Re: [Talk-GB] OS OpenData now OGL
On 23 February 2015 at 16:07, Rob Nickerson wrote: > I think you are overly risk averse in this case and it could limit > interesting uses of this data. The risk all along was that the OS could take > offence to how we are using the data (the local authorities we forced to use > the OS OpenData licence when they just wanted to make the data available as > open). Yeah of course the OS cannot retrospectively change the licence of > things released in the past but the fact that they have removed the licence > text from their website and put a url redirect to the OGL suggests to me > that the OS OpenData licence is dead. The risk is gone so lets not pretend > otherwise as it will just send a negative message to our community. It depends on whether your aim is to comply with the terms of the licence, or just avoid being sued for violating it. From the latter point of view, I'd entirely agree with you. But I'd prefer to see OSM following the former. If the boot were on the other foot, I'm sure we'd be none too happy for some large company to take our data and ignore OSM's licence, on the grounds that we could never afford to sue them and they didn't care about any negative public opinion. Anyway, it's possible I've mis-interpretted OS's reply, and I've emailed them again to ask for clarification. Reading the PSMA, clause 2.4 specifically refers to allowing the distribution of datasets under the "OS OpenData Licence Terms", which is then essentially defined as the licence OS OpenData is offered under (rather than the old "OS OpenData Licence" itself) -- which is now the OGL. So depending on the precise wording of any correspondence/permission between OS and the other Public Authorities, it's possible the authority has to change the licence to OGL, as it would be violating the PSMA if it continues to distribute the data under a different licence. Although it would be a rather odd agreement that would allow OS to arbitrarily change the licence without notifying the other party. And like the GPL, violating software isn't automatically licensed to any recipients, the author would have the choice to stop distributing it instead. Robert. -- Robert Whittaker ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [Talk-GB] OS OpenData now OGL
That seems inconsistent. If OSM was concerned about the OS OpenData Licence before, with respect to OS data, it should still be concerned with respect to data produced by third parties that continue to use the licence. The OS OpenData Licence is not "dead" if local authorities and other PSMA members consider that it still applies to their data. While it is likely most, if not all, local authorities will follow OS's transition to OGL, OS cannot speak for them or their IP interests in the meantime. Robert (Whittaker) is correct. Owen On 23 February 2015 at 16:07, Rob Nickerson wrote: Robert wrote: > >I think that would be jumping the gun slightly. What I understand from > >OS's answer to me, is that previously released datasets will remain > >under the OS-ODL, and there is no automatic retrospective change of > >the licence. > > > > I think you are overly risk averse in this case and it could limit > interesting uses of this data. The risk all along was that the OS could > take offence to how we are using the data (the local authorities we forced > to use the OS OpenData licence when they just wanted to make the data > available as open). Yeah of course the OS cannot retrospectively change the > licence of things released in the past but the fact that they have removed > the licence text from their website and put a url redirect to the OGL > suggests to me that the OS OpenData licence is dead. The risk is gone so > lets not pretend otherwise as it will just send a negative message to our > community. > > In time we can and should ask each LA to use the new licence but this > shouldn't stop anyone from using the data now. > > Rob > > ___ > Talk-GB mailing list > Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb > > ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [Talk-GB] OS OpenData now OGL
Robert wrote: >I think that would be jumping the gun slightly. What I understand from >OS's answer to me, is that previously released datasets will remain >under the OS-ODL, and there is no automatic retrospective change of >the licence. > I think you are overly risk averse in this case and it could limit interesting uses of this data. The risk all along was that the OS could take offence to how we are using the data (the local authorities we forced to use the OS OpenData licence when they just wanted to make the data available as open). Yeah of course the OS cannot retrospectively change the licence of things released in the past but the fact that they have removed the licence text from their website and put a url redirect to the OGL suggests to me that the OS OpenData licence is dead. The risk is gone so lets not pretend otherwise as it will just send a negative message to our community. In time we can and should ask each LA to use the new licence but this shouldn't stop anyone from using the data now. Rob ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [Talk-GB] OS OpenData now OGL
On 22 February 2015 at 14:55, Rob Nickerson wrote: > I see that the old OS OpenData Licence URL now redirects to OGL version 3 ( > http://www.ordnancesurvey.co.uk/oswebsite/docs/licences/os-opendata-licence.pdf > ) and as such we can safely assume that the OS consider the licence dead. > Other UK agencies who have released data under this licence should update > their text accordingly, if this doesn't happen then a polite email to alert > them of the change would be encouraged. I see no reason to wait for this > change to be made prior to using the data in OpenStreetMap. We have a green > light lets not convince ourselves it's any other colour :-) > > In terms of public rights of way released under the OS OpenData licence, > this means there is nothing blocking our use of this data. I think that would be jumping the gun slightly. What I understand from OS's answer to me, is that previously released datasets will remain under the OS-ODL, and there is no automatic retrospective change of the licence. OS themselves have now updated their licence pages for their own OS OpenData Products, so the current releases of these can now be used under the OGL. (This doesn't change that much for OSM, since we could already use most of those datasets anyway under a separate agreement. But it does mean we can now use CodePoint Open.) Any new datasets released under PSMA exemptions (e.g. Rights of Way GIS datasets from local councils) will presumably be under the OGL by default too. However, for third-party data that was previously released under the PSMA exemption rules under the OS-ODL, I don't believe that OS could re-licence them even if they wanted to -- there's no up-grade clause in the OS-ODL, and OS doesn't own all the rights in the data to allow them to make that decision. Thus even if OS are happy with a change, it's up to the third-party rights holder whether or not they wish to re-licence each dataset. As far as I understand their reply, OS have said that they will be happy for OS-derived datasets previously released under OS-ODL to be re-licenced under the OGL, and will be amending their guidance accordingly. We can only hope that the OS guidance will also make it clear that third-parties are free to re-licence existing datasets, and ideally encourage them to do so. Unless or until any re-licencing occurs, I'm afraid that the datasets would remain available only under the OS-ODL, and so cannot be used in OSM. So I think we'll just have to be patient and wait a little longer... Once OS release their updated PSMA guidance, we can presumably begin contacting third parties asking asking them to re-licence their existing datasets under the OGL. Robert. -- Robert Whittaker ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
