Re: [Talk-GB] liam123's latest

[Jennifer Campbell]

Not a big contributor to the lists, but...

1) Yes I'd support it
2) Yes I'd join (but unlikely to contribute much)

Jeni
http://blog.jennystuff.com

Peter Miller wrote:
> The other question though:-
>
> 1) Would you support the existence of such a list?
> 2) Would you join it?
>
> If no one supports it or would join it from talk-gb then I won't  
> progress the idea any more!
>   


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Re: [Talk-GB] liam123's latest

[Chris Fleming]

I would be tempted to go for a name such as talk-quality or similar for 
the list as that isn't as prescriptive as talk-moderation

I would subscribe, time to read and reply is a wholly different question :)

Cheers
Chris


On 17/09/09 15:13, Peter Miller wrote:
> On 17 Sep 2009, at 14:48, Matt Williams wrote:
>
>
>> 2009/9/17 Peter Miller:
>>  
>>> On 17 Sep 2009, at 14:30, David Earl wrote:
>>>
>>>
 On 17/09/2009 14:30, Peter Miller wrote:
  
> Possibly a different name would be clearer
> talk-Counter_vandalism_tools, but that is getting a bit long. Any
> other ideas or feedback?
>
 talk-reversion-tools?
  
>>> Not very inclusive. I want it to also cover 'patrol' software to spot
>>> suspicious sorts of dicking around, such as a new contributor
>>> moving a
>>> bunch of nodes that have been in one place for a length of time.
>>> Looking for offensive phrases in tags. Users who have recently had
>>> work reverted who make new edits. Possibly methods of rating
>>> contributors with white lists for users who don't get reverted and
>>> have been editing for some time etc.
>>>
>> talk-moderation or talk-moderation_tools? Since this all falls under
>> the umbrella of moderating the edits being made.
>>  
> Sounds good to me.
>
> 'talk-moderation' is short, and makes it clear that it covers all
> aspects of both the technology and the associated social side of
> managing contributions. Some people may think it is the place to
> complain about every bad edit, but we can deflect those requests with
> a good wiki.
>
> The other question though:-
>
> 1) Would you support the existence of such a list?
> 2) Would you join it?
>
> If no one supports it or would join it from talk-gb then I won't
> progress the idea any more!
>
>
> Regards,
>
>
> Peter
>
>
>
>> -- 
>> Matt Williams
>> http://milliams.com
>>
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>
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Re: [Talk-GB] OpenStreetMap's first flight!

[John Robert Peterson]

To translate "just over 20GB on my snow leopard" -- that's exactly 19GB in
real terms, or 20.46 billion bytes.

If you want just low res jpegs, that's just under 1GB, or if you want only
high res (and extremly high quality) jpegs that's almost exactly 8GB (a few
of them can be weeded out manually on copy, like the ones of my gps set at
the end) -- the rest is raw files for completness.

I'll be making the GPS trace available to anyone that want's it too, I
forgot to include them in the data I gave to John.

