.

In the north we have few mappers but lots of interested agencies and people in 
seeing the buildings imported.

Montreal I think is under control.  Toronto is in the process of sorting itself 
out but I'm unclear how much territory the Toronto local group covers.

Vancouver should be big enough to support a local group.  As should Calgary and 
Edmonton.

Ottawa is complete as is Gatineau.

It's the smaller cities and regions that would be my concern.  Often it will be 
by chance that two or more mappers meet occasionally.

So step one can we list the local groups?

I also have a problem with what happens if two people agree but haven't done 
any mapping are they a local group?

Step two to me would be a consensus on how to tackle those areas without a 
local group and I think Daniel's suggestion would be a way forward in this area.

Cheerio John



James wrote on 2019-12-24 1:28 PM:
wasn't there talk about this before and someone blocked it because of 
non-square buildings and the resulting discussion was that each community was 
going to decide if they want to import or not?

On Tue., Dec. 24, 2019, 1:26 p.m. Daniel @jfd553, 
mailto:jfd...@hotmail.com>> wrote:

Hi Group!

I am currently working on a proposal which, I hope, will bring consensus among 
the community and relaunch the import of ODB footprints (StatCan). The proposal 
should be ready in a few weeks, or sooner.



In the meantime, I suggest to all those who are interested to take note of the 
observations I made regarding these data. This information can be found in the 
OSM wiki (1). According to OSM import guideline requirements, it describes the 
data to import. At the same time, I updated the Canada-federal section of the 
Data Potential wiki page (2).



I will be offline in the next few days, so if you have any questions/comments, 
please be patient :-)



Daniel



1 - https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/The_Open_Database_of_Buildings

2 - 
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Potential_Datasources#Federal_.28Open_Government.29

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Re: [Talk-ca] Importing buildings in Canada

[John Whelan]

I think the first problem to be addressed is the presence or absence of 
a local community.


In the north we have few mappers but lots of interested agencies and 
people in seeing the buildings imported.


Montreal I think is under control.  Toronto is in the process of sorting 
itself out but I'm unclear how much territory the Toronto local group 
covers.


Vancouver should be big enough to support a local group.  As should 
Calgary and Edmonton.


Ottawa is complete as is Gatineau.

It's the smaller cities and regions that would be my concern.  Often it 
will be by chance that two or more mappers meet occasionally.


So step one can we list the local groups?

I also have a problem with what happens if two people agree but haven't 
done any mapping are they a local group?


Step two to me would be a consensus on how to tackle those areas without 
a local group and I think Daniel's suggestion would be a way forward in 
this area.


Cheerio John



James wrote on 2019-12-24 1:28 PM:
wasn't there talk about this before and someone blocked it because of 
non-square buildings and the resulting discussion was that each 
community was going to decide if they want to import or not?


On Tue., Dec. 24, 2019, 1:26 p.m. Daniel @jfd553, > wrote:


Hi Group!

I am currently working on a proposal which, I hope, will bring
consensus among the community and relaunch the import of ODB
footprints (StatCan). The proposal should be ready in a few weeks,
or sooner.

In the meantime, I suggest to all those who are interested to take
note of the observations I made regarding these data. This
information can be found in the OSM wiki (1). According to OSM
import guideline requirements, it describes the data to import. At
the same time, I updated the Canada-federal section of the Data
Potential wiki page (2).

I will be offline in the next few days, so if you have any
questions/comments, please be patient :-)

Daniel

1 - https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/The_Open_Database_of_Buildings

2 -

https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Potential_Datasources#Federal_.28Open_Government.29

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Re: [Talk-ca] Importing buildings in Canada

[Nate Wessel]

Hi Daniel,

Thanks for taking the time to put together these detailed observations 
on the data. It seems like it could be a useful guide, though I have 
some questions about how you came to these measurements and what they 
mean. I'll leave those clarifying questions for the talk page however.


I want to reiterate that I remain opposed to a nationwide import, or at 
least any version of that that takes aim at any part of Toronto. I've 
been working on an import plan for Toronto, though we are still digging 
out from the mess of several imports, including the latest effort at a 
building import. We're making progress, but it is slow and I haven't 
been able to give it the time and attention it needs.
I believe Montreal is working on their own thing as well, and there are 
likely others.


