Re: [Talk-GB] Disclaimer

[Pmailkeey .]

True - not even footpaths go where OS shows they do !

On 28 January 2015 at 15:41, Lester Caine  wrote:

> On 28/01/15 01:13, Neil Matthews wrote:
> > Do we need an OSM disclaimer -- I've just had a mail from a gentleman
> > enquiring why an underground powerline
> >
> http://www.openstreetmap.org/way/127968407/history#map=17/51.50283/-2.55462
> > was drawn on OSM -- as he didn't want to buy a house on top of it and
> > Western Power told him the powerline couldn't be there! I think he
> > joined OSM just to message me?!?
>
> When I lived in Hillingdon I wanted to build a garage at the bottom of
> the garden. The OS maps showed a storm water drain running through the
> next property and under the track behind where I wanted to build. I had
> to dig down and show that we were clear of that drain ... except it was
> 6' further over ... right under the corner of the garage. So now there
> is a wooden porch which can be taken down if they need access. Bottom
> line - even the OS maps can't be taken as accurate!
>
> --
> Lester Caine - G8HFL
> -
> Contact - http://lsces.co.uk/wiki/?page=contact
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Re: [Talk-GB] Disclaimer

[Lester Caine]

On 28/01/15 01:13, Neil Matthews wrote:
> Do we need an OSM disclaimer -- I've just had a mail from a gentleman
> enquiring why an underground powerline
> http://www.openstreetmap.org/way/127968407/history#map=17/51.50283/-2.55462
> was drawn on OSM -- as he didn't want to buy a house on top of it and
> Western Power told him the powerline couldn't be there! I think he
> joined OSM just to message me?!?

When I lived in Hillingdon I wanted to build a garage at the bottom of
the garden. The OS maps showed a storm water drain running through the
next property and under the track behind where I wanted to build. I had
to dig down and show that we were clear of that drain ... except it was
6' further over ... right under the corner of the garage. So now there
is a wooden porch which can be taken down if they need access. Bottom
line - even the OS maps can't be taken as accurate!

-- 
Lester Caine - G8HFL
-
Contact - http://lsces.co.uk/wiki/?page=contact
L.S.Caine Electronic Services - http://lsces.co.uk
EnquirySolve - http://enquirysolve.com/
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Rainbow Digital Media - http://rainbowdigitalmedia.co.uk

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Re: [Talk-GB] Disclaimer

[Pmailkeey .]

If you sold the ladder to your neighbour, you'd be ok cos then it'd be his
ladder to do what he wanted with it - and you'd lose the liability as you
couldn't prevent him doing whatever he likes with his ladder. That's the
big difference. Best thing then is only to *sell *info on OSM map..

On 28 January 2015 at 15:20, Phillip Barnett 
wrote:

> And car manufacturers are legally responsible for 4 deaths every year?
> They'd soon be out of business if so. I can't believe that lending your
> neighbour a piece of equipment in good working order would make you
> responsible for injury. If you knew it was damaged, however, and did not
> make your neighbour aware of this fact, then yes, you most likely would be
> liable.
>
>
>
> On 28 Jan 2015, at 14:24, Pmailkeey .  wrote:
>
> A 10 year old who buys cigarettes might conceivably accidentally smoke
> them.
>
> On 28 January 2015 at 14:21, Phillip Barnett 
> wrote:
>
>> So all shopkeepers are liable if they sell a hedge trimmer to someone who
>> then cuts off their fingers? I would be very surprised if that was the
>> case
>>
>>
>>
>> On 28 Jan 2015, at 13:52, Pmailkeey .  wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> On 28 January 2015 at 12:10, Ed Loach  wrote:
>>
>>> > On 28/01/2015 01:13, Neil Matthews wrote:
>>> > Do we need an OSM disclaimer
>>>
>>> The copyright page does include:
>>> "Inclusion of data in OpenStreetMap does not imply that the original
>>> data provider endorses OpenStreetMap, provides any warranty, or accepts any
>>> liability."
>>> http://www.openstreetmap.org/copyright
>>>
>>> Ed
>>>
>>>
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>>
>> They would say "you made information available to others for the purpose
>> of them using that information, you cannot deny some liability for when
>> people use that information (whether rightly or wrongly)
>>
>> In UK law, if you lend a neighbour your ladder and hedge trimmer, if he
>> cuts his fingers off as he falls from the ladder, you can be held liable
>> for lending him the gear. Basically, on doing the lending you have a duty
>> to assess whether he's capable of using the gear safely.
>>
>> --
>> Mike.
>> @millomweb  -
>> For all your info on Millom and South Copeland
>> via *the area's premier website - *
>>
>> *currently unavailable due to ongoing harassment of me, my family,
>> property & pets*
>>
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>>
>
>
> --
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> via *the area's premier website - *
>
> *currently unavailable due to ongoing harassment of me, my family,
> property & pets*
>
> T&Cs 
>
>


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Re: [Talk-GB] Disclaimer

[Phillip Barnett]

And car manufacturers are legally responsible for 4 deaths every year? 
They'd soon be out of business if so. I can't believe that lending your 
neighbour a piece of equipment in good working order would make you responsible 
for injury. If you knew it was damaged, however, and did not make your 
neighbour aware of this fact, then yes, you most likely would be liable.