JR

2009/9/17 John McKerrell 

> Ok, just to let you all know, I have the images on my laptop so should be
> fine for taking them down to the AGI next week. It's showing as just over
> 20GB on my snow leopard base 10 laptop ;-)
> I'm tempted to try uploading them to my server but I imagine it'll take too
> long so basically I'll make no promises, but see what I can do.
>
> Anyone who's at the conference and wants a copy can feel free to ask,
> though it'll be BYO external HDD/gigabit ethernet cable, multiple USB keys
> probably won't cut it as it'll be too much of a pain to split them up.
>
> John
>
>
> On 14 Sep 2009, at 11:25, John Robert Peterson wrote:
>
> I had a gps set with me, and geocoded the images, but the geocoding seems
> to be off by hundreds of meters (2-3 seconds).
>
> I even corrected for time error (with the photo of gps set thing), I
> suspect there is some lag in the display of my gps set.
>
> side note, the new images are up at:
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/thingomy/sets/72157622360497142/ -- I
> appologise if there is duplication of any type.
>
> @john -- when and where do you want to meet up? I'm busy on friday but can
> do any time before then.
>
> JR
>
> 2009/9/14 Peter Miller 
>
>>
>> On 14 Sep 2009, at 08:51, John McKerrell wrote:
>>
>> JR lives just around the corner from me so I should be able to get a copy
>> of the photos onto my laptop. I'm going to the AGI conference next week so
>> if anyone wanted they could then take a copy from me. I might even be able
>> to host them though as he says, it's liable to be just a difficult to
>> navigate collection of filenames.
>>
>> Yes please - do bring the images to the conference for me and anyone else.
>> Thanks.
>>
>>
>> JR - did you take a GPS trace while you were up in the plane? Oddly enough
>> that might help me with the hosting.
>>
>>
>> The images on Flickr are geocoded so I assume he does have a gps trace.
>>
>>
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>>
>> Peter
>>
>>
>>
>> John
>>
>>
>> On 13 Sep 2009, at 23:24, John Robert Peterson wrote:
>>
>> For whoever asked for more wide area images, I went through the collection
>> and picked some more. As such there is a batch of 128 of them uploading as
>> we speak, I will put them in a proper set once they are done, but in the
>> mean time anyone desperate can look here:
>> http://www.flickr.com/photos/thingomy/
>>
>> I have all of these at 12MP (or for the few images taken with my backup
>> camera 10MP) if anyone wants one or 2 of them at full res, let me know, I
>> can email them to you.
>>
>> Please let me know how much use these are for people -- I expect the main
>> use for them will be visual reference when making edits.
>>
>> @peter -- It's funny -- I picked a diferent view of the same peice of the
>> town to warp.
>>
>> I suspect that there is a hill in that logation messing things up.
>>
>> I would say that rectifying images in this way only works in areas where
>> we already have a lot of detail, as such it's only really useful for special
>> purposes like adding extra fine detail. Would other people agree with me
>> there, or am I over reacting again?
>>
>>
>> @franky -- thanks.
>>
>> RE tresspassing, that is the only thing that I miss after the move from
>> scotland, we have the "Land and Countryside Act" which explicitly states
>> that you can go pretty much anywhere you like, there are of course a bunch
>> of exceptions, but in this case, you would be perfectly within your rights
>> to trace out hedges to your hearts content.
>>
>> 2009/9/13 Peter Miller 
>>
>>>
>>> On 13 Sep 2009, at 22:05, Frankie Roberto wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> 2009/9/13 John Robert Peterson 
>>>
>>> I'm not planning to put them all online in the short term -- while flickr
 would be able ot hold all 10GB of data, it would be an almost imposable ot
 access format.

>>>
>>> The photos look great btw. Such a nice day for it!
>>>
>>> Thing this one is my fav so far:
>>> http://www.flickr.com/photos/thingomy/3909552809/in/set-72157622214942341/
>>>
>>> It'll be great to be able to tag individual fields and hedges - this is
>>> almost impossible to do from the ground (unless you're a fan of
>>> trespassing).
>>>
>>>
>>> I have been playing with warper and here is my first result. It seems to
>>> need a good number of control points but it is certainly a useful tool. Can
>>> one rectify a number of images and then stitch them together into a single
>>> image that can be used in Potlatch I wonder?
>>> http://warpe

Re: [Talk-GB] NOVAM viewer

[Kev js1982]

Or even a single operator - during Nottingham City Transports
transition to a fully low floor operation the old buses were cascaded
down too other routes which shared the same stops,
And what about Preston bus station where they had to lower the kerbs
to allow low floor buses to access it ;-)

On 9/16/09, John Robert Peterson  wrote:
> 2009/9/16 Robert Naylor 
>
>> 
>> I'll be switching to using kerb=raised now.  Although I assume if they've
>> altered the kerb that they buses serving the route would be low-floor
>> buses.
>>
>
> not necisarilly a good assumtion -- there can be 2 diferent companies
> running busses to the same stop, one using low floor, and one not. Although
> in general it may be a reasonable assuption. Can accessability information
> be included with the bus route relation?
>
>
>> On second thoughts after hearing about a bus stop which got built on the
>> wrong street - and maintained maybe not :)
>>
>
> there is a bus stop a few miles from my parents house: they were asked to
> install it at "the crossroads" so they did, on the wrong  leg of the
> crossroads, as a result they had to move around all the bus routes to fit,
> adding miles to some journeys.
>
>
>>
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>

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Re: [Talk-GB] OpenStreetMap's first flight!

[John McKerrell]

Ok, just to let you all know, I have the images on my laptop so should  
be fine for taking them down to the AGI next week. It's showing as  
just over 20GB on my snow leopard base 10 laptop ;-)


I'm tempted to try uploading them to my server but I imagine it'll  
take too long so basically I'll make no promises, but see what I can do.


Anyone who's at the conference and wants a copy can feel free to ask,  
though it'll be BYO external HDD/gigabit ethernet cable, multiple USB  
keys probably won't cut it as it'll be too much of a pain to split  
them up.


