Re: [Talk-GB] [Talk-gb-london] New OSM London Meetup - Invite

[Andres Muniz Piniella]

Hi,
new to OSM edit. I live in an estate TW10 7NY. Currently 192 homes and
it is at risk of redevelopment in to make 425 homes. There is also a
community project to document historical features so I want to thank
you for this guidance. It will be helpful to edit entries. 
Regards, 
Andres
On Mon, 2017-08-21 at 19:42 +0100, SK53 wrote:
> My normal practice is to map the estate as a separate landuse area
> and name that. One example I've done fairly recently in this way is
> the Whittington Estate, Highgate. 
> 
> My view is that named estates vary in size & local perception too
> much for a single place=* usage. Most London ones will be perceived
> to be in a particular suburb (even quite large ones) so I don't think
> the suburb tag is likely to be appropriate. They are usually very
> well delineated, both on the ground and in terms of architecture.
> Several distinct estates may also form a coherent neighbourhood. 
> 
> Recent examples I've looked at (largely inspired by John Boughton who
> blogs & tweets as Muncipal Dreams):
> 
> Ossulton Estate (Somertown): name attached to buildings. 
> Old Oak Estate (Acton/Hammersmith): not mapped. There are two early
> 20C estates either side of Du Cane road.
> Progress Estate (Eltham): added as an area.
> New Addington (LB of Croydon, but a place in its own right). John
> Gringrod's new book Outskirts, about the Green Belt, features this
> estate extensively. He grew up there.
> A couple of Islington estates (perhaps Andover) which were anonymised
> in a 1970s book. I don't have the reference to hand.
> Delineating the estates is very useful for a number of reasons
> associated with the study of these areas: history, architecture,
> urban planning, sociology etc. Detailed mapping may be of direct
> assistance for residents associations (the sort of thing Tom has done
> in the past). Of course the ideal would be that mapping involved
> people who live on the estates. Plenty of the modern academic
> literature comes from people who grew up on council estates.
> I would recommend seeing what has been written about these places as
> a way of informing ones mapping. There's often surprisingly detailed
> information: its not unusual for some older people living on these
> estates to have known them all their lives. Or their children return
> frequently: Ian Waites accounts and photos of the Middlefield Estate
> in Gainsborough show what can be done.
> Other writers worth reading for perspectives relevant to mapping
> stuff on OSM include: Lynsey Hanley ("Estates"), Owen Hatherley
> (mainly in articles and all over the place), Chris Matthews
> (Nottingham & other East Midland estates), Lisa Mckenzie (who
> espouses "narrative from within"). These are all in one way or other
> left-wing.
> Regards,
> 
> Jerry
> 
> On 21 August 2017 at 16:49, Tom Chance  wrote:
> > Hi Nicolas,
> > 
> > I think that could be really valuable. One of the first mapping
> > parties I attended was one I helped Harry organise, to map north
> > Peckham when the whole area was a blank space on the map, and in
> > particular to add more detail for roads and footpaths through
> > estates that were usually just shown as gaps in other maps. I also
> > helped map the trees on the Heygate Estate before demolition
> > started, which is great to have as an archive of what was there
> > before the developers reneged on promises and cut some of the best
> > specimens down.
> > 
> > Just a few points/questions...
> > 
> > 1. Presumably the data is coming from people's local knowledge, so
> > there aren't any copyright issues? What's the underlying map people
> > are adding them to - OSM? Google maps? That might create a
> > copyright issue. I know there are maps of London council estates
> > knocking around that are based on Ordnance Survey data.
> > 
> > 2. Someone would then need to go through, one by one, and check
> > whether the estate's name is already in the database before adding
> > the missing names. There are already lots in OSM, so it would be
> > good to avoid adding duplicates.
> > 
> > 3. I'm not sure we've ever settled on the right place= value for
> > estates. It's some years since I was really actively mapping -
> > these days I just maintain my immediate area. But would it be
> > place=neighbourhood, place=locality, place=estate, something else?
> > 
> > 4. Some estates are entered as nodes, others as areas, and some
> > areas are landuse=residential while others are just given the
> > estate name. Again, this might be a good opportunity to get a
> > consistent approach?
> > 
> > Best wishes,
> > Tom
> > 
> > Tom Chance
> > Housing policy and programmes consultant
> > m: 07866 447 075
> > w: http://tomchance.org
> > 
> > On 17 August 2017 at 12:18, Nicolas Fonty 
> > wrote:
> > > Hi Bjoern
> > > 
> > > Not yet in OSM.  For the moment we are just locating their
> > > approximative centre with coordinates + their name.
> > > And that would be interesting to then use this data to export it
> > 

Re: [Talk-GB] [Talk-gb-london] New OSM London Meetup - Invite

[SK53]

My normal practice is to map the estate as a separate landuse area and name
that. One example I've done fairly recently in this way
 is the Whittington Estate,
Highgate.

