Re: [Talk-ca] canvec / shp-to-osm -multi-polygons -residential area

[steggink]

Quoting Sam Vekemans acrosscanadatra...@gmail.com:

 Ok,
 for the residential area, i have the tags in the relation, and not on
 the outer, nor on the inner.

 Is that OK?
 It still renders (i would think)

 Sam


Hi Sam,

The Multipolygon wiki page [1] explains it better than I could do:

The intended use of multipolygons is this:

 * Tags describing the multipolygon should go on the outer way.
 * If the inner way represents something in itself (e.g. a forest  
with a hole where the hole is a lake), then the inner way may be  
tagged as such.
 * Otherwise the inner way(s) should be left untagged.
 * The direction of the ways does not matter.
 * If there is no role given outer is assumed, this makes defining  
boundaries easier as no explicit outer role is needed for all the  
elements (which can be in the hundreds). But to avoid ambiguity the  
role should be set in case there are inner elements.
 * name tags of the relation are rendered by mapnik but not by  
osmarender.

Frank

[1] http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Multipolygon


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Re: [Talk-ca] canvec / shp-to-osm

[Frank Steggink]

Hi Sam,

I've just downloaded some CanVec data, and had a look at sheets 031I07 
and -08. I wonder what you mean by uploading all sub-residential 
files. I understand that the data is separated over multiple files, 
because of certain limitations. In the residential OSM files I also see 
no polygons with a multipolygon relationship of outer. So,this means 
that the outlines of places like Trois-Rivieres and others are missing. 
The same issue is going on with wooded areas. The data is converted with 
Canvec2OSM version 0.9.4.

I had a closer look at the raster file (from Toporama) of sheet 031I08, 
because there is much less data, and I looked at the village of Gentilly 
(see [1]). This is in the center of the sheet. The raster file suggests 
that a multipolygon relationship should be in place, but the vector file 
(BS_1370009_2_Residential_area0.osm) shows only the two inner polygons. 
Are the outer polygons stored in a different file, or are they not 
converted at all? The shape of the outer polygon doesn't look to be 
complex, so I don't think the max_nodes threshold would be exceeded. 
Looking at the OSM file: there is only one multipolygon relationship in 
it, but it only refers to the two inner polygons, and not to any outer 
polygon at all.

One note regarding multipolygons: the inner polygons shouldn't have any 
tags at all. See [2].

Anyways, some clarifications about what is going on, and how the data 
should be interpreted would be welcome. I'm reluctant to import data 
which looks not correct. For the rest, keep up your good work :)

Regards,

Frank

[1] http://osm.org/go/cKHX9ApT-
[2] http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Multipolygon

Sam Vekemans wrote:
 Hi Richard,
 i think your refering to the large multi-polygons such as
 'residential_area', and it 'appears' to be inverted.

 Here's the majic; when all the sub- residential.osm files are uploaded
 to OSM, it renders correctly.
 In JOSM, you need to zoom out and load the area, to see it.

 I think i'll load a region of NFLD in the next cuple days to test my 
 hypothises.

 Sam

 ps. I cc'd talk-ca as this was mentioned b4.

 On 9/22/09, Richard Weait rich...@weait.com wrote:
   
 Dear gentlemen,

 I've had a look at some of Sam's test areas.  In 1435 files there are
 zero occurrences of Relation=outer.

 So at some point we started calling relation=outer, relation=inner or
 completely dropping outer relations by mistake.

 I do still see rare nested ways, but both are marked as inner, and are
 on separate layers after --maxnodes

 I've run 0.6.1 again with an old rules file and see the same problem
 so I believe that this is an issue in shp-to-osm.

 Ian can you check a 0.5.0 - generated file and see if it contains any
 outer?

 Best regards,
 Richard

 


   


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Re: [Talk-ca] canvec / shp-to-osm

[Frank Steggink]

Hi,

I think to know what is going on. I've tried to convert the residential 
areas of 031I08 myself, and I got an OSM file with an outer polygon. 
However, the outer polygon has no tags. Also, it looks that Sam's batch 
files run shp-to-osm with the -t parameter, which suppresses the output 
of features without any tags.

