Re: [Talk-ca] Using OpenStreetMap on a daily basis
At 06:13 AM 2013-07-09, Connors, Bernie (SNB) wrote: > IMHO all of your issues could be solved with applications of the OSM >data. The goal of OSM is to create an open data set that can be used >by anybody to solve all of the issues in your list. The goal of OSM >is not to create a replacement for the Google Maps website but to >create an alternative to the Google Maps data. All of your issues >could be addressed with OSM data and some programming. I expect some >or all of your issues have already been addressed. For example the >OSMR website is great for routing and driving directions - >http://map.project-osrm.org/ I had never heard of that website as well. I didn't realize there were other websites that was utilizing the data but that would only make sense. So there should be some links placed on the OSM website shuffling folks off elsewhere. Tony ___ Talk-ca mailing list Talk-ca@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ca
Re: [Talk-ca] Using OpenStreetMap on a daily basis
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On 2013-07-09 00:41, Guillaume Pratte wrote: > Hello, > > I have been a serious user of OpenStreetMap for less than six > months, and I am proud to recently have achieved my one hundredth > contribution to the project. I really love the OpenStreetMap > project, and I would like to replace my daily usage of Google Maps > with OpenStreetMap. I wondered the same when I first got interested / active in OSM. It's unfortunate osm.org is not a bette rshowcase of everything possible. I think Bernie says it best: On 2013-07-09 08:13, Connors, Bernie (SNB) wrote: > IMHO all of your issues could be solved with applications of the > OSM data. The goal of OSM is to create an open data set that can > be used by anybody to solve all of the issues in your list. The > goal of OSM is not to create a replacement for the Google Maps > website but to create an alternative to the Google Maps data. Emphasis on **data**. If you are comparing http://maps.google.com to http://openstreetmap.org, it's bound to be frustrating/dissapointing. When I show http://osm.org, I always emphasize it's *only one way to render the huge amount of data in OSM* - defintely not a replacement or even comparable to Google Maps. It also took me a while to understand this, but then everything else made more sense :) [...] > First point: searching. Second point: accessing POI information. Someone did this by using the XAPI OSM server: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/User:Plenz/OSM-POI http://www.lenz-online.de/cgi-bin/osmpoi/osmpoi.pl > Why do we input address, business hours and phone numbers on shops > and restaurants if the map cannot easily display this information > to the user? Why do I have to show the map's data in order to have > information on a point of interest? On a PC I just use nominatim to search for a place [1], then use the "detail" link [2]: http://pix.toile-libre.org/upload/original/1373396748.png The point of adding this information is to improve *the data*, not the maps. Regarding searching nearby POIs (such as a cafe), I use Wheelmap on Android, it works very nicely (including routing and sharing): https://f-droid.org/repository/browse/?fdfilter=wheel&fdid=org.wheelmap.android.online > Third point: maximum zoom level. Some area are densely populated, > and OpenStreetMap's current zoom level is not enough to see all > details of the map. [...] Agreed :( I believe it's a hardware/resources limit, but the data should be enough to render higher details. > Fourth point: sharing a point of interest. [...] I get an URL > similar to this that I can share: > http://www.openstreetmap.org/?way=225637513 That's what I do on a PC except I use the Nominatim search. > Fifth point: routing. Why is there absolutely no routing > implemented on the main OpenStreetMap website? This is I concede a > naïve question, as it might be simply because of limited server > resources. Once we have our new servers, is this something we want > to implement, as a community? Again, resources? I would say yes, we need to show as much as we can of all that OSM can do. > I really like the OpenStreetMap project, and I dream to be able to > use it as a primary map instead of Google Maps. I feel resolving > these issues would bring me many steps closer to making that dream > come true. An important step to doing this is to completely remove Google Maps from your mobile device. This also seems coherent with keeping your datased "pure". > What do you all think? Do you also have showstoppers that prevent > you to use OpenStreetMap as your primary and daily map? Bus / public transportation routing is my major blocking point at this time. Before becoming a more active OSM contributor I used this funcitonality of Google Maps, so it's harder now not to miss it. I am hoping the STM beta site currently using OSM + custom data will take care of this (incluing mobile). F. - -- Fabián Rodríguez http://openstreetmap.magicfab.ca -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.12 (GNU/Linux) Comment: PGP/Mime available upon request Comment: Using GnuPG with Icedove - http://www.enigmail.net/ iEYEARECAAYFAlHcboUACgkQfUcTXFrypNWEqgCg8/FQs+uFrSM6rrRsXXSIr4yE NskAoNQt42mZJmZNSVySzhbuRgD34AR5 =WUSF -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Talk-ca mailing list Talk-ca@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ca
