Re: [Talk-gb-westmidlands] Elan Aqueduct - visible features not rendering
On 17 November 2011 16:06, Andy Robinson ajrli...@gmail.com wrote: Andy Mabbett [mailto:a...@pigsonthewing.org.uk] wrote: Sent: 17 November 2011 13:22 To: talk-gb-westmidlands Subject: [Talk-gb-westmidlands] Elan Aqueduct - visible features not rendering Visible parts of the Elan Aqueduct, such as that photographed at: http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Elan_Aqueduct_Crossing_- _geograph.org.uk_-_1708280.jpg which is at: http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=52.368915lon=- 2.581569zoom=15layers=M http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/45084853 and tagged: layer=1 bridge=yes man_made=pipeline type=water source=npe name=Elan Aqueduct are not rendering on the map. Should they be taged as building=yes, or with some other value? Or do we need to raise a bug to get bridges which are on pipelines rendered? It's not a building. I'd personally tag it as bridge=aqueduct, cos that's what it is. Fair enough. Is there a method (pref in JOSM) to bulk rename (or to download) anything tagged bridge=yes and with Elan in the name? As for rendering, well that's a different matter. Possibly a feature request rather than a bug if its not rendering. OK. I've looked, but can't find where to do that. Can you give me a URL, please? -- Andy Mabbett @pigsonthewing http://pigsonthewing.org.uk ___ Talk-gb-westmidlands mailing list Talk-gb-westmidlands@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb-westmidlands
Re: [Talk-GB] Naptan Imports
On 24 November 2011 00:17, Peter J Stoner stone...@mytraveline.info wrote: I am surprised if you say that in OSM a Custom and Practice (CUS) stop would not be coded as highway=bus_stop, as in public transport terms it is recognised as the location of a bus stop, even though there is not a flag on that side of the road. It's mainly because if conflicts with our on-the-ground rule - given there's no physical evidence of a bus stop at that location, it can be quite difficult to resolve any disputes over its location. Hence the caution about marking it, because we have little opportunity to correct it. Also, in my opinion, unmarked bus stops are a daft concept to begin with, seemingly dreamed up to make life harder than it needs to be! Imagine if Network Rail started creating unmarked Custom and Practice railway stations - where you were expected to guess the location, stand beside the line and hope the trains stopped when you put your hand out! Cheers, Andy ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [Talk-GB] Naptan Imports
Andy Allan gravityst...@gmail.com wrote: Also, in my opinion, unmarked bus stops are a daft concept to begin with, seemingly dreamed up to make life harder than it needs to be! +1 Why would you have a stop without a sign as a deliberate strategy? It completely defies the idea of bus stops being marked as a place to wait knowing a bus will stop there. -- Cheers, Chris (osm:chillly) ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [Talk-GB] Naptan Imports
Preston bus (used?) to operate on a hail and ride basis - i.e. it would stop anywhere on the estates to pick people up and set them down - in reality this became a few set places (i.e. where the footpath was paved up to the road edge rather than having a grass verge) but still rather handy actually! the set down places still seam to be used but the pick up places are all bus stop a now (however there are more than there used to be - most installed where people used to hail and ride). Seams to be a sensible idea for a new build estate - put the paths and bus stops where the people want then! Also a couple of buses a day were extended past the terminus so there was a customary stop opposite the terminus (now signed on the route I know best as its no longer a terminus for most services!). On Nov 24, 2011 9:22 AM, Chris Hill o...@raggedred.net wrote: Andy Allan gravityst...@gmail.com wrote: Also, in my opinion, unmarked bus stops are a daft concept to begin with, seemingly dreamed up to make life harder than it needs to be! +1 Why would you have a stop without a sign as a deliberate strategy? It completely defies the idea of bus stops being marked as a place to wait knowing a bus will stop there. -- Cheers, Chris (osm:chillly) ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [Talk-GB] Naptan Imports