My view is that named estates vary in size & local perception too much for
a single place=* usage. Most London ones will be perceived to be in a
particular suburb (even quite large ones) so I don't think the suburb tag
is likely to be appropriate. They are usually very well delineated, both on
the ground and in terms of architecture. Several distinct estates may also
form a coherent neighbourhood.

Recent examples I've looked at (largely inspired by John Boughton who blogs
 & tweets as Muncipal Dreams):


   - Ossulton Estate (Somertown): name attached to buildings.
   - Old Oak Estate (Acton/Hammersmith): not mapped. There are two early
   20C estates either side of Du Cane road.
   - Progress Estate (Eltham): added as an area
   .
   - New Addington (LB of Croydon, but a place in its own right). John
   Gringrod's new book Outskirts, about the Green Belt, features this estate
   extensively. He grew up there.
   - A couple of Islington estates (perhaps Andover) which were anonymised
   in a 1970s book. I don't have the reference to hand.

Delineating the estates is very useful for a number of reasons associated
with the study of these areas: history, architecture, urban planning,
sociology etc. Detailed mapping may be of direct assistance for residents
associations (the sort of thing Tom has done in the past). Of course the
ideal would be that mapping involved people who live on the estates. Plenty
of the modern academic literature comes from people who grew up on council
estates.

I would recommend seeing what has been written about these places as a way
of informing ones mapping. There's often surprisingly detailed information:
its not unusual for some older people living on these estates to have known
them all their lives. Or their children return frequently: Ian Waites accounts
and photos

of the Middlefield Estate in Gainsborough show what can be done.

Other writers worth reading for perspectives relevant to mapping stuff on
OSM include: Lynsey Hanley ("Estates"), Owen Hatherley (mainly in articles
and all over the place), Chris Matthews (Nottingham & other East Midland
estates), Lisa Mckenzie (who espouses "narrative from within"). These are
all in one way or other left-wing.

Regards,


Jerry

On 21 August 2017 at 16:49, Tom Chance  wrote:

> Hi Nicolas,
>
> I think that could be really valuable. One of the first mapping parties I
> attended was one I helped Harry organise, to map north Peckham when the
> whole area was a blank space on the map, and in particular to add more
> detail for roads and footpaths through estates that were usually just shown
> as gaps in other maps. I also helped map the trees on the Heygate Estate
> before demolition started, which is great to have as an archive of what was
> there before the developers reneged on promises and cut some of the best
> specimens down.
>
> Just a few points/questions...
>
> 1. Presumably the data is coming from people's local knowledge, so there
> aren't any copyright issues? What's the underlying map people are adding
> them to - OSM? Google maps? That might create a copyright issue. I know
> there are maps of London council estates knocking around that are based on
> Ordnance Survey data.
>
> 2. Someone would then need to go through, one by one, and check whether
> the estate's name is already in the database before adding the missing
> names. There are already lots in OSM, so it would be good to avoid adding
> duplicates.
>
> 3. I'm not sure we've ever settled on the right place= value for estates.
> It's some years since I was really actively mapping - these days I just
> maintain my immediate area. But would it be place=neighbourhood,
> place=locality, place=estate, something else?
>
> 4. Some estates are entered as nodes, others as areas, and some areas are
> landuse=residential while others are just given the estate name. Again,
> this might be a good opportunity to get a consistent approach?
>
> Best wishes,
> Tom
>
>
> *Tom Chance*
>
> *Housing policy and programmes consultant*
>
> *m: 07866 447 075*
> *w: *http://tomchance.org
>
> On 17 August 2017 at 12:18, Nicolas Fonty  wrote:
>
>> Hi Bjoern
>>
>> Not yet in OSM.  For the moment we are just locating their approximative
>> centre with coordinates + their name.
>> And that would be interesting to then use this data to export it to OSM.
>> What do you think ?
>>
>> On 17 August 2017 at 11:34, Bjoern Hassler  wrote:
>>
>>> Hi Nicolas,
>>>
>>> When you say you are mapping estates, do you mapping them into OSM?
>>>
>>> Do you use the task manager?
>>> Bjoern
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 17 Aug 2017 

Re: [Talk-GB] [Talk-gb-london] New OSM London Meetup - Invite

[Tom Chance]

Hi Nicolas,

I think that could be really valuable. One of the first mapping parties I
attended was one I helped Harry organise, to map north Peckham when the
whole area was a blank space on the map, and in particular to add more
detail for roads and footpaths through estates that were usually just shown
as gaps in other maps. I also helped map the trees on the Heygate Estate
before demolition started, which is great to have as an archive of what was
there before the developers reneged on promises and cut some of the best
specimens down.