Re: [Talk-ca] Using OpenStreetMap on a daily basis
Completely agreed... Daniel -Original Message- From: Matthew Buchanan [mailto:matthew.ian.bucha...@gmail.com] Sent: July-09-13 12:04 To: OSM Talk-ca Subject: Re: [Talk-ca] Using OpenStreetMap on a daily basis I have been using OSM for a couple years now (coming up on 1000 changesets!) and this is the first I've heard of the OSMR website. Most new users will probably go to http://www.openstreetmap.org/ and not go any farther. I think the default page needs to be revamped and the default renderer improved. I agree with all of Guillaume's 4 points. My biggest pet peeve is that trunk roads are green when they should be red, primary roads should be dark orange. -- Matthew Buchanan -- Kamloops, BC On Tue, Jul 9, 2013 at 8:55 AM, Harald Kliems wrote: > OpenStreetBrowser offers routing and clickable POIs. Higher zoom > levels were experimentally implemented on a server by the French OSM > community but I think it is no longer online. I can't remember the > URL, but you should be able to find the related discussion in the > archives of the general talk list (search for z19). Mapquest might also do some of the things requested. > > With regards to what OSM and the OSM homepage are or aren't : Bernie > certainly has expressed one view that is widely held in the community. > But there are other positions as well, evidenced by the fact that > discussions like the one in this thread keep popping up. > > Harald (who is also sad that for his everyday geodata needs he often > ends up using Google) > > > On Tuesday, July 9, 2013, Connors, Bernie (SNB) > > wrote: >> Guillaume, >> >> IMHO all of your issues could be solved with applications of >> the OSM data. The goal of OSM is to create an open data set that can >> be used by anybody to solve all of the issues in your list. The goal >> of OSM is not to create a replacement for the Google Maps website but >> to create an alternative to the Google Maps data. All of your issues >> could be addressed with OSM data and some programming. I expect some >> or all of your issues have already been addressed. For example the >> OSMR website is great for routing and driving directions - >> http://map.project-osrm.org/ >> >> Let's hear from the rest of the OSM talk-ca community. Who >> has suggestions for Guillaume's other issues? >> >> Bernie. >> >> -----Original Message- >> From: Guillaume Pratte [mailto:guilla...@guillaumepratte.net] >> Sent: Tuesday, 2013-07-09 1:42 AM >> To: talk-ca@openstreetmap.org OpenStreetMap >> Subject: [Talk-ca] Using OpenStreetMap on a daily basis >> >> Hello, >> >> I have been a serious user of OpenStreetMap for less than six months, >> and I am proud to recently have achieved my one hundredth >> contribution to the project. I really love the OpenStreetMap project, >> and I would like to replace my daily usage of Google Maps with OpenStreetMap. >> >> But it just seems I cannot. Anybody else feel the same issues? >> >> I'll give a few concrete examples why, humbly hoping that my words >> can encourage changes to the main website. >> >> First point: searching. I have OpenStreetMap zoomed in to some region >> of Montreal, Canada. I input "café", looking for a coffee shop. I get >> results from Nominatim, inviting me to visit a village in Brazil >> named "Café" or even the "Café point" in Antarctica. While these >> search results awaken my globetrotter's desire to explore the world, >> they frustrate me at the same time. Why couldn't Nominatim priorize >> results from the bounding box or surrounding? Why can't OpenStreetMap >> show me results on the map like the OverPass API does, performing a >> search on the tag amenity=cafe and showing the results on the map? >> >> Second point: accessing POI information. I cannot click on point of >> interests (POI) to get more info about them. Why do we input address, >> business hours and phone numbers on shops and restaurants if the map >> cannot easily display this information to the user? Why do I have to >> show the map's data in order to have information on a point of interest? >> >> Third point: maximum zoom level. Some area are densely populated, and >> OpenStreetMap's current zoom level is not enough to see all details >> of the map. This is really unfortunate. Example: >> http://osm.org/go/cIrNs6Qzp-- What are the restaurant surrounding the >> Hard Rock Café on this map? I have to use the editor to be able to zoom and see all data. >> >> Fourth p
