[Talk-GB] London Geodata event

[Steve Chilton]

Would anyone like to promote OpenStreetMap at a major geodata event in London 
next week.
The Society of Cartographers (SoC) have a stand at the London Geodata event on 
3 Dec and for the last 3 years have had an OSMer working in tandem.
It is a great networking event, where many of the main players in the mapping 
and data sector are present.
http://www.geoaware.info/#!geodata-london-/c1vct
Currently I am scheduled to cover the day for SoC with a colleague but we would 
love to have an OSMer with us to concentrate on opendata mapping.
Please have a look at the link and if you feel you could offer a half day shift 
then contact myself.
Entry is free and will be registered by us as 3rd SoC person as we have paid 
the stand fee.

Cheers
Steve


Steve Chilton FSEDA, Teaching Fellow
Lead Academic Developer
Centre for Academic Practice Enhancement (CAPE)
Middlesex University [normal working days Mon-Wed]
phone: 020 8411 5355   email: ste...@mdx.ac.uk
[cid:image001.jpg@01D126A7.F22B6860]
CAPE on the MDX 
Intranet
The latest Workshop schedule available 
here. CAPE Staff 
Development Portal info 
Do you have a special request? Please complete our Bespoke session form 


Profile: http://www.middlesex.wikispaces.net/user/view/steve8
Blog: http://itsahill.wordpress.com/
Chair of the Society of Cartographers: http://www.soc.org.uk/
Chair of ICA Neocartography Commission: http://neocartography.icaci.org/

[cid:image002.png@01D126A7.F22B6860]






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Re: [Talk-GB] Newark on Trent mappers

[SK53]

I've finally (after 8 months) got around to looking at the OpenMap Local
buildings. I needed them for something else which caused me to download the
SK data. I'll say more in a blog post, but for now here are two comparisons
of OpenMap Local buildings with EA Lidar data (DSM-DTM & Z axis
accentuated):

   - Central Newark (note parish church bottom left):
   https://flic.kr/p/ARUvRv
   - Residential area to E of town centre (note terraces):
   https://flic.kr/p/ARUvQP

I've also put a few comparisons of Nottingham between OSM & OpenMap
buildings.

Generally I'd say that the OpenMap Local buildings, although better than
VMD, still have some of the same problems, and particularly that very
similar buildings (such as the terraced houses) may be shown differently,
or that discrete buildings are merged in unpredictable ways. It's also a
bit disappointing that the main medieval building, the parish church is
just shown as a box. The Lidar data looks to have more promise as a base
line for creating buildings. There may be scope to use the OpenMap Local
buildings on a case-by-case basis where these clearly match the
Lidar/Aerial imagery, or where the building shape is obviously simplified &
can be improved (parish church again). I would advise not touching things
like most of the housing and the merged buildings in the central retail
areas. My experience with working with such data is that splitting &
refining such buildings is often a lot more work than drawing them from
scratch.

I have Geotiffs for the DTM, DSM, their difference & hillshaded versions of
the DSM & difference. However I have failed to get these to load in JOSM.
If someone else know the trick do let me know.

Regards,

Jerry



On 20 November 2015 at 13:03, Christian Ledermann <
christian.lederm...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi,
>
> Are there any mappers in and around Newark on Trent?
>
> I'd like to import the "OS Open Map - Local - SK" for newark and liked
> to have some other 'local eyes on it.
>
>
>
> --
> Best Regards,
>
> Christian Ledermann
>
> Newark-on-Trent - UK
> Mobile : +44 7474997517
>
> https://uk.linkedin.com/in/christianledermann
> https://github.com/cleder/
>
>
> <*)))>{
>
> If you save the living environment, the biodiversity that we have left,
> you will also automatically save the physical environment, too. But If
> you only save the physical environment, you will ultimately lose both.
>
> 1) Don’t drive species to extinction
>
> 2) Don’t destroy a habitat that species rely on.
>
> 3) Don’t change the climate in ways that will result in the above.
>
> }<(((*>
>
> ___
> Talk-GB mailing list
> Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
>
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Re: [Talk-GB] Newark on Trent mappers