Just a few points/questions...

1. Presumably the data is coming from people's local knowledge, so there
aren't any copyright issues? What's the underlying map people are adding
them to - OSM? Google maps? That might create a copyright issue. I know
there are maps of London council estates knocking around that are based on
Ordnance Survey data.

2. Someone would then need to go through, one by one, and check whether the
estate's name is already in the database before adding the missing names.
There are already lots in OSM, so it would be good to avoid adding
duplicates.

3. I'm not sure we've ever settled on the right place= value for estates.
It's some years since I was really actively mapping - these days I just
maintain my immediate area. But would it be place=neighbourhood,
place=locality, place=estate, something else?

4. Some estates are entered as nodes, others as areas, and some areas are
landuse=residential while others are just given the estate name. Again,
this might be a good opportunity to get a consistent approach?

Best wishes,
Tom


*Tom Chance*

*Housing policy and programmes consultant*

*m: 07866 447 075*
*w: *http://tomchance.org

On 17 August 2017 at 12:18, Nicolas Fonty  wrote:

> Hi Bjoern
>
> Not yet in OSM.  For the moment we are just locating their approximative
> centre with coordinates + their name.
> And that would be interesting to then use this data to export it to OSM.
> What do you think ?
>
> On 17 August 2017 at 11:34, Bjoern Hassler  wrote:
>
>> Hi Nicolas,
>>
>> When you say you are mapping estates, do you mapping them into OSM?
>>
>> Do you use the task manager?
>> Bjoern
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On 17 Aug 2017 10:06, "Nicolas Fonty"  wrote:
>>
>> Hi !
>> Following up the idea on "Missing map London", I remember that someone
>> mentioned the Housing Estates. I would be interested to work on that issue
>> if others want too.
>> I am participating this week to a workshop at the ICA where we map London
>> estates under regeneration. We have 250 at the moment. There will be an
>> exhibition this week-end if you are interested.
>>
>> Best summer wishes !
>> nicolas
>>
>> On 9 May 2017 at 09:15, Bjoern Hassler  wrote:
>>
>>> Hi Stuart, hi Derek, hi all,
>>>
>>> Sure, a marathon and field mapping would be great. And it can wait until
>>> after the election, for sure!
>>>
>>> Regarding NAPTAN, see here http://bjohas.de/wiki/Map
>>> s/Kings_Cross/Comparison. While this is only kings cross, I've found
>>> the situation the same elsewhere. However, maybe the data has improved over
>>> the last year? Or maybe I got something wrong? Could be worth another look,
>>> but my experience was that it's not all that useful, i.e. many stations
>>> don't have entrances in the NAPTAN data at all, and often they are way off.
>>> I still have the GPX I produced a year ago and would be happy to share it
>>> of course.
>>>
>>> The experience with NAPTAN data partially made me to want to do
>>> something about the station entrances. They are important access features
>>> and I don't know of a good map source for them.
>>>
>>> Let me know what you think!
>>> All the best,
>>> Bjoern
>>>
>>> On Mon, 8 May 2017 at 23:45, Stuart Reynolds <
>>> stu...@travelinesoutheast.org.uk> wrote:
>>>
 Hi All,

 For reference, virtually all of the entrances are contained within the
 London NaPTAN data (https://data.gov.uk/dataset/naptan) which is the
 data that begins with the prefix 4900. The tube entrances all begin
 4909ZZLU followed by a three letter code for the station plus a digit to
 distinguish between different entrances. For example, 4909ZZLUBNK0 would be
 an entrance to Bank, while 4900ZZLUTWH0 would be Tower Hill.

 While these do not give you accessibility information, they are all
 maintained by TfL and should give you accurate positional information.

 Regards
 Stuart

 Sent from my iPad

 On 8 May 2017, at 21:02, Derick Rethans  wrote:

 Hi,

 I think this is a good idea. We have something UK wide, but doing it a
 local way makes a lot of sense (and easier to complete). Happy to do
 this "fix the tube network" thing over a few weekends (After the
 General
 Election that is).

 cheers,
 Derick

 On Thu, 4 May 2017, Bjoern Hassler wrote:

 Dear Grant, dear all,


 thanks for putting on the meeting, and thanks for the sponsored pizza!

Re: [Talk-GB] [Talk-gb-london] New OSM London Meetup - Invite

[Bjoern Hassler]

Hi Nicolas,

When you say you are mapping estates, do you mapping them into OSM?

Do you use the task manager?
Bjoern




On 17 Aug 2017 10:06, "Nicolas Fonty"  wrote:

Hi !
Following up the idea on "Missing map London", I remember that someone
mentioned the Housing Estates. I would be interested to work on that issue
if others want too.
I am participating this week to a workshop at the ICA where we map London
estates under regeneration. We have 250 at the moment. There will be an
exhibition this week-end if you are interested.

