Re: [Talk-GB] Route planner using UK OSM data
Shaun McDonald wrote: On 23 Mar 2009, at 19:14, Andrew M. Bishop wrote: a...@gedanken.demon.co.uk (Andrew M. Bishop) writes: I decided that what would be fun to implement is a routing algorithm that can find the best (shortest or quickest) route between any two OSM highway nodes. I know that there are other routing algorithms available but this started as an intellectual exercise so I developed my own. It seemed to work so I added a fancy web front end to it and put it on a server. The router itself (requires JavaScript for the map etc): http://www.gedanken.org.uk/mapping/router/router.html On a topic related to the other ongoing discussion about tagging footway and cycleway it is obviously important for a router that things are tagged consistently. The router is currently mapping highway=path to be identical to highway=footway so that foot=yes is implied. This will cause a problem with the router if the path is also bicycle=designated. When you run the router with bicycle as your mode of transport and disable using footways (which is the default state for bicycles) then it won't take the path. Obviously the tagging is too complex. My definition of a highway=path is a worn line in some grass. If it is something that is maintained for cyclists then it is a highway=cycleway, with an option foot=yes, cycleway=shared or cycleway=segregated. This is the reason why you need as few tags as possible to tag something, rather than having a lot of modifier tags. Shaun __ Firstly, I've now had a play with this - excellent work! Secondly, I have a residence on the Isle of Wight - but there's a ferry - and it doesn't have ferries. Yet. If you can get all 3 car ferries you'll be ahead of Navteq who can't find the Red Funnel from Southampton at all, and will in fact route from the ferry terminal to the far terminal via the rival company... Hopefully it's just another tickbox? Mark ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [Talk-GB] Route planner using UK OSM data
Bob Hawkins bobhawk...@waitrose.com writes: Using the link http://www.gedanken.org.uk/mapping/router/router.html in IE 7, although the details to the left of the map frame are present, I see an empty area - no map. Should I be able to? Yes, the map should appear on the right in a frame with a thicker border than the parameters on the left. It is quite possible that either the JavaScript or CSS support in IE7 is insufficient to display the map. I must admit that I didn't test with anything other than Firefox - I don't have Windows here to try IE7 and that is probably the least standards compliant of popular browsers. This list isn't the right place to discuss details like this; if anybody else has a similar problem they should contact me directly. -- Andrew. -- Andrew M. Bishop a...@gedanken.demon.co.uk ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [Talk-GB] Route planner using UK OSM data
On Wed, Mar 25, 2009 at 07:32:06PM +, Andrew M. Bishop wrote: Peter Childs pchi...@bcs.org writes: I decided that what would be fun to implement is a routing algorithm that can find the best (shortest or quickest) route between any two OSM highway nodes. I know that there are other routing algorithms available but this started as an intellectual exercise so I developed my own. It seemed to work so I added a fancy web front end to it and put it on a server. http://www.gedanken.org.uk/mapping/router/router.html Neat, there seam to be a lot of good routing method appearing for OSM. All with interesting differences over what the commersial sources produce, (eg Google, Multimap, etc) Not usually wrong but different, Does anyone know of any Routing code thats Open Source. Is there any way to encourage the system to use Dual Carriage Way Primary Roads over Single Carriage Way Primary Roads (or in this case Seconday) eg eg A289 vs B2108 is Strood, Kent. Encouraging dual-carriageway rather than single will need some way of detecting one rather than the other. Perhaps lanes=n (n1) and oneway=true would work if enough people tag them like that. Similarly they can be identified by relation[1], again if enough people tag like that. In real life I haven’t seen much of either. :( [1]: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Relations/Proposed/Dual_carriageways Simon -- A complex system that works is invariably found to have evolved from a simple system that works.—John Gall signature.asc Description: Digital signature ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [Talk-GB] Route planner using UK OSM data
Peter Childs pchi...@bcs.org writes: I decided that what would be fun to implement is a routing algorithm that can find the best (shortest or quickest) route between any two OSM highway nodes. I know that there are other routing algorithms available but this started as an intellectual exercise so I developed my own. It seemed to work so I added a fancy web front end to it and put it on a server. http://www.gedanken.org.uk/mapping/router/router.html Neat, there seam to be a lot of good routing method appearing for OSM. All with interesting differences over what the commersial sources produce, (eg Google, Multimap, etc) Not usually wrong but different, Does anyone know of any Routing code thats Open Source. Is there any way to encourage the system to use Dual Carriage Way Primary Roads over Single Carriage Way Primary Roads (or in this case Seconday) eg eg A289 vs B2108 is Strood, Kent. Encouraging dual-carriageway rather than single will need some way of detecting one rather than the other. Perhaps lanes=n (n1) and oneway=true would work if enough people tag them like that. For the problem of preferring primary roads instead of secondary I already have a solution but not an implementation (yet). Instead of a checkbox to allow or disallow a particular type of highway there would be a percentage preference. This means that you could set primary roads to 100% and secondary roads to 50%. When planning the route and there is a choice between the two then the secondary will only be taken if the route is less than 50% of the length of the primary. In general a highway type with a weighting of W% would appear 100/W times as long as it really is. Also people seam to have used Trunk and Primary interchangeable. what is meant to be the difference. For the UK this is simple: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/index.php/Map_Features#Highway -- Andrew. -- Andrew M. Bishop a...@gedanken.demon.co.uk ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [Talk-GB] Route planner using UK OSM data
