Re: [Talk-ca] Licence de données ouvertes, Montréal

[Bruno Remy]

Bonjour Pierre,

Une très bonne nouvelle!
Espérons que les autres villes suivront... À noter qu'au Québec, la ville
de Repentigny vient, elle aussi, d'ouvrir des données.

Bruno Remy
Le 2013-03-02 12:05, "Pierre Béland"  a écrit :

> ENGLISH TEXT FOLLOWS
>
> Après consultation de la communauté, la ville de Montréal a modifié sa
> licence de données en date du 28 février 2013. Il est clairement stipulé
> sur la page de la licence :
>
> Elle est similaire à une licence *Creative Commons 
> CC-BY*.
> Par exemple, elle est compatible avec les licences de type 
> ODblplus restrictives telles que 
> celle d’
> OpenStreetMap .
>
> Voir http://donnees.ville.montreal.qc.ca/licence/
>
> Lors de la journée de données ouvertes, samedi le 23 février, des
> représentants de la ville ont aussi offert de fournir les données de
> cadastre. Ceci contribuerait grandement à enrichir la carte de Montréal. Si
> des personnes sont intéressées à contribuer à ce dossier, veuillez
> communiquer avec moi.
>
> C'est une bonne nouvelle pour la communauté des données libres, les
> développeurs et tous ceux qui croient à une participation plus grande des
> citoyens. La ville de Montréal en modifiant sa licence contribue à mettre
> en place un éco-système ou les créateurs de données libres, les
> développeurs d'applications OpenSource, les gouvernements et les citoyens
> contribuent collectivement à enrichir l'information et le dialogue.
>
> Nous devrons bien sûr nous assurer avec le comité d'import de données que
> cette licences est compatible avec OSM.
>
> Nous espérons que cet exemple sera suivi par d'autres et notamment par le
> gouvernement du Québec et la ville de Québec.
>
> Pierre
>
>
> --
>
> After consultation with the community, the city of Montreal changed its 
> OpenData
> license the 28 February 2013. It is clearly stated on the page of the
> license:
>
> It is similar to a Creative Commons license CC-BY. For example, it is
> compatible with the more restrictive type ODbL licenses such as
> OpenStreetMap.
>
> See http://donnees.ville.montreal.qc.ca/licence/
>
> On the Open Data day, Saturday, February 23, representatives of the city
> have also offered to provide cadastre data. This would greatly contribute
> to enrich the map of Montreal. If people are interested in contributing to 
> this
> issue, please contact me.
>
> This is a good news for the community of free data, developers and all
> those who believe in a greater participation of citizens. The city of 
> Montreal,
> by amending its license, contributes to develop an eco-system where
> OpenData creators OpenSource developpers, governments and citizens 
> collectively
> contribute to enrich the information and dialogue.
>
> We should of course assure with the Import Workgroup that this license is
> compatible with OSM.
>
> We hope that this example will be followed by others, including the
> Government of Quebec and Quebec City.
>
> Pierre
>
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>
>
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Re: [Talk-ca] Licence de données ouvertes, Montréal

[Pierre Béland]

Voir la page suivante où le Conseil d'agglomération annonce la nouvelle 
licence. J'ai ajouté un commentaire pour remercier le Conseil et je vous invite 
à faire de même. C'est une façon de montrer que notre communauté est présente 
dans les débats.  Ajoutez comme signature, Contributeur OpenStreetMap.


http://donnees.ville.montreal.qc.ca/le-conseil-dagglomeration-adopte-une-nouvelle-licence-ouverte-et-une-premiere-politique-sur-louverture-des-donnees-de-la-ville-de-montreal/
 
