Re: [Talk-GB] beetroot or beet
:) Ok... beets are vegetables.. (I hope). I do like an organised tagging scheme, so I am using produce=vegetable, then vegetable=* This have two effects; a better organisation structure and the possibility to tag a field as produce=vegetable without specifying the vegetable. It also places the issue of beet/beetroot/sugar-beet at a lower level. I think the use of the abbreviation beet should be discouraged at that level. I encourage doing the same for other produce ..e.g. nuts ... grains? The present landuse=orchard has fruits so I'm not doing those as it presently uses its own scheme. On 10-Jan-17 08:30 PM, Andy Robinson wrote: I can see a whole new wiki excursion into the underground world of root crops ;-) Cheers Andy -Original Message- From: Craig Wallace [mailto:craig...@fastmail.fm] Sent: 10 January 2017 01:52 To: talk-gb@openstreetmap.org Subject: Re: [Talk-GB] beetroot or beet On 2017-01-10 01:20, David Groom wrote: Although "beet" could also refer to "sugar beet" Or "fodder beet" (aka mangelwurzel). I think it is rather similar to sugar beet, not sure if you could tell the difference in the field. It seems they are all the same species (Beta vulgaris), but different cultivars. Also Swiss chard is the same species, but using the leaves. ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [Talk-GB] beetroot or beet
On 10/01/2017 01:44, Andy Townsend wrote: On 10/01/17 01:20, David Groom wrote: ... Tag info shows 579 ways tagged with crop = beet, of these 572 are in northern Italy added by 3 users, so its probably quite easy to ask what exactly they meant by "beet" , and retag these existing ways if they actually should be beetroot. In the UK I could hazard a guess as to whether sugarbeet or something else based on the proximity to one of British Sugar's plants such as Newark or Peterborough, but in Northern Italy asking the mapper definitely seems like a good idea. In British (or, at least, English; I'm not familiar with Scottish or Welsh) agricultural practice, "beet" alone is generally short for sugar beet. Beetroot isn't normally abbreviated, not least because doing so would risk confusion with sugar beet. Fodder beet (aka field beet) is typically called mangelwurzel in England. Another caveat in the UK - crops are often rotated (and planted based on price expectation) so what is beet one year is barley the next, and perhaps oil-seed rape after that. Essentially, where this variation happens it'd be difficult to trust any "crop" tag over a year old. I agree; I think labelling annual crops is probably rather pointless in the UK. It's probably worth labelling perennials, such as orchard crops, vineyards, grassland etc, as these typically remain the same over a period of many years (centuries, even, in some cases). But there are very few circumstances where the same annual crop will be grown repeatedly in the same field. And keeping up to date with the changes is too big an ask, really. Mark ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [Talk-GB] beetroot or beet
I'm surprised contributors are spending their time with the ephemeral 'crop' tag in the UK. As pointed out by Andy we have crop rotation systems. Previously to ensure the land wasn't stripped of nutrients, but now primarily based on what is the highest EU CAP subsidy. DaveF On 10/01/2017 01:44, Andy Townsend wrote: On 10/01/17 01:20, David Groom wrote: ... Tag info shows 579 ways tagged with crop = beet, of these 572 are in northern Italy added by 3 users, so its probably quite easy to ask what exactly they meant by "beet" , and retag these existing ways if they actually should be beetroot. In the UK I could hazard a guess as to whether sugarbeet or something else based on the proximity to one of British Sugar's plants such as Newark or Peterborough, but in Northern Italy asking the mapper definitely seems like a good idea. Another caveat in the UK - crops are often rotated (and planted based on price expectation) so what is beet one year is barley the next, and perhaps oil-seed rape after that. Essentially, where this variation happens it'd be difficult to trust any "crop" tag over a year old. Best Regards, Andy ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [Talk-GB] beetroot or beet
I can see a whole new wiki excursion into the underground world of root crops ;-) Cheers Andy -Original Message- From: Craig Wallace [mailto:craig...@fastmail.fm] Sent: 10 January 2017 01:52 To: talk-gb@openstreetmap.org Subject: Re: [Talk-GB] beetroot or beet On 2017-01-10 01:20, David Groom wrote: > Although "beet" could also refer to "sugar beet" Or "fodder beet" (aka mangelwurzel). I think it is rather similar to sugar beet, not sure if you could tell the difference in the field. It seems they are all the same species (Beta vulgaris), but different cultivars. Also Swiss chard is the same species, but using the leaves. ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [Talk-GB] beetroot or beet
