[Talk-ca] Determining The Identity Of Features
Hi there, I've been doing a bit of mapping for the project in the UK, adding some roads and trails generally from my area of mid-Wales. We have a bit of a copyright problem with "naming" features in the UK that we have actually surveyed. You can see the question and the responses on this link: http://help.openstreetmap.org/questions/1286/determining-the-identity-of-features. The government is being a bit more open and has released some data but there seems to be some discussion about a possible conflict between its licence and the OSM licence. I'm in Canada for a while and thought I'd map some trails while I'm here per your WikiProject Canada page. I'm hiking in Provincial Parks and National Parks in BC at the moment. I guess there will also be Regional Parks. At the trailhead there are generally maps naming the trails and features. Having hiked and tracklogged the trail am I permitted to "name" the trail or feature in OSM from the information found at the trailheads? (Or do I ask somebody who looks at the sign at the trailhead and then tells me?!!!?) Also I'm aware that NRCan has released a huge amount of data for use. Can I similarly "name" features from information obtained from those sources, e.g. the Topo tiffs? The reason I ask here is that I know that you guys (authorities!) seem somewhat open about copyright licensing and the uses to which official cartographic data is put and some guidelines for me would be great. Thanks for your time... ___ Talk-ca mailing list Talk-ca@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ca
[Talk-ca] Determining The Identity Of Features
Hi there Richard, Sam and Adam, Many thanks for taking the time out to provide me with your comments and guidance... Chris ___ Talk-ca mailing list Talk-ca@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ca
Re: [Talk-ca] Determining The Identity Of Features
Bump! Anyone able to give me some guidance on this? Many thanks. --- On 11/02/2011 12:36, Chris Bruce wrote: Hi there, I've been doing a bit of mapping for the project in the UK, adding some roads and trails generally from my area of mid-Wales. We have a bit of a copyright problem with "naming" features in the UK that we have actually surveyed. You can see the question and the responses on this link: http://help.openstreetmap.org/questions/1286/determining-the-identity-of-features. The government is being a bit more open and has released some data but there seems to be some discussion about a possible conflict between its licence and the OSM licence. I'm in Canada for a while and thought I'd map some trails while I'm here per your WikiProject Canada page. I'm hiking in Provincial Parks and National Parks in BC at the moment. I guess there will also be Regional Parks. At the trailhead there are generally maps naming the trails and features. Having hiked and tracklogged the trail am I permitted to "name" the trail or feature in OSM from the information found at the trailheads? (Or do I ask somebody who looks at the sign at the trailhead and then tells me?!!!?) Also I'm aware that NRCan has released a huge amount of data for use. Can I similarly "name" and draw features from information obtained from those sources, e.g. the Topo tiffs? The reason I ask here is that I know that you guys (authorities!) seem somewhat open about copyright licensing and the uses to which official cartographic data is put and some guidelines for me would be great. Thanks for your time... ___ Talk-ca mailing list Talk-ca@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ca
Re: [Talk-ca] Determining The Identity Of Features
On Fri, Feb 11, 2011 at 3:36 PM, Chris Bruce wrote: > Hi there, [ ... ] > I'm in Canada for a while and thought I'd map some trails while I'm here per > your WikiProject Canada page. I'm hiking in Provincial Parks and National > Parks in BC at the moment. I guess there will also be Regional Parks. At the > trailhead there are generally maps naming the trails and features. Having > hiked and tracklogged the trail am I permitted to "name" the trail or > feature in OSM from the information found at the trailheads? (Or do I ask > somebody who looks at the sign at the trailhead and then tells me?!!!?) > > Also I'm aware that NRCan has released a huge amount of data for use. Can I > similarly "name" features from information obtained from those sources, e.g. > the Topo tiffs? > > The reason I ask here is that I know that you guys (authorities!) seem > somewhat open about copyright licensing and the uses to which official > cartographic data is put and some guidelines for me would be great. > > Thanks for your time... The Canadian OSM community is every bit as careful to only derive from permitted sources as the OSM community as a whole. Fortunately, Natural Resources Canada, see the benefit of OSM and allow us explicit permission to use their CanVec, GeoBase and GeoGratis data sets. Please check the catalogue for details, links etc. I see trailside _signposts_ as a permitted source as street signs are. I see trailside _maps_ as a not permitted source; similar to gas station road maps. A trailside map is likely to be a creative work in it's own right. The trails on the map may well be subject to artistic simplifications, and lack a scale or projection so even if permitted, derivation would be risky. Enjoy your visit to Canada. Be sure to contact local groups as you travel around. Best regards, Richard http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Import/Catalogue ___ Talk-ca mailing list Talk-ca@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ca
Re: [Talk-ca] Determining The Identity Of Features