Solution:
* shp-to-osm needs to be adjusted, so that the outer polygon will get 
the tags, but the inner polygons will not.
* shp-to-osm should be called without the -t parameter.
Is this possible?

Frank

Frank Steggink wrote:
 Hi Sam,

 I've just downloaded some CanVec data, and had a look at sheets 031I07 
 and -08. I wonder what you mean by uploading all sub-residential 
 files. I understand that the data is separated over multiple files, 
 because of certain limitations. In the residential OSM files I also see 
 no polygons with a multipolygon relationship of outer. So,this means 
 that the outlines of places like Trois-Rivieres and others are missing. 
 The same issue is going on with wooded areas. The data is converted with 
 Canvec2OSM version 0.9.4.

 I had a closer look at the raster file (from Toporama) of sheet 031I08, 
 because there is much less data, and I looked at the village of Gentilly 
 (see [1]). This is in the center of the sheet. The raster file suggests 
 that a multipolygon relationship should be in place, but the vector file 
 (BS_1370009_2_Residential_area0.osm) shows only the two inner polygons. 
 Are the outer polygons stored in a different file, or are they not 
 converted at all? The shape of the outer polygon doesn't look to be 
 complex, so I don't think the max_nodes threshold would be exceeded. 
 Looking at the OSM file: there is only one multipolygon relationship in 
 it, but it only refers to the two inner polygons, and not to any outer 
 polygon at all.

 One note regarding multipolygons: the inner polygons shouldn't have any 
 tags at all. See [2].

 Anyways, some clarifications about what is going on, and how the data 
 should be interpreted would be welcome. I'm reluctant to import data 
 which looks not correct. For the rest, keep up your good work :)

 Regards,

 Frank

 [1] http://osm.org/go/cKHX9ApT-
 [2] http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Multipolygon

 Sam Vekemans wrote:
   
 Hi Richard,
 i think your refering to the large multi-polygons such as
 'residential_area', and it 'appears' to be inverted.

 Here's the majic; when all the sub- residential.osm files are uploaded
 to OSM, it renders correctly.
 In JOSM, you need to zoom out and load the area, to see it.

 I think i'll load a region of NFLD in the next cuple days to test my 
 hypothises.

 Sam

 ps. I cc'd talk-ca as this was mentioned b4.

 On 9/22/09, Richard Weait rich...@weait.com wrote:
   
 
 Dear gentlemen,

 I've had a look at some of Sam's test areas.  In 1435 files there are
 zero occurrences of Relation=outer.

 So at some point we started calling relation=outer, relation=inner or
 completely dropping outer relations by mistake.

 I do still see rare nested ways, but both are marked as inner, and are
 on separate layers after --maxnodes

 I've run 0.6.1 again with an old rules file and see the same problem
 so I believe that this is an issue in shp-to-osm.

 Ian can you check a 0.5.0 - generated file and see if it contains any
 outer?

 Best regards,
 Richard

 
   
   
 


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Re: [Talk-ca] canvec / shp-to-osm

[Sam Vekemans]

On Sun, Oct 25, 2009 at 3:15 PM, Frank Steggink stegg...@steggink.orgwrote:

 Hi,

 I think to know what is going on. I've tried to convert the residential
 areas of 031I08 myself, and I got an OSM file with an outer polygon.
 However, the outer polygon has no tags. Also, it looks that Sam's batch
 files run shp-to-osm with the -t parameter, which suppresses the output of
 features without any tags.

 Solution:
 * shp-to-osm needs to be adjusted, so that the outer polygon will get the
 tags, but the inner polygons will not.


Im running the script how with that change.. to see how it works...


 * shp-to-osm should be called without the -t parameter.
 Is this possible?

 However, that means for tiles that have no residential areas a file with
the size of 0 bytes will be created.   (not a problem, as i could do that
for all the features... but you'd end up with 80 0meg files.   that would
cause a headache when someone looks at it for the 1st time)  ... or we could
just do that for residential areas.