Pierre 



>
> De : Pierre Béland 
>À : talk-ca  
>Envoyé le : Samedi 2 mars 2013 12h04
>Objet : [Talk-ca] Licence de données ouvertes, Montréal
> 
>
>ENGLISH TEXT FOLLOWS
>
>Après consultation de la communauté, la ville de Montréal a modifié sa licence 
>de données en date du 28 février 2013. Il est clairement stipulé sur la page 
>de la licence :
>
>Elle est similaire à une licence Creative Commons CC-BY. Par exemple, elle est 
>compatible avec les licences de type ODbl plus restrictives telles que celle 
>d’OpenStreetMap.
>
>Voir http://donnees.ville.montreal.qc.ca/licence/
>
>Lors de la journée de données ouvertes,
 samedi le 23 février, des représentants de la ville ont aussi offert de 
fournir les données de cadastre. Ceci contribuerait grandement à enrichir la 
carte de Montréal. Si des personnes sont intéressées à contribuer à ce dossier, 
veuillez communiquer avec moi.
>
>C'est une bonne nouvelle pour la communauté des données libres, les 
développeurs et tous ceux qui croient à une participation plus grande des 
citoyens. La ville de Montréal en modifiant sa licence contribue à 
mettre en place un éco-système ou les créateurs de données libres, les 
développeurs d'applications OpenSource, les gouvernements et les citoyens 
contribuent collectivement à enrichir l'information et le dialogue.
>
>Nous devrons bien sûr nous assurer avec le comité d'import de données que 
>cette licences est compatible avec OSM.
>
>Nous espérons que cet exemple sera suivi par d'autres et notamment par le 
>gouvernement du Québec et la ville de Québec.
>
> Pierre 
>
>--
>
>After consultation with the community, the city of Montreal changed its 
>OpenData license the28 February 2013. It is clearly stated on the page of the 
>license:
>
>It is similar to a Creative Commons license CC-BY. For example, it is 
>compatible with the more restrictive type ODbL licenses such as OpenStreetMap.
>
>See http://donnees.ville.montreal.qc.ca/licence/
>
>On the Open Data day, Saturday, February 23, representatives of the city have 
>also offered to provide cadastre data. This would greatly contribute to enrich 
>the map of Montreal. If people are interested in contributing to this issue, 
>please contact me.
>
>This is a good news for the community of free data, developers and all those 
>who believe in a greater participation of citizens. The city of Montreal, by 
>amending its license, contributes to develop an eco-system where 
>OpenDatacreators OpenSource developpers, governments and citizens collectively 
>contribute to enrich the information and dialogue.
>
>We should of course assure with the Import Workgroup that this license is 
>compatible with OSM. 
>
>We hope that this example will be followed by others, including the Government 
>of Quebec and Quebec City.
> 
>
>Pierre 
>
>___
>Talk-ca mailing list
>Talk-ca@openstreetmap.org
>http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ca
>
>
>___
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Re: [Talk-ca] Licence de données ouvertes, Montréal

[Paul Norman]

It’s good to see more municipalities opening up their data and open data 
catching on. Seeing more municipalities writing their own licenses isn’t so 
good.

 

Now, on to the more practical questions needed to use the data.

 

Could you provide a translation of 4.1 and 4.2 of their license? Are these 
identical to CC BY?

 

One of the problems with CC BY is the vagueness of the attribution. Some cities 
regard our attribution as not meeting the CC BY attribution requirements, 
although I guess that isn’t an issue here because they’ve explicitly said it’s 
compatible with ODbL, so I have to assume that meeting the ODbL attribution 
requirements (met by listing on 
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Contributors) is sufficient for them.

 

What’s the Import Workgroup you refer to?

 

Lastly, cadastral data is probably the least exciting type of data for OSM. 
Other data like roads, addresses and even buildings is more useful.

 

From: Pierre Béland [mailto:pierz...@yahoo.fr] 
Sent: Saturday, March 02, 2013 9:05 AM
To: talk-ca
Subject: [Talk-ca] Licence de données ouvertes, Montréal


After consultation with the community, the city of Montreal changed its 
OpenData license the 28 February 2013. It is clearly stated on the page of the 
license:

It is similar to a Creative Commons license CC-BY. For example, it is 
compatible with the more restrictive type ODbL licenses such as OpenStreetMap.