Best summer wishes !
nicolas

On 9 May 2017 at 09:15, Bjoern Hassler  wrote:

> Hi Stuart, hi Derek, hi all,
>
> Sure, a marathon and field mapping would be great. And it can wait until
> after the election, for sure!
>
> Regarding NAPTAN, see here http://bjohas.de/wiki/Map
> s/Kings_Cross/Comparison. While this is only kings cross, I've found the
> situation the same elsewhere. However, maybe the data has improved over the
> last year? Or maybe I got something wrong? Could be worth another look, but
> my experience was that it's not all that useful, i.e. many stations don't
> have entrances in the NAPTAN data at all, and often they are way off. I
> still have the GPX I produced a year ago and would be happy to share it of
> course.
>
> The experience with NAPTAN data partially made me to want to do something
> about the station entrances. They are important access features and I don't
> know of a good map source for them.
>
> Let me know what you think!
> All the best,
> Bjoern
>
> On Mon, 8 May 2017 at 23:45, Stuart Reynolds <
> stu...@travelinesoutheast.org.uk> wrote:
>
>> Hi All,
>>
>> For reference, virtually all of the entrances are contained within the
>> London NaPTAN data (https://data.gov.uk/dataset/naptan) which is the
>> data that begins with the prefix 4900. The tube entrances all begin
>> 4909ZZLU followed by a three letter code for the station plus a digit to
>> distinguish between different entrances. For example, 4909ZZLUBNK0 would be
>> an entrance to Bank, while 4900ZZLUTWH0 would be Tower Hill.
>>
>> While these do not give you accessibility information, they are all
>> maintained by TfL and should give you accurate positional information.
>>
>> Regards
>> Stuart
>>
>> Sent from my iPad
>>
>> On 8 May 2017, at 21:02, Derick Rethans  wrote:
>>
>> Hi,
>>
>> I think this is a good idea. We have something UK wide, but doing it a
>> local way makes a lot of sense (and easier to complete). Happy to do
>> this "fix the tube network" thing over a few weekends (After the General
>> Election that is).
>>
>> cheers,
>> Derick
>>
>> On Thu, 4 May 2017, Bjoern Hassler wrote:
>>
>> Dear Grant, dear all,
>>
>>
>> thanks for putting on the meeting, and thanks for the sponsored pizza!
>> Good
>>
>> meeting last night, and god to have met you all.
>>
>>
>> Following up on the "Missing Maps London" idea, I thought we could may do
>>
>> some "map challenges" that look at specific things that need work. It
>> might
>>
>> be a nice community building activity, and provide some continuity between
>>
>> meetings?
>>
>>
>> As an experiment, I've formulated one such challenges here
>>
>> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/London_public_transport_
>> tagging_scheme/Map_Challenges
>>
>> and added images / interactive maps / help for new mappers.
>>
>>
>> See what you think and let me know whether there's interest. Results could
>>
>> be announced at the next meeting?
>>
>>
>> All the best,
>>
>> Bjoern
>>
>>
>>
>> On 30 April 2017 at 17:30, Grant Slater 
>> wrote:
>>
>>
>> Hi All,
>>
>>
>> We trying a new format OpenStreetMap evening meetup in London this
>>
>> Wednesday 3rd May 2017... We'd love for you to come along:
>>
>>
>> https://www.meetup.com/OpenStreetMap-Q-A-Meetup/events/239366249/
>>
>>
>> New to OpenStreetMap and want to learn more or need some help getting
>>
>> started? Already mapping or using OSM and have any Questions or
>>
>> Challenges or want to see what others are up to? This is the event for
>>
>> you.
>>
>>
>> We already have 3 great speakers lined up for the evening:
>>
>>
>> * Andy Allan - OpenCycleMap / Thunderforest
>>
>> * Astrid Thorseth - Missing Maps
>>
>> * Derick Rethans - London Mapper
>>
>>
>> We have a great venue (bias, I work there), there will be pizza and
>>
>> soft drinks provided.
>>
>>
>> I'd love to hear any suggestions on how we could improve the event or
>>
>> what works elsewhere.
>>
>>
>> Kind regards,
>>
>> Grant
>>
>>
>> ___
>>
>> Talk-gb-london mailing list
>>
>> talk-gb-lon...@openstreetmap.org
>>
>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb-london
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> https://derickrethans.nl | https://xdebug.org | https://dram.io
>> Like Xdebug? Consider a donation: https://xdebug.org/donate.php
>> twitter: @derickr and @xdebug
>>
>> ___
>> Talk-GB mailing list
>> Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org
>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb

Re: [Talk-GB] [Talk-gb-london] New OSM London Meetup - Invite

[Lester Caine]

On 09/05/17 08:27, Stuart Reynolds wrote:
> 
> For info, stations are regarded as “national” and so have their own 910
> prefix. So 9100LHONSEA is Leigh-on-sea (OK, it’s not in London but
> that’s the one I know). The alpha code on the end is a match to the rail
> industry TIPLOC codes, which throws up some oddities (such as London
> Victoria and London Bridge having two TIPLOCs each, and Clapham Junction
> having four).

