Re: [Talk-ca] Bus stops in Ottawa

[Paul Norman]

On 2016-03-02 7:14 PM, Stewart C. Russell wrote:

On 2016-03-01 06:42 PM, Tristan Anderson wrote:

>Let's not be too hasty in removing large amounts of data, … simply
>because it may or may not be compatible with a future OSM license.

That's not the issue. It's not compatible with the current licence, for
reasons including:

[...]

Legal risks aside, the import broke most of the Import Guidelines
, so it should be
removed and discussed before import again.
Yes, there's no question the license is incompatible with the ODbL or 
*any* open license.


The two changesets are 17206904 and 17206923. Normally I'd try to 
contact the user, but a changeset dicussion was already started which 
had the same effect and the user has not been active in over a year.


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Re: [Talk-ca] Bus stops in Ottawa

[John Marshall]

I agree Tristan

John

John Marshall
On Mar 1, 2016 18:43, "Tristan Anderson" <andersontris...@hotmail.com>
wrote:

> Let's not be too hasty in removing large amounts of data, imported years
> ago and subsequently edited by several users in various ways, simply
> because it may or may not be compatible with a future OSM license.  If you
> guys are 100% sure this import contravened ODbL, or if the City of Ottawa's
> lawyers contact OSM with concerns, then by all means redact it.  But to me,
> and I admittedly don't know much when it comes to licensing, we should
> leave this alone for the time being.
>
> This isn't something that needs to be re-imported every year.  Minor
> changes to the bus network that occur from time to time can be updated by
> hand by local users.  I see some updates have already taken place since the
> import was made.  As for duplicate bus stops resulting from a node
> predating the import: I've come across this at least once in the past in a
> neigbourhood I was editing after a recent visit to Ottawa.  I merged the
> tags and deleted the more recent stop.
>
> --
> To: talk-ca@openstreetmap.org
> From: penor...@mac.com
> Date: Tue, 1 Mar 2016 08:40:45 +0100
> Subject: Re: [Talk-ca] Bus stops in Ottawa
>
> On 2016-02-29 2:46 AM, john whelan wrote:
>
> I think with the clause in the uploading terms that OSM can change the
> license its very difficult to import anything as it is difficult to say to
> City of Ottawa etc we'd like your data but we don't know what license it
> may have in OSM in the future.
>
> Data needs to be compatible with our license, which is the ODbL.[1]
>
> Is anyone going to take the responsibility on for removing the data?
>
> Copyright incompatible data needs to be redacted, not just deleted. I'd
> normally be the one doing this, but I'm traveling today.
>
>
> http://wiki.osmfoundation.org/wiki/License#Can_third-party_ODbL-licensed_data_be_imported.3F
>
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Re: [Talk-ca] Bus stops in Ottawa

[Tristan Anderson]

Let's not be too hasty in removing large amounts of data, imported years ago 
and subsequently edited by several users in various ways, simply because it may 
or may not be compatible with a future OSM license.  If you guys are 100% sure 
this import contravened ODbL, or if the City of Ottawa's lawyers contact OSM 
with concerns, then by all means redact it.  But to me, and I admittedly don't 
know much when it comes to licensing, we should leave this alone for the time 
being.
This isn't something that needs to be re-imported every year.  Minor changes to 
the bus network that occur from time to time can be updated by hand by local 
users.  I see some updates have already taken place since the import was made.  
As for duplicate bus stops resulting from a node predating the import: I've 
come across this at least once in the past in a neigbourhood I was editing 
after a recent visit to Ottawa.  I merged the tags and deleted the more recent 
stop.

To: talk-ca@openstreetmap.org
From: penor...@mac.com
Date: Tue, 1 Mar 2016 08:40:45 +0100
Subject: Re: [Talk-ca] Bus stops in Ottawa


  

  
  
On 2016-02-29 2:46 AM, john whelan wrote:


  I think
with the clause in the uploading terms that OSM can change the
license its very difficult to import anything as it is difficult
to say to City of Ottawa etc we'd like your data but we don't
know what license it may have in OSM in the future.

  

Data needs to be compatible with our license, which is the ODbL.[1]


  Is anyone
going to take the responsibility on for removing the data?

