Re: [Talk-GB] Adding links to Wikidata (and Wikipedia?)
It's also, for simialr reasons, easier for a human editor to add a Wikipedia link, but a script (or even the editing tool itself) could then do a lookup and subistite, or add, the Wikidata ID. It isn't that easy to add Wikidata ID's with a script. Wikipedia articles often describe more than one object. For example the article of Heligoland: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heligoland The article describes the island and the municipality. To model this in Wikidata you need two different objects. For the island: https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q17043877 and municipality: https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q3038 I've tried to describe the issue here: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:wikidata Sorry for my bad english. ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [Talk-GB] Adding links to Wikidata (and Wikipedia?)
It might be useful to give a couple of examples. We would link St Paul's Cathedral to : https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q173882 That, in turn has links to the Wikipedia articles about the cathedral, in ~50 languages, cut How do/would Wikidata links relate to Wikipedia links in OSM objects? i.e. Does this suggest Wikidata links should supercede Wikipedia links or would they be complimentary? Presumably if complimentary (to maintain existing data users' usage of Wikipedia tags) - one could write a test to confirm they are referencing the same thing to check consistency. -- Be Seeing You - Rob. If at first you don't succeed, then skydiving isn't for you. ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [Talk-GB] Adding links to Wikidata (and Wikipedia?)
On 14 June 2014 12:31, Robert Norris rw_nor...@hotmail.com wrote: How do/would Wikidata links relate to Wikipedia links in OSM objects? i.e. Does this suggest Wikidata links should supercede Wikipedia links or would they be complimentary? Strictly speaking, a Wikidata link makes links to Wikipedia redundant, as the Wikidata item itself links to relevant Wikipedia pages. Pragmatically, though, human editors (as opposed to machine parsers) may prefer to see a Wikipedia link, in their own and or the local language(s), as they have text labels in the language concerned. It's also, for simialr reasons, easier for a human editor to add a Wikipedia link, but a script (or even the editing tool itself) could then do a lookup and subistite, or add, the Wikidata ID. Presumably if complimentary (to maintain existing data users' usage of Wikipedia tags) - one could write a test to confirm they are referencing the same thing to check consistency. One could. It's the sort of thing a validator like that in JOSM might check. -- Andy Mabbett @pigsonthewing http://pigsonthewing.org.uk ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [Talk-GB] Adding links to Wikidata (and Wikipedia?)
It might be useful to give a couple of examples. We would link St Paul's Cathedral to : https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q173882 That, in turn has links to the Wikipedia articles about the cathedral, in ~50 languages, It gives is the names of the cathedral in those languages (Katedralo Sankta Paŭlo in Esperanto, or Ardeaglais Naomh Pól in Gaelic not to mention names in languages with non-Western alphabets, like Japanese, Russian and Arabic). It links to an image; and to the Wikimedia Commons category for hundreds more images. It tells us that the building is made of Portland limestone, and in the English Baroque architectural style (and links to Wikidata entities for those terms, which similarly link to Wikipedia articles, and more...). It includes links to entries in a number of other databases and catalogues, ranging from VIAF to the Vatican library, and even MusicBrainz (so we can get a list of recordings made there; and who made them). And much more besides. Even for a small church like St James, Handsworth (Birmingham), we have: https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q16908818 with Wikipedia links in two languages, the location of the church's archives, the architect's name (again linking to a Wikidata entry and thus Wikipedia biography), and the prospect of more data and links being added with time. All of this information is available, as open, linked data, via API and RDF dumps, adding vast richness to our data in OSM, and providing a great service to the re-users of our data. On 8 June 2014 14:44, Andy Mabbett a...@pigsonthewing.org.uk wrote: A year or so ago, I raised a proposal for a bot to add links from OSM entities, to the equivalent entities in Wikidata. Details are at: https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/User:Pigsonthewing/Wikipedia While there was some interest, things haven't moved very far (I'm not a coder, so am reliant on others). To make a more manageable project, we could perhaps run the job just for the UK (or even a subset of that); and perhaps for a subject of topics (starting with churches, say, or bridges, or railway stations, or whatever). Once success is demonstrated, it could then be replicated for more topics; and in other territories. Can anyone assist? How can we increase community buy-in? -- Andy Mabbett @pigsonthewing http://pigsonthewing.org.uk -- Andy Mabbett @pigsonthewing http://pigsonthewing.org.uk ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [Talk-GB] Adding links to Wikidata (and Wikipedia?)