John


On 14 Sep 2009, at 11:25, John Robert Peterson wrote:

I had a gps set with me, and geocoded the images, but the geocoding  
seems to be off by hundreds of meters (2-3 seconds).


I even corrected for time error (with the photo of gps set thing), I  
suspect there is some lag in the display of my gps set.


side note, the new images are up at: http://www.flickr.com/photos/thingomy/sets/72157622360497142/ 
 -- I appologise if there is duplication of any type.


@john -- when and where do you want to meet up? I'm busy on friday  
but can do any time before then.


JR

2009/9/14 Peter Miller 

On 14 Sep 2009, at 08:51, John McKerrell wrote:

JR lives just around the corner from me so I should be able to get  
a copy of the photos onto my laptop. I'm going to the AGI  
conference next week so if anyone wanted they could then take a  
copy from me. I might even be able to host them though as he says,  
it's liable to be just a difficult to navigate collection of  
filenames.


Yes please - do bring the images to the conference for me and anyone  
else. Thanks.



JR - did you take a GPS trace while you were up in the plane? Oddly  
enough that might help me with the hosting.


The images on Flickr are geocoded so I assume he does have a gps  
trace.




Regards,


Peter




John


On 13 Sep 2009, at 23:24, John Robert Peterson wrote:

For whoever asked for more wide area images, I went through the  
collection and picked some more. As such there is a batch of 128  
of them uploading as we speak, I will put them in a proper set  
once they are done, but in the mean time anyone desperate can look  
here: http://www.flickr.com/photos/thingomy/


I have all of these at 12MP (or for the few images taken with my  
backup camera 10MP) if anyone wants one or 2 of them at full res,  
let me know, I can email them to you.


Please let me know how much use these are for people -- I expect  
the main use for them will be visual reference when making edits.


@peter -- It's funny -- I picked a diferent view of the same peice  
of the town to warp.


I suspect that there is a hill in that logation messing things up.

I would say that rectifying images in this way only works in areas  
where we already have a lot of detail, as such it's only really  
useful for special purposes like adding extra fine detail. Would  
other people agree with me there, or am I over reacting again?



@franky -- thanks.

RE tresspassing, that is the only thing that I miss after the move  
from scotland, we have the "Land and Countryside Act" which  
explicitly states that you can go pretty much anywhere you like,  
there are of course a bunch of exceptions, but in this case, you  
would be perfectly within your rights to trace out hedges to your  
hearts content.


2009/9/13 Peter Miller 

On 13 Sep 2009, at 22:05, Frankie Roberto wrote:



2009/9/13 John Robert Peterson 

I'm not planning to put them all online in the short term --  
while flickr would be able ot hold all 10GB of data, it would be  
an almost imposable ot access format.


The photos look great btw. Such a nice day for it!

Thing this one is my fav so far: 
http://www.flickr.com/photos/thingomy/3909552809/in/set-72157622214942341/

It'll be great to be able to tag individual fields and hedges -  
this is almost impossible to do from the ground (unless you're a  
fan of trespassing).


I have been playing with warper and here is my first result. It  
seems to need a good number of control points but it is certainly  
a useful tool. Can one rectify a number of images and then stitch  
them together into a single image that can be used in Potlatch I  
wonder?

http://warper.geothings.net/maps/preview/1204


Regards,


Peter





Frankie

--
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Experience Designer, Rattle
0114 2706977
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Re: [Talk-GB] liam123's latest

[Frederik Ramm]

David,

David Earl wrote:
> ... which also won't revert now its closed ("changeset upload failed: 
> 409 Conflict")

I also hear you talk about "automatic reversion" which "gets a failure 
rate of about half". Are you sure that you know what you are doing? 
Because if not then there's a risk that you make things worse.

Pardon if I'm doing you injustice but it sounds a bit as if you were 
just pressing buttons without having given the issue much thought. Have 
you tried to combine the edits you want to revert and to sort them in a 
meaningful way for reverting? Have you identified those that don't 
revert and split up his changesets?  etc.

It is certainly not a good idea to blindly run the revert script on 
anything liam123 is doing and if that is what you're attempting then I 
would urge you to stop that and develop a more sophisticated approach.

Bye
Frederik


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Re: [Talk-GB] Locating Postboxes article Guardian

[Chris Hill]

As far as I can see all of the post codes for boxes are unique, so a 
group of them related to a collection office do not share a post code.  
The box very close to my house has the same post code as my house.  The 
collection office for here is in the next village with a quite different 
post code.

That said, I expect there could be variability across the country - I 
suspect that the list was compiled from locally created lists and the 
criteria for each area could be different.

