Re: [Talk-GB] Named landuse polygons

2017-01-18 Thread Dan S 
2017-01-18 13:51 GMT+00:00 Dave F :
> Hi
>
> Do people reside & sleep in the park or nursery?
> If 'no' then is it really residential?

...!

> http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:landuse%3Dresidential
>
> As the database becomes more detailed/accurate the "granularity" gets
> smaller. Entities like 'residential' will have less blanket coverage, items
> will be individually tagged Which is what you note in another of your posts:
> "And the address of the nursery also includes "Queen's Park Court": "
> So the cover-all named residential area becomes redundant.

If you're aiming to remove the redundancy from OSM... good luck ;)

It makes perfect sense to me that there can be an identifiable area
whose name is "Queen's Park Court" and also that "Queen's Park Court"
would be a part of the address for some item within it.

Cheers
Dan



> Regarding the nursery I'd redraw the residential around it, map it's
> boundary fence as amenity=kindergarten, transfer all the address data to
> that polygon & tag the building with building=kindergarten. This is how the
> vast majority of the schools were tagged in the recent GB quarterly project.
>
> Cheers
> DaveF
>
> On 18/01/2017 11:24, Derick Rethans wrote:
>>
>> It's part of the residential estate, so I disagree with that. cheers,
>> Derick
>
>
>
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Re: [Talk-GB] Named landuse polygons

2017-01-18 Thread Dave F 
I agree & it's previously been pointed out that contributors are using 
OS opendata streetview, but I don't think it's correct usage of the tag.


isolated farms (I presume you mean farmyards) should be mapped as 
polygons & tag with landuse=farmyard.

Whole farms, including fields, should be landuse=farmland

Cheers
DaveF

On 18/01/2017 13:20, Andrew Hain wrote:


OSM is influenced by the maps its contributors see and are used to. In 
Britain that includes names of isolated farms on Ordnance Survey maps.




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Re: [Talk-GB] Named landuse polygons

2017-01-18 Thread Dave F 

Hi

Do people reside & sleep in the park or nursery?
If 'no' then is it really residential?

http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:landuse%3Dresidential

As the database becomes more detailed/accurate the "granularity" gets 
smaller. Entities like 'residential' will have less blanket coverage, 
items will be individually tagged Which is what you note in another of 
your posts:

"And the address of the nursery also includes "Queen's Park Court": "
So the cover-all named residential area becomes redundant.

Regarding the nursery I'd redraw the residential around it, map it's 
boundary fence as amenity=kindergarten, transfer all the address data to 
that polygon & tag the building with building=kindergarten. This is how 
the vast majority of the schools were tagged in the recent GB quarterly 
project.


Cheers
DaveF

On 18/01/2017 11:24, Derick Rethans wrote:
It's part of the residential estate, so I disagree with that. cheers, 
Derick 



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Re: [Talk-GB] Named landuse polygons

2017-01-18 Thread Andrew Hain 

OSM is influenced by the maps its contributors see and are used to. In Britain 
that includes names of isolated farms on Ordnance Survey maps.

--
Andrew

From: Dave F 
Sent: 17 January 2017 23:00:37
To: talk-gb@openstreetmap.org
Subject: Re: [Talk-GB] Named landuse polygons

Please be aware this is the talk-GB forum.

Use of place=farm in Britain is almost certainly misguided. If anyone
knows of an appropriate location please post here.

It's not use of the tag itself that's the problem, it's contributor's
misinterpretation of it.