Been a while since I worked with TIPLOC codes ... it stands for 'Timing
point locations' rather than the station itself. So complex stations
like Clapham Junction having several routes through have different
timing points.

Not sure how up to date http://trains.barrycarlyon.co.uk/data/locations/
is and the link to the source is dead (along with other links to Phil
Deave), but then I found
http://nrodwiki.rockshore.net/index.php/AddingJunctionsAndSidingsToOsm.
Not sure that there has been much progress with that.

The open rail data is probably a source that we can use today,
http://wiki.openraildata.com/index.php/File:TIPLOC_Eastings_and_Northings.xlsx.gz
for example.

-- 
Lester Caine - G8HFL
-
Contact - http://lsces.co.uk/wiki/?page=contact
L.S.Caine Electronic Services - http://lsces.co.uk
EnquirySolve - http://enquirysolve.com/
Model Engineers Digital Workshop - http://medw.co.uk
Rainbow Digital Media - http://rainbowdigitalmedia.co.uk

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Re: [Talk-GB] [Talk-gb-london] New OSM London Meetup - Invite

[Gregory]

For UK project ideas see
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/UK_Quarterly_Project

There's benefits to being more local than the UK. You can pick a project
that works better, or UK-wide can be inspired by a local challenge that
went well.
Please consider working insync too, it can be encouraging to be part of the
bigger picture that makes OSM work. I.e. we'll fix our patch, while they
improve their patch.
Discuss on talk-gb when there's a project/challenge that you think will
work further afield.

Also, I'm really glad to see you trying a new format. I do miss being able
to join you all in London.

>From way up North,
Gregory (LivingWithDragons).

On 9 May 2017 8:30 a.m., "Stuart Reynolds" 
wrote:

> Yes.
>
> For info, stations are regarded as “national” and so have their own 910
> prefix. So 9100LHONSEA is Leigh-on-sea (OK, it’s not in London but that’s
> the one I know). The alpha code on the end is a match to the rail industry
> TIPLOC codes, which throws up some oddities (such as London Victoria and
> London Bridge having two TIPLOCs each, and Clapham Junction having four).
>
> Metro stations are also regarded as national, and so have 940 prefixes. In
> the cases I mentioned before, 9400ZZLUBNK is Bank, and 9400ZZLUTWH is Tower
> Hill. In both rail and metro cases, these codes represent the entire
> station.
>
> Then, each rail station or metro station has one or more entrances. These,
> for historical reasons, are always defined locally and have local codes. So
> they have the local prefix (490 for London) instead of the national prefix,
> but use the same identifier for the station. There is then a numbered
> suffix to distinguish between different entrances, although Bank has so
> many that it needs alpha as well.
>
> So:
>
>- 4900ZZLUBNK7 is Bank Station, Entrance 9, on the corner of
>Threadneedle Street (there isn’t necessarily any direct correlation between
>the suffix and the entrance number)
>- 4900ZZLUOXC7 is Oxford Circus, Entrance 7, on Argyll Street
>- etc
>
>
> The final oddity is that there is a hierarchy. So rail stations can
> contain metro stations, but not the other way around. But each different
> entity is expected to have its own entrances. So at Blackfriars, for
> example, the rail station has two entrances, north and south, and the
> nominal “entrance” to the underground is actually set on the gateline
> inside the station building.
>
> So there are some things to be aware of, but positionally the entrances
> are all in the right places (more or less) and you can get a “big bang”
> from the NaPTAN data even if you later on wish to refine the entrances by
> survey.
>
> Regards,
> Stuart Reynolds
> for traveline south east & anglia
>
>
>
> On 9 May 2017, at 07:14, Andrew Hain  wrote:
>
> Does it include stations belonging to Network Rail?
>
> --
> Andrew
> ----------------------
> *From:* Stuart Reynolds 
> *Sent:* 08 May 2017 23:44:56
> *To:* Derick Rethans
> *Cc:* Bjoern Hassler; talk-gb-lon...@openstreetmap.org; osm-gb
> *Subject:* Re: [Talk-GB] [Talk-gb-london] New OSM London Meetup - Invite
>
> Hi All,
>
> For reference, virtually all of the entrances are contained within the
> London NaPTAN data (https://data.gov.uk/dataset/naptan) which is the data
> that begins with the prefix 4900. The tube entrances all begin 4909ZZLU
> followed by a three letter code for the station plus a digit to distinguish
> between different entrances. For example, 4909ZZLUBNK0 would be an entrance
> to Bank, while 4900ZZLUTWH0 would be Tower Hill.
>
> While these do not give you accessibility information, they are all
> maintained by TfL and should give you accurate positional information.
>
> Regards
> Stuart
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
> On 8 May 2017, at 21:02, Derick Rethans  wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
> I think this is a good idea. We have something UK wide, but doing it a
> local way makes a lot of sense (and easier to complete). Happy to do
> this "fix the tube network" thing over a few weekends (After the General
> Election that is).
>
> cheers,
> Derick
>
> On Thu, 4 May 2017, Bjoern Hassler wrote:
>
> Dear Grant, dear all,
>
>
> thanks for putting on the meeting, and thanks for the sponsored pizza! Good
>
> meeting last night, and god to have met you all.
>
>
> Following up on the "Missing Maps London" idea, I thought we could may do
>
> some "map challenges" that look at specific things that need work. It might
>
> be a nice community building activity, and provide some continuity between
>
> meetings?
>
>
> As an experiment, I've formulated one such challenges here
>
> ht

