Re: [Talk-GB] Listed status / scheduled monument

[Jez Nicholson]

I believe that the Listed Buildings refs are fairly old. The whole thing
might warrant a revisit, and perhaps a Quarterly Project?

I would be happy for a new-style ref:GB:he (or similar) and an automated
edit. After discussion obviously.

On Sat, 26 Sep 2020, 20:57 Dave Dunford,  wrote:

> The most logical and consistent scheme would seem to me to be - contrary
> to Key:listed_status
>  and
> established consensus:
>
> <*heritage*_status=Scheduled Monument> (which would also work for
> , etc.)
>  (in line with other numeric referencing systems; my
> understanding is that HE don't use any other number systems, though you
> sometimes see their pre-NHLE numbers quoted, which could be tagged
> appropriately)
>
>  feels internally contradictory.
>  is inconsistent with other referencing schemes.
>
> But it's an awfully well-established consensus...
>
> Incidentally, some structures are both Listed Buildings and Scheduled
> Monuments (notably crosses and bridges, in my experience), or you get
> Listed Buildings (defined by HE as a single point) within scheduled
> monuments (defined by HE as an area). Yours is a case in point: the Priory
> building is a Grade I listed building (
> https://historicengland.org.uk/listing/the-list/list-entry/1062210) and
> the Priory Farmhouse is Grade II (
> https://historicengland.org.uk/listing/the-list/list-entry/1360390) and
> both are within the area defined as a scheduled monument.
>
> Third observation - whatever we do, we should t call them "Scheduled
> Monuments" as HE do, rather than the dated "Scheduled Ancient Monuments"
> (quite a lot of them - e.g. Victorian lead mines in my part of the world -
> aren't that ancient).
>
> Dave 
>
> On 26/09/2020 13:43, Edward Bainton wrote:
>
> Hi all
>
> I'd like to map St Leonard's Priory, Stamford, Lincs:
> https://historicengland.org.uk/listing/the-list/list-entry/1007690
>
> This is a 'scheduled monument'.
>
>1. The wiki is a bit inconsistent on *how to tag* this.
>   1. Key:listed_status
>   
>   suggests I should tag it .
>   2. The table at Key:HE_ref
>    would suggest that
>   may not be the right tag, as  is only given for listed
>   buildings - a different legal category.
>   3. I've found plenty of the former in the map, so I'm assuming
>   that's correct and the table at HE_ref needs amplifying
>
>   2. I've also got a puzzle about *how to give the ref. number*.
>   1. Key:listed_status
>    invites
>   me to use .
>   2. Key:heritage
>    invites
>   me to use 
>
>   I've tried using overpass-turbo to get relative frequencies of
>   those two tags. I get the following (for most but not all of England, so
>   ymmv: north of ~Barnard Castle not in my bounding box, but that wasn't a
>   political decision...).
>
>   I can't interpret it fully, but it looks like ref:he may be worth
>   deleting from the wiki as obsolete?
>
>   *HE_ref=**
>   Loaded – nodes: 46397, ways: 5541, relations: 124
>   Displayed – pois: 591, lines: 634, polygons: 4770
>
>   *ref:he=**
>   Loaded – nodes: 2274, ways: 176, relations: 1
>   Displayed – pois: 31, lines: 10, polygons: 166
>
> Thanks for any help.
>
> Edward / eteb3
>
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Re: [Talk-GB] Listed status / scheduled monument

[Dave Dunford]

The most logical and consistent scheme would seem to me to be - contrary 
to Key:listed_status 
 and 
established consensus:


    <*heritage*_status=Scheduled Monument> (which would also work for 
, etc.)
     (in line with other numeric referencing systems; my 
understanding is that HE don't use any other number systems, though you 
sometimes see their pre-NHLE numbers quoted, which could be tagged 
appropriately)


 feels internally contradictory.
 is inconsistent with other referencing schemes.

But it's an awfully well-established consensus...

Incidentally, some structures are both Listed Buildings and Scheduled 
Monuments (notably crosses and bridges, in my experience), or you get 
Listed Buildings (defined by HE as a single point) within scheduled 
monuments (defined by HE as an area). Yours is a case in point: the 
Priory building is a Grade I listed building 
(https://historicengland.org.uk/listing/the-list/list-entry/1062210) and 
the Priory Farmhouse is Grade II 
(https://historicengland.org.uk/listing/the-list/list-entry/1360390) and 
both are within the area defined as a scheduled monument.


Third observation - whatever we do, we should t call them "Scheduled 
Monuments" as HE do, rather than the dated "Scheduled Ancient Monuments" 
(quite a lot of them - e.g. Victorian lead mines in my part of the world 
- aren't that ancient).


Dave

On 26/09/2020 13:43, Edward Bainton wrote:

Hi all

I'd like to map St Leonard's Priory, Stamford, Lincs:
https://historicengland.org.uk/listing/the-list/list-entry/1007690

This is a 'scheduled monument'.

 1. The wiki is a bit inconsistent on *how to tag* this.
 1. Key:listed_status

suggests I should tag it .
 2. The table at Key:HE_ref
 would suggest
that may not be the right tag, as  is only
given for listed buildings - a different legal category.
 3. I've found plenty of the former in the map, so I'm assuming
that's correct and the table at HE_ref needs amplifying

 2. I've also got a puzzle about *how to give the ref. number*.
 1. Key:listed_status
 invites
me to use .
 2. Key:heritage
 invites
me to use 

I've tried using overpass-turbo to get relative frequencies of
those two tags. I get the following (for most but not all of
England, so ymmv: north of ~Barnard Castle not in my bounding
box, but that wasn't a political decision...).

I can't interpret it fully, but it looks like ref:he may be
worth deleting from the wiki as obsolete?

/*HE_ref=**/
Loaded – nodes: 46397, ways: 5541, relations: 124
Displayed – pois: 591, lines: 634, polygons: 4770

/*ref:he=**/
Loaded – nodes: 2274, ways: 176, relations: 1
Displayed – pois: 31, lines: 10, polygons: 166

Thanks for any help.

Edward / eteb3

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[Talk-GB] Listed status / scheduled monument

[Edward Bainton]

Hi all

I'd like to map St Leonard's Priory, Stamford, Lincs:
https://historicengland.org.uk/listing/the-list/list-entry/1007690

This is a 'scheduled monument'.

   1. The wiki is a bit inconsistent on *how to tag* this.
  1. Key:listed_status
  
  suggests I should tag it .
  2. The table at Key:HE_ref
   would suggest that
  may not be the right tag, as  is only given for listed
  buildings - a different legal category.
  3. I've found plenty of the former in the map, so I'm assuming that's
  correct and the table at HE_ref needs amplifying

  2. I've also got a puzzle about *how to give the ref. number*.
  1. Key:listed_status
   invites
  me to use .
  2. Key:heritage
   invites me
  to use 

  I've tried using overpass-turbo to get relative frequencies of those
  two tags. I get the following (for most but not all of England, so ymmv:
  north of ~Barnard Castle not in my bounding box, but that wasn't a
  political decision...).

  I can't interpret it fully, but it looks like ref:he may be worth
  deleting from the wiki as obsolete?

  *HE_ref=**
  Loaded – nodes: 46397, ways: 5541, relations: 124
  Displayed – pois: 591, lines: 634, polygons: 4770

  *ref:he=**
  Loaded – nodes: 2274, ways: 176, relations: 1
  Displayed – pois: 31, lines: 10, polygons: 166

Thanks for any help.

Edward / eteb3
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