I used to occasionally use a bus service in the London Borough of Sutton that did the same thing. Tom On 24 November 2011 10:27, Kev js1982 o...@kevswindells.eu wrote: Preston bus (used?) to operate on a hail and ride basis - i.e. it would stop anywhere on the estates to pick people up and set them down - in reality this became a few set places (i.e. where the footpath was paved up to the road edge rather than having a grass verge) but still rather handy actually! the set down places still seam to be used but the pick up places are all bus stop a now (however there are more than there used to be - most installed where people used to hail and ride). Seams to be a sensible idea for a new build estate - put the paths and bus stops where the people want then! Also a couple of buses a day were extended past the terminus so there was a customary stop opposite the terminus (now signed on the route I know best as its no longer a terminus for most services!). On Nov 24, 2011 9:22 AM, Chris Hill o...@raggedred.net wrote: Andy Allan gravityst...@gmail.com wrote: Also, in my opinion, unmarked bus stops are a daft concept to begin with, seemingly dreamed up to make life harder than it needs to be! +1 Why would you have a stop without a sign as a deliberate strategy? It completely defies the idea of bus stops being marked as a place to wait knowing a bus will stop there. -- Cheers, Chris (osm:chillly) ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb -- http://tom.acrewoods.net http://twitter.com/tom_chance ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [Talk-GB] Naptan Imports
Hail ride can be a great idea both on a housing estate and in some rural areas. A CUS stop is not really like this. A CUS stop is a single place that a bus will stop, sometimes in an isolated place, sometimes near another stop, but without a sign to say so. I have surveyed a couple of thousand bus stops both in a city and in rural areas and the point of having a bus stop without a sign continues to escape me. -- Cheers, Chris user: chillly On 24/11/11 10:27, Kev js1982 wrote: Preston bus (used?) to operate on a hail and ride basis - i.e. it would stop anywhere on the estates to pick people up and set them down - in reality this became a few set places (i.e. where the footpath was paved up to the road edge rather than having a grass verge) but still rather handy actually! the set down places still seam to be used but the pick up places are all bus stop a now (however there are more than there used to be - most installed where people used to hail and ride). Seams to be a sensible idea for a new build estate - put the paths and bus stops where the people want then! Also a couple of buses a day were extended past the terminus so there was a customary stop opposite the terminus (now signed on the route I know best as its no longer a terminus for most services!). On Nov 24, 2011 9:22 AM, Chris Hill o...@raggedred.net mailto:o...@raggedred.net wrote: Andy Allan gravityst...@gmail.com mailto:gravityst...@gmail.com wrote: Also, in my opinion, unmarked bus stops are a daft concept to begin with, seemingly dreamed up to make life harder than it needs to be! +1 Why would you have a stop without a sign as a deliberate strategy? It completely defies the idea of bus stops being marked as a place to wait knowing a bus will stop there. -- Cheers, Chris (osm:chillly) ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org mailto:Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [Talk-GB] Naptan Imports
In message CAMNOZYHkg3Tdrd0hyqD975trri2tjbVfNpUNb42wLWqzsbhwXA@mail.g mail.com you wrote: Preston bus (used?) to operate on a hail and ride basis - i.e. it would stop anywhere on the estates to pick people up and set them down - in reality this became a few set places (i.e. where the footpath was paved up to the road edge rather than having a grass verge) but still rather handy actually! the set down places still seam to be used but the pick up places are all bus stop a now (however there are more than there used to be - most installed where people used to hail and ride). Seams to be a sensible idea for a new build estate - put the paths and bus stops where the people want then! Also a couple of buses a day were extended past the terminus so there was a customary stop opposite the terminus (now signed on the route I know best as its no longer a terminus for most services!). I hope this discussion of the finer points of bus stop strategy is not boring most people on the list. Should this move over to talk-transit? NaPTAN has a separate method of describing Hail and Ride on suburban estates. I am not sure is OSM has imported it, I will need to look for an example. It is usually better that a local authority does not use H R