Re: [Talk-GB] [Talk-gb-london] New OSM London Meetup - Invite

[David Woolley]

On 09/05/17 07:14, Andrew Hain wrote:

Does it include stations belonging to Network Rail?


I believe many stations are owned by train operating companies, not 
Network Rail.


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Re: [Talk-GB] [Talk-gb-london] New OSM London Meetup - Invite

[Stuart Reynolds]

Yes.

For info, stations are regarded as “national” and so have their own 910 prefix. 
So 9100LHONSEA is Leigh-on-sea (OK, it’s not in London but that’s the one I 
know). The alpha code on the end is a match to the rail industry TIPLOC codes, 
which throws up some oddities (such as London Victoria and London Bridge having 
two TIPLOCs each, and Clapham Junction having four).

Metro stations are also regarded as national, and so have 940 prefixes. In the 
cases I mentioned before, 9400ZZLUBNK is Bank, and 9400ZZLUTWH is Tower Hill. 
In both rail and metro cases, these codes represent the entire station.

Then, each rail station or metro station has one or more entrances. These, for 
historical reasons, are always defined locally and have local codes. So they 
have the local prefix (490 for London) instead of the national prefix, but use 
the same identifier for the station. There is then a numbered suffix to 
distinguish between different entrances, although Bank has so many that it 
needs alpha as well.

So:

  *   4900ZZLUBNK7 is Bank Station, Entrance 9, on the corner of Threadneedle 
Street (there isn’t necessarily any direct correlation between the suffix and 
the entrance number)
  *   4900ZZLUOXC7 is Oxford Circus, Entrance 7, on Argyll Street
  *   etc

The final oddity is that there is a hierarchy. So rail stations can contain 
metro stations, but not the other way around. But each different entity is 
expected to have its own entrances. So at Blackfriars, for example, the rail 
station has two entrances, north and south, and the nominal “entrance” to the 
underground is actually set on the gateline inside the station building.

So there are some things to be aware of, but positionally the entrances are all 
in the right places (more or less) and you can get a “big bang” from the NaPTAN 
data even if you later on wish to refine the entrances by survey.

Regards,
Stuart Reynolds
for traveline south east & anglia



On 9 May 2017, at 07:14, Andrew Hain 
mailto:andrewhain...@hotmail.co.uk>> wrote:

Does it include stations belonging to Network Rail?

--
Andrew

From: Stuart Reynolds 
mailto:stu...@travelinesoutheast.org.uk>>
Sent: 08 May 2017 23:44:56
To: Derick Rethans
Cc: Bjoern Hassler; 
talk-gb-lon...@openstreetmap.org<mailto:talk-gb-lon...@openstreetmap.org>; 
osm-gb
Subject: Re: [Talk-GB] [Talk-gb-london] New OSM London Meetup - Invite

Hi All,

For reference, virtually all of the entrances are contained within the London 
NaPTAN data (https://data.gov.uk/dataset/naptan) which is the data that begins 
with the prefix 4900. The tube entrances all begin 4909ZZLU followed by a three 
letter code for the station plus a digit to distinguish between different 
entrances. For example, 4909ZZLUBNK0 would be an entrance to Bank, while 
4900ZZLUTWH0 would be Tower Hill.

While these do not give you accessibility information, they are all maintained 
by TfL and should give you accurate positional information.