I don't suppose one way or the other, that's why I was asking how you proposed to measure it. Tom How do we measure the success of any tag in OSM? Some thoughts: - Other users start to contribute using the same tag - Our data consumers start making use of the tag - The tag is given greater prominence in the main editors Best, Rob ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
[Talk-GB] Adding links to Wikidata (and Wikipedia?)
A year or so ago, I raised a proposal for a bot to add links from OSM entities, to the equivalent entities in Wikidata. Details are at: https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/User:Pigsonthewing/Wikipedia While there was some interest, things haven't moved very far (I'm not a coder, so am reliant on others). To make a more manageable project, we could perhaps run the job just for the UK (or even a subset of that); and perhaps for a subject of topics (starting with churches, say, or bridges, or railway stations, or whatever). Once success is demonstrated, it could then be replicated for more topics; and in other territories. Can anyone assist? How can we increase community buy-in? -- Andy Mabbett @pigsonthewing http://pigsonthewing.org.uk ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [Talk-GB] Adding links to Wikidata (and Wikipedia?)
Hi, On 06/08/2014 03:44 PM, Andy Mabbett wrote: A year or so ago, I raised a proposal for a bot to add links from OSM entities, to the equivalent entities in Wikidata. This Saturday at SOTM-EU in Karlsruhe there will be a talk with a similar topic, http://sotm-eu.org/en/slots/69 If all goes well there will be a live stream as well as a recording afterwards. No idea if that is a competitor or if both ideas can be merged somehow. Bye Frederik -- Frederik Ramm ## eMail frede...@remote.org ## N49°00'09 E008°23'33 ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [Talk-GB] Adding links to Wikidata (and Wikipedia?)
Hi Andy, I like the idea, and it'd be great if some dabbling happened in advance of wikimania. I'm not promising to get involved (sorry) since not sure I'll have time. But I have no idea how to do a structured search in wikipedia (i.e. search for items within a category, which have co-ordinates). If you know any way, or tutorials etc, then sharing those might help OSMers to think about it? I've added some quick findings about this, to the discussion: https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/User:Pigsonthewing/Wikipedia#How_to_query_Wikipedia Dan 2014-06-08 14:44 GMT+01:00 Andy Mabbett a...@pigsonthewing.org.uk: A year or so ago, I raised a proposal for a bot to add links from OSM entities, to the equivalent entities in Wikidata. Details are at: https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/User:Pigsonthewing/Wikipedia While there was some interest, things haven't moved very far (I'm not a coder, so am reliant on others). To make a more manageable project, we could perhaps run the job just for the UK (or even a subset of that); and perhaps for a subject of topics (starting with churches, say, or bridges, or railway stations, or whatever). Once success is demonstrated, it could then be replicated for more topics; and in other territories. Can anyone assist? How can we increase community buy-in? -- Andy Mabbett @pigsonthewing http://pigsonthewing.org.uk ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [Talk-GB] Adding links to Wikidata (and Wikipedia?)
On 08/06/14 14:44, Andy Mabbett wrote: To make a more manageable project, we could perhaps run the job just for the UK (or even a subset of that); and perhaps for a subject of topics (starting with churches, say, or bridges, or railway stations, or whatever). Once success is demonstrated, it could then be replicated for more topics; and in other territories. What would you consider a demonstration of success exactly? Tom -- Tom Hughes (t...@compton.nu) http://compton.nu/ ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [Talk-GB] Adding links to Wikidata (and Wikipedia?)
What would you consider a demonstration of success exactly? Tom Tom, Measuring the success of a bot can be done in the same way that the success is measured in a statistical model; Type I and Type II errors. So for example, if the test is to attach wikidata tags to churches then: * A type I error would be failing to add the wikidata to the associated church (we can accept large errors in this case as it represents the current no-bot situation) * A type II error would be adding the wrong wikidata to a church. We need to minimise these. I'll suggest a 1-2% error as this matches the general quality of public data. I unfortunately don't have the skills to help with editing, but support initial trials as a good step to working more closely with wikimedia commons. Best, Rob https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Type_I_and_type_II_errors ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [Talk-GB] Adding links to Wikidata (and Wikipedia?)
