Re: [Talk-ca] OpenStreetMap at the Crossroads – The Map Room

[Begin Daniel]

+1

From: Adam Martin [mailto:s.adam.mar...@gmail.com]
Sent: Friday, 19 August, 2016 12:21
To: Stewart C. Russell
Cc: talk-ca@openstreetmap.org
Subject: Re: [Talk-ca] OpenStreetMap at the Crossroads – The Map Room


Wait! You mean a robot ... Made a mistake!!?? Say it ain't so!

Sarcasm aside, it's not surprising. The article speaks so highly of the robots 
and the crisis peeps over the crafters and the arm chair people. But it has 
been my experience that unless the importer is skilled and regularly consults 
the locals, the result is invariably bad for the map.

The demotion of craft mappers and arm chair mappers to, effectively, bottom 
feeders does a disservice to the map. I map my local area and arm chair 
locations far away. I do not think those contributions are damaging or niche. 
My local work is for things only a local could know. And my remote stuff is, 
while based on the satellite, things that need refinement (better shaping) or 
things that are missing that seems beneath some mappers (such as service 
roads). No one seems to want to survey this type of thing or to make sure a 
road flows correctly. This is especially true for some of the robot work. 
Things are imported and left that way with no regard for confirming that the 
new data appears reasonable. One place I went over had imported streets that 
were not connected together, so I fixed it from my position thousands of 
kilometers away. As long as one is conscious of the need to defer to the locals 
and preserve information already in place, there is nothing wrong with remote 
mapping.

On Aug 19, 2016 1:02 PM, "Stewart C. Russell" 
<scr...@gmail.com<mailto:scr...@gmail.com>> wrote:
This week's weeklyOSM has a bit about an over-zealous robot from Facebook:
Imports

  *   The Data Working Group (DWG) has 
reverted<http://forum.openstreetmap.org/viewtopic.php?pid=601374#p601374> 
Facebook’s undiscussed import of poor quality autorecognized streets in Egypt. 
See also the discussion<https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/41096427> on 
one of the reverted changesets.
cheers,
 Stewart

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Re: [Talk-ca] OpenStreetMap at the Crossroads – The Map Room

[Adam Martin]

Wait! You mean a robot ... Made a mistake!!?? Say it ain't so!

Sarcasm aside, it's not surprising. The article speaks so highly of the
robots and the crisis peeps over the crafters and the arm chair people. But
it has been my experience that unless the importer is skilled and regularly
consults the locals, the result is invariably bad for the map.

The demotion of craft mappers and arm chair mappers to, effectively, bottom
feeders does a disservice to the map. I map my local area and arm chair
locations far away. I do not think those contributions are damaging or
niche. My local work is for things only a local could know. And my remote
stuff is, while based on the satellite, things that need refinement (better
shaping) or things that are missing that seems beneath some mappers (such
as service roads). No one seems to want to survey this type of thing or to
make sure a road flows correctly. This is especially true for some of the
robot work. Things are imported and left that way with no regard for
confirming that the new data appears reasonable. One place I went over had
imported streets that were not connected together, so I fixed it from my
position thousands of kilometers away. As long as one is conscious of the
need to defer to the locals and preserve information already in place,
there is nothing wrong with remote mapping.

On Aug 19, 2016 1:02 PM, "Stewart C. Russell"  wrote:

> This week's weeklyOSM has a bit about an over-zealous robot from Facebook:
>
> Imports
>
>- The Data Working Group (DWG) has reverted
>
>Facebook’s undiscussed import of poor quality autorecognized streets in
>Egypt. See also the discussion
> on one of the
>reverted changesets.
>
> cheers,
>  Stewart
>
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Re: [Talk-ca] OpenStreetMap at the Crossroads – The Map Room

[Stewart C. Russell]

This week's weeklyOSM has a bit about an over-zealous robot from Facebook:


Imports

  * The Data Working Group (DWG) has reverted

Facebook’s undiscussed import of poor quality autorecognized
streets in Egypt. See also the discussion
 on one of the
reverted changesets.

cheers,
 Stewart
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Re: [Talk-ca] OpenStreetMap at the Crossroads – The Map Room

[Paul Norman]

On 8/17/2016 3:44 PM, Laura O'Grady wrote:

I recently exchanged messages via OSM with a "robot mapper" who did a bunch of 
imports in my areas. I asked this person some questions about their edits, pointed out 
some errors and invited them to present their work at a local OSM meeting. After a few 
exchanges I received no further response.

I don't know what recourse there is for this (imports gone astray


The first step is reaching out to them by changeset comments or other 
means, which you've tried. If this fails and they are non-responsive or 
you can't resolve the issue you can escalate it to the Data Working 
Group by emailing d...@osmfoundation.org. We have some additional tools 
we can use.


Paul Norman
For the Data Working Group

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Re: [Talk-ca] OpenStreetMap at the Crossroads – The Map Room

[john whelan]

There are guidelines on imports and change sets can be deleted if they
aren't followed but if you leave it too long it gets messy as others add to
the map.

Cheerio John

On 17 August 2016 at 18:44, Laura O'Grady  wrote:

> Interesting post [1] following up on Michal Migurski's [2] comments,
> "openstreetmap: robots, crisis, and craft mappers", which were based on his
> thoughts after attending SOTM Seattle. It's basically a treatise
> categorizing mappers and (inadvertently) creating a hierarchy of value or
> importance.
>
> I recently exchanged messages via OSM with a "robot mapper" who did a
> bunch of imports in my areas. I asked this person some questions about
> their edits, pointed out some errors and invited them to present their work
> at a local OSM meeting. After a few exchanges I received no further
> response.
>
> I don't know what recourse there is for this (imports gone astray) or if
> OSM plans to address any of the issues outlined in the linked blog posts in
> the future. But I thought this community might want to discuss these ideas
> and the ensuing discussions in their respective comment sections.
>
> Laura
>
> -
> Laura O'Grady
> la...@lauraogrady.ca
>
> [1] http://www.maproomblog.com/2016/08/openstreetmap-at-the-crossroads/
> [2] http://mike.teczno.com/notes/openstreetmap-at-a-crossroads.html
>
>
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[Talk-ca] OpenStreetMap at the Crossroads – The Map Room

[Laura O'Grady]

Interesting post [1] following up on Michal Migurski's [2] comments, 
"openstreetmap: robots, crisis, and craft mappers", which were based on his 
thoughts after attending SOTM Seattle. It's basically a treatise categorizing 
mappers and (inadvertently) creating a hierarchy of value or importance. 

I recently exchanged messages via OSM with a "robot mapper" who did a bunch of 
imports in my areas. I asked this person some questions about their edits, 
pointed out some errors and invited them to present their work at a local OSM 
meeting. After a few exchanges I received no further response. 

I don't know what recourse there is for this (imports gone astray) or if OSM 
plans to address any of the issues outlined in the linked blog posts in the 
future. But I thought this community might want to discuss these ideas and the 
ensuing discussions in their respective comment sections.

Laura

-
Laura O'Grady
la...@lauraogrady.ca

[1] http://www.maproomblog.com/2016/08/openstreetmap-at-the-crossroads/
[2] http://mike.teczno.com/notes/openstreetmap-at-a-crossroads.html


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