Re: [Talk-ca] Using OpenStreetMap on a daily basis
I have been using OSM for a couple years now (coming up on 1000 changesets!) and this is the first I've heard of the OSMR website. Most new users will probably go to http://www.openstreetmap.org/ and not go any farther. I think the default page needs to be revamped and the default renderer improved. I agree with all of Guillaume's 4 points. My biggest pet peeve is that trunk roads are green when they should be red, primary roads should be dark orange. -- Matthew Buchanan -- Kamloops, BC On Tue, Jul 9, 2013 at 8:55 AM, Harald Kliems wrote: > OpenStreetBrowser offers routing and clickable POIs. Higher zoom levels were > experimentally implemented on a server by the French OSM community but I > think it is no longer online. I can't remember the URL, but you should be > able to find the related discussion in the archives of the general talk list > (search for z19). Mapquest might also do some of the things requested. > > With regards to what OSM and the OSM homepage are or aren't : Bernie > certainly has expressed one view that is widely held in the community. But > there are other positions as well, evidenced by the fact that discussions > like the one in this thread keep popping up. > > Harald (who is also sad that for his everyday geodata needs he often ends up > using Google) > > > On Tuesday, July 9, 2013, Connors, Bernie (SNB) > wrote: >> Guillaume, >> >> IMHO all of your issues could be solved with applications of the >> OSM data. The goal of OSM is to create an open data set that can be used by >> anybody to solve all of the issues in your list. The goal of OSM is not to >> create a replacement for the Google Maps website but to create an >> alternative to the Google Maps data. All of your issues could be addressed >> with OSM data and some programming. I expect some or all of your issues >> have already been addressed. For example the OSMR website is great for >> routing and driving directions - http://map.project-osrm.org/ >> >> Let's hear from the rest of the OSM talk-ca community. Who has >> suggestions for Guillaume's other issues? >> >> Bernie. >> >> -Original Message- >> From: Guillaume Pratte [mailto:guilla...@guillaumepratte.net] >> Sent: Tuesday, 2013-07-09 1:42 AM >> To: talk-ca@openstreetmap.org OpenStreetMap >> Subject: [Talk-ca] Using OpenStreetMap on a daily basis >> >> Hello, >> >> I have been a serious user of OpenStreetMap for less than six months, and >> I am proud to recently have achieved my one hundredth contribution to the >> project. I really love the OpenStreetMap project, and I would like to >> replace my daily usage of Google Maps with OpenStreetMap. >> >> But it just seems I cannot. Anybody else feel the same issues? >> >> I'll give a few concrete examples why, humbly hoping that my words can >> encourage changes to the main website. >> >> First point: searching. I have OpenStreetMap zoomed in to some region of >> Montreal, Canada. I input "café", looking for a coffee shop. I get results >> from Nominatim, inviting me to visit a village in Brazil named "Café" or >> even the "Café point" in Antarctica. While these search results awaken my >> globetrotter's desire to explore the world, they frustrate me at the same >> time. Why couldn't Nominatim priorize results from the bounding box or >> surrounding? Why can't OpenStreetMap show me results on the map like the >> OverPass API does, performing a search on the tag amenity=cafe and showing >> the results on the map? >> >> Second point: accessing POI information. I cannot click on point of >> interests (POI) to get more info about them. Why do we input address, >> business hours and phone numbers on shops and restaurants if the map cannot >> easily display this information to the user? Why do I have to show the map's >> data in order to have information on a point of interest? >> >> Third point: maximum zoom level. Some area are densely populated, and >> OpenStreetMap's current zoom level is not enough to see all details of the >> map. This is really unfortunate. Example: http://osm.org/go/cIrNs6Qzp-- What >> are the restaurant surrounding the Hard Rock Café on this map? I have to use >> the editor to be able to zoom and see all data. >> >> Fourth point: sharing a point of interest. There should be an easy way to >> do that. I have found a (complicated) way to do it, which is all but obvious >> to newcomers. Here is how: >> >> . Using the layer icon at the top right of the map, I sele
Re: [Talk-ca] Using OpenStreetMap on a daily basis