method in rural areas or where road speeds are higher, as the number of places it may be safe for the bus to stop will be limited. Traveline has some guidance to local authorities about this at http://travelinedata.org.uk/naptanr.htm You have correctly identified one circumstance where it may be deliberate strategy not to locate bus stops on estates, at least not until the stopping places get established by user preference. In rural areas the deliberate strategy not to mark all stopping places is primarily one of cost and in some places there would be objections because of the visual intrusion in scenic areas. In these circumstances a description of the stop in relation to a point of interest is usually sufficient to indicate the place where it is safe for people to wait eg lane end, farm gate, phone box. On Nov 24, 2011 9:22 AM, Chris Hill o...@raggedred.net wrote: Andy Allan gravityst...@gmail.com wrote: Also, in my opinion, unmarked bus stops are a daft concept to begin with, seemingly dreamed up to make life harder than it needs to be! +1 Why would you have a stop without a sign as a deliberate strategy? It completely defies the idea of bus stops being marked as a place to wait knowing a bus will stop there. -- Cheers, Chris (osm:chillly) ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb -- Peter J Stoner UK Coordinator http://travelinedata.org.uk Traveline Traveline Information Ltd company number 3826797 Drury House, 34-43 Russell Street, LONDON WC2B 5HA ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [Talk-GB] Naptan Imports
It's so they can close an unprofitable bus route due to 'lack of usage by customers' :-) PHILLIP BARNETT SERVER MANAGER 200 GRAY'S INN ROAD LONDON WC1X 8XZ UNITED KINGDOM T +44 (0)20 7430 4474 F E phillip.barn...@itn.co.uk WWW.ITN.CO.UK Please consider the environment. Do you really need to print this email? -Original Message- From: Chris Hill [mailto:o...@raggedred.net] Sent: 24 November 2011 11:03 To: talk-gb@openstreetmap.org Subject: Re: [Talk-GB] Naptan Imports Hail ride can be a great idea both on a housing estate and in some rural areas. A CUS stop is not really like this. A CUS stop is a single place that a bus will stop, sometimes in an isolated place, sometimes near another stop, but without a sign to say so. I have surveyed a couple of thousand bus stops both in a city and in rural areas and the point of having a bus stop without a sign continues to escape me. -- Cheers, Chris user: chillly On 24/11/11 10:27, Kev js1982 wrote: Preston bus (used?) to operate on a hail and ride basis - i.e. it would stop anywhere on the estates to pick people up and set them down - in reality this became a few set places (i.e. where the footpath was paved up to the road edge rather than having a grass verge) but still rather handy actually! the set down places still seam to be used but the pick up places are all bus stop a now (however there are more than there used to be - most installed where people used to hail and ride). Seams to be a sensible idea for a new build estate - put the paths and bus stops where the people want then! Also a couple of buses a day were extended past the terminus so there was a customary stop opposite the terminus (now signed on the route I know best as its no longer a terminus for most services!). On Nov 24, 2011 9:22 AM, Chris Hill o...@raggedred.net mailto:o...@raggedred.net wrote: Andy Allan gravityst...@gmail.com mailto:gravityst...@gmail.com wrote: Also, in my opinion, unmarked bus stops are a daft concept to begin with, seemingly dreamed up to make life harder than it needs to be! +1 Why would you have a stop without a sign as a deliberate strategy? It completely defies the idea of bus stops being marked as a place to wait knowing a bus will stop there. -- Cheers, Chris (osm:chillly) ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org mailto:Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb Please Note: Any views or opinions are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of Independent Television News Limited unless specifically stated. This email and any files attached are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to which they are addressed. If you have received this email in error, please notify postmas...@itn.co.uk Please note that to ensure regulatory compliance and for the protection of our clients and business, we may monitor and read messages sent to and from our systems. Thank You. ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
[Talk-GB] Anyone interested in participating in a distributed Freemap?
Hello everyone, Thought I'd email this as I have some thoughts as to how Freemap (free-map.org.uk; countryside-orientated mapping for UK users) could operate without excessive demands on a single server. Basically, I'm wondering if anyone has unused server space/bandwidth allowances who might want to become part of a distributed Freemap. It is a not-for-profit project, so there would be no financial comeback, but just thought I'd ask in case anyone is interested in participating. The plan I have is something like this. Freemap aims to provide the following services: * custom rendering of tiles for the whole of the UK, in a style geared towards highlighting features for walkers (rights of way, permissive paths etc) and distinguishing between physical properties of paths and legal access rights (showing both as two layers, i.e. ROW status as semi-transparent top layer) * add annotations (interesting views, path blockages etc) via web or mobile interface * allow users to plan walks via web interface and then play walk routes in the mobile app * a web service which provides POIs and OSM ways/polygons in a format optimised for rendering. Queries can be by Google tile or by bounding box in a range of projections. The underlying DB is the standard osm postgis DB so the data is not generated in OSM format but in a format which reflects the underlying DB structure. See for example http://www.free-map.org.uk/ws/trsvr.php?x=4079y=2740z=13. * a web service to deliver SRTM or OS LandForm Panorama data, no need for any additional servers for this, I can handle this myself. (The web services are currently used by Android and WebGL clients to render the data in 3D and to find nearby POIs) The distributed architecture I would have in mind is: * each server deals with a particular box within the UK * the master server (my own) would deal with dispatching requests to the appropriate server depending on bbox The requirements of the other servers would be: * standard OSM postgis DB installed * osmosis and osm2pgsql installed * shell access for cron job updates * postgres DB to store height data, as per the relevant OSM wiki page: consequently gdal needs to be present. I would supply: - Freemap source code, hopefully with some kind of installer - script to set up the Freemap-specific DB tables - cron scripts to fetch relevant data from Geofabrik on a regular basis (every 2 weeks probably sufficient) and update the database. - relevant NASA SRTM height files If you are participating, feel free to suggest changes to the default stylesheet (or even make them yourself!) and hack on the code. Would anyone be interested? Thanks, Nick ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [Talk-GB] Anyone interested in participating in a distributed Freemap?
On 24 November 2011 14:00, Nick Whitelegg nick.whitel...@solent.ac.uk wrote: The requirements of the other servers would be: * standard OSM postgis DB installed * osmosis and osm2pgsql installed * shell access for cron job updates * postgres DB to store height data, as per the relevant OSM wiki page: consequently gdal needs to be present. In addition to that, how much disk space, processor grunt, memory and bandwidth would one need to be useful? -- Philip Stubbs ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [Talk-GB] Anyone interested in participating in a distributed Freemap?
Just something along the lines of my Bytemark VM would be probably enough, I think that's 512MB memory. Not sure about the other specs. Obviously excessive memory demands are unreasonable for a not for profit project, the end-user will just have to live with what they get... unless they want to donate money of course. Nick -Philip Stubbs phi...@stuphi.co.uk wrote: - To: Nick Whitelegg nick.whitel...@solent.ac.uk From: Philip Stubbs phi...@stuphi.co.uk Date: 24/11/2011 03:01PM Cc: talk-gb@openstreetmap.org Subject: Re: [Talk-GB] Anyone interested in participating in a distributed Freemap? On 24 November 2011 14:00, Nick Whitelegg nick.whitel...@solent.ac.uk wrote: The requirements of the other servers would be: * standard OSM postgis DB installed * osmosis and osm2pgsql installed * shell access for cron job updates * postgres DB to store height data, as per the relevant OSM wiki page: consequently gdal needs to be present. In addition to that, how much disk space, processor grunt, memory and bandwidth would one need to be useful? -- Philip Stubbs ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