See http://donnees.ville.montreal.qc.ca/licence/

On the Open Data day, Saturday, February 23, representatives of the city have 
also offered to provide cadastre data. This would greatly contribute to enrich 
the map of Montreal. If people are interested in contributing to this issue, 
please contact me. 

This is a good news for the community of free data, developers and all those 
who believe in a greater participation of citizens. The city of Montreal, by 
amending its license, contributes to develop an eco-system where OpenData 
creators OpenSource developpers, governments and citizens collectively 
contribute to enrich the information and dialogue.

We should of course assure with the Import Workgroup that this license is 
compatible with OSM. 

We hope that this example will be followed by others, including the Government 
of Quebec and Quebec City.

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Re: [Talk-ca] Licence de données ouvertes, Montréal

[Pierre Béland]

Hi Paul

Hi refer to the Import list to be more precise.

For the translation, my contact at  city of Montreal is telling me that they 
are preparing an english translation but this is not yet available.

Below is my own translation of  4.1 and 4.2


Pierre 

4.0 Source Indication

4.1 You must include and maintain the following notice on your copies, 
modifications, translations and distributions of data:

 Contains data reproduced, modified, translated or distributed "as is" with 
permission of the City of Montreal.

4.2 If a product contains value-added data, you must include the following 
opinion on this product:

 This product contains licensed data given "as is" in accordance with the 
license agreement for the use of data from the City of Montreal. The granting 
of the license is not an endorsement of the product by the City of Montreal.



>
> De : Paul Norman 
>À : 'Pierre Béland' ; 'talk-ca'  
>Envoyé le : Samedi 2 mars 2013 15h58
>Objet : RE: [Talk-ca] Licence de données ouvertes, Montréal
> 
>
>It’s good to see more municipalities opening up their data and open data 
>catching on. Seeing more municipalities writing their own licenses isn’t so 
>good.
> 
>Now, on to the more practical questions needed to use the data.
> 
>Could you provide a translation of 4.1 and 4.2 of their license? Are these 
>identical to CC BY?
> 
>One of the problems with CC BY is the vagueness of the attribution. Some 
>cities regard our attribution as not meeting the CC BY attribution 
>requirements, although I guess that isn’t an issue here because they’ve 
>explicitly said it’s compatible with ODbL, so I have to assume that meeting 
>the ODbL attribution requirements (met by listing on 
>http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Contributors) is sufficient for them.
> 
>What’s the Import Workgroup you refer to?
> 
>Lastly, cadastral data is probably the least exciting type of data for OSM. 
>Other data like roads, addresses and even buildings is more useful.
> 
>From:Pierre Béland [mailto:pierz...@yahoo.fr] 
>Sent: Saturday, March 02, 2013 9:05 AM
>To: talk-ca
>Subject: [Talk-ca] Licence de données ouvertes, Montréal
>
>After consultation with thecommunity, the city of Montreal changed its 
>OpenData license the28 February 2013. It is clearly stated on the page of the 
>license:
>
>It is similar to a Creative Commons license CC-BY. For example, it is 
>compatible with the more restrictive type ODbL licenses such as OpenStreetMap.
>
>See http://donnees.ville.montreal.qc.ca/licence/
>
>On the Open Data day,Saturday, February 23, representatives of the city have 
>also offered to provide cadastre data. This would greatly contribute to enrich 
>the map of Montreal. If people are interested in contributing to this issue, 
>please contact me.
>
>This is a good news for the community of free data, developers and all those 
>who believe in a greater participation of citizens. The city of Montreal, by 
>amending its license, contributes to develop an eco-system where 
>OpenDatacreators OpenSource developpers, governments and citizens collectively 
>contribute to enrich the information and dialogue.
>
>We should of course assure with the Import Workgroup that this license is 
>compatible with OSM. 
>
>We hope that this example will be followed by others, including the Government 
>of Quebec and Quebec City.
>
>___
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Re: [Talk-ca] Licence de données ouvertes, Montréal

[Harald Kliems]

On Sat, Mar 2, 2013 at 3:58 PM, Paul Norman  wrote:

> Lastly, cadastral data is probably the least exciting type of data for OSM.
> Other data like roads, addresses and even buildings is more useful.
Oh, I thought cadastral data would include building outlines? At least
that's the case with the somewhat controversial French cadastre
imports. Did I get excited prematurely?