Regards
Stuart

Sent from my iPad

On 8 May 2017, at 21:02, Derick Rethans 
mailto:o...@derickrethans.nl>> wrote:

Hi,

I think this is a good idea. We have something UK wide, but doing it a
local way makes a lot of sense (and easier to complete). Happy to do
this "fix the tube network" thing over a few weekends (After the General
Election that is).

cheers,
Derick

On Thu, 4 May 2017, Bjoern Hassler wrote:

Dear Grant, dear all,

thanks for putting on the meeting, and thanks for the sponsored pizza! Good
meeting last night, and god to have met you all.

Following up on the "Missing Maps London" idea, I thought we could may do
some "map challenges" that look at specific things that need work. It might
be a nice community building activity, and provide some continuity between
meetings?

As an experiment, I've formulated one such challenges here
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/London_public_transport_tagging_scheme/Map_Challenges
and added images / interactive maps / help for new mappers.

See what you think and let me know whether there's interest. Results could
be announced at the next meeting?

All the best,
Bjoern


On 30 April 2017 at 17:30, Grant Slater 
mailto:openstreet...@firefishy.com>> wrote:

Hi All,

We trying a new format OpenStreetMap evening meetup in London this
Wednesday 3rd May 2017... We'd love for you to come along:

https://www.meetup.com/OpenStreetMap-Q-A-Meetup/events/239366249/

New to OpenStreetMap and want to learn more or need some help getting
started? Already mapping or using OSM and have any Questions or
Challenges or want to see what others are up to? This is the event for
you.

We already have 3 great speakers lined up for the evening:

* Andy Allan - OpenCycleMap / Thunderforest
* Astrid Thorseth - Missing Maps
* Derick Rethans - London Mapper

We have a great venue (bias, I work there), there will be pizza and
soft drinks provided.

I'd love to h

Re: [Talk-GB] [Talk-gb-london] New OSM London Meetup - Invite

[Andrew Hain]

Does it include stations belonging to Network Rail?

--
Andrew

From: Stuart Reynolds 
Sent: 08 May 2017 23:44:56
To: Derick Rethans
Cc: Bjoern Hassler; talk-gb-lon...@openstreetmap.org; osm-gb
Subject: Re: [Talk-GB] [Talk-gb-london] New OSM London Meetup - Invite

Hi All,

For reference, virtually all of the entrances are contained within the London 
NaPTAN data (https://data.gov.uk/dataset/naptan) which is the data that begins 
with the prefix 4900. The tube entrances all begin 4909ZZLU followed by a three 
letter code for the station plus a digit to distinguish between different 
entrances. For example, 4909ZZLUBNK0 would be an entrance to Bank, while 
4900ZZLUTWH0 would be Tower Hill.

While these do not give you accessibility information, they are all maintained 
by TfL and should give you accurate positional information.

Regards
Stuart

Sent from my iPad

On 8 May 2017, at 21:02, Derick Rethans 
mailto:o...@derickrethans.nl>> wrote:

Hi,

I think this is a good idea. We have something UK wide, but doing it a
local way makes a lot of sense (and easier to complete). Happy to do
this "fix the tube network" thing over a few weekends (After the General
Election that is).

cheers,
Derick

On Thu, 4 May 2017, Bjoern Hassler wrote:

Dear Grant, dear all,

thanks for putting on the meeting, and thanks for the sponsored pizza! Good
meeting last night, and god to have met you all.

Following up on the "Missing Maps London" idea, I thought we could may do
some "map challenges" that look at specific things that need work. It might
be a nice community building activity, and provide some continuity between
meetings?

As an experiment, I've formulated one such challenges here
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/London_public_transport_tagging_scheme/Map_Challenges
and added images / interactive maps / help for new mappers.

See what you think and let me know whether there's interest. Results could
be announced at the next meeting?

All the best,
Bjoern


On 30 April 2017 at 17:30, Grant Slater 
mailto:openstreet...@firefishy.com>> wrote:

Hi All,

We trying a new format OpenStreetMap evening meetup in London this
Wednesday 3rd May 2017... We'd love for you to come along:

https://www.meetup.com/OpenStreetMap-Q-A-Meetup/events/239366249/

New to OpenStreetMap and want to learn more or need some help getting
started? Already mapping or using OSM and have any Questions or
Challenges or want to see what others are up to? This is the event for
you.

We already have 3 great speakers lined up for the evening:

* Andy Allan - OpenCycleMap / Thunderforest
* Astrid Thorseth - Missing Maps
* Derick Rethans - London Mapper

We have a great venue (bias, I work there), there will be pizza and
soft drinks provided.

I'd love to hear any suggestions on how we could improve the event or
what works elsewhere.