> On 28 Jan 2015, at 14:24, Pmailkeey .  wrote:
> 
> A 10 year old who buys cigarettes might conceivably accidentally smoke them.
> 
> On 28 January 2015 at 14:21, Phillip Barnett  
> wrote:
>> So all shopkeepers are liable if they sell a hedge trimmer to someone who 
>> then cuts off their fingers? I would be very surprised if that was the 
>> case
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> On 28 Jan 2015, at 13:52, Pmailkeey .  wrote:
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
 On 28 January 2015 at 12:10, Ed Loach  wrote:
 > On 28/01/2015 01:13, Neil Matthews wrote:
 > Do we need an OSM disclaimer
 
 The copyright page does include:
 "Inclusion of data in OpenStreetMap does not imply that the original data 
 provider endorses OpenStreetMap, provides any warranty, or accepts any 
 liability."
 http://www.openstreetmap.org/copyright
 
 Ed
 
 
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>>> 
>>> They would say "you made information available to others for the purpose of 
>>> them using that information, you cannot deny some liability for when people 
>>> use that information (whether rightly or wrongly) 
>>> 
>>> In UK law, if you lend a neighbour your ladder and hedge trimmer, if he 
>>> cuts his fingers off as he falls from the ladder, you can be held liable 
>>> for lending him the gear. Basically, on doing the lending you have a duty 
>>> to assess whether he's capable of using the gear safely.
>>> 
>>> -- 
>>> Mike.
>>> @millomweb - For all your info on Millom and South Copeland
>>> via the area's premier website - 
>>> 
>>> currently unavailable due to ongoing harassment of me, my family, property 
>>> & pets
>>> 
>>> T&Cs
>>> ___
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>>> Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org
>>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Mike.
> @millomweb - For all your info on Millom and South Copeland
> via the area's premier website - 
> 
> currently unavailable due to ongoing harassment of me, my family, property & 
> pets
> 
> T&Cs
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Re: [Talk-GB] Disclaimer

[Phillip Barnett]

That's because Companies House are the official legal arbiters of who is, or is 
not, a legally trading company and thus have the ultimate responsibility.



> On 28 Jan 2015, at 14:44, Steve Doerr  wrote:
> 
> On 28/01/2015 01:13, Neil Matthews wrote:
> [snip]
> 
> I guess we might need to be a little careful: 
> http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/one-spelling-error-costs-companies-house-up-to-9-million-after-being-sued-for-ruining-business-10007372.html
> 
> -- 
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> 
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Re: [Talk-GB] Disclaimer

[Steve Doerr]

On 28/01/2015 01:13, Neil Matthews wrote:
[snip]

I guess we might need to be a little careful: 
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/one-spelling-error-costs-companies-house-up-to-9-million-after-being-sued-for-ruining-business-10007372.html


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Re: [Talk-GB] Disclaimer

[Pmailkeey .]

Precisely !

On 28 January 2015 at 14:30, Dave F.  wrote:

> On 28/01/2015 14:24, Pmailkeey . wrote:
>
>> A 10 year old who buys cigarettes might conceivably accidentally smoke
>> them.
>>
>>
> Err.. But it's illegal to sell to under age people.
>
>
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Re: [Talk-GB] Disclaimer

[Dave F.]

On 28/01/2015 14:24, Pmailkeey . wrote:
A 10 year old who buys cigarettes might conceivably accidentally smoke 
them.




Err.. But it's illegal to sell to under age people.

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Re: [Talk-GB] Disclaimer

[Pmailkeey .]

A 10 year old who buys cigarettes might conceivably accidentally smoke them.

On 28 January 2015 at 14:21, Phillip Barnett 
wrote:

> So all shopkeepers are liable if they sell a hedge trimmer to someone who
> then cuts off their fingers? I would be very surprised if that was the
> case
>
>
>
> On 28 Jan 2015, at 13:52, Pmailkeey .  wrote:
>
>
>
> On 28 January 2015 at 12:10, Ed Loach  wrote:
>
>> > On 28/01/2015 01:13, Neil Matthews wrote:
>> > Do we need an OSM disclaimer
>>
>> The copyright page does include:
>> "Inclusion of data in OpenStreetMap does not imply that the original data
>> provider endorses OpenStreetMap, provides any warranty, or accepts any
>> liability."
>> http://www.openstreetmap.org/copyright
>>
>> Ed
>>
>>
>> ___
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>>
>
> They would say "you made information available to others for the purpose
> of them using that information, you cannot deny some liability for when
> people use that information (whether rightly or wrongly)
>
> In UK law, if you lend a neighbour your ladder and hedge trimmer, if he
> cuts his fingers off as he falls from the ladder, you can be held liable
> for lending him the gear. Basically, on doing the lending you have a duty
> to assess whether he's capable of using the gear safely.
>
> --
> Mike.
> @millomweb  -
> For all your info on Millom and South Copeland
> via *the area's premier website - *
>
> *currently unavailable due to ongoing harassment of me, my family,
> property & pets*
>
> T&Cs 
>
> ___
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> Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
>
>