What i DID do was create an 'extra' file, in the 'extra' folder, that
extended the max nodes to 2 million. (or i could just remove that toggle),
and a full .osm file will be created.
... but remember that the API can only handle 2000 nodes.

and what i also did was create a 3rd line on the bat file that  omits the
'-t' and also in the 'extra' folder, as that should do the trick.

Frank

 Frank Steggink wrote:

 Hi Sam,

 I've just downloaded some CanVec data, and had a look at sheets 031I07 and
 -08. I wonder what you mean by uploading all sub-residential files. I
 understand that the data is separated over multiple files, because of
 certain limitations. In the residential OSM files I also see no polygons
 with a multipolygon relationship of outer. So,this means that the outlines
 of places like Trois-Rivieres and others are missing. The same issue is
 going on with wooded areas. The data is converted with Canvec2OSM version
 0.9.4.

 I had a closer look at the raster file (from Toporama) of sheet 031I08,
 because there is much less data, and I looked at the village of Gentilly
 (see [1]). This is in the center of the sheet. The raster file suggests that
 a multipolygon relationship should be in place, but the vector file
 (BS_1370009_2_Residential_area0.osm) shows only the two inner polygons. Are
 the outer polygons stored in a different file, or are they not converted at
 all? The shape of the outer polygon doesn't look to be complex, so I don't
 think the max_nodes threshold would be exceeded. Looking at the OSM file:
 there is only one multipolygon relationship in it, but it only refers to the
 two inner polygons, and not to any outer polygon at all.

 One note regarding multipolygons: the inner polygons shouldn't have any
 tags at all. See [2].


Ya, i noticed that with the water features i was playing with the other day.
So that needs to have a closer look into.


 Anyways, some clarifications about what is going on, and how the data
 should be interpreted would be welcome.


Thats where the readme.txt file comes in to play.  As it gives some
instructions.  But it might need a little fixing up.


  I'm reluctant to import data which looks not correct. For the rest, keep
 up your good work :)


Thanks :)


 Regards,

 Frank

 [1] http://osm.org/go/cKHX9ApT-
 [2] http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Multipolygon

 Sam Vekemans wrote:


 Hi Richard,
 i think your refering to the large multi-polygons such as
 'residential_area', and it 'appears' to be inverted.

 Here's the majic; when all the sub- residential.osm files are uploaded
 to OSM, it renders correctly.
 In JOSM, you need to zoom out and load the area, to see it.

 I think i'll load a region of NFLD in the next cuple days to test my
 hypothises.

 Sam

 ps. I cc'd talk-ca as this was mentioned b4.

 On 9/22/09, Richard Weait rich...@weait.com wrote:


 Dear gentlemen,

 I've had a look at some of Sam's test areas.  In 1435 files there are
 zero occurrences of Relation=outer.

 So at some point we started calling relation=outer, relation=inner or
 completely dropping outer relations by mistake.

 I do still see rare nested ways, but both are marked as inner, and are
 on separate layers after --maxnodes

 I've run 0.6.1 again with an old rules file and see the same problem
 so I believe that this is an issue in shp-to-osm.

 Ian can you check a 0.5.0 - generated file and see if it contains any
 outer?

 Best regards,
 Richard







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Re: [Talk-ca] canvec / shp-to-osm

[Frank Steggink]

Hi Sam,

It's either that you'll end up with 0 byte files, or with files without 
any outer polygons. The former is just an inconvenience, while the 
latter is a problem. ;)

Anyways, before you generate new data, I think someone should have a 
look at shp-to-osm, to check if my assumption that the tags are written 
to the wrong polygons (inner polygon, instead of outer polygon) is 
right. I could give it a try, but I'm not very familiar with Java, so I 
hope that Ian or someone who is more knowledgeable is willing to check 
this out. And maybe the working of the -t switch should be revisited, so 
that tagless elements which are part of a multipolygon relationship are 
still exported.