OpenStreetBrowser offers routing and clickable POIs. Higher zoom levels were experimentally implemented on a server by the French OSM community but I think it is no longer online. I can't remember the URL, but you should be able to find the related discussion in the archives of the general talk list (search for z19). Mapquest might also do some of the things requested. With regards to what OSM and the OSM homepage are or aren't : Bernie certainly has expressed one view that is widely held in the community. But there are other positions as well, evidenced by the fact that discussions like the one in this thread keep popping up. Harald (who is also sad that for his everyday geodata needs he often ends up using Google) On Tuesday, July 9, 2013, Connors, Bernie (SNB) wrote: > Guillaume, > > IMHO all of your issues could be solved with applications of the OSM data. The goal of OSM is to create an open data set that can be used by anybody to solve all of the issues in your list. The goal of OSM is not to create a replacement for the Google Maps website but to create an alternative to the Google Maps data. All of your issues could be addressed with OSM data and some programming. I expect some or all of your issues have already been addressed. For example the OSMR website is great for routing and driving directions - http://map.project-osrm.org/ > > Let's hear from the rest of the OSM talk-ca community. Who has suggestions for Guillaume's other issues? > > Bernie. > > -Original Message- > From: Guillaume Pratte [mailto:guilla...@guillaumepratte.net] > Sent: Tuesday, 2013-07-09 1:42 AM > To: talk-ca@openstreetmap.org OpenStreetMap > Subject: [Talk-ca] Using OpenStreetMap on a daily basis > > Hello, > > I have been a serious user of OpenStreetMap for less than six months, and I am proud to recently have achieved my one hundredth contribution to the project. I really love the OpenStreetMap project, and I would like to replace my daily usage of Google Maps with OpenStreetMap. > > But it just seems I cannot. Anybody else feel the same issues? > > I'll give a few concrete examples why, humbly hoping that my words can encourage changes to the main website. > > First point: searching. I have OpenStreetMap zoomed in to some region of Montreal, Canada. I input "café", looking for a coffee shop. I get results from Nominatim, inviting me to visit a village in Brazil named "Café" or even the "Café point" in Antarctica. While these search results awaken my globetrotter's desire to explore the world, they frustrate me at the same time. Why couldn't Nominatim priorize results from the bounding box or surrounding? Why can't OpenStreetMap show me results on the map like the OverPass API does, performing a search on the tag amenity=cafe and showing the results on the map? > > Second point: accessing POI information. I cannot click on point of interests (POI) to get more info about them. Why do we input address, business hours and phone numbers on shops and restaurants if the map cannot easily display this information to the user? Why do I have to show the map's data in order to have information on a point of interest? > > Third point: maximum zoom level. Some area are densely populated, and OpenStreetMap's current zoom level is not enough to see all details of the map. This is really unfortunate. Example: http://osm.org/go/cIrNs6Qzp--What are the restaurant surrounding the Hard Rock Café on this map? I have to use the editor to be able to zoom and see all data. > > Fourth point: sharing a point of interest. There should be an easy way to do that. I have found a (complicated) way to do it, which is all but obvious to newcomers. Here is how: > > . Using the layer icon at the top right of the map, I select "Browse Map Data"; > . I select the object I want to share (which is not always possible; sometimes it is "hidden" behind a residential area or similar); > . I click on "Details" > . On the resulting page, I click on "View way on larger map" > . I get an URL similar to this that I can share: http://www.openstreetmap.org/?way=225637513 > > Fifth point: routing. Why is there absolutely no routing implemented on the main OpenStreetMap website? This is I concede a naïve question, as it might be simply because of limited server resources. Once we have our new servers, is this something we want to implement, as a community? > > I really like the OpenStreetMap project, and I dream to be able to use it as a primary map instead of Google Maps. I feel resolving these issues would bring me many steps closer to making that dream come true. > > What do you all think? Do you also have sho
Re: [Talk-ca] Using OpenStreetMap on a daily basis