That said, I like that this is starting with a thorough assessment of 
the data in each region. Given that each seems a bit different, I'd 
suggest thinking of a national /import plan/ as more of a national 
/template/ for regions that can be applied and adapted region by region. 
You can lead a horse to water, but it is the local mappers that need to 
drink. Some of them, myself included, can be quite stubborn ;-)


Happy holidays,

Nate Wessel, PhD
Planner, Cartographer, Transport Nerd
NateWessel.com 

On 2019-12-24 1:28 p.m., James wrote:
wasn't there talk about this before and someone blocked it because of 
non-square buildings and the resulting discussion was that each 
community was going to decide if they want to import or not?


On Tue., Dec. 24, 2019, 1:26 p.m. Daniel @jfd553, > wrote:


Hi Group!

I am currently working on a proposal which, I hope, will bring
consensus among the community and relaunch the import of ODB
footprints (StatCan). The proposal should be ready in a few weeks,
or sooner.

In the meantime, I suggest to all those who are interested to take
note of the observations I made regarding these data. This
information can be found in the OSM wiki (1). According to OSM
import guideline requirements, it describes the data to import. At
the same time, I updated the Canada-federal section of the Data
Potential wiki page (2).

I will be offline in the next few days, so if you have any
questions/comments, please be patient :-)

Daniel

1 - https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/The_Open_Database_of_Buildings

2 -

https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Potential_Datasources#Federal_.28Open_Government.29

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Re: [Talk-ca] Importing buildings in Canada

[James]

wasn't there talk about this before and someone blocked it because of
non-square buildings and the resulting discussion was that each community
was going to decide if they want to import or not?

On Tue., Dec. 24, 2019, 1:26 p.m. Daniel @jfd553, 
wrote:

> Hi Group!
>
> I am currently working on a proposal which, I hope, will bring consensus
> among the community and relaunch the import of ODB footprints (StatCan).
> The proposal should be ready in a few weeks, or sooner.
>
>
>
> In the meantime, I suggest to all those who are interested to take note of
> the observations I made regarding these data. This information can be found
> in the OSM wiki (1). According to OSM import guideline requirements, it
> describes the data to import. At the same time, I updated the
> Canada-federal section of the Data Potential wiki page (2).
>
>
>
> I will be offline in the next few days, so if you have any
> questions/comments, please be patient :-)
>
>
>
> Daniel
>
>
>
> 1 - https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/The_Open_Database_of_Buildings
>
> 2 -
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Potential_Datasources#Federal_.28Open_Government.29
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Re: [Talk-ca] Importing buildings in Canada

[Daniel @jfd553]

Hi Group!
I am currently working on a proposal which, I hope, will bring consensus among 
the community and relaunch the import of ODB footprints (StatCan). The proposal 
should be ready in a few weeks, or sooner.

In the meantime, I suggest to all those who are interested to take note of the 
observations I made regarding these data. This information can be found in the 
OSM wiki (1). According to OSM import guideline requirements, it describes the 
data to import. At the same time, I updated the Canada-federal section of the 
Data Potential wiki page (2).

I will be offline in the next few days, so if you have any questions/comments, 
please be patient :-)

Daniel

1 - https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/The_Open_Database_of_Buildings
2 - 
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Potential_Datasources#Federal_.28Open_Government.29
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[Talk-ca] hebdoOSM Nº 491 2019-12-10-2019-12-16

[theweekly . osm]

Bonjour,

Le résumé hebdomadaire n° 491 de l'actualité OpenStreetMap vient de paraître 
*en français*. Un condensé à retrouver sur :

http://www.weeklyosm.eu/fr/archives/12659/

Bonne lecture !

Saviez-vous que vous pouvez vous aussi soumettre des messages pour la note 
hebdomadaire sans être membre ? Il vous suffit de vous connecter sur 
https://osmbc.openstreetmap.de/login avec votre compte OSM. Pour en savoir plus 
sur la rédaction d'un article, cliquez ici: 
http://www.weeklyosm.eu/fr/this-news-should-be-in-weeklyosm

hebdoOSM ? 
Qui : https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/WeeklyOSM#Available_Languages 
Où : 
https://umap.openstreetmap.fr/en/map/weeklyosm-is-currently-produced-in_56718#2/8.6/108.3
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