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Re: [Talk-GB] Disclaimer

[Phillip Barnett]

So all shopkeepers are liable if they sell a hedge trimmer to someone who then 
cuts off their fingers? I would be very surprised if that was the case



> On 28 Jan 2015, at 13:52, Pmailkeey .  wrote:
> 
> 
> 
>> On 28 January 2015 at 12:10, Ed Loach  wrote:
>> > On 28/01/2015 01:13, Neil Matthews wrote:
>> > Do we need an OSM disclaimer
>> 
>> The copyright page does include:
>> "Inclusion of data in OpenStreetMap does not imply that the original data 
>> provider endorses OpenStreetMap, provides any warranty, or accepts any 
>> liability."
>> http://www.openstreetmap.org/copyright
>> 
>> Ed
>> 
>> 
>> ___
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>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
> 
> They would say "you made information available to others for the purpose of 
> them using that information, you cannot deny some liability for when people 
> use that information (whether rightly or wrongly) 
> 
> In UK law, if you lend a neighbour your ladder and hedge trimmer, if he cuts 
> his fingers off as he falls from the ladder, you can be held liable for 
> lending him the gear. Basically, on doing the lending you have a duty to 
> assess whether he's capable of using the gear safely.
> 
> -- 
> Mike.
> @millomweb - For all your info on Millom and South Copeland
> via the area's premier website - 
> 
> currently unavailable due to ongoing harassment of me, my family, property & 
> pets
> 
> T&Cs
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Re: [Talk-GB] Disclaimer

[Pmailkeey .]

On 28 January 2015 at 12:10, Ed Loach  wrote:

> > On 28/01/2015 01:13, Neil Matthews wrote:
> > Do we need an OSM disclaimer
>
> The copyright page does include:
> "Inclusion of data in OpenStreetMap does not imply that the original data
> provider endorses OpenStreetMap, provides any warranty, or accepts any
> liability."
> http://www.openstreetmap.org/copyright
>
> Ed
>
>
> ___
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> Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org
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>

They would say "you made information available to others for the purpose of
them using that information, you cannot deny some liability for when people
use that information (whether rightly or wrongly)

In UK law, if you lend a neighbour your ladder and hedge trimmer, if he
cuts his fingers off as he falls from the ladder, you can be held liable
for lending him the gear. Basically, on doing the lending you have a duty
to assess whether he's capable of using the gear safely.

-- 
Mike.
@millomweb  -
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via *the area's premier website - *

*currently unavailable due to ongoing harassment of me, my family, property
& pets*

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Re: [Talk-GB] Disclaimer

[Ed Loach]

> On 28/01/2015 01:13, Neil Matthews wrote:
> Do we need an OSM disclaimer 

The copyright page does include:
"Inclusion of data in OpenStreetMap does not imply that the original data 
provider endorses OpenStreetMap, provides any warranty, or accepts any 
liability."
http://www.openstreetmap.org/copyright

Ed


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Re: [Talk-GB] Disclaimer

[Dave F.]

Hi Neil

Bottom Line: Don't put unverifiable data into OSM.

I've always been against underground cables/pipes. The utility companies 
can't even map them accurately when they're being constructed! Drawing a 
straight line between two stations on, basically, as guess, adds no 
quality. They shouldn't be rendered in a general purpose rendering like 
mapnik, & should really be stored as a separate database & overlaid in a 
specific map for the few that actually require the information.


To answer your question, a disclaimer might be worth displaying, 
however, with reference to the number of people falling in the Avon in 
Bath, no matter how much information you give, you'll always have stupid 
people who ignore it.


Dave F.

On 28/01/2015 01:13, Neil Matthews wrote:
Do we need an OSM disclaimer -- I've just had a mail from a gentleman 
enquiring why an underground powerline 
http://www.openstreetmap.org/way/127968407/history#map=17/51.50283/-2.55462 
was drawn on OSM -- as he didn't want to buy a house on top of it and 
Western Power told him the powerline couldn't be there! I think he 
joined OSM just to message me?!?


As it happens I think I may have modified one end to change the 
overhead route adjacent to it -- and when I checked the history I can 
see that I didn't draw in the original version of the underground 
powerline.


I was very tempted to reply with the following disclaimer:
Caveat emptor; the presence/absence of any or all of the following 
items on OpenStreetmap should not be considered definitive: power 
lines, plague pits, mines, flood planes, mobile phone masts -- but all 
contributions on these and other topics to OpenStreetmap are warmly 
welcomed.


Unfortunately, I took the easy way out and merely referred him to his 
solicitor and surveyer :-(


I suspect he might have been more upset if he was selling...

Cheers,
Neil (ndm)


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