Guillaume, IMHO all of your issues could be solved with applications of the OSM data. The goal of OSM is to create an open data set that can be used by anybody to solve all of the issues in your list. The goal of OSM is not to create a replacement for the Google Maps website but to create an alternative to the Google Maps data. All of your issues could be addressed with OSM data and some programming. I expect some or all of your issues have already been addressed. For example the OSMR website is great for routing and driving directions - http://map.project-osrm.org/ Let's hear from the rest of the OSM talk-ca community. Who has suggestions for Guillaume's other issues? Bernie. -Original Message- From: Guillaume Pratte [mailto:guilla...@guillaumepratte.net] Sent: Tuesday, 2013-07-09 1:42 AM To: talk-ca@openstreetmap.org OpenStreetMap Subject: [Talk-ca] Using OpenStreetMap on a daily basis Hello, I have been a serious user of OpenStreetMap for less than six months, and I am proud to recently have achieved my one hundredth contribution to the project. I really love the OpenStreetMap project, and I would like to replace my daily usage of Google Maps with OpenStreetMap. But it just seems I cannot. Anybody else feel the same issues? I'll give a few concrete examples why, humbly hoping that my words can encourage changes to the main website. First point: searching. I have OpenStreetMap zoomed in to some region of Montreal, Canada. I input "café", looking for a coffee shop. I get results from Nominatim, inviting me to visit a village in Brazil named "Café" or even the "Café point" in Antarctica. While these search results awaken my globetrotter's desire to explore the world, they frustrate me at the same time. Why couldn't Nominatim priorize results from the bounding box or surrounding? Why can't OpenStreetMap show me results on the map like the OverPass API does, performing a search on the tag amenity=cafe and showing the results on the map? Second point: accessing POI information. I cannot click on point of interests (POI) to get more info about them. Why do we input address, business hours and phone numbers on shops and restaurants if the map cannot easily display this information to the user? Why do I have to show the map's data in order to have information on a point of interest? Third point: maximum zoom level. Some area are densely populated, and OpenStreetMap's current zoom level is not enough to see all details of the map. This is really unfortunate. Example: http://osm.org/go/cIrNs6Qzp-- What are the restaurant surrounding the Hard Rock Café on this map? I have to use the editor to be able to zoom and see all data. Fourth point: sharing a point of interest. There should be an easy way to do that. I have found a (complicated) way to do it, which is all but obvious to newcomers. Here is how: . Using the layer icon at the top right of the map, I select "Browse Map Data"; . I select the object I want to share (which is not always possible; sometimes it is "hidden" behind a residential area or similar); . I click on "Details" . On the resulting page, I click on "View way on larger map" . I get an URL similar to this that I can share: http://www.openstreetmap.org/?way=225637513 Fifth point: routing. Why is there absolutely no routing implemented on the main OpenStreetMap website? This is I concede a naïve question, as it might be simply because of limited server resources. Once we have our new servers, is this something we want to implement, as a community? I really like the OpenStreetMap project, and I dream to be able to use it as a primary map instead of Google Maps. I feel resolving these issues would bring me many steps closer to making that dream come true. What do you all think? Do you also have showstoppers that prevent you to use OpenStreetMap as your primary and daily map? Guillaume ___ Talk-ca mailing list Talk-ca@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ca ___ Talk-ca mailing list Talk-ca@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ca
Re: [Talk-ca] Using OpenStreetMap on a daily basis
I'm very new to OSM editing, and I feel exactly the same way. In fact until reading this email I wasn't even aware that you could see the map data at all without editing the map, so a lot of casual viewers would probably never realise that data was even there. As for the searching, I just did a search for Safeway, zoomed in on Winnipeg, and the top few results were from Colorado, Victoria (as in Australia), and then various other places far away from where I was on the map. ~Lianne On 9 July 2013 01:02, Tony Toews wrote: > At 10:41 PM 2013-07-08, Guillaume Pratte wrote: > >I really love the OpenStreetMap project, and I would > >like to replace my daily usage of Google Maps with OpenStreetMap. > > I quite like the OSMAnd tool on the Android platform on my 10" tablet. > Very, very nice when traveling to have a map with lots of extra screen > space. But it too has it's limitations which I'm sure they are working on > as they can get to it. > > > >Second point: accessing POI information. I cannot click on point of > >interests (POI) to get more info about them. Why do we input address, > >business hours and phone numbers on shops and restaurants if the map > >cannot easily display this information to the user? > > Excellent point. > > Hmm, but when I click on the editable map I don't even see any of the > extra fields such as address, phone number or website. I'm sure there's a > way of doing it which I have to look up in help. But I'm not sure what I > should have to go that far? Will a regular person who just wants to fix a > few things up. > > Tony > > ___ > Talk-ca mailing list > Talk-ca@openstreetmap.org > http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ca > > ___ Talk-ca mailing list Talk-ca@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ca
