Re: [Talk-GB] Roundabout, ways and relationship policies
Greg Stark wrote: On Thu, Jul 23, 2009 at 11:22 AM, Steve Hillst...@nexusuk.org wrote: 1. It is one way in the appropriate direction (clockwise in the UK) 2. All the roads leave/join the outside of the loop (*) 3. It generally isn't very built-up in the middle (**) 4. It has a reasonably circular shape (***) 5. It is signposted as such Fwiw even (1) isn't necessarily true. The Magic Roundabout famously has a counter-clockwise loop in the centre. And there are other such roundabouts where the central loop isn't even one-way. The Basildon magic roundabout is a set of small roundabouts linked by dual-carriageway! It is legally bidirectional, except the roundabouts, but if you come watch at rush-hour 95%[1] of motorists sit queue in the conventional direction; whereas I just go the other way round it save 10 minutes of clutch-pumping! Mark [95% of all statistics are made up on the spot..] ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [Talk-GB] Roundabout, ways and relationship policies
Mark Williams wrote: Jon Burgess wrote: The roundabout I really dislike is at Winnersh Triangle, UK: http://osm.org/go/eusmtxB_j- If you look on some satellite imagery you will see it really does have a dual carriage way going right through the middle of the roundabout. And a very odd-looking bit at 1 O'Clock on the slip road - looks like somebody missed linking the node to the way? Mark Why does it take two people to email about something that takes less time to correct when you're already on the webpage? I know you shouldn't generally fix mistakes where you don't know the roads in question, (eg side roads may be intentionally separated from a main road by just a kerb stone or just painted road markings not marked on the map) but in this instance the road configuration can't possibly have been anything else other then a connected dual carriageway north-south route and slip road. Did anyone notice that the node south of the roundabout where the dual carriageway merges to become a single road wasn't connected properly either? So why not correct it? then maybe routing applications will work properly and the whole map project will be more usable. ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [Talk-GB] Roundabout, ways and relationship policies
On Thu, 23 Jul 2009, Greg Stark wrote: Fwiw even (1) isn't necessarily true. The Magic Roundabout famously has a counter-clockwise loop in the centre. And there are other such roundabouts where the central loop isn't even one-way. I wouldn't really consider the magic roundabout to be a roundabout (although others may disagree I guess... I certainly wouldn't expect a satnav to say take the 4th exit at the roundabout when approaching the magic roundabout :). It is really a collection of interlinked miniroundabouts. I do think (5) is kind of important. Critically there are special laws dictating right-of-way and rules for navigating roundabouts which aren't necessarily the same as for a simple loop of one-way roads. Not really - the right of way laws for a roundabout are the same as any other one way system that consists of a major road with side-roads joining it (i.e. you give way to the traffic already on the major road). I guess things get fuzzier as the roundabouts become smaller and the give way to the right rule starts talking about traffic that is still on the side road to the right instead of actually on the roundabout. I have to say I find it awfully annoying to edit ways in an area where every path is broken up into ten million single segment paths because there are bridges, tunnels, surface changes, hazards, etc. It would be awfully nice to have one reasonably big way and then shorter ways marking the exceptions. IMHO this could be better done with relations and improvements to the editors. - Steve xmpp:st...@nexusuk.org sip:st...@nexusuk.org http://www.nexusuk.org/ Servatis a periculum, servatis a maleficum - Whisper, Evanescence ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [Talk-GB] Dartford Mapping Party
2009/7/23 Shaun McDonald sh...@shaunmcdonald.me.uk: I'm tempted to say it is a bit late in the day. This is the downside of planning a party a few months in advance, i.e. the risk of a lot of mapping being done prior to the event. I prefer morning meetups that are near to stations, as some people usually get there by train and bike. Bluewater is in the quite far from a station for those arriving by train. I'm happy to cycle the 30 mins out from Dartford out East to the mapping area. Actually I tend to agree, Its just Coming in from Medway says to me that Central Dartford is quite a long way in the wrong direction, when most of the stuff to be mapped is closer.. Peter Childs ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [Talk-GB] New wiki page for GB reversion requests
On 24 Jul 2009, at 00:48, Mark Williams wrote: Peter Miller wrote: On 22 Jul 2009, at 15:18, Andy Allan wrote: On Wed, Jul 22, 2009 at 1:37 PM, Peter Millerpeter.mil...@itoworld.com wrote: snip So for the future, if there's another changeset that needs sorting out, please consider asking someone to revert it before anyone tries to manually fix it. Manually fixing stuff is of course fine but it's an all-or-nothing approach that can't be finished off with a script. Ok, so I claimed 6 change-sets with the ones at the top of the list. I checked all the nodes on the first page and then noticed that this was page 1 of 42 of changed nodes - a total of 823 nodes to fix. Now that is 823 nodes (and 39 ways) in one of 35 change- sets. That is potentially a lot of work. Any ideas anyone? Have played. The changesets are not convenient, as I haven't found a good way to load one into JOSM use it meaningfully. However I do have a copy of S.E. England before this little pest was invented, so I can use that as a background highlight a given user 'blink' layers, which shows up his evilness a treat, including deletions. That just leaves tagging changes to find, which again is easier with a 'known good' set of data from April. As my part of the world was OK back then it's only changed a little in detail, obviously I can see the pests' work distinctly. At 117Mb it's not quick to load, but very useable. I have reverts the changes sets I claimed where I can - most are too big for a basic Potlatch approach but I have done the others (although Potlatch has bugs in reversion that we have already noted) I have got though about half of the rest of Liam123's changesets to see how big they are and also where they are for. Firstly, it is clear that Liam123 had brief 'holidays' in Benidorm and in Germany. Secondly, he has done other large edits including hundreds of edits that can't be reverted easily with Potlatch. So... This is not just a UK issue, and also we need some better reversion tools. Any offers? Regards, Peter Mark ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
[Talk-GB] SOTM 2007 - Liberating GIS from the OS
Hi At SOTM 2007 Michael Calder talked about a project he was working on to scan in all of the old out of copyright OS maps and then to digitise them to get georeferenced raw data out. Since then I haven't heard anything about the project so I was wondering if anyone knows what he's up to with that? His email address is on his user page but I thought I'd ask here first rather than hassle him directly. There's a bit more info on his user page here: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/User:Michaelcalder Any clues? No particular reason for asking but for some reason I remembered the project last night and I'm sure by the time-scales he mentioned he should be well underway. John ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [Talk-GB] Roundabout, ways and relationship policies
Why do we cut them up for the bus routes? Wouldn't it be easier to build a navagation app at does the calculation using all the stops as waypoints. The resulting calculated route might not actually match the route the bus really takes. You might argue that it doesn't matter so long as the bus goes via all the stops, but IMHO it is wrong since there may be reasons for knowing the route the bus actually takes rather than just what stops it goes via. I am not a bus spotter or a photter but why would I want to know what route the 172 Bus takes? Other than from a route planning PoV so that I don't get stuck behind them all the time. I understand that people would like to put bus routes into OSM but does it have to require the cutting up of roundabouts and junctions? I would not go around cutting stuff up just so I can put in a route of ice cream van. Jack ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [Talk-GB] Roundabout, ways and relationship policies
Jack Stringer wrote: Why do we cut them up for the bus routes? Wouldn't it be easier to build a navagation app at does the calculation using all the stops as waypoints. The resulting calculated route might not actually match the route the bus really takes. You might argue that it doesn't matter so long as the bus goes via all the stops, but IMHO it is wrong since there may be reasons for knowing the route the bus actually takes rather than just what stops it goes via. I understand that people would like to put bus routes into OSM but does it have to require the cutting up of roundabouts and junctions? I would not go around cutting stuff up just so I can put in a route of ice cream van. OSM's database can't hold all the information there is about everything. Among the many criteria for not including information are whether: - the data is ephemeral - it is better represented elsewhere - it distorts the OSM database Bus routes are on the edge of all of these. Where I live routes are changed frequently (sadly often by being removed). Route and timetable information would ideally presented together (some routes operate only once a week). There is likely to be a big increase in mash-up representations with OSM data as just one of the layers. Public transport information is ripe for innovative interactive presentation along these lines. I would prefer to wait the short time until this happens rather than distorting the OSM data unnecessarily. Chris ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [Talk-GB] Roundabout, ways and relationship policies
One of the things I like about German street maps is that they mark trams and buses. Even stops. Even stop names (sometimes). I got a text from my partner asking arrived Wuerzburg; what number bus do I get for Veitshoechheim? and I found out, found the correct stop, and could give precise directions to the house (double brownie points). Courtesy of buses and houses being in OSM. I would say there's an ephemerality threshold that needs to be met, but that is determined by the number of editors willing to add/update the info, not purely the change frequency. Street maps in the UK don't have bus info in them, but that's not going to stop me putting it in for Oxford. Feel free to use the info when you visit. I'm certainly finding that doing relations in Potlatch could be a bit easier, but have tried to make appropriate suggestions to get improvements made. If you can add ways to relations easily, it won't matter so much that they are (have to be) short. Thinking about it, a scroll-lock feature would be good (automatically recentering each time you select something more than x from the centre). Richard On Fri, Jul 24, 2009 at 12:07 PM, Chris Morley c.mor...@gaseq.co.uk wrote: Jack Stringer wrote: Why do we cut them up for the bus routes? Wouldn't it be easier to build a navagation app at does the calculation using all the stops as waypoints. The resulting calculated route might not actually match the route the bus really takes. You might argue that it doesn't matter so long as the bus goes via all the stops, but IMHO it is wrong since there may be reasons for knowing the route the bus actually takes rather than just what stops it goes via. I understand that people would like to put bus routes into OSM but does it have to require the cutting up of roundabouts and junctions? I would not go around cutting stuff up just so I can put in a route of ice cream van. OSM's database can't hold all the information there is about everything. Among the many criteria for not including information are whether: - the data is ephemeral - it is better represented elsewhere - it distorts the OSM database Bus routes are on the edge of all of these. Where I live routes are changed frequently (sadly often by being removed). Route and timetable information would ideally presented together (some routes operate only once a week). There is likely to be a big increase in mash-up representations with OSM data as just one of the layers. Public transport information is ripe for innovative interactive presentation along these lines. I would prefer to wait the short time until this happens rather than distorting the OSM data unnecessarily. Chris ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [Talk-GB] SOTM 2007 - Liberating GIS from the OS
Andy Robinson (blackadder-lists) wrote: If anyone has old 1:25,000 Provisional/First edition maps that they are happy to donate to the cause I'd be most interested to hear from them. On this subject, do we think it's worth contacting Alan Godfrey to see if he has digital images of the maps he publishes? http://www.alangodfreymaps.co.uk/ I have the 1895 Guildford one which would be quite useful for adding buildings to the map, as many of the houses are still standing. -- Jonathan (Jonobennett) ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
