Re: [Talk-GB] Totesport
On 21 December 2014 at 12:33, SomeoneElse li...@atownsend.org.uk wrote: I'd be tempted to add OSM notes for these containing a link to the problem node or way since http://www.openstreetmap.org/node/1117527074 hasn't been touched for four years; it's likely that other shops have changed hands too. I don't want to paralyze the notes system by adding too many notes, so for the time being I'm not adding more notes related to shop tagging than are being resolved. In the meanwhile, 8 notes added by me have been resolved, so I added now 8 new notes for the Totesport shops. -- Matthijs ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
[Talk-GB] Totesport
Betfred took over Totesport a few years ago but there are still tags name=Totesport, name=totesport or operator=Totesport in Ashford, Birmingham(2), London (2), Manchester (2), Northampton, Oxford, Rotherham and Wakefield. -- Andrew ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [Talk-GB] Totesport
On 21/12/2014 12:02, Andrew Hain wrote: Betfred took over Totesport a few years ago but there are still tags name=Totesport, name=totesport or operator=Totesport in Ashford, Birmingham(2), London (2), Manchester (2), Northampton, Oxford, Rotherham and Wakefield. I'd be tempted to add OSM notes for these containing a link to the problem node or way since http://www.openstreetmap.org/node/1117527074 hasn't been touched for four years; it's likely that other shops have changed hands too. Cheers, Andy ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [Talk-GB] Totesport
I'll add a note on the UK Retail section for bookies https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/UK_Retail_Chains#Betting_Shops. There are still one or two unharmonised tags for bookmakers: I moved a few amenity=bookmaker to shop=bookmaker the other day. At least one was one I created I'm pretty sure it was because I copied the tags from a pharmacy node which already had relevant address tags and then failed to change amenity to shop. This implies another possible tagging error mode which it's worth checking for. Some other tags which may be relevant to these shops: gambling (for available type of betting; not sure how one includes fixed-odds machines); and minage or min_age (although the former has much more usage, I find the case in favour of the latter is a good one). It's worth noting some other chains which have closed/taken over, as well - Notably there are lots of *Phones 4 U* shops (under a variety of names). All the one's I've physically checked have been closed and have a notice from the receivers. - *Co-operative Pharmacy*: the Co-op has sold these off to Bestway as part of trying to fix its finances after the combined Somerfield/Britannia takeover disasters. See BBC News http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-28361977 story Co-op http://www.thenews.coop/90565/news/business/co-operative-pharmacy-sale-finalised/ website. I imagine these will be re-branded at some point. I suspect that not all shops branded The co-operative pharmacy were in included in the deal, because, for instance Midshires Co-op still have their pharmacies. I'll check this with someone who is likely to know the details. Regards, Jerry On 21 December 2014 at 12:02, Andrew Hain andrewhain...@hotmail.co.uk wrote: Betfred took over Totesport a few years ago but there are still tags name=Totesport, name=totesport or operator=Totesport in Ashford, Birmingham(2), London (2), Manchester (2), Northampton, Oxford, Rotherham and Wakefield. -- Andrew ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [Talk-GB] Totesport
On 21/12/14 13:56, SK53 wrote: There are still one or two unharmonised tags for bookmakers: I moved a few amenity=bookmaker to shop=bookmaker the other day. At least one was one I created I'm pretty sure it was because I copied the tags from a pharmacy node which already had relevant address tags and then failed to change amenity to shop. This implies another possible tagging error mode which it's worth checking for. In my view, they are not really bookmakers. For fixed odds, bookmaking requires no skill and for the horses, I imagine that all the bookmaking is done at head office. ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [Talk-GB] Totesport
On 21/12/2014 14:39, David Woolley wrote: In my view, they are not really bookmakers. For fixed odds, bookmaking requires no skill and for the horses, I imagine that all the bookmaking is done at head office. I'm not sure this detail is really relevant to us. Apply the Duck Test -- you go there to place a bet, so it's a bookmakers. We should be mapping for general use, and that may sometimes mean ignoring technical details of a particular industry if they have no effect on the public at large. J. ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [Talk-GB] Totesport
On Sun, 2014-12-21 at 14:39 +, David Woolley wrote: On 21/12/14 13:56, SK53 wrote: There are still one or two unharmonised tags for bookmakers: I moved a few amenity=bookmaker to shop=bookmaker the other day. At least one was one I created I'm pretty sure it was because I copied the tags from a pharmacy node which already had relevant address tags and then failed to change amenity to shop. This implies another possible tagging error mode which it's worth checking for. In my view, they are not really bookmakers. For fixed odds, bookmaking requires no skill and for the horses, I imagine that all the bookmaking is done at head office. +1 I think that is true of all of the big chains, they are better tagged as shop=betting and leave the tag shop=bookmakers for proper bookmakers where you can go in and speak to a skilled bookmaker. A point I made in the original thread on @tagging, and something I did survey at the time, the word bookmaker does not appear on Ladbrookes, Coral and the like. Phil ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [Talk-GB] Totesport
On 21 Dec 2014 12:34, SomeoneElse li...@atownsend.org.uk wrote: On 21/12/2014 12:02, Andrew Hain wrote: I'd be tempted to add OSM notes for these containing a link to the problem node or way since http://www.openstreetmap.org/node/1117527074 hasn't been touched for four years; it's likely that other shops have changed hands too. Yes, I agree this is a textbook example of a case where adding notes is the best solution. There are relatively few of them, so it won't flood the notes system, and some of them will have closed in the meanwhile or not been taken over in the first time, so there is no way to solve this remotely. Feel free to go ahead. I can address the Birmingham ones when I'm around. -- Matthijs ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [Talk-GB] Totesport
On 21 Dec 2014 13:57, SK53 sk53@gmail.com wrote: Notably there are lots of Phones 4 U shops (under a variety of names). All the one's I've physically checked have been closed and have a notice from the receivers. I spotted a few that have been taken over by Vodafone and EE. I think all of them need to be checked indivdually. -- Matthijs ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [Talk-GB] Totesport
On 21 Dec 2014 14:40, David Woolley for...@david-woolley.me.uk wrote: In my view, they are not really bookmakers. For fixed odds, bookmaking requires no skill and for the horses, I imagine that all the bookmaking is done at head office. We decided on shop=bookmaker some time ago: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/Gambling#Voting I don't feel strongly either way, but I think it's best to stick with the decision taken by the community. Note also that the shop=betting tag is ambiguous: it was used for bookmakers, adult gaming centres and lottery shops (the latter being popular in Spain). They are all quite different, so I guess it's good to get rid of the ambiguity. -- Matthijs ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [Talk-GB] Totesport
Ah, but then you move into the realms that we should move everything to shop=betting :-) I was only thinking about this in the context of anyone wanting to use the gambling https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:gamblingtag. See taginfo for current values https://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/keys/?key=gambling#values. Mind you I'm not sure how much control individual shop managers have over odds in the chain bookies either. Jerry PS. I've entered a bookies once in my life. And that very recently to purloin a pencil whilst out surveying, because I'd mislaid mine. So no expert. On 21 December 2014 at 14:39, David Woolley for...@david-woolley.me.uk wrote: On 21/12/14 13:56, SK53 wrote: There are still one or two unharmonised tags for bookmakers: I moved a few amenity=bookmaker to shop=bookmaker the other day. At least one was one I created I'm pretty sure it was because I copied the tags from a pharmacy node which already had relevant address tags and then failed to change amenity to shop. This implies another possible tagging error mode which it's worth checking for. In my view, they are not really bookmakers. For fixed odds, bookmaking requires no skill and for the horses, I imagine that all the bookmaking is done at head office. ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