Hi, ya Richard responded... but i wanted too :) Yup. For the NRCan trails that you see on the map (if no canvec has been imported, please try to get the data imported (manually copied in) for your area. Or use the Ibycus Topo garmin maps[1] (which is the exact same source). And just add in the name of the trails as you actually see the signs. Feel free to take photos of the signs as you go along, and geo-tag them in flickr/picasa (it helps everyone). At the exact point where the sign is, place a node and put tourism=information information=guidepost name=Name on the sign source=survey FYI, for some areas (like Ontario) the government is a bit nicer, and actually shares this information (trailheads as POIs) [2]. My hopes is that this new Premier will want to make the data open. .. time will tell i guess. Since it's in OpenStreetMap ... 'on the ground' trumps all data. Remember that the NRCan data is sometimes old, so their might have been a trail where it's shown and it might have changed since or become overgrown. Cheers, Sam [1] http://www.ibycus.com/ibycustopo/ [2] I'm currently in the process of converting the Land Information Ontario - trails data into .osm files and .gpx / .gdb files .. the licence of this conversion will be ccBY - Land Information Ontario / Ministry of Natural Resources ... and up the the OpenStreetMap Foundation 'Powers' to decide if it gets used here's the ontario trails data... the poi's are soon. https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/8lecWX_g_RNULcGJYgdU_Q?feat=directlink ... and for BC trails, if i do convert it, it will need to be 'personal use only' ... which genuinely sucks for everyone.. :( --- Across Canada Trails - Beyond 2017 - The National Trails Network Victoria, BC Canada Twitter: @Acrosscanada Blog: http://acrosscanadatrails.posterous.com/ Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/sam.vekemans Skype: 'Sam Vekemans' Member, CommonMap Inc. http://commonmap.org/ IRC: irc://irc.oftc.net #CommonMap Also find us on Facebook, Twitter and LinkedIn On Sun, Feb 27, 2011 at 12:02 PM, Chris Bruce wrote: > Bump! > > Anyone able to give me some guidance on this? > > Many thanks. > > --- > > > On 11/02/2011 12:36, Chris Bruce wrote: > >> Hi there, >> >> I've been doing a bit of mapping for the project in the UK, adding some >> roads and trails generally from my area of mid-Wales. We have a bit of a >> copyright problem with "naming" features in the UK that we have actually >> surveyed. You can see the question and the responses on this link: >> http://help.openstreetmap.org/questions/1286/determining-the-identity-of-features. >> The government is being a bit more open and has released some data but there >> seems to be some discussion about a possible conflict between its licence >> and the OSM licence. >> >> I'm in Canada for a while and thought I'd map some trails while I'm here >> per your WikiProject Canada page. I'm hiking in Provincial Parks and >> National Parks in BC at the moment. I guess there will also be Regional >> Parks. At the trailhead there are generally maps naming the trails and >> features. Having hiked and tracklogged the trail am I permitted to "name" >> the trail or feature in OSM from the information found at the trailheads? >> (Or do I ask somebody who looks at the sign at the trailhead and then tells >> me?!!!?) >> >> Also I'm aware that NRCan has released a huge amount of data for use. Can >> I similarly "name" and draw features from information obtained from those >> sources, e.g. the Topo tiffs? >> >> >> The reason I ask here is that I know that you guys (authorities!) seem >> somewhat open about copyright licensing and the uses to which official >> cartographic data is put and some guidelines for me would be great. >> >> Thanks for your time... >> > > > > ___ > Talk-ca mailing list > Talk-ca@openstreetmap.org > http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ca > ___ Talk-ca mailing list Talk-ca@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ca
Re: [Talk-ca] Determining The Identity Of Features
Richard and Sam beat me to the response, but here's my understanding anyways: You can't copyright fact. The fact that a trail has some name is not copyright-able. Collections of facts are copyright-able, however. Let's say you come across a single trail marker such as that in [http://www.travelpod.com/travel-photo/tombuttle/9/1228407840/10_trail_marker.jpg/tpod.html], or a set of individual trail markers, like in [http://blog.myczechrepublic.com/images/trebon-trail-markers.jpg]. These are stating facts (and could be considered different objects, even when they are nailed to a single tree), and therefore are not copyright (at least not in the Canadian/US system). In order to collect the name of a trail, you would need to visit the trail head to read the marker sign. Now let's say you come across a trail map board, such as [http://outdoors.webshots.com/photo/1120051478042125381wBnHBr]. This would be considered a collection of facts, and is therefore protected under copyright. You don't need to visit a trail head because somebody has already collected the facts for you and assembled them into one place. Adam On Sun, Feb 27, 2011 at 12:02 PM, Chris Bruce wrote: > Bump! > > Anyone able to give me some guidance on this? > > Many thanks. > > --- > > On 11/02/2011 12:36, Chris Bruce wrote: >> >> Hi there, >> >> I've been doing a bit of mapping for the project in the UK, adding some >> roads and trails generally from my area of mid-Wales. We have a bit of a >> copyright problem with "naming" features in the UK that we have actually >> surveyed. You can see the question and the responses on this link: >> http://help.openstreetmap.org/questions/1286/determining-the-identity-of-features. >> The government is being a bit more open and has released some data but there >> seems to be some discussion about a possible conflict between its licence >> and the OSM licence. >> >> I'm in Canada for a while and thought I'd map some trails while I'm here >> per your WikiProject Canada page. I'm hiking in Provincial Parks and >> National Parks in BC at the moment. I guess there will also be Regional >> Parks. At the trailhead there are generally maps naming the trails and >> features. Having hiked and tracklogged the trail am I permitted to "name" >> the trail or feature in OSM from the information found at the trailheads? >> (Or do I ask somebody who looks at the sign at the trailhead and then tells >> me?!!!?) >> >> Also I'm aware that NRCan has released a huge amount of data for use. Can >> I similarly "name" and draw features from information obtained from those >> sources, e.g. the Topo tiffs? >> >> The reason I ask here is that I know that you guys (authorities!) seem >> somewhat open about copyright licensing and the uses to which official >> cartographic data is put and some guidelines for me would be great. >> >> Thanks for your time... > > > > ___ > Talk-ca mailing list > Talk-ca@openstreetmap.org > http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ca > ___ Talk-ca mailing list Talk-ca@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ca