Cheers, Chris

John Robert Peterson wrote:
> I'm pretty sure I heard from somewhere that the "post code" associated 
> with the post box is actually a post code assosiated with the 
> collection office, and that a house next to it can have a totally 
> different post code.
>
> JR
>
> 2009/9/17 Chris Hill mailto:o...@raggedred.net>>
>
> Ciarán Mooney wrote:
> > Hi,
> >
> > Also I've spoken to Draco in the past, and his website does not sync
> > with OSM. He has tried to get help with a mass import but the
> > discussion was rat-holed due to supposed problem deriving data from
> > Royal Mails postbox list.
> >
> >
> http://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/legal-talk/2009-July/002560.html
> >
> > I plan on emailing whoever responded to the original FOI request at
> > Royal Mail and see if we can get explicit permission to use the
> data.
> >
> > Ciarán
> The original list contains a post code which Royal Mail might well be
> touchy about given the WikiLeak of their postcode DB.  The location
> information is far too vague to position a box without a visit and
> sometimes a treasure hunt at which point the reference can usually be
> gathered (if the box hasn't been vandalised) but we can only get the
> post code from the Royal Mail, so good luck.
>
> Cheers, Chris
>
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Re: [Talk-GB] liam123's latest

[Tom Hughes]

On 17/09/09 17:58, Ciarán Mooney wrote:

> We seem unable to contact Liam123 via normal channels. This means we
> have to think of other ways of contacting members who continually put
> mistakes into the dataset.

Which is why he has been referred to the DWG who have other means of 
contacting people at their disposal, and the power to take action if 
people do not respond.

> Is it not possible to put a flag on his account, so when he logs in he
> is told what he has been doing and asked to explain himself?
> Preferably with a form box that forwards the message to this list?

That is not an ability we have at the moment, no.

Tom

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Re: [Talk-GB] Locating Postboxes article Guardian

[Russ Phillips]

On Thu, Sep 17, 2009 at 5:49 PM, John Robert Peterson  wrote:
> I'm pretty sure I heard from somewhere that the "post code" associated with
> the post box is actually a post code assosiated with the collection office,
> and that a house next to it can have a totally different post code.

That seems highly unlikely. In the early 1990's, I was a postie, and
the sorting office that I was based in delivered mail to the S66 7xx &
S66 8xx postcode areas. This page:
http://www.dracos.co.uk/play/locating-postboxes/nearest/?s=S66+8

Shows many postboxes that have been located in the area, all with a
different postcode. But all those postboxes listed with a postcode
starting "S66 7" or "S66 8" are collected from a single sorting
office. Or at least, they were in 1994, and the sorting office that I
worked at is still in operation.

Russ

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Re: [Talk-GB] liam123's latest

[Ciarán Mooney]

Hi,

We seem unable to contact Liam123 via normal channels. This means we
have to think of other ways of contacting members who continually put
mistakes into the dataset.

Is it not possible to put a flag on his account, so when he logs in he
is told what he has been doing and asked to explain himself?
Preferably with a form box that forwards the message to this list?

Otherwise we are going to go around in circles trying to undo his
work, rather than solving the problem. We need to get him on our side
rather than just having him toy with something we feel is very
important.

Ciarán

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Re: [Talk-GB] Locating Postboxes article Guardian

[John Robert Peterson]

I'm pretty sure I heard from somewhere that the "post code" associated with
the post box is actually a post code assosiated with the collection office,
and that a house next to it can have a totally different post code.

JR

2009/9/17 Chris Hill 

> Ciarán Mooney wrote:
> > Hi,
> >
> > Also I've spoken to Draco in the past, and his website does not sync
> > with OSM. He has tried to get help with a mass import but the
> > discussion was rat-holed due to supposed problem deriving data from
> > Royal Mails postbox list.
> >
> >
> http://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/legal-talk/2009-July/002560.html
> >
> > I plan on emailing whoever responded to the original FOI request at
> > Royal Mail and see if we can get explicit permission to use the data.
> >
> > Ciarán
> The original list contains a post code which Royal Mail might well be
> touchy about given the WikiLeak of their postcode DB.  The location
> information is far too vague to position a box without a visit and
> sometimes a treasure hunt at which point the reference can usually be
> gathered (if the box hasn't been vandalised) but we can only get the
> post code from the Royal Mail, so good luck.
>
> Cheers, Chris
>
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Re: [Talk-GB] liam123's latest

[David Earl]

... which also won't revert now its closed ("changeset upload failed: 
409 Conflict")

On 17/09/2009 17:42, David Earl wrote:
> Yet another one in progress: Dartford in Kent is being steadily ruined 
> with random bridges and the like:
> http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/changeset/2513003
> 
> He's spent essentially all day today making random edits across Kent.
> 
> David
> 
> On 17/09/2009 14:35, David Earl wrote:
>> Another one at 13:56, also failed to revert
>> http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/changeset/2511524
>> changeset upload failed: 412 Precondition Failed
>>
>> On 17/09/2009 13:23, David Earl wrote:
>>> Two changesets:
>>>
>>> http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/changeset/2510163 reverted cleanly
>>>
>>> http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/changeset/2510485 failed to revert 
>>> "410 gone" - I suspect there was a node/way changed in the second 
>>> changeset that was also in the first.
>>>
>>> The automatic reversion is getting a failure rate of abut half at the 
>>> moment, so liam123 is steadily degrading map quality because nothing is 
>>> being done to deal with the manual stuff.
>>>
>>> David
>>>
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Re: [Talk-GB] liam123's latest

[David Earl]

Yet another one in progress: Dartford in Kent is being steadily ruined 
with random bridges and the like:
http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/changeset/2513003

He's spent essentially all day today making random edits across Kent.

David

On 17/09/2009 14:35, David Earl wrote:
> Another one at 13:56, also failed to revert
> http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/changeset/2511524
> changeset upload failed: 412 Precondition Failed
> 
> On 17/09/2009 13:23, David Earl wrote:
>> Two changesets:
>>
>> http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/changeset/2510163 reverted cleanly
>>
>> http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/changeset/2510485 failed to revert 
>> "410 gone" - I suspect there was a node/way changed in the second 
>> changeset that was also in the first.
>>
>> The automatic reversion is getting a failure rate of abut half at the 
>> moment, so liam123 is steadily degrading map quality because nothing is 
>> being done to deal with the manual stuff.
>>
>> David
>>
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Re: [Talk-GB] liam123's latest

[John Robert Peterson]

I'd join too -- but I doubt I would be of all that much help.

JR

2009/9/17 Someoneelse 

> Peter Miller wrote:
> > The other question though:-
> >
> > 1) Would you support the existence of such a list?
> > 2) Would you join it?
>
> Yes, I'd join.
>
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Re: [Talk-GB] liam123's latest

[Russ Phillips]

On Thu, Sep 17, 2009 at 3:13 PM, Peter Miller  wrote:

> 'talk-moderation' is short, and makes it clear that it covers all
> aspects of both the technology and the associated social side of
> managing contributions. Some people may think it is the place to
> complain about every bad edit, but we can deflect those requests with
> a good wiki.
>
> The other question though:-
>
> 1) Would you support the existence of such a list?
> 2) Would you join it?

talk-moderation sounds like a good name. I like the idea of the list,
so I'd support it's existence, but I doubt I'd join it, because I'm
signed up to too many lists as it is.

Russ

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Re: [Talk-GB] liam123's latest

[Someoneelse]

Peter Miller wrote:
> The other question though:-
> 
> 1) Would you support the existence of such a list?
> 2) Would you join it?

Yes, I'd join.

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Re: [Talk-GB] liam123's latest

[Peter Miller]

On 17 Sep 2009, at 14:48, Matt Williams wrote:

> 2009/9/17 Peter Miller :
>>
>> On 17 Sep 2009, at 14:30, David Earl wrote:
>>
>>> On 17/09/2009 14:30, Peter Miller wrote:
 Possibly a different name would be clearer
 talk-Counter_vandalism_tools, but that is getting a bit long. Any
 other ideas or feedback?
>>>
>>> talk-reversion-tools?
>>
>> Not very inclusive. I want it to also cover 'patrol' software to spot
>> suspicious sorts of dicking around, such as a new contributor  
>> moving a
>> bunch of nodes that have been in one place for a length of time.
>> Looking for offensive phrases in tags. Users who have recently had
>> work reverted who make new edits. Possibly methods of rating
>> contributors with white lists for users who don't get reverted and
>> have been editing for some time etc.
>
> talk-moderation or talk-moderation_tools? Since this all falls under
> the umbrella of moderating the edits being made.

Sounds good to me.

'talk-moderation' is short, and makes it clear that it covers all  
aspects of both the technology and the associated social side of  
managing contributions. Some people may think it is the place to  
complain about every bad edit, but we can deflect those requests with  
a good wiki.

The other question though:-

1) Would you support the existence of such a list?
2) Would you join it?

If no one supports it or would join it from talk-gb then I won't  
progress the idea any more!


Regards,


Peter


>
> -- 
> Matt Williams
> http://milliams.com
>
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Re: [Talk-GB] liam123's latest

[Matt Williams]

2009/9/17 Peter Miller :
>
> On 17 Sep 2009, at 14:30, David Earl wrote:
>
>> On 17/09/2009 14:30, Peter Miller wrote:
>>> Possibly a different name would be clearer
>>> talk-Counter_vandalism_tools, but that is getting a bit long. Any
>>> other ideas or feedback?
>>
>> talk-reversion-tools?
>
> Not very inclusive. I want it to also cover 'patrol' software to spot
> suspicious sorts of dicking around, such as a new contributor moving a
> bunch of nodes that have been in one place for a length of time.
> Looking for offensive phrases in tags. Users who have recently had
> work reverted who make new edits. Possibly methods of rating
> contributors with white lists for users who don't get reverted and
> have been editing for some time etc.

talk-moderation or talk-moderation_tools? Since this all falls under
the umbrella of moderating the edits being made.

-- 
Matt Williams
http://milliams.com

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Re: [Talk-GB] liam123's latest

[Dave Stubbs]

On Thu, Sep 17, 2009 at 2:40 PM, David Earl  wrote:
> On 17/09/2009 14:38, David Earl wrote:
>> On 17/09/2009 14:35, David Earl wrote:
>>> Another one at 13:56, also failed to revert
>>> http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/changeset/2511524
>>> changeset upload failed: 412 Precondition Failed
>>
>> Actually, on his page it says "still editing". Perhaps that's why and I
>> can have another go as soon as it terminates.
>
> Now he has a second open changeset, while the first is still open:
>
> http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/changeset/2511982
>


That's just because Potlatch doesn't close the changeset unless you
manually close it. The server will shut down open changesets after 1
hour in inactivity. If you shut down Potlatch, then reopen it it'll
start a new changeset.

The 412 can happen any time you try to revert something which has been
edited since... if he was still editing it's more than likely -- you
might need to consider both changesets together to do a proper revert
(assuming Frederick's tool lets you do that.. not sure it does).

Dave

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Re: [Talk-GB] liam123's latest

[David Earl]

On 17/09/2009 14:38, David Earl wrote:
> On 17/09/2009 14:35, David Earl wrote:
>> Another one at 13:56, also failed to revert
>> http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/changeset/2511524
>> changeset upload failed: 412 Precondition Failed
> 
> Actually, on his page it says "still editing". Perhaps that's why and I 
> can have another go as soon as it terminates.

Now he has a second open changeset, while the first is still open:

http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/changeset/2511982


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Re: [Talk-GB] liam123's latest

[Peter Miller]

On 17 Sep 2009, at 14:30, David Earl wrote:

> On 17/09/2009 14:30, Peter Miller wrote:
>> Possibly a different name would be clearer
>> talk-Counter_vandalism_tools, but that is getting a bit long. Any  
>> other ideas or feedback?
>
> talk-reversion-tools?

Not very inclusive. I want it to also cover 'patrol' software to spot  
suspicious sorts of dicking around, such as a new contributor moving a  
bunch of nodes that have been in one place for a length of time.  
Looking for offensive phrases in tags. Users who have recently had  
work reverted who make new edits. Possibly methods of rating  
contributors with white lists for users who don't get reverted and  
have been editing for some time etc.

Regards,


Peter


>


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Re: [Talk-GB] liam123's latest

[David Earl]

On 17/09/2009 14:35, David Earl wrote:
> Another one at 13:56, also failed to revert
> http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/changeset/2511524
> changeset upload failed: 412 Precondition Failed

Actually, on his page it says "still editing". Perhaps that's why and I 
can have another go as soon as it terminates.

David


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Re: [Talk-GB] liam123's latest

[David Earl]

Another one at 13:56, also failed to revert
http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/changeset/2511524
changeset upload failed: 412 Precondition Failed

On 17/09/2009 13:23, David Earl wrote:
> Two changesets:
> 
> http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/changeset/2510163 reverted cleanly
> 
> http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/changeset/2510485 failed to revert 
> "410 gone" - I suspect there was a node/way changed in the second 
> changeset that was also in the first.
> 
> The automatic reversion is getting a failure rate of abut half at the 
> moment, so liam123 is steadily degrading map quality because nothing is 
> being done to deal with the manual stuff.
> 
> David
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Re: [Talk-GB] liam123's latest

[David Earl]

On 17/09/2009 14:30, Peter Miller wrote:
> Possibly a different name would be clearer
> 
> talk-Counter_vandalism_tools, but that is getting a bit long. Any other 
> ideas or feedback?

talk-reversion-tools?


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Re: [Talk-GB] liam123's latest

[Peter Miller]

On 17 Sep 2009, at 14:18, David Earl wrote:

> On 17/09/2009 14:09, Peter Miller wrote:
>> Who would join a 'talk-counter_vandalism' list or support its  
>> creation?
>
> Yes. But can we call it something less judgemental: not all  
> incorrect changes are vandalism, and people seeing their account  
> names on such a list would be most depressing.
>
> talk-dubious-changes?

Sorry, I wasn't clear. The purpose of the list is to allow people to  
discuss and co-ordinate the creation of good counter-vandalism tools  
internationally, not to be a public flogging place for people who make  
mistakes or indeed who scribble on the map or do worse things.

Vandalism and mistakes are different but need the same tools. If the  
list is focused on creating tools to respond to really bad malicious  
calculated vandalism then it will also provide the tools to recover  
from innocent mistakes as well.

Possibly a different name would be clearer

talk-Counter_vandalism_tools, but that is getting a bit long. Any  
other ideas or feedback?



Regards,


Peter




>
> or some such.
>
> David
>


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Re: [Talk-GB] liam123's latest

[David Earl]

On 17/09/2009 14:09, Peter Miller wrote:
> Who would join a 'talk-counter_vandalism' list or support its creation?

Yes. But can we call it something less judgemental: not all incorrect 
changes are vandalism, and people seeing their account names on such a 
list would be most depressing.

talk-dubious-changes?

or some such.

David


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Re: [Talk-GB] liam123's latest

[Nick Barnes]

I've been thinking about this for a while.

Is he doing anything (legally) wrong?

Is he always connecting from the same IP address?

Can the login script be amended to point suspect users to a "You've been
dicking about with the map - we're going to let you continue in the hope
that at some point you're going to mature into somebody who wants to be
helpful rather than a pain in the backside" page?

Presumably his IP address is known... Can somebody contact his ISP and
get them to do something or forward a letter? Chances are that if it's a
kid, mummy and daddy are paying for the Internet connection.

Nick.



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[Talk-GB] liam123's latest

[Peter Miller]

On 17 Sep 2009, at 13:23, David Earl wrote:

> Two changesets:
>
> http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/changeset/2510163 reverted cleanly
>
> http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/changeset/2510485 failed to revert
> "410 gone" - I suspect there was a node/way changed in the second
> changeset that was also in the first.
>
> The automatic reversion is getting a failure rate of abut half at the
> moment, so liam123 is steadily degrading map quality because nothing  
> is
> being done to deal with the manual stuff.
>
Vandalism has already got to the top on my priority list (along with  
getting the license changed to avoid loosing too much data when it  
eventually happens).

Who would join a 'talk-counter_vandalism' list or support its creation?

Talk-gb and talk-transit (two lists I find very useful) are partly  
useful because they are focused. I believe a talk-counter_vandalism  
list would help provide the focus for the many many tools and  
approaches that could be developed to protect the work done in OSM to  
data and would result in better tools being created sooned.

If we have 4-5 people in the UK then I will propose we request a list  
and promote it on other lists including talk.


Regards,


Peter


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[Talk-GB] liam123's latest

[David Earl]

Two changesets:

http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/changeset/2510163 reverted cleanly

http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/changeset/2510485 failed to revert 
"410 gone" - I suspect there was a node/way changed in the second 
changeset that was also in the first.

The automatic reversion is getting a failure rate of abut half at the 
moment, so liam123 is steadily degrading map quality because nothing is 
being done to deal with the manual stuff.

David

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Re: [Talk-GB] Locating Postboxes article Guardian

[Chris Hill]

Ciarán Mooney wrote:
> Hi,
>
> Also I've spoken to Draco in the past, and his website does not sync
> with OSM. He has tried to get help with a mass import but the
> discussion was rat-holed due to supposed problem deriving data from
> Royal Mails postbox list.
>
> http://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/legal-talk/2009-July/002560.html
>
> I plan on emailing whoever responded to the original FOI request at
> Royal Mail and see if we can get explicit permission to use the data.
>
> Ciarán
The original list contains a post code which Royal Mail might well be 
touchy about given the WikiLeak of their postcode DB.  The location 
information is far too vague to position a box without a visit and 
sometimes a treasure hunt at which point the reference can usually be 
gathered (if the box hasn't been vandalised) but we can only get the 
post code from the Royal Mail, so good luck.

