Re: [Talk-GB] Licensability of an employee's work

[David Woolley]

In particular, when submitting data obtained through employment, it has 
to be clear that the company is the one that is agreeing to the 
licensing terms, not the individual.



On 21/10/2019 12:47, David Woolley wrote:
I meant you should use an account that clearly belongs to the company. I 
guess you could have an account for each relevant employee, but that 
will cause problems when an employee changes job, either internally, or 
to another employer.


Definitely do not use the same account to submit personal contributions 
and company ones.



On 21/10/2019 12:37, Edward Bainton wrote:

Thanks, David.

Discussion ongoing on the legal list, but FYI from Frederick Ramm, who 
opines:


 > PS: I would strongly advise against using a "corporate account" that
 > groups the activities of many individuals as it makes communication
 > between the group/company members and other members difficult, and 
good

 > communication is a cornerstone of every successful organised editing
 > activity.

I don't know if that's precisely what you meant, but here for info 
(without judgment either way)


Edward

On Fri, 18 Oct 2019 at 20:08, David Woolley 
mailto:for...@david-woolley.me.uk>> wrote:


    On 18/10/2019 17:43, Edward Bainton wrote:
 > *If an employee edits the map in the course of their employment,
    has the
 > work been adequately licensed to OSM/the big wide Open?*
 >

    I think it is true worldwide that employers have the copyright in 
work
    for hire, and only they can licence the use of their copyright.  
If the

    map is being edited at the employers request, the employer should
    create
    an OSM account for such purposes.

    In the UK, if you day job is producing copyrighted maps, you will
    almost
    certainly find that anything you attempt to do on OSM comes under the
    employer's copyright.  California, in the USA, is a notable
    exception to
    this.


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Re: [Talk-GB] Licensability of an employee's work

[Mateusz Konieczny]

21 Oct 2019, 13:47 by for...@david-woolley.me.uk:

> I meant you should use an account that clearly belongs to the company. I 
> guess you could have an account for each relevant employee, but that will 
> cause problems when an employee changes job, either internally, or to another 
> employer.
>
One can operate multiple accounts. I would say that it is preferable to have 
separate accounts
for bot edits, paid edits and hobby edits.

And single account for a company is a communication nightmare.

>
> Definitely do not use the same account to submit personal contributions and 
> company ones.
>
>
> On 21/10/2019 12:37, Edward Bainton wrote:
>
>> Thanks, David.
>>
>> Discussion ongoing on the legal list, but FYI from Frederick Ramm, who 
>> opines:
>>
>>  > PS: I would strongly advise against using a "corporate account" that
>>  > groups the activities of many individuals as it makes communication
>>  > between the group/company members and other members difficult, and good
>>  > communication is a cornerstone of every successful organised editing
>>  > activity.
>>
>> I don't know if that's precisely what you meant, but here for info (without 
>> judgment either way)
>>
>> Edward
>>
>> On Fri, 18 Oct 2019 at 20:08, David Woolley > > wrote:
>>
>>  On 18/10/2019 17:43, Edward Bainton wrote:
>>  > *If an employee edits the map in the course of their employment,
>>  has the
>>  > work been adequately licensed to OSM/the big wide Open?*
>>  >
>>
>>  I think it is true worldwide that employers have the copyright in work
>>  for hire, and only they can licence the use of their copyright.  If the
>>  map is being edited at the employers request, the employer should
>>  create
>>  an OSM account for such purposes.
>>
>>  In the UK, if you day job is producing copyrighted maps, you will
>>  almost
>>  certainly find that anything you attempt to do on OSM comes under the
>>  employer's copyright.  California, in the USA, is a notable
>>  exception to
>>  this.
>>
>>
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>
>
>
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Re: [Talk-GB] Licensability of an employee's work

[David Woolley]

I meant you should use an account that clearly belongs to the company. 
I guess you could have an account for each relevant employee, but that 
will cause problems when an employee changes job, either internally, or 
to another employer.


Definitely do not use the same account to submit personal contributions 
and company ones.



On 21/10/2019 12:37, Edward Bainton wrote:

Thanks, David.

Discussion ongoing on the legal list, but FYI from Frederick Ramm, who 
opines:


 > PS: I would strongly advise against using a "corporate account" that
 > groups the activities of many individuals as it makes communication
 > between the group/company members and other members difficult, and good
 > communication is a cornerstone of every successful organised editing
 > activity.

I don't know if that's precisely what you meant, but here for info 
(without judgment either way)


Edward

On Fri, 18 Oct 2019 at 20:08, David Woolley > wrote:


On 18/10/2019 17:43, Edward Bainton wrote:
 > *If an employee edits the map in the course of their employment,
has the
 > work been adequately licensed to OSM/the big wide Open?*
 >

I think it is true worldwide that employers have the copyright in work
for hire, and only they can licence the use of their copyright.  If the
map is being edited at the employers request, the employer should
create
an OSM account for such purposes.