Re: [Talk-ca] Using OpenStreetMap on a daily basis
At 10:41 PM 2013-07-08, Guillaume Pratte wrote: >I really love the OpenStreetMap project, and I would >like to replace my daily usage of Google Maps with OpenStreetMap. I quite like the OSMAnd tool on the Android platform on my 10" tablet. Very, very nice when traveling to have a map with lots of extra screen space. But it too has it's limitations which I'm sure they are working on as they can get to it. >Second point: accessing POI information. I cannot click on point of >interests (POI) to get more info about them. Why do we input address, >business hours and phone numbers on shops and restaurants if the map >cannot easily display this information to the user? Excellent point. Hmm, but when I click on the editable map I don't even see any of the extra fields such as address, phone number or website. I'm sure there's a way of doing it which I have to look up in help. But I'm not sure what I should have to go that far? Will a regular person who just wants to fix a few things up. Tony ___ Talk-ca mailing list Talk-ca@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ca
[Talk-ca] Using OpenStreetMap on a daily basis
Hello, I have been a serious user of OpenStreetMap for less than six months, and I am proud to recently have achieved my one hundredth contribution to the project. I really love the OpenStreetMap project, and I would like to replace my daily usage of Google Maps with OpenStreetMap. But it just seems I cannot. Anybody else feel the same issues? I'll give a few concrete examples why, humbly hoping that my words can encourage changes to the main website. First point: searching. I have OpenStreetMap zoomed in to some region of Montreal, Canada. I input "café", looking for a coffee shop. I get results from Nominatim, inviting me to visit a village in Brazil named "Café" or even the "Café point" in Antarctica. While these search results awaken my globetrotter's desire to explore the world, they frustrate me at the same time. Why couldn't Nominatim priorize results from the bounding box or surrounding? Why can't OpenStreetMap show me results on the map like the OverPass API does, performing a search on the tag amenity=cafe and showing the results on the map? Second point: accessing POI information. I cannot click on point of interests (POI) to get more info about them. Why do we input address, business hours and phone numbers on shops and restaurants if the map cannot easily display this information to the user? Why do I have to show the map's data in order to have information on a point of interest? Third point: maximum zoom level. Some area are densely populated, and OpenStreetMap's current zoom level is not enough to see all details of the map. This is really unfortunate. Example: http://osm.org/go/cIrNs6Qzp-- What are the restaurant surrounding the Hard Rock Café on this map? I have to use the editor to be able to zoom and see all data. Fourth point: sharing a point of interest. There should be an easy way to do that. I have found a (complicated) way to do it, which is all but obvious to newcomers. Here is how: • Using the layer icon at the top right of the map, I select "Browse Map Data"; • I select the object I want to share (which is not always possible; sometimes it is "hidden" behind a residential area or similar); • I click on "Details" • On the resulting page, I click on "View way on larger map" • I get an URL similar to this that I can share: http://www.openstreetmap.org/?way=225637513 Fifth point: routing. Why is there absolutely no routing implemented on the main OpenStreetMap website? This is I concede a naïve question, as it might be simply because of limited server resources. Once we have our new servers, is this something we want to implement, as a community? I really like the OpenStreetMap project, and I dream to be able to use it as a primary map instead of Google Maps. I feel resolving these issues would bring me many steps closer to making that dream come true. What do you all think? Do you also have showstoppers that prevent you to use OpenStreetMap as your primary and daily map? Guillaume ___ Talk-ca mailing list Talk-ca@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ca