Cheers, Chris

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Re: [Talk-GB] Locating Postboxes article Guardian

[Ciarán Mooney]

Hi,

Also I've spoken to Draco in the past, and his website does not sync
with OSM. He has tried to get help with a mass import but the
discussion was rat-holed due to supposed problem deriving data from
Royal Mails postbox list.

http://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/legal-talk/2009-July/002560.html

I plan on emailing whoever responded to the original FOI request at
Royal Mail and see if we can get explicit permission to use the data.

Ciarán

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Re: [Talk-GB] UK government postcode/geolocation/nhs information leaked

[Tim Waters]

Doh, "without quote marks" I mean, not asterisks! hehe.

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Re: [Talk-GB] UK government postcode/geolocation/nhs information leaked

[Tim Waters]

2009/9/16 John Robert Peterson :
> We may not be able to "use it" but mabee we can use it to highlight
> inacuaracies in our data, how do the legalities stand whith that sort of
> thing? that could clean up the postcode data awesomly.

Hehe, I think using it without asterisks is still using it and quite wrong :)
In OSM, we don't need or want to use proprietary data to make our free
map. Freethepostcode and npe-maps are both efforts to free up postcode
information regardless of the powers to be. Similar to how OSM didn't
hang around waiting for the OS to release Mastermap, these efforts
aren't waiting for the Royal Mail to release the data. And the most
powerful point of doing it ourselves is that we really no longer need
or want the OS to release their data anymore. Ours is better.

So, whilst it would be illegal, and wrong for us to take that leaked
dataset and use it, all academics and students in the UK do have
access to the very same, or better, dataset and could do such a study
quite easily and publicly - similar to Muki's comparisons of Ordnance
Survey's datasets and OSM. Might not clean up our data, but it could
be a good starting point to help improve our own data collection
efforts with postcodes.

> Would this be a good time to petitioning the government to give us access to
> this data, after all, I'm sure we have people around here that are capable
> of wording such a request convincingly.

Whilst I think internet petitions are rubbish, and requests for it to
be released have been written several times over the years, it is a
good time to raise the issue of closed public geodata in general. The
guardian's free our data campaign for example have been banging away
at this for some time now.

Incidentally, what I would be interested in finding out is how many
trap postcodes are in the dataset. Together with the number of
postcodes that are changed added and deleted with each iteration, and
their list of who (and therefore who hasn't) has a licence for the
database, would it be enough to fingerprint that wikileaked dataset?

Cheers,

Tim
http://thinkwhere.wordpress.com

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Re: [Talk-GB] Locating Postboxes article Guardian

[Shaun McDonald]

Nice article, though I'm sure there is an inaccuracy there as the  
Royal Mail don't actually know the exact locations of the post boxes,  
instead they have a rough description which was provided through the  
FOI.


Shaun

On 17 Sep 2009, at 10:48, Bob Kerr wrote:


Hi all,

Just in case you missed it, there is an article in the Guardian  
about the location of Postboxes and post offices in the UK.


http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/2009/sep/16/freedom-of-information-postboxes

It then leads to the place where we can put this info onto  
openstreetmap


http://www.dracos.co.uk/play/locating-postboxes/

Cheers

Bob

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Re: [Talk-GB] Locating Postboxes article Guardian

[Glenn Proctor]

On Thu, Sep 17, 2009 at 10:48 AM, Bob Kerr
 wrote:
>
> Hi all,
> Just in case you missed it, there is an article in the Guardian about the 
> location of Postboxes and post offices in the UK.
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/2009/sep/16/freedom-of-information-postboxes
> It then leads to the place where we can put this info onto openstreetmap
> http://www.dracos.co.uk/play/locating-postboxes/

Interesting - however the OSM maps he's using have a large and
misleading "Powered by Google" logo! See

http://www.dracos.co.uk/play/locating-postboxes/?pc1=ip33

OSM is properly credited elsewhere but the Google logo is the first
thing you see, and I think anyone who isn't an avid OSM-er would
assume this is a Google map.

Glenn.

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[Talk-GB] Locating Postboxes article Guardian

[Bob Kerr]

Hi all,
Just in case you missed it, there is an article in the Guardian about the 
location of Postboxes and post offices in the UK.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/2009/sep/16/freedom-of-information-postboxes
It then leads to the place where we can put this info onto openstreetmap
http://www.dracos.co.uk/play/locating-postboxes/
Cheers
Bob


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