[Christian Ledermann]

can you send me (a link to) the tiffs, I'd like to have a look at them,
maybe there is a way to auto extract and compare buildings from that data

On 24 November 2015 at 13:19, SK53  wrote:
> I've finally (after 8 months) got around to looking at the OpenMap Local
> buildings. I needed them for something else which caused me to download the
> SK data. I'll say more in a blog post, but for now here are two comparisons
> of OpenMap Local buildings with EA Lidar data (DSM-DTM & Z axis
> accentuated):
>
> Central Newark (note parish church bottom left): https://flic.kr/p/ARUvRv
> Residential area to E of town centre (note terraces):
> https://flic.kr/p/ARUvQP
>
> I've also put a few comparisons of Nottingham between OSM & OpenMap
> buildings.
>
> Generally I'd say that the OpenMap Local buildings, although better than
> VMD, still have some of the same problems, and particularly that very
> similar buildings (such as the terraced houses) may be shown differently, or
> that discrete buildings are merged in unpredictable ways. It's also a bit
> disappointing that the main medieval building, the parish church is just
> shown as a box. The Lidar data looks to have more promise as a base line for
> creating buildings. There may be scope to use the OpenMap Local buildings on
> a case-by-case basis where these clearly match the Lidar/Aerial imagery, or
> where the building shape is obviously simplified & can be improved (parish
> church again). I would advise not touching things like most of the housing
> and the merged buildings in the central retail areas. My experience with
> working with such data is that splitting & refining such buildings is often
> a lot more work than drawing them from scratch.
>
> I have Geotiffs for the DTM, DSM, their difference & hillshaded versions of
> the DSM & difference. However I have failed to get these to load in JOSM. If
> someone else know the trick do let me know.
>
> Regards,
>
> Jerry
>
>
>
>
> On 20 November 2015 at 13:03, Christian Ledermann
>  wrote:
>>
>> Hi,
>>
>> Are there any mappers in and around Newark on Trent?
>>
>> I'd like to import the "OS Open Map - Local - SK" for newark and liked
>> to have some other 'local eyes on it.
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Best Regards,
>>
>> Christian Ledermann
>>
>> Newark-on-Trent - UK
>> Mobile : +44 7474997517
>>
>> https://uk.linkedin.com/in/christianledermann
>> https://github.com/cleder/
>>
>>
>> <*)))>{
>>
>> If you save the living environment, the biodiversity that we have left,
>> you will also automatically save the physical environment, too. But If
>> you only save the physical environment, you will ultimately lose both.
>>
>> 1) Don’t drive species to extinction
>>
>> 2) Don’t destroy a habitat that species rely on.
>>
>> 3) Don’t change the climate in ways that will result in the above.
>>
>> }<(((*>
>>
>> ___
>> Talk-GB mailing list
>> Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org
>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
>
>



-- 
Best Regards,

Christian Ledermann

Newark-on-Trent - UK
Mobile : +44 7474997517

https://uk.linkedin.com/in/christianledermann
https://github.com/cleder/


<*)))>{

If you save the living environment, the biodiversity that we have left,
you will also automatically save the physical environment, too. But If
you only save the physical environment, you will ultimately lose both.

1) Don’t drive species to extinction

2) Don’t destroy a habitat that species rely on.

3) Don’t change the climate in ways that will result in the above.

}<(((*>

___
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Re: [Talk-GB] Newark on Trent mappers

[Christian Ledermann]

there is also the Layer Functional site from which things like School
grounds could be extracted.
As this layer does not have the issues as the buildings (school
grounds of different schools are not merged:)
an import may be more vluable.

On 24 November 2015 at 16:53, Christian Ledermann
 wrote:
> can you send me (a link to) the tiffs, I'd like to have a look at them,
> maybe there is a way to auto extract and compare buildings from that data
>
> On 24 November 2015 at 13:19, SK53  wrote:
>> I've finally (after 8 months) got around to looking at the OpenMap Local
>> buildings. I needed them for something else which caused me to download the
>> SK data. I'll say more in a blog post, but for now here are two comparisons
>> of OpenMap Local buildings with EA Lidar data (DSM-DTM & Z axis
>> accentuated):
>>
>> Central Newark (note parish church bottom left): https://flic.kr/p/ARUvRv
>> Residential area to E of town centre (note terraces):
>> https://flic.kr/p/ARUvQP
>>
>> I've also put a few comparisons of Nottingham between OSM & OpenMap
>> buildings.
>>
>> Generally I'd say that the OpenMap Local buildings, although better than
>> VMD, still have some of the same problems, and particularly that very
>> similar buildings (such as the terraced houses) may be shown differently, or
>> that discrete buildings are merged in unpredictable ways. It's also a bit
>> disappointing that the main medieval building, the parish church is just
>> shown as a box. The Lidar data looks to have more promise as a base line for
>> creating buildings. There may be scope to use the OpenMap Local buildings on
>> a case-by-case basis where these clearly match the Lidar/Aerial imagery, or
>> where the building shape is obviously simplified & can be improved (parish
>> church again). I would advise not touching things like most of the housing
>> and the merged buildings in the central retail areas. My experience with
>> working with such data is that splitting & refining such buildings is often
>> a lot more work than drawing them from scratch.
>>
>> I have Geotiffs for the DTM, DSM, their difference & hillshaded versions of
>> the DSM & difference. However I have failed to get these to load in JOSM. If
>> someone else know the trick do let me know.
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> Jerry
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On 20 November 2015 at 13:03, Christian Ledermann
>>  wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> Are there any mappers in and around Newark on Trent?
>>>
>>> I'd like to import the "OS Open Map - Local - SK" for newark and liked
>>> to have some other 'local eyes on it.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Best Regards,
>>>
>>> Christian Ledermann
>>>
>>> Newark-on-Trent - UK
>>> Mobile : +44 7474997517
>>>
>>> https://uk.linkedin.com/in/christianledermann
>>> https://github.com/cleder/
>>>
>>>
>>> <*)))>{
>>>
>>> If you save the living environment, the biodiversity that we have left,
>>> you will also automatically save the physical environment, too. But If
>>> you only save the physical environment, you will ultimately lose both.
>>>
>>> 1) Don’t drive species to extinction
>>>
>>> 2) Don’t destroy a habitat that species rely on.
>>>
>>> 3) Don’t change the climate in ways that will result in the above.
>>>
>>> }<(((*>
>>>
>>> ___
>>> Talk-GB mailing list
>>> Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org
>>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
>>
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Best Regards,
>
> Christian Ledermann
>
> Newark-on-Trent - UK
> Mobile : +44 7474997517
>
> https://uk.linkedin.com/in/christianledermann
> https://github.com/cleder/
>
>
> <*)))>{
>
> If you save the living environment, the biodiversity that we have left,
> you will also automatically save the physical environment, too. But If
> you only save the physical environment, you will ultimately lose both.
>
> 1) Don’t drive species to extinction
>
> 2) Don’t destroy a habitat that species rely on.
>
> 3) Don’t change the climate in ways that will result in the above.
>
> }<(((*>



-- 
Best Regards,

Christian Ledermann

Newark-on-Trent - UK
Mobile : +44 7474997517

https://uk.linkedin.com/in/christianledermann
https://github.com/cleder/


<*)))>{

If you save the living environment, the biodiversity that we have left,
you will also automatically save the physical environment, too. But If
you only save the physical environment, you will ultimately lose both.

1) Don’t drive species to extinction

2) Don’t destroy a habitat that species rely on.

3) Don’t change the climate in ways that will result in the above.

}<(((*>

___
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Re: [Talk-GB] Newark on Trent mappers

[SK53]

Quick look (Nottingham, of course):

   - Polygons look OK
   - Many features missing (e.g., University of Nottingham Main Campus,
   both sites of Dunkirk Primary School
   - Old features present (e.g., Elms Primary School, closed prior to 2011)
   - Reasonably well attributed.

At the very least it could be used to hunt for missing schools (which I've
done a bit of in N Scotland using Food Hygiene data).

Jerry

On 24 November 2015 at 17:28, Christian Ledermann <
christian.lederm...@gmail.com> wrote:

> there is also the Layer Functional site from which things like School
> grounds could be extracted.
> As this layer does not have the issues as the buildings (school
> grounds of different schools are not merged:)
> an import may be more vluable.
>
> On 24 November 2015 at 16:53, Christian Ledermann
>  wrote:
> > can you send me (a link to) the tiffs, I'd like to have a look at them,
> > maybe there is a way to auto extract and compare buildings from that data
> >
> > On 24 November 2015 at 13:19, SK53  wrote:
> >> I've finally (after 8 months) got around to looking at the OpenMap Local
> >> buildings. I needed them for something else which caused me to download
> the
> >> SK data. I'll say more in a blog post, but for now here are two
> comparisons
> >> of OpenMap Local buildings with EA Lidar data (DSM-DTM & Z axis
> >> accentuated):
> >>
> >> Central Newark (note parish church bottom left):
> https://flic.kr/p/ARUvRv
> >> Residential area to E of town centre (note terraces):
> >> https://flic.kr/p/ARUvQP
> >>
> >> I've also put a few comparisons of Nottingham between OSM & OpenMap
> >> buildings.
> >>
> >> Generally I'd say that the OpenMap Local buildings, although better than
> >> VMD, still have some of the same problems, and particularly that very
> >> similar buildings (such as the terraced houses) may be shown
> differently, or
> >> that discrete buildings are merged in unpredictable ways. It's also a
> bit
> >> disappointing that the main medieval building, the parish church is just
> >> shown as a box. The Lidar data looks to have more promise as a base
> line for
> >> creating buildings. There may be scope to use the OpenMap Local
> buildings on
> >> a case-by-case basis where these clearly match the Lidar/Aerial
> imagery, or
> >> where the building shape is obviously simplified & can be improved
> (parish
> >> church again). I would advise not touching things like most of the
> housing
> >> and the merged buildings in the central retail areas. My experience with
> >> working with such data is that splitting & refining such buildings is
> often
> >> a lot more work than drawing them from scratch.
> >>
> >> I have Geotiffs for the DTM, DSM, their difference & hillshaded
> versions of
> >> the DSM & difference. However I have failed to get these to load in
> JOSM. If
> >> someone else know the trick do let me know.
> >>
> >> Regards,
> >>
> >> Jerry
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> On 20 November 2015 at 13:03, Christian Ledermann
> >>  wrote:
> >>>
> >>> Hi,
> >>>
> >>> Are there any mappers in and around Newark on Trent?
> >>>
> >>> I'd like to import the "OS Open Map - Local - SK" for newark and liked
> >>> to have some other 'local eyes on it.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> --
> >>> Best Regards,
> >>>
> >>> Christian Ledermann
> >>>
> >>> Newark-on-Trent - UK
> >>> Mobile : +44 7474997517
> >>>
> >>> https://uk.linkedin.com/in/christianledermann
> >>> https://github.com/cleder/
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> <*)))>{
> >>>
> >>> If you save the living environment, the biodiversity that we have left,
> >>> you will also automatically save the physical environment, too. But If
> >>> you only save the physical environment, you will ultimately lose both.
> >>>
> >>> 1) Don’t drive species to extinction
> >>>
> >>> 2) Don’t destroy a habitat that species rely on.
> >>>
> >>> 3) Don’t change the climate in ways that will result in the above.
> >>>
> >>> }<(((*>
> >>>
> >>> ___
> >>> Talk-GB mailing list
> >>> Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org
> >>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Best Regards,
> >
> > Christian Ledermann
> >
> > Newark-on-Trent - UK
> > Mobile : +44 7474997517
> >
> > https://uk.linkedin.com/in/christianledermann
> > https://github.com/cleder/
> >
> >
> > <*)))>{
> >
> > If you save the living environment, the biodiversity that we have left,
> > you will also automatically save the physical environment, too. But If
> > you only save the physical environment, you will ultimately lose both.
> >
> > 1) Don’t drive species to extinction
> >
> > 2) Don’t destroy a habitat that species rely on.
> >
> > 3) Don’t change the climate in ways that will result in the above.
> >
> > }<(((*>
>
>
>
> --
> Best Regards,
>
> Christian Ledermann
>
> Newark-on-Trent - UK
> Mobile : +44 7474997517
>
> https://uk.linkedin.com/in/christianledermann
> https://github.com/cleder/
>
>
> <*)))>{
>
> If you save the living environment, the biodiversi

Re: [Talk-GB] Newark on Trent mappers

[SK53]

I dont think the tiffs are good enough for auto-extraction: the resolution
is a mix of 1 & 2 m. There is an edge detection routine available in the
gdal toolset, but I suspect the merging of buildings in OpenMap Local is
due to some similar processing. By the time you fiddle with all the
algorithms you can probably get several hundred buildings mapped using JOSM
directly.

There are around 2400 building features in the 4 sq km I have processed the
Lidar data for : perhaps an hour or so tracing for a week might get most of
them in. It will take a lot longer to start properly adding value by
putting more attributes on them. The town centre is the area which needs
most work: existing traced polygons aren't really very useful, and Newark
still needs more shops. Personally I find this a bit more rewarding than
the slog of address surveying in the 'burbs.

Relevant tiffs here:
https://www.dropbox.com/sh/h8s5pgwkccpqh30/AAAr5SjYccxiUMJZfpPNHHgaa?dl=0 .
The *.vrt files might not work if they have full directory paths encoded.

Jerry





On 24 November 2015 at 16:53, Christian Ledermann <
christian.lederm...@gmail.com> wrote:

> can you send me (a link to) the tiffs, I'd like to have a look at them,
> maybe there is a way to auto extract and compare buildings from that data
>
> On 24 November 2015 at 13:19, SK53  wrote:
> > I've finally (after 8 months) got around to looking at the OpenMap Local
> > buildings. I needed them for something else which caused me to download
> the
> > SK data. I'll say more in a blog post, but for now here are two
> comparisons
> > of OpenMap Local buildings with EA Lidar data (DSM-DTM & Z axis
> > accentuated):
> >
> > Central Newark (note parish church bottom left):
> https://flic.kr/p/ARUvRv
> > Residential area to E of town centre (note terraces):
> > https://flic.kr/p/ARUvQP
> >
> > I've also put a few comparisons of Nottingham between OSM & OpenMap
> > buildings.
> >
> > Generally I'd say that the OpenMap Local buildings, although better than
> > VMD, still have some of the same problems, and particularly that very
> > similar buildings (such as the terraced houses) may be shown
> differently, or
> > that discrete buildings are merged in unpredictable ways. It's also a bit
> > disappointing that the main medieval building, the parish church is just
> > shown as a box. The Lidar data looks to have more promise as a base line
> for
> > creating buildings. There may be scope to use the OpenMap Local
> buildings on
> > a case-by-case basis where these clearly match the Lidar/Aerial imagery,
> or
> > where the building shape is obviously simplified & can be improved
> (parish
> > church again). I would advise not touching things like most of the
> housing
> > and the merged buildings in the central retail areas. My experience with
> > working with such data is that splitting & refining such buildings is
> often
> > a lot more work than drawing them from scratch.
> >
> > I have Geotiffs for the DTM, DSM, their difference & hillshaded versions
> of
> > the DSM & difference. However I have failed to get these to load in
> JOSM. If
> > someone else know the trick do let me know.
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> > Jerry
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On 20 November 2015 at 13:03, Christian Ledermann
> >  wrote:
> >>
> >> Hi,
> >>
> >> Are there any mappers in and around Newark on Trent?
> >>
> >> I'd like to import the "OS Open Map - Local - SK" for newark and liked
> >> to have some other 'local eyes on it.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >> Best Regards,
> >>
> >> Christian Ledermann
> >>
> >> Newark-on-Trent - UK
> >> Mobile : +44 7474997517
> >>
> >> https://uk.linkedin.com/in/christianledermann
> >> https://github.com/cleder/
> >>
> >>
> >> <*)))>{
> >>
> >> If you save the living environment, the biodiversity that we have left,
> >> you will also automatically save the physical environment, too. But If
> >> you only save the physical environment, you will ultimately lose both.
> >>
> >> 1) Don’t drive species to extinction
> >>
> >> 2) Don’t destroy a habitat that species rely on.
> >>
> >> 3) Don’t change the climate in ways that will result in the above.
> >>
> >> }<(((*>
> >>
> >> ___
> >> Talk-GB mailing list
> >> Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org
> >> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
> >
> >
>
>
>
> --
> Best Regards,
>
> Christian Ledermann
>
> Newark-on-Trent - UK
> Mobile : +44 7474997517
>
> https://uk.linkedin.com/in/christianledermann
> https://github.com/cleder/
>
>
> <*)))>{
>
> If you save the living environment, the biodiversity that we have left,
> you will also automatically save the physical environment, too. But If
> you only save the physical environment, you will ultimately lose both.
>
> 1) Don’t drive species to extinction
>
> 2) Don’t destroy a habitat that species rely on.
>
> 3) Don’t change the climate in ways that will result in the above.
>
> }<(((*>
>
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Re: [Talk-GB] Newark on Trent mappers

[Phil Endecott]

SK53 wrote:

Quick look (Nottingham, of course):

   - Polygons look OK
   - Many features missing (e.g., University of Nottingham Main Campus,
   both sites of Dunkirk Primary School
   - Old features present (e.g., Elms Primary School, closed prior to 2011)
   - Reasonably well attributed.

At the very least it could be used to hunt for missing schools (which I've
done a bit of in N Scotland using Food Hygiene data).


Having looked at OpenMap Local for Edinburgh a while ago, my impression is
that they have used some rather primitive rules to identify "important
buildings".  It picks up anything with "school" in the name, but fails to
mark most of the city landmarks - things that are shown in their older "Street
View" data.  So yes, it might work for schools - but not much else.


Cheers,  Phil.







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Re: [Talk-GB] Newark on Trent mappers

[SK53]

Perhaps not even for those give the number of Academies (also missing is
the new academy in Dunkirk). Point in Polygons for Food Hygiene data might
help.

It would also be interesting to see what they do with multi-institution
campuses. My nephews go to school in one such place.

On 24 November 2015 at 18:15, Phil Endecott 
wrote:

> SK53 wrote:
>
>> Quick look (Nottingham, of course):
>>
>>- Polygons look OK
>>- Many features missing (e.g., University of Nottingham Main Campus,
>>both sites of Dunkirk Primary School
>>- Old features present (e.g., Elms Primary School, closed prior to
>> 2011)
>>- Reasonably well attributed.
>>
>> At the very least it could be used to hunt for missing schools (which I've
>> done a bit of in N Scotland using Food Hygiene data).
>>
>
> Having looked at OpenMap Local for Edinburgh a while ago, my impression is
> that they have used some rather primitive rules to identify "important
> buildings".  It picks up anything with "school" in the name, but fails to
> mark most of the city landmarks - things that are shown in their older
> "Street
> View" data.  So yes, it might work for schools - but not much else.
>
>
> Cheers,  Phil.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ___
> Talk-GB mailing list
> Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
>
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