Copyright incompatible data needs to be redacted, not just deleted.
I'd normally be the one doing this, but I'm traveling today.



http://wiki.osmfoundation.org/wiki/License#Can_third-party_ODbL-licensed_data_be_imported.3F

  


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Re: [Talk-ca] Bus stops in Ottawa

[john whelan]

Note to James, I seem to recall Stats Canada addresses which have been
imported recently were done through the open data portal Gov Canada.
Perhaps Ottawa might like to release the GTFS data through there?
Especially since it was given to Google without strings I understand.

Cheerio John

On 1 March 2016 at 09:02, Stewart C. Russell  wrote:

> On 2016-03-01 07:19 AM, john whelan wrote:
> >
> > My understanding of the terms and conditions for uploading data is you
> > have to give permission for OSM to change the license from ODBl.
>
> Isn't it more that the OSMF reserves the right to change the licence?
> Ottawa's share-alike terms are incompatible with ODbL's share-alike
> terms, so it has to go.
>
> Not sure about what Paul meant by redacted vs deleted. Either way, I've
> never rolled a changeset back, and this wouldn't be a good first one for
> me to try.
>
> cheers,
>  Stewart
>
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Re: [Talk-ca] Bus stops in Ottawa

[Stewart C. Russell]

On 2016-03-01 07:19 AM, john whelan wrote:
> 
> My understanding of the terms and conditions for uploading data is you
> have to give permission for OSM to change the license from ODBl.

Isn't it more that the OSMF reserves the right to change the licence?
Ottawa's share-alike terms are incompatible with ODbL's share-alike
terms, so it has to go.

Not sure about what Paul meant by redacted vs deleted. Either way, I've
never rolled a changeset back, and this wouldn't be a good first one for
me to try.

cheers,
 Stewart

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Re: [Talk-ca] Bus stops in Ottawa

[john whelan]

>Data needs to be compatible with our license, which is the ODbL.[1]

My understanding of the terms and conditions for uploading data is you have
to give permission for OSM to change the license from ODBl. so yes its
ODBl. at the moment but maybe something else in the future.

Cheerio John

On 1 March 2016 at 02:40, Paul Norman  wrote:

> On 2016-02-29 2:46 AM, john whelan wrote:
>
> I think with the clause in the uploading terms that OSM can change the
> license its very difficult to import anything as it is difficult to say to
> City of Ottawa etc we'd like your data but we don't know what license it
> may have in OSM in the future.
>
> Data needs to be compatible with our license, which is the ODbL.[1]
>
> Is anyone going to take the responsibility on for removing the data?
>
> Copyright incompatible data needs to be redacted, not just deleted. I'd
> normally be the one doing this, but I'm traveling today.
>
>
> http://wiki.osmfoundation.org/wiki/License#Can_third-party_ODbL-licensed_data_be_imported.3F
>
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Re: [Talk-ca] Bus stops in Ottawa

[Paul Norman]

On 2016-02-29 2:46 AM, john whelan wrote:
I think with the clause in the uploading terms that OSM can change the 
license its very difficult to import anything as it is difficult to 
say to City of Ottawa etc we'd like your data but we don't know what 
license it may have in OSM in the future.

Data needs to be compatible with our license, which is the ODbL.[1]

Is anyone going to take the responsibility on for removing the data?
Copyright incompatible data needs to be redacted, not just deleted. I'd 
normally be the one doing this, but I'm traveling today.


http://wiki.osmfoundation.org/wiki/License#Can_third-party_ODbL-licensed_data_be_imported.3F
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Re: [Talk-ca] Bus stops in Ottawa

[Stewart C. Russell]

On 2016-02-29 01:25 PM, john whelan wrote:
>
> It maybe possible to work with the city of Ottawa on this one
> but one problem they have identified is open data being used but not
> updated.

I'm surprised they even see their data being used at all, as it's almost
impossible to mix it with any other data. If they want their data
updated, maybe they should consider

 i ) providing diffs; or
 ii) using a licence that they didn't just make up.

Does anyone know the user brousseaumat? Reverting changesets 17206904
and 17206923 might be hard to do cleanly, as many changes have been
made, and transit relations built on top of them. To remove them -
although we should - would destroy transit mapping in Ottawa.

cheers,
 Stewart

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Re: [Talk-ca] Bus stops in Ottawa

[john whelan]

One of the tags has a value that is only available from the GTFS file.  You
still have the problem of multiple bus stops mapped in one location.  It
maybe possible to work with the city of Ottawa on this one but one problem
they have identified is open data being used but not updated.