On 2014-06-08 1:28 PM, Rob Nickerson wrote: What would you consider a demonstration of success exactly? Tom Tom, Measuring the success of a bot can be done in the same way that the success is measured in a statistical model; Type I and Type II errors. So for example, if the test is to attach wikidata tags to churches then: Measured that way, I could code a bot that sets name=foo for all objects with a name tag. Assuming I'm decent at coding, I could have zero Type I and Type II errors, and by those criteria this mechanical edit would be a success. Success should be measured against the reasons for the mechanical edit. Adding wikidata tags isn't the reason, it's what it does. ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [Talk-GB] Adding links to Wikidata (and Wikipedia?)
On 08/06/14 21:28, Rob Nickerson wrote: Measuring the success of a bot can be done in the same way that the success is measured in a statistical model; Type I and Type II errors. So for example, if the test is to attach wikidata tags to churches then: * A type I error would be failing to add the wikidata to the associated church (we can accept large errors in this case as it represents the current no-bot situation) * A type II error would be adding the wrong wikidata to a church. We need to minimise these. I'll suggest a 1-2% error as this matches the general quality of public data. I was taking the question of accuracy as a given. My point was not whether we can accurately add the right tags, but rather whether doing so is actually useful. There's an almost infinite number of things we could add, but if nobody ever uses them, is the time take do so wasted? Tom -- Tom Hughes (t...@compton.nu) http://compton.nu/ ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [Talk-GB] Adding links to Wikidata (and Wikipedia?)
On 8 June 2014 22:49, Tom Hughes t...@compton.nu wrote: I was taking the question of accuracy as a given. My point was not whether we can accurately add the right tags, but rather whether doing so is actually useful. I was taking the question of usefulness as a given. There's an almost infinite number of things we could add, but if nobody ever uses them, is the time take do so wasted? Why do you (apparently) suppose they will not be used? -- Andy Mabbett @pigsonthewing http://pigsonthewing.org.uk ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [Talk-GB] Adding links to Wikidata (and Wikipedia?)
Paul, Tom I interpreted measure of success to mean success of the bot process, rather than usefulness of doing this in the first place. As with Andy I took the usefulness as read. Wikidata is growing quickly but nobody can argue that wikipedia is not an invaluable resource today. Anything we can do to provide better links between OSM objects and Wikimedia Commons (be that via wikipedia or wikidata) is a good thing IMHO. Whether we use a bot to add wikipedia links or wikidata links depends on whether you think wikidata continue to grow. To me wikidata makes a lot of sense (as it is a data store and links to the wikipedia articles in all languages), but I wouldn't complain if more wikipedia tags were added. Rob p.s. name=foo to all objects would be a type 2 fail. In the wikidata example you would want to add the wikidata reference to object foo only if name=foo in OSM (and geographic location is correct). Your catch all would falsely identify all objects in osm as foo and therefore apply the wikidata ref to all objects - a clear fail!! (my explanation of type 2 errors wasn't that good, but the wiki article gives a thorough explanation). On 8 June 2014 22:49, Tom Hughes t...@compton.nu wrote: On 08/06/14 21:28, Rob Nickerson wrote: Measuring the success of a bot can be done in the same way that the success is measured in a statistical model; Type I and Type II errors. So for example, if the test is to attach wikidata tags to churches then: * A type I error would be failing to add the wikidata to the associated church (we can accept large errors in this case as it represents the current no-bot situation) * A type II error would be adding the wrong wikidata to a church. We need to minimise these. I'll suggest a 1-2% error as this matches the general quality of public data. I was taking the question of accuracy as a given. My point was not whether we can accurately add the right tags, but rather whether doing so is actually useful. There's an almost infinite number of things we could add, but if nobody ever uses them, is the time take do so wasted? Tom -- Tom Hughes (t...@compton.nu) http://compton.nu/ ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [Talk-GB] Adding links to Wikidata (and Wikipedia?)
On 08/06/14 23:11, Andy Mabbett wrote: On 8 June 2014 22:49, Tom Hughes t...@compton.nu wrote: There's an almost infinite number of things we could add, but if nobody ever uses them, is the time take do so wasted? Why do you (apparently) suppose they will not be used? I don't suppose one way or the other, that's why I was asking how you proposed to measure it. Tom -- Tom Hughes (t...@compton.nu) http://compton.nu/ ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