Cheers,
 Harald.

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Re: [Talk-ca] Licence de données ouvertes, Montréal

[Pierre Béland]

Harald,

It seems that these are property only an not house plans. But this can surely 
help for contiguous houses where it is hard to delimit.
See U. of McGill description
http://www.mcgill.ca/library/library-findinfo/maps/cadast

There is also the landuse file
See U. of McGill description
http://www.mcgill.ca/library/library-findinfo/maps/occupsol


The Geomatic service of city of Montreal already provides for research the 
cadastral plans (1 : 500) and landuse plans (1 : 1000).

Laval city has an online map with cadastral plan and ortophoto. Bluffing when 
you zoom-in and see street level plans. We see both property and building 
delimitations. Plus other infos.
see 
http://www.info.ville.laval.qc.ca/geomatique/citoyens/viewer.htm?Service=Citoyens_hv

Communaute urbaine of Montreal (The great Montreal) also have orthophotos.

I think that it would be worth looking more closely at this, see what is 
usefull and find solutions on how to exploit this information.

 
Pierre 



>
> De : Harald Kliems 
>À : Paul Norman  
>Cc : Pierre Béland ; talk-ca  
>Envoyé le : Dimanche 3 mars 2013 10h28
>Objet : Re: [Talk-ca] Licence de données ouvertes, Montréal
> 
>On Sat, Mar 2, 2013 at 3:58 PM, Paul Norman  wrote:
>
>> Lastly, cadastral data is probably the least exciting type of data for OSM.
>> Other data like roads, addresses and even buildings is more useful.
>Oh, I thought cadastral data would include building outlines? At least
>that's the case with the somewhat controversial French cadastre
>imports. Did I get excited prematurely?
>
>Cheers,
>Harald.
>
>
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Re: [Talk-ca] Licence de données ouvertes, Montréal

[Paul Norman]

> From: Harald Kliems [mailto:kli...@gmail.com]
> Sent: Sunday, March 03, 2013 7:28 AM
> Subject: Re: [Talk-ca] Licence de données ouvertes, Montréal
> 
> On Sat, Mar 2, 2013 at 3:58 PM, Paul Norman  wrote:
> 
> > Lastly, cadastral data is probably the least exciting type of data for
> OSM.
> > Other data like roads, addresses and even buildings is more useful.
> Oh, I thought cadastral data would include building outlines? At least
> that's the case with the somewhat controversial French cadastre imports.
> Did I get excited prematurely?

The exact definition varies, but the generally accepted definition in North
America is the zoning, tax or property lot information. It does not include
buildings, roads, waterways, sewer infrastructure, etc. 

It does not generally contain addresses because there is not a one to one
relationship between cadastral areas and addresses.

I was talking with several people last week about an integrated cadastral
fabric for BC. 

Cadastral information is actually fairly useful as open data, but most
people who would want to use it would be forced to get it from the city
anyways. There can be some information useful to OSM in it, but generally
most of the information is not relevant to us. I tried extracting useful
information from Surrey's cadastral layer and found it a lot of work.

I did a presentation on open data and OSM to an audience with many open data
publishers and I ranked the most useful data as orthophotos, addresses and
roads. Orthos because good ones are hard or expensive to get and cities
often have excellent ones. Addresses because they're useful for geocoding,
annoying to collect manually, and well suited to conflating with existing
data. Roads because the road network is generally considered to be one of
the most important parts of OSM, so even if the roads are only marginally
better than CanVec they can still be useful.


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