I think both you and I feel there is a lot of very useful data published by
the City of Ottawa I'd like to see in OSM but at the moment I can't see a
way.

Sorry John

On 29 February 2016 at 13:02, James  wrote:

> There's also the problem: how do you know that the bus stop was from an
> import vs user created.
> On Feb 28, 2016 8:48 PM, "john whelan"  wrote:
>
>> I think with the clause in the uploading terms that OSM can change the
>> license its very difficult to import anything as it is difficult to say to
>> City of Ottawa etc we'd like your data but we don't know what license it
>> may have in OSM in the future.
>>
>> Is anyone going to take the responsibility on for removing the data?
>>
>> Thanks
>>
>> Cheerio John
>>
>> On 28 February 2016 at 20:37, Stewart C. Russell 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Hi John, and all —
>>>
>>> If this is the GTFS data for Ottawa:
>>>
>>> http://data.ottawa.ca/dataset/oc-transpo-schedules
>>>
>>> then it's published under the City of Ottawa Open Data - Terms of use:
>>>
>>>
>>> http://ottawa.ca/en/mobile-apps-and-open-data/open-data-terms-use
>>>
>>> This licence is incompatible with the ODbL used by OSM:
>>>
>>> http://clipol.org/licences/16?tab=licence_compatibility
>>>
>>> and therefore these data, and any others derived from Ottawa municipal
>>> data sets, should be removed from the map.
>>>
>>> I know that there may be commuting apps that rely on these data points,
>>> but it's Ottawa's silly fault for using a licence that's only compatible
>>> with itself.
>>>
>>> cheers,
>>>  Stewart
>>>
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Re: [Talk-ca] Bus stops in Ottawa

[Adam Martin]

That is a significant issue. If the original user *brousseaumat* was the
one that made the import and he / she has ... only 8 edits to their name,
all within Ontario, then reversing his work may be enough.

On Mon, Feb 29, 2016 at 2:32 PM, James  wrote:

> There's also the problem: how do you know that the bus stop was from an
> import vs user created.
> On Feb 28, 2016 8:48 PM, "john whelan"  wrote:
>
>> I think with the clause in the uploading terms that OSM can change the
>> license its very difficult to import anything as it is difficult to say to
>> City of Ottawa etc we'd like your data but we don't know what license it
>> may have in OSM in the future.
>>
>> Is anyone going to take the responsibility on for removing the data?
>>
>> Thanks
>>
>> Cheerio John
>>
>> On 28 February 2016 at 20:37, Stewart C. Russell 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Hi John, and all —
>>>
>>> If this is the GTFS data for Ottawa:
>>>
>>> http://data.ottawa.ca/dataset/oc-transpo-schedules
>>>
>>> then it's published under the City of Ottawa Open Data - Terms of use:
>>>
>>>
>>> http://ottawa.ca/en/mobile-apps-and-open-data/open-data-terms-use
>>>
>>> This licence is incompatible with the ODbL used by OSM:
>>>
>>> http://clipol.org/licences/16?tab=licence_compatibility
>>>
>>> and therefore these data, and any others derived from Ottawa municipal
>>> data sets, should be removed from the map.
>>>
>>> I know that there may be commuting apps that rely on these data points,
>>> but it's Ottawa's silly fault for using a licence that's only compatible
>>> with itself.
>>>
>>> cheers,
>>>  Stewart
>>>
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Re: [Talk-ca] Bus stops in Ottawa

[James]

There's also the problem: how do you know that the bus stop was from an
import vs user created.
On Feb 28, 2016 8:48 PM, "john whelan"  wrote:

> I think with the clause in the uploading terms that OSM can change the
> license its very difficult to import anything as it is difficult to say to
> City of Ottawa etc we'd like your data but we don't know what license it
> may have in OSM in the future.
>
> Is anyone going to take the responsibility on for removing the data?
>
> Thanks
>
> Cheerio John
>
> On 28 February 2016 at 20:37, Stewart C. Russell  wrote:
>
>> Hi John, and all —
>>
>> If this is the GTFS data for Ottawa:
>>
>> http://data.ottawa.ca/dataset/oc-transpo-schedules
>>
>> then it's published under the City of Ottawa Open Data - Terms of use:
>>
>> http://ottawa.ca/en/mobile-apps-and-open-data/open-data-terms-use
>>
>> This licence is incompatible with the ODbL used by OSM:
>>
>> http://clipol.org/licences/16?tab=licence_compatibility
>>
>> and therefore these data, and any others derived from Ottawa municipal
>> data sets, should be removed from the map.
>>
>> I know that there may be commuting apps that rely on these data points,
>> but it's Ottawa's silly fault for using a licence that's only compatible
>> with itself.
>>
>> cheers,
>>  Stewart
>>
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Re: [Talk-ca] Bus stops in Ottawa