On 10-Jan-17 12:44 PM, Andy Townsend wrote: On 10/01/17 01:20, David Groom wrote: ... Tag info shows 579 ways tagged with crop = beet, of these 572 are in northern Italy added by 3 users, so its probably quite easy to ask what exactly they meant by "beet" , and retag these existing ways if they actually should be beetroot. In the UK I could hazard a guess as to whether sugarbeet or something else based on the proximity to one of British Sugar's plants such as Newark or Peterborough, but in Northern Italy asking the mapper definitely seems like a good idea. There are lots of 'beets' ... different kinds of plants that is. http://www.webcitation.org/6Fu9TOBWl?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.plantnames.unimelb.edu.au%2FSorting%2FBeta.html Having viewed that ... I think the value can be left as beet... it maybe viewed as 'generic' for all the different kinds. I am only familiar with beetroot ... but I have changed the wiki description to "Beet field, many different kinds, beetroot and sugarbeet being two. " It was ""Beet field" If necessary to identify a particular beet then a further tag could be added beet=beetroot, sugarbeet, sea_beat etc... Another caveat in the UK - crops are often rotated (and planted based on price expectation) so what is beet one year is barley the next, and perhaps oil-seed rape after that. Essentially, where this variation happens it'd be difficult to trust any "crop" tag over a year old. There is at least one instance of multiple values separated by ; I'd think that would be one way of mapping crop rotation values? Rendering is another problem. ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [Talk-GB] beetroot or beet
On 2017-01-10 01:20, David Groom wrote: Although "beet" could also refer to "sugar beet" Or "fodder beet" (aka mangelwurzel). I think it is rather similar to sugar beet, not sure if you could tell the difference in the field. It seems they are all the same species (Beta vulgaris), but different cultivars. Also Swiss chard is the same species, but using the leaves. ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [Talk-GB] beetroot or beet
On 10/01/17 01:20, David Groom wrote: ... Tag info shows 579 ways tagged with crop = beet, of these 572 are in northern Italy added by 3 users, so its probably quite easy to ask what exactly they meant by "beet" , and retag these existing ways if they actually should be beetroot. In the UK I could hazard a guess as to whether sugarbeet or something else based on the proximity to one of British Sugar's plants such as Newark or Peterborough, but in Northern Italy asking the mapper definitely seems like a good idea. Another caveat in the UK - crops are often rotated (and planted based on price expectation) so what is beet one year is barley the next, and perhaps oil-seed rape after that. Essentially, where this variation happens it'd be difficult to trust any "crop" tag over a year old. Best Regards, Andy ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [Talk-GB] beetroot or beet
Although "beet" could also refer to "sugar beet" I think the wiki pages may be confused The wiki page for crop in Japanese http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/JA:Key:crop does seem to have crop = beet translating as sugar beet Whereas the Polish page I think has crop = beet translating a beetroot There probably needs to be an addition to the English crop page to have crop = beet and make this clear it is sugar beet. Tag info shows 579 ways tagged with crop = beet, of these 572 are in northern Italy added by 3 users, so its probably quite easy to ask what exactly they meant by "beet" , and retag these existing ways if they actually should be beetroot. David -- Original Message -- From: "Warin" <61sundow...@gmail.com> To: talk-gb@openstreetmap.org Sent: 10/01/2017 00:01:24 Subject: [Talk-GB] beetroot or beet Hi again, another UK English question. I use beetroot .. but beet has been used on the wiki. I think beet comes from American English. ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
[Talk-GB] beetroot or beet
Hi again, another UK English question. I use beetroot .. but beet has been used on the wiki. I think beet comes from American English. ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