DaveF


On 17/01/2017 21:52, Warin wrote:
> On 18-Jan-17 07:27 AM, Dave F wrote:
>>
>> On 17/01/2017 19:38, Warin wrote:
>>
>>> Generally I add a node place=farm as I am not certain where the
>>> boundary lies
>>
>> This is a misuse of this tag. place=farm is for the rare (non
>> existent?) cases where a residential community, such as a hamlet, has
>> acquired the name of an adjacent farm. "a place named by a name of a
>> farm" - http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Farm
>>
>> The description for
>> http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:place%3Dfarm is poorly written
>> & confusing.
>>
>> If mapping just the sheds/farmhouse etc of a farm, landuse=farmyard
>> should be used.
>>
>> It was discussed previously:
>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk-gb/2016-September/019181.html
>>
>>
>> DaveF
>
> In Australia .. place=farm is appropriate.
> The next farm may be 250 miles away, as such it usually has facilities
> for seasonal workers (say 20 people), machinery maintenance, air
> strip, ... etc.
> They are substantial places that are important in a mapping and social
> sense.
> Most still have the name painted on the roof to assist aerial navigation.
>
> Remember that OSM is world wide, you can define things locally .. but
> they won't fit everywhere, hence the OSMwiki fuzziness.
>
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Re: [Talk-GB] Named landuse polygons

2017-01-18 Thread Derick Rethans 
On Tue, 17 Jan 2017, Paul Sladen wrote:

> On Tue, 17 Jan 2017, Dave F wrote:
> > On 17/01/2017 14:32, Derick Rethans wrote:
> > > http://www.openstreetmap.org/way/77260547
> >
> > I think this is inaccurate mapping. The buildings are called 'Queen's 
> > Park Court' The residential area should not include the grassed area or 
> > the nursery.
> 
> Residental areas normally are mapped so that they include the gardens
> belonging to the residences.  If the 'green space' is the 'gardens'
> for the surrounding tower blocks this is perhaps correct?

That is indeed the case.

> A solution might be to ask whether somebody living in Queen's Park
> Court would count the garden in the middle as being part of QPC?
> 
> For the nursery, it's could be less clear cut:  eg. is the nursey
> perhaps on the ground floor with housing above?

It is, sortof. The maps / signs around the estate do include the nursery 
and grassy area. And the address of the nursery also includes "Queen's 
Park Court": 
https://www.leyf.org.uk/find-a-nursery/westminster/katharine-bruce-community-nursery/#testimonials

Funnily, Google Maps gets both the location and the Street Names wrong 
in the area (the estate is on Ilbert Street, and not Droop Street).
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/place/Katharine+Bruce+Community+Nursery/@51.5286397,-0.2150088,18z/data=!4m13!1m7!3m6!1s0x4876101629deff45:0x44043504afa2d948!2sDroop+St,+London+W10!3b1!8m2!3d51.5276284!4d-0.2119691!3m4!1s0x0:0x9668261a517ad8fd!8m2!3d51.5291225!4d-0.2141281?hl=en

There are more estates in the area, but I have not mapped them yet as 
such. For example:

http://www.openstreetmap.org/way/77260547#map=18/51.52966/-0.20654=G


cheers,
Derick

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Re: [Talk-GB] Named landuse polygons

2017-01-18 Thread Derick Rethans 
On Tue, 17 Jan 2017, Dave F wrote:

> 
> On 17/01/2017 14:32, Derick Rethans wrote:
> > 
> > It is what I do too:
> > http://www.openstreetmap.org/way/77260547
> 
> I think this is inaccurate mapping. The buildings are called 'Queen's Park
> Court' The residential area should not include the grassed area or the
> nursery.

It's part of the residential estate, so I disagree with that.

cheers,
Derick

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Re: [Talk-GB] Named landuse polygons

2017-01-18 Thread Ed Loach 
DaveF wrote:

> Please be aware this is the talk-GB forum.
> 
> Use of place=farm in Britain is almost certainly misguided. If anyone
> knows of an appropriate location please post here.
> 
> It's not use of the tag itself that's the problem, it's contributor's
> misinterpretation of it.

When was it redefined? 
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/w/index.php?title=Key:place=373452
place=farm - A distinct identified farm at the node so tagged. In some 
countries the official type of a residential area smaller than a hamlet 
(Germany: Gehöft).

My reading of the proposal for place=isolated_dwelling
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/isolated_dwelling
is that place=isolated_dwelling is like place=farm but for places that aren't 
farms. This suggests the description on the place=farm wiki page is wrong.

Ed


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