[john whelan]

I think with the clause in the uploading terms that OSM can change the
license its very difficult to import anything as it is difficult to say to
City of Ottawa etc we'd like your data but we don't know what license it
may have in OSM in the future.

Is anyone going to take the responsibility on for removing the data?

Thanks

Cheerio John

On 28 February 2016 at 20:37, Stewart C. Russell  wrote:

> Hi John, and all —
>
> If this is the GTFS data for Ottawa:
>
> http://data.ottawa.ca/dataset/oc-transpo-schedules
>
> then it's published under the City of Ottawa Open Data - Terms of use:
>
> http://ottawa.ca/en/mobile-apps-and-open-data/open-data-terms-use
>
> This licence is incompatible with the ODbL used by OSM:
>
> http://clipol.org/licences/16?tab=licence_compatibility
>
> and therefore these data, and any others derived from Ottawa municipal
> data sets, should be removed from the map.
>
> I know that there may be commuting apps that rely on these data points,
> but it's Ottawa's silly fault for using a licence that's only compatible
> with itself.
>
> cheers,
>  Stewart
>
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Re: [Talk-ca] Bus stops in Ottawa

[Stewart C. Russell]

Hi John, and all —

If this is the GTFS data for Ottawa:

http://data.ottawa.ca/dataset/oc-transpo-schedules

then it's published under the City of Ottawa Open Data - Terms of use:

http://ottawa.ca/en/mobile-apps-and-open-data/open-data-terms-use

This licence is incompatible with the ODbL used by OSM:

http://clipol.org/licences/16?tab=licence_compatibility

and therefore these data, and any others derived from Ottawa municipal
data sets, should be removed from the map.

I know that there may be commuting apps that rely on these data points,
but it's Ottawa's silly fault for using a licence that's only compatible
with itself.

cheers,
 Stewart

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Re: [Talk-ca] Bus stops in Ottawa

[James]

I had also STO had no choice of being added manually as STO wouldnt provide
gtfs data, not sure if the license is even compatible for import(for the
gtfs data they finally provided after many people have begged for years for)
On Feb 28, 2016 4:24 PM, "Adam Martin"  wrote:

> This is often the trouble that long-term mappers might have with
> hit-and-run mappers, especially with regards to "living" information that
> is added to the map. Static information, like large buildings in a mature
> location or major thoroughfares, can be added by these quick mappers and
> remain relatively "safe" in terms of display on the map. The more living
> that information might be, such as bus stops in a metropolis or the
> individual businesses in a strip mall, the more prone it is to becoming
> stale-dated. Mappers in the area would be better suited to updating these
> points.
>
> On Sun, Feb 28, 2016 at 5:37 PM, James  wrote:
>
>> Most of the STO bus stations were manually added by myself, not sure if
>> there were any added/changed after the fact
>> On Feb 28, 2016 4:02 PM, "john whelan"  wrote:
>>
>>> So it sounds like essentially we are saying the import wasn't discussed
>>> at least as far as what the tags were to be used, I note that the STO stops
>>> on Wellington have a different set of tags.  Nor was any thought given to
>>> preserving bus shelter information nor to keeping the information up to
>>> date nor to removing any bus stops already mapped.
>>>
>>> Oh well such is life.
>>>
>>> Cheerio John
>>>
>>> On 28 February 2016 at 15:19, Andrew MacKinnon 
>>> wrote:
>>>

 On Feb 28, 2016 3:05 PM, "john whelan"  wrote:
 >
 > It appears in august 2013 user andrewpmk imported the OC transpo bus
 stops, which is fine I don't have a problem with imports but I understand
 OC transpo issue a new updated GTFS file every year.  Are there plans to
 reimport all the bus stops or will they simply become unreliable?  ie most
 will be there and some will be missed.
 > These bus stops have been imported since the POI information includes
 information which is not visible at the bus stop but is available form the
 GTFS file.
 >
 > I have three concerns, one is the GTFS file does not include bus
 shelters and some existing bus stops have been mapped with shelter
 information.  Are we to lose bus shelter information?  The second is
 locally andrewpmk mapped bus stops in 2011 without the GTFS POI information
 and they are still there.  So some locations have two bus stops mapped
 where there should be only one.  The third one is how reliable is the data?
 Were all the bus stops in Ottawa imported and how do we communicate to
 users this bus stop was mapped in Aug 2013 if they aren't using JOSM?

 The bus stops were imported by brousseaumat. I just added the operator
 OC Transpo to them.

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Re: [Talk-ca] Bus stops in Ottawa

[Adam Martin]

This is often the trouble that long-term mappers might have with
hit-and-run mappers, especially with regards to "living" information that
is added to the map. Static information, like large buildings in a mature
location or major thoroughfares, can be added by these quick mappers and
remain relatively "safe" in terms of display on the map. The more living
that information might be, such as bus stops in a metropolis or the
individual businesses in a strip mall, the more prone it is to becoming
stale-dated. Mappers in the area would be better suited to updating these
points.

On Sun, Feb 28, 2016 at 5:37 PM, James  wrote:

> Most of the STO bus stations were manually added by myself, not sure if
> there were any added/changed after the fact
> On Feb 28, 2016 4:02 PM, "john whelan"  wrote:
>
>> So it sounds like essentially we are saying the import wasn't discussed
>> at least as far as what the tags were to be used, I note that the STO stops
>> on Wellington have a different set of tags.  Nor was any thought given to
>> preserving bus shelter information nor to keeping the information up to
>> date nor to removing any bus stops already mapped.
>>
>> Oh well such is life.
>>
>> Cheerio John
>>
>> On 28 February 2016 at 15:19, Andrew MacKinnon 
>> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> On Feb 28, 2016 3:05 PM, "john whelan"  wrote:
>>> >
>>> > It appears in august 2013 user andrewpmk imported the OC transpo bus
>>> stops, which is fine I don't have a problem with imports but I understand
>>> OC transpo issue a new updated GTFS file every year.  Are there plans to
>>> reimport all the bus stops or will they simply become unreliable?  ie most
>>> will be there and some will be missed.
>>> > These bus stops have been imported since the POI information includes
>>> information which is not visible at the bus stop but is available form the
>>> GTFS file.
>>> >
>>> > I have three concerns, one is the GTFS file does not include bus
>>> shelters and some existing bus stops have been mapped with shelter
>>> information.  Are we to lose bus shelter information?  The second is
>>> locally andrewpmk mapped bus stops in 2011 without the GTFS POI information
>>> and they are still there.  So some locations have two bus stops mapped
>>> where there should be only one.  The third one is how reliable is the data?
>>> Were all the bus stops in Ottawa imported and how do we communicate to
>>> users this bus stop was mapped in Aug 2013 if they aren't using JOSM?
>>>
>>> The bus stops were imported by brousseaumat. I just added the operator
>>> OC Transpo to them.
>>>
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Re: [Talk-ca] Bus stops in Ottawa

[James]

Most of the STO bus stations were manually added by myself, not sure if
there were any added/changed after the fact
On Feb 28, 2016 4:02 PM, "john whelan"  wrote:

> So it sounds like essentially we are saying the import wasn't discussed at
> least as far as what the tags were to be used, I note that the STO stops on
> Wellington have a different set of tags.  Nor was any thought given to
> preserving bus shelter information nor to keeping the information up to
> date nor to removing any bus stops already mapped.
>
> Oh well such is life.
>
> Cheerio John
>
> On 28 February 2016 at 15:19, Andrew MacKinnon 
> wrote:
>
>>
>> On Feb 28, 2016 3:05 PM, "john whelan"  wrote:
>> >
>> > It appears in august 2013 user andrewpmk imported the OC transpo bus
>> stops, which is fine I don't have a problem with imports but I understand
>> OC transpo issue a new updated GTFS file every year.  Are there plans to
>> reimport all the bus stops or will they simply become unreliable?  ie most
>> will be there and some will be missed.
>> > These bus stops have been imported since the POI information includes
>> information which is not visible at the bus stop but is available form the
>> GTFS file.
>> >
>> > I have three concerns, one is the GTFS file does not include bus
>> shelters and some existing bus stops have been mapped with shelter
>> information.  Are we to lose bus shelter information?  The second is
>> locally andrewpmk mapped bus stops in 2011 without the GTFS POI information
>> and they are still there.  So some locations have two bus stops mapped
>> where there should be only one.  The third one is how reliable is the data?
>> Were all the bus stops in Ottawa imported and how do we communicate to
>> users this bus stop was mapped in Aug 2013 if they aren't using JOSM?
>>
>> The bus stops were imported by brousseaumat. I just added the operator OC
>> Transpo to them.
>>
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Re: [Talk-ca] Bus stops in Ottawa