Peter Miller peter.mil...@itoworld.com writes: Would you consider the GPL licence? Name ideas: Tora- The Open Routing Algorithm? Aora- Andrew's.. What's it written in, maybe that could help with the namePyOra, for example? A name... Who is this project aimed at? You need to answer that one before choosing the name. If is a bunch of clever back-end code that can be used by anyone wanting to put a journey planner together then you need a name that works for techies, otherwise you have the much harder task of building a pubic facing brand which will probably need marketing and other stuff to make it work. Assuming you are producing something for the techie community then it needs to be memorable and relatively unique. Avoid a phrase that just says what is is because there are going to be too many of those! If the project is good and gets used then the name will become well known so the most important thing for a techie project is that it is good. It is also important to build a community that can engage with it, so do provide a way for people to engage with the project - a wiki page for describing the project and for feedback and suggestions seems to work well and of course making it open source. Is also takes a lot of work. To answer the questions posed here: Yes, it would be GPLv2 (or above). [Perhaps GPLv3 would be better because one of the new concepts in that is software as a service - i.e. the use of GPL software through a webpage.] I don't want to start a discussion on that here though. It is written in C for Linux. Currently the web pages use JavaScript and perl scripts; I should probably include them in the release. I never really plan who my software is aimed at. It's useful for me is my normal motivation. I am not planning to go into competition with Google maps by providing a web service. Also I don't think that it is really a TomTom competitor in the embedded domain. The software will be for techies and the existing web page will remain as a demonstration of what it can do. I am not new to releasing software[1] but I haven't crowdsourced a name before. Normally I haven't had a problem with thinking of one; in this case I didn't really bother I just wanted to get it visible to start with. A wiki page? Perhaps just a mailing list to start with. Give me a couple of weeks and the code will be available. For your part make sure that you tag all the highways you edit with routing software in mind. -- Andrew. -- Andrew M. Bishop a...@gedanken.demon.co.uk [1] http://www.gedanken.org.uk/software/ ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [Talk-GB] Route planner using UK OSM data
Nice work :-) Cheers Andy -Original Message- From: talk-gb-boun...@openstreetmap.org [mailto:talk-gb- boun...@openstreetmap.org] On Behalf Of Andrew M. Bishop Sent: 22 March 2009 10:23 PM To: talk-gb@openstreetmap.org Subject: [Talk-GB] Route planner using UK OSM data I have been a contributor to OpenStreetMap for a while now and recently decided to make use of some of the collected data rather than just adding to it. I decided that what would be fun to implement is a routing algorithm that can find the best (shortest or quickest) route between any two OSM highway nodes. I know that there are other routing algorithms available but this started as an intellectual exercise so I developed my own. It seemed to work so I added a fancy web front end to it and put it on a server. Having the complete planet routable was infeasible so I have just included the data for Ireland and Great Britain. You can select from any of the major OSM transport types (foot, bicycle, horse, motorbike, motorcar, goods, hgv, psv). For each of the OSM highway types (motorway, trunk, primary, secondary, tertiary, unclassified, residential, service, track, bridleway, cycleway, footway) you can select whether to use them and if so what speed limit. Restrictions on one-way streets, weight, height, width and length are also options. The router takes into account private/public/permissive restrictions on highways as well as tagged speed limits. What it doesn't do is barriers (gates, bollards) and turn restriction relations (which I have heard about but never seen). The router itself (requires JavaScript for the map etc): http://www.gedanken.org.uk/mapping/router/router.html A description of the algorithm: http://www.gedanken.org.uk/mapping/router/ -- Andrew. -- Andrew M. Bishop a...@gedanken.demon.co.uk ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [Talk-GB] Route planner using UK OSM data
2009/3/23 Andy Robinson (blackadder-lists) ajrli...@googlemail.com: Nice work :-) Cheers Andy -Original Message- From: talk-gb-boun...@openstreetmap.org [mailto:talk-gb- boun...@openstreetmap.org] On Behalf Of Andrew M. Bishop Sent: 22 March 2009 10:23 PM To: talk-gb@openstreetmap.org Subject: [Talk-GB] Route planner using UK OSM data I have been a contributor to OpenStreetMap for a while now and recently decided to make use of some of the collected data rather than just adding to it. I decided that what would be fun to implement is a routing algorithm that can find the best (shortest or quickest) route between any two OSM highway nodes. I know that there are other routing algorithms available but this started as an intellectual exercise so I developed my own. It seemed to work so I added a fancy web front end to it and put it on a server. Having the complete planet routable was infeasible so I have just included the data for Ireland and Great Britain. You can select from any of the major OSM transport types (foot, bicycle, horse, motorbike, motorcar, goods, hgv, psv). For each of the OSM highway types (motorway, trunk, primary, secondary, tertiary, unclassified, residential, service, track, bridleway, cycleway, footway) you can select whether to use them and if so what speed limit. Restrictions on one-way streets, weight, height, width and length are also options. The router takes into account private/public/permissive restrictions on highways as well as tagged speed limits. What it doesn't do is barriers (gates, bollards) and turn restriction relations (which I have heard about but never seen). The router itself (requires JavaScript for the map etc): http://www.gedanken.org.uk/mapping/router/router.html A description of the algorithm: http://www.gedanken.org.uk/mapping/router/ Neat, there seam to be a lot of good routing method appearing for OSM. All with interesting differences over what the commersial sources produce, (eg Google, Multimap, etc) Not usually wrong but different, Does anyone know of any Routing code thats Open Source. Is there any way to encourage the system to use Dual Carriage Way Primary Roads over Single Carriage Way Primary Roads (or in this case Seconday) eg eg A289 vs B2108 is Strood, Kent. Also people seam to have used Trunk and Primary interchangeable. what is meant to be the difference. Peter. (Who is trying to find a retirement plan for his slightly less than legal data) ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [