Re: [Talk-GB] UK Retail chains
On Sat, Oct 25, 2014 at 08:19:25PM +0100, Dan S wrote: > > However two nodes with standard tags don't distinguish "W H Smiths > > inside Post office" from the inverse. That seems a useful distinction. > > sub_shop=yes is ugly, but perhaps something along these lines already > > exists or is needed? > > This may have been discussed heavily elsewhere, I don't know. My own > opinion is that if you need something to be _inside_ something else, > there's no point trying to do that just with nodes, since areas are > perfect for the job! Agreed, but it breaks the symmetry and requires more careful survey. In my case, gps is a bit poor among tall buildings, and the shops are all in one big building. I can get a rough outline from Bing, but the inner walls would be guesswork. I don't want to introduce spurious accuracy into the database, so nodes seem appropriate here. I suppose a relation might capture the semantics, but I don't think that would be very obvious to the average user, who may not be a mapper at all. He/she needs to know he has to go inside WHS to find the Post Office. I suppose the obvious rendering would be as you suggest: WHS as an area containing the PO. Ho hum... ael ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [Talk-GB] [OSM-talk] OpenStreetMap ten years on, and why it's time for a fresh slate
>I can recite a few of them. We have very little mobile presence, even >though smartphones are ideal surveying devices; a 5% intervention here >would bring so many more people to our 95%. Interesting points. I'd hope most of us, though, remain idealistic beyond our 20s and don't turn into some sort of technophobic Farage-loving bore. ;-) Regarding your point here, I've always wondered (and I think I mentioned this some time ago) whether there would be room for an "easy" footpaths editor (sorry to go on about footpaths but it's my "pet" OSM thing). The user simply records their GPS trace on their phone via a custom app, and selects, via a simple dropdown etc, the current right-of-way type (footpath, bridleway etc). The trace is simplified (e.g. Douglas-Peucker) and converted directly to an OSM file (I think this is what I did way back with osmeditor... anyone remember that?) When back home the data is uploaded. This could be done in a number of ways e.g. OSM data could be downloaded and then some sort of algorithm applied to detect which part of the trace is new. Those segments which are new are then joined - initially automatically but with option to change - to existing data and then uploaded to the server. Alternatively, one could "throw" some OSM data at the server and have the server figure out which parts are new and which are not - though that would of course involve an extension to the API. Is this something that could be of interest? (cc to talk-gb as it's slightly UK-centric but could be used elsewhere potentially) Nick___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [Talk-GB] UK Retail chains
2014-10-25 20:14 GMT+01:00 ael : > On Sat, Oct 25, 2014 at 07:39:49PM +0100, Dan S wrote: >> 2014-10-25 17:48 GMT+01:00 ael : >> >> >I have made a large update to the UK retail chain page: >> >> > https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/UK_Retail_Chains >> > >> > I am not sure that this is on topic here, but I didn't see the Post >> > Office there. Presumably it now counts now as a private business, >> > although perhaps not quite "retail". >> > >> > Our local main office has just closed and moved to a shop within a >> > shop (W H Smith in this case). A quick wiki search didn't get a hit >> > on how to tag this sort of sub shop, although I know, of course, that >> > this is a common situation with department stores. >> > >> > Is there an agreed way to tag this? Just add amenity=post_office >> > to the to the same node as the shop tag? Or add a second node? Or >> > something else? >> >> Hi - >> >> I certainly would not add it to the same node. It's only coincidence >> that the tag is a different key so it lets you do that - and after all >> it may have different name=*, different opening_hours=*, etc. A second > > That's true. I would have noticed when I tried to do it :-) > > However two nodes with standard tags don't distinguish "W H Smiths > inside Post office" from the inverse. That seems a useful distinction. > sub_shop=yes is ugly, but perhaps something along these lines already > exists or is needed? This may have been discussed heavily elsewhere, I don't know. My own opinion is that if you need something to be _inside_ something else, there's no point trying to do that just with nodes, since areas are perfect for the job! Dan ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [Talk-GB] UK Retail chains
On Sat, Oct 25, 2014 at 07:39:49PM +0100, Dan S wrote: > 2014-10-25 17:48 GMT+01:00 ael : > >> >I have made a large update to the UK retail chain page: > >> > https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/UK_Retail_Chains > > > > I am not sure that this is on topic here, but I didn't see the Post > > Office there. Presumably it now counts now as a private business, > > although perhaps not quite "retail". > > > > Our local main office has just closed and moved to a shop within a > > shop (W H Smith in this case). A quick wiki search didn't get a hit > > on how to tag this sort of sub shop, although I know, of course, that > > this is a common situation with department stores. > > > > Is there an agreed way to tag this? Just add amenity=post_office > > to the to the same node as the shop tag? Or add a second node? Or > > something else? > > Hi - > > I certainly would not add it to the same node. It's only coincidence > that the tag is a different key so it lets you do that - and after all > it may have different name=*, different opening_hours=*, etc. A second That's true. I would have noticed when I tried to do it :-) However two nodes with standard tags don't distinguish "W H Smiths inside Post office" from the inverse. That seems a useful distinction. sub_shop=yes is ugly, but perhaps something along these lines already exists or is needed? ael ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [Talk-GB] UK Retail chains
2014-10-25 17:48 GMT+01:00 ael : >> >I have made a large update to the UK retail chain page: >> > https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/UK_Retail_Chains > > I am not sure that this is on topic here, but I didn't see the Post > Office there. Presumably it now counts now as a private business, > although perhaps not quite "retail". > > Our local main office has just closed and moved to a shop within a > shop (W H Smith in this case). A quick wiki search didn't get a hit > on how to tag this sort of sub shop, although I know, of course, that > this is a common situation with department stores. > > Is there an agreed way to tag this? Just add amenity=post_office > to the to the same node as the shop tag? Or add a second node? Or > something else? Hi - I certainly would not add it to the same node. It's only coincidence that the tag is a different key so it lets you do that - and after all it may have different name=*, different opening_hours=*, etc. A second node is fine. For things like department stores (which have a big spatial extent) it's pretty clear that the main store can be a large way, and sub-shops can be nodes inside them. Best Dan ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [Talk-GB] UK Retail chains
> >I have made a large update to the UK retail chain page: > > https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/UK_Retail_Chains I am not sure that this is on topic here, but I didn't see the Post Office there. Presumably it now counts now as a private business, although perhaps not quite "retail". Our local main office has just closed and moved to a shop within a shop (W H Smith in this case). A quick wiki search didn't get a hit on how to tag this sort of sub shop, although I know, of course, that this is a common situation with department stores. Is there an agreed way to tag this? Just add amenity=post_office to the to the same node as the shop tag? Or add a second node? Or something else? ael ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [Talk-GB] UK Retail chains
Matthijs wrote: >Dear all, > >I have made a large update to the UK retail chain page: > https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/UK_Retail_Chains > Thanks Matthijs and everyone else who has contributed since. I know that retail mapping is one of Matthijs' pet projects (he always picks up the retail areas at our local Mappa Mercia meetings) and that his intentions with the mechanical edit are well intended. I'm pleased to see others contributing with their knowledge of the UK retail space. The UK retail space is an area that confuses me and I have difficulty picking the right tag and name (branding seems to change all the time). As such I've added a link to the above page from the UK page and the UK tagging guidelines page: https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/United_Kingdom#Find_Out_More http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/United_Kingdom_Tagging_Guidelines#See_also Regards, Rob ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [Talk-GB] RFC Mechanical edit: UK Shop Names
You say "we manually exclude bus stops (highway=bus_stop) " I would have thought you should only be changing where there is a shop tag. If not your "Cotswold -> Cotswold Outdoor" would change http://www.openstreetmap.org/way/146053979. Ian On 24 October 2014 20:39, Matthijs Melissen wrote: > On 24 October 2014 14:44, Matthijs Melissen > wrote: > > I am proposing to unify the names of chain shops within the UK. For > > details, please see > > > https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Mechanical_Edits/Math1985/UK_Shop_Names > . > > Thank you for all comments so far. Based on the comments, I made the > following changes: > > - I removed most changes to the co-operative stores, as their > inconsistent signs means that they require a local visit. > - Majestic (Wine (Warehouse)) is a difficult case because they're very > inconsistent in the way they use their brand. I decided to go with > Majestic Wine Warehouse, which is the current most popular name. > - I dropped the Nisa change. > - Marks & Spencer Simply Food is now changed to M&S Simply Food, > instead of the other way around. > > People mentioned the Wilkinsons to Wilko change, but please note that > I never proposed to automatically change this. As not all shops have > been changed, we cannot handle this in an automated way. > > The brand tag, as well as moving location information into a different > tag, would be worth looking at to, but I consider it out of scope of > the current changes. > > Please let me know if there are more changes that need to be made to > the proposed list. > > -- Matthijs > > ___ > Talk-GB mailing list > Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb > ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