[john whelan]

So it sounds like essentially we are saying the import wasn't discussed at
least as far as what the tags were to be used, I note that the STO stops on
Wellington have a different set of tags.  Nor was any thought given to
preserving bus shelter information nor to keeping the information up to
date nor to removing any bus stops already mapped.

Oh well such is life.

Cheerio John

On 28 February 2016 at 15:19, Andrew MacKinnon  wrote:

>
> On Feb 28, 2016 3:05 PM, "john whelan"  wrote:
> >
> > It appears in august 2013 user andrewpmk imported the OC transpo bus
> stops, which is fine I don't have a problem with imports but I understand
> OC transpo issue a new updated GTFS file every year.  Are there plans to
> reimport all the bus stops or will they simply become unreliable?  ie most
> will be there and some will be missed.
> > These bus stops have been imported since the POI information includes
> information which is not visible at the bus stop but is available form the
> GTFS file.
> >
> > I have three concerns, one is the GTFS file does not include bus
> shelters and some existing bus stops have been mapped with shelter
> information.  Are we to lose bus shelter information?  The second is
> locally andrewpmk mapped bus stops in 2011 without the GTFS POI information
> and they are still there.  So some locations have two bus stops mapped
> where there should be only one.  The third one is how reliable is the data?
> Were all the bus stops in Ottawa imported and how do we communicate to
> users this bus stop was mapped in Aug 2013 if they aren't using JOSM?
>
> The bus stops were imported by brousseaumat. I just added the operator OC
> Transpo to them.
>
> ___
> Talk-ca mailing list
> Talk-ca@openstreetmap.org
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ca
>
>
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Re: [Talk-ca] Bus stops in Ottawa

[Andrew MacKinnon]

On Feb 28, 2016 3:05 PM, "john whelan"  wrote:
>
> It appears in august 2013 user andrewpmk imported the OC transpo bus
stops, which is fine I don't have a problem with imports but I understand
OC transpo issue a new updated GTFS file every year.  Are there plans to
reimport all the bus stops or will they simply become unreliable?  ie most
will be there and some will be missed.
> These bus stops have been imported since the POI information includes
information which is not visible at the bus stop but is available form the
GTFS file.
>
> I have three concerns, one is the GTFS file does not include bus shelters
and some existing bus stops have been mapped with shelter information.  Are
we to lose bus shelter information?  The second is locally andrewpmk mapped
bus stops in 2011 without the GTFS POI information and they are still
there.  So some locations have two bus stops mapped where there should be
only one.  The third one is how reliable is the data? Were all the bus
stops in Ottawa imported and how do we communicate to users this bus stop
was mapped in Aug 2013 if they aren't using JOSM?

The bus stops were imported by brousseaumat. I just added the operator OC
Transpo to them.
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[Talk-ca] Bus stops in Ottawa

[john whelan]

It appears in august 2013 user andrewpmk imported the OC transpo bus stops,
which is fine I don't have a problem with imports but I understand OC
transpo issue a new updated GTFS file every year.  Are there plans to
reimport all the bus stops or will they simply become unreliable?  ie most
will be there and some will be missed.
These bus stops have been imported since the POI information includes
information which is not visible at the bus stop but is available form the
GTFS file.

I have three concerns, one is the GTFS file does not include bus shelters
and some existing bus stops have been mapped with shelter information.  Are
we to lose bus shelter information?  The second is locally andrewpmk mapped
bus stops in 2011 without the GTFS POI information and they are still
there.  So some locations have two bus stops mapped where there should be
only one.  The third one is how reliable is the data? Were all the bus
stops in Ottawa imported and how do we communicate to users this bus stop
was mapped in Aug 2013 if they aren't using JOSM?

Thoughts?

Thanks

Cheerio John
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