I'll have a look at the extra file, to see if it contains the data with 
outer polygons, although I actually want to upload one other sheet 
tonight. Regarding the nodes: I'm using JOSM to upload data, and 
although this might not be the most ideal solution, it is working fine. 
I've uploaded more than 1 elements at once, and I just uploaded more 
than 5000 elements (see [1], sheet 031I01), so this is still possible 
with JOSM. Anyways, what good is a bulk upload tool, if it doesn't 
really support bulk ;)

By the way, I also uploaded the residential areas of sheet 031I08. I've 
copied the tags of the shape of Gentilly to the outer polygon, removed 
them from the inner polygons, and uploaded the data. It looks OK in OSM. 
(Actually, I don't think that the CanVec residential areas are that 
good, but at least they correspond to the areas in the raster file.)

Frank

[1] http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/changeset/2952729

Sam Vekemans wrote:


 On Sun, Oct 25, 2009 at 3:15 PM, Frank Steggink stegg...@steggink.org 
 mailto:stegg...@steggink.org wrote:

 Hi,

 I think to know what is going on. I've tried to convert the
 residential areas of 031I08 myself, and I got an OSM file with an
 outer polygon. However, the outer polygon has no tags. Also, it
 looks that Sam's batch files run shp-to-osm with the -t parameter,
 which suppresses the output of features without any tags.

 Solution:
 * shp-to-osm needs to be adjusted, so that the outer polygon will
 get the tags, but the inner polygons will not.


 Im running the script how with that change.. to see how it works...
  

 * shp-to-osm should be called without the -t parameter.
 Is this possible?

 However, that means for tiles that have no residential areas a file 
 with the size of 0 bytes will be created.   (not a problem, as i could 
 do that for all the features... but you'd end up with 80 0meg files.   
 that would cause a headache when someone looks at it for the 1st 
 time)  ... or we could just do that for residential areas.
  
 What i DID do was create an 'extra' file, in the 'extra' folder, that 
 extended the max nodes to 2 million. (or i could just remove that 
 toggle), and a full .osm file will be created.
 ... but remember that the API can only handle 2000 nodes. 

 and what i also did was create a 3rd line on the bat file that  omits 
 the '-t' and also in the 'extra' folder, as that should do the trick.

 Frank

 Frank Steggink wrote:

 Hi Sam,

 I've just downloaded some CanVec data, and had a look at
 sheets 031I07 and -08. I wonder what you mean by uploading all
 sub-residential files. I understand that the data is
 separated over multiple files, because of certain limitations.
 In the residential OSM files I also see no polygons with a
 multipolygon relationship of outer. So,this means that the
 outlines of places like Trois-Rivieres and others are missing.
 The same issue is going on with wooded areas. The data is
 converted with Canvec2OSM version 0.9.4.

 I had a closer look at the raster file (from Toporama) of
 sheet 031I08, because there is much less data, and I looked at
 the village of Gentilly (see [1]). This is in the center of
 the sheet. The raster file suggests that a multipolygon
 relationship should be in place, but the vector file
 (BS_1370009_2_Residential_area0.osm) shows only the two inner
 polygons. Are the outer polygons stored in a different file,
 or are they not converted at all? The shape of the outer
 polygon doesn't look to be complex, so I don't think the
 max_nodes threshold would be exceeded. Looking at the OSM
 file: there is only one multipolygon relationship in it, but
 it only refers to the two inner polygons, and not to any outer
 polygon at all.

 One note regarding multipolygons: the inner polygons shouldn't
 have any tags at all. See [2].


 Ya, i noticed that with the water features i was playing with the 
 other day. So that needs to have a closer look into.


 Anyways, some clarifications about what is going on, and how
 the data should be 

Re: [Talk-ca] canvec / shp-to-osm -multi-polygons -residential area

[Sam Vekemans]

Ok,
for the residential area, i have the tags in the relation, and not on
the outer, nor on the inner.

Is that OK?
It still renders (i would think)

Sam

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