In the UK, if you day job is producing copyrighted maps, you will
almost
certainly find that anything you attempt to do on OSM comes under the
employer's copyright.  California, in the USA, is a notable
exception to
this.


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Re: [Talk-GB] Licensability of an employee's work

[Edward Bainton]

Thanks, David.

Discussion ongoing on the legal list, but FYI from Frederick Ramm, who
opines:

> PS: I would strongly advise against using a "corporate account" that
> groups the activities of many individuals as it makes communication
> between the group/company members and other members difficult, and good
> communication is a cornerstone of every successful organised editing
> activity.

I don't know if that's precisely what you meant, but here for info (without
judgment either way)

Edward

On Fri, 18 Oct 2019 at 20:08, David Woolley 
wrote:

> On 18/10/2019 17:43, Edward Bainton wrote:
> > *If an employee edits the map in the course of their employment, has the
> > work been adequately licensed to OSM/the big wide Open?*
> >
>
> I think it is true worldwide that employers have the copyright in work
> for hire, and only they can licence the use of their copyright.  If the
> map is being edited at the employers request, the employer should create
> an OSM account for such purposes.
>
> In the UK, if you day job is producing copyrighted maps, you will almost
> certainly find that anything you attempt to do on OSM comes under the
> employer's copyright.  California, in the USA, is a notable exception to
> this.
>
>
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Re: [Talk-GB] Licensability of an employee's work

[David Woolley]

On 18/10/2019 17:43, Edward Bainton wrote:
*If an employee edits the map in the course of their employment, has the 
work been adequately licensed to OSM/the big wide Open?*




I think it is true worldwide that employers have the copyright in work 
for hire, and only they can licence the use of their copyright.  If the 
map is being edited at the employers request, the employer should create 
an OSM account for such purposes.


In the UK, if you day job is producing copyrighted maps, you will almost 
certainly find that anything you attempt to do on OSM comes under the 
employer's copyright.  California, in the USA, is a notable exception to 
this.



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Re: [Talk-GB] Licensability of an employee's work

[Edward Bainton]

Thanks, I'll repost.

On Fri, 18 Oct 2019 at 18:04, SK53  wrote:

> This really belongs on talk legal rather than talk-gb. The people
> qualified to answer such issues are more likely to be there, and it's
> rather specialised for this list.
>
> Certainly when I worked for a large company which paid a great deal of
> attention to such issues we would not have been able to claim to be agents
> of the company: although certain actions (signing another company's
> confidentiality agreement did have the result of being an agent: we were
> strongly warned against doing this).
>
> Jerry
>
>
>
> On Fri, 18 Oct 2019 at 17:45, Edward Bainton 
> wrote:
>
>> Hi all
>>
>> Quick question arising from a 'lobbying' conversation:
>>
>> *If an employee edits the map in the course of their employment, has the
>> work been adequately licensed to OSM/the big wide Open?*
>>
>> According to Copyright Act 1988,
>> s. 11 (2) Where a literary, dramatic, musical or artistic work [F1
>> ,
>> or a film,] is made by an employee in the course of his employment, his
>> employer is the first owner of any copyright in the work subject to any
>> agreement to the contrary.
>>
>> Can the employee be regarded, as far as OSM is concerned, as an agent of
>> their employer with authority to license the work?
>>
>> Thanks!
>>
>> Edward
>>
>>
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Re: [Talk-GB] Licensability of an employee's work

[SK53]

This really belongs on talk legal rather than talk-gb. The people qualified
to answer such issues are more likely to be there, and it's rather
specialised for this list.

Certainly when I worked for a large company which paid a great deal of
attention to such issues we would not have been able to claim to be agents
of the company: although certain actions (signing another company's
confidentiality agreement did have the result of being an agent: we were
strongly warned against doing this).

Jerry



On Fri, 18 Oct 2019 at 17:45, Edward Bainton  wrote:

> Hi all
>
> Quick question arising from a 'lobbying' conversation:
>
> *If an employee edits the map in the course of their employment, has the
> work been adequately licensed to OSM/the big wide Open?*
>
> According to Copyright Act 1988,
> s. 11 (2) Where a literary, dramatic, musical or artistic work [F1
> ,
> or a film,] is made by an employee in the course of his employment, his
> employer is the first owner of any copyright in the work subject to any
> agreement to the contrary.
>
> Can the employee be regarded, as far as OSM is concerned, as an agent of
> their employer with authority to license the work?
>
> Thanks!
>
> Edward
>
>
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[Talk-GB] Licensability of an employee's work

[Edward Bainton]

Hi all

Quick question arising from a 'lobbying' conversation:

*If an employee edits the map in the course of their employment, has the
work been adequately licensed to OSM/the big wide Open?*

According to Copyright Act 1988,
s. 11 (2) Where a literary, dramatic, musical or artistic work [F1
,
or a film,] is made by an employee in the course of his employment, his
employer is the first owner of any copyright in the work subject to any
agreement to the contrary.

Can the employee be regarded, as far as OSM is concerned, as an agent of
their employer with authority to license the work?

Thanks!

Edward
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