Kind regards,
Grant

___
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talk-gb-lon...@openstreetmap.org<mailto:talk-gb-lon...@openstreetmap.org>
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb-london



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___
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Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org
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Re: [Talk-GB] [Talk-gb-london] New OSM London Meetup - Invite

[Stuart Reynolds]

Hi All,

For reference, virtually all of the entrances are contained within the London 
NaPTAN data (https://data.gov.uk/dataset/naptan) which is the data that begins 
with the prefix 4900. The tube entrances all begin 4909ZZLU followed by a three 
letter code for the station plus a digit to distinguish between different 
entrances. For example, 4909ZZLUBNK0 would be an entrance to Bank, while 
4900ZZLUTWH0 would be Tower Hill.

While these do not give you accessibility information, they are all maintained 
by TfL and should give you accurate positional information.

Regards
Stuart

Sent from my iPad

On 8 May 2017, at 21:02, Derick Rethans 
mailto:o...@derickrethans.nl>> wrote:

Hi,

I think this is a good idea. We have something UK wide, but doing it a
local way makes a lot of sense (and easier to complete). Happy to do
this "fix the tube network" thing over a few weekends (After the General
Election that is).

cheers,
Derick

On Thu, 4 May 2017, Bjoern Hassler wrote:

Dear Grant, dear all,

thanks for putting on the meeting, and thanks for the sponsored pizza! Good
meeting last night, and god to have met you all.

Following up on the "Missing Maps London" idea, I thought we could may do
some "map challenges" that look at specific things that need work. It might
be a nice community building activity, and provide some continuity between
meetings?

As an experiment, I've formulated one such challenges here
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/London_public_transport_tagging_scheme/Map_Challenges
and added images / interactive maps / help for new mappers.

See what you think and let me know whether there's interest. Results could
be announced at the next meeting?

All the best,
Bjoern


On 30 April 2017 at 17:30, Grant Slater 
mailto:openstreet...@firefishy.com>> wrote:

Hi All,

We trying a new format OpenStreetMap evening meetup in London this
Wednesday 3rd May 2017... We'd love for you to come along:

https://www.meetup.com/OpenStreetMap-Q-A-Meetup/events/239366249/

New to OpenStreetMap and want to learn more or need some help getting
started? Already mapping or using OSM and have any Questions or
Challenges or want to see what others are up to? This is the event for
you.

We already have 3 great speakers lined up for the evening:

* Andy Allan - OpenCycleMap / Thunderforest
* Astrid Thorseth - Missing Maps
* Derick Rethans - London Mapper

We have a great venue (bias, I work there), there will be pizza and
soft drinks provided.

I'd love to hear any suggestions on how we could improve the event or
what works elsewhere.

Kind regards,
Grant

___
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Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb

Re: [Talk-GB] [Talk-gb-london] New OSM London Meetup - Invite

[Derick Rethans]

Hi,

I think this is a good idea. We have something UK wide, but doing it a 
local way makes a lot of sense (and easier to complete). Happy to do 
this "fix the tube network" thing over a few weekends (After the General 
Election that is).

cheers,
Derick

On Thu, 4 May 2017, Bjoern Hassler wrote:

> Dear Grant, dear all,
> 
> thanks for putting on the meeting, and thanks for the sponsored pizza! Good
> meeting last night, and god to have met you all.
> 
> Following up on the "Missing Maps London" idea, I thought we could may do
> some "map challenges" that look at specific things that need work. It might
> be a nice community building activity, and provide some continuity between
> meetings?
> 
> As an experiment, I've formulated one such challenges here
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/London_public_transport_tagging_scheme/Map_Challenges
> and added images / interactive maps / help for new mappers.
> 
> See what you think and let me know whether there's interest. Results could
> be announced at the next meeting?
> 
> All the best,
> Bjoern
> 
> 
> On 30 April 2017 at 17:30, Grant Slater  wrote:
> 
> > Hi All,
> >
> > We trying a new format OpenStreetMap evening meetup in London this
> > Wednesday 3rd May 2017... We'd love for you to come along:
> >
> > https://www.meetup.com/OpenStreetMap-Q-A-Meetup/events/239366249/
> >
> > New to OpenStreetMap and want to learn more or need some help getting
> > started? Already mapping or using OSM and have any Questions or
> > Challenges or want to see what others are up to? This is the event for
> > you.
> >
> > We already have 3 great speakers lined up for the evening:
> >
> > * Andy Allan - OpenCycleMap / Thunderforest
> > * Astrid Thorseth - Missing Maps
> > * Derick Rethans - London Mapper
> >
> > We have a great venue (bias, I work there), there will be pizza and
> > soft drinks provided.
> >
> > I'd love to hear any suggestions on how we could improve the event or
> > what works elsewhere.
> >
> > Kind regards,
> > Grant
> >
> > ___
> > Talk-gb-london mailing list
> > talk-gb-lon...@openstreetmap.org
> > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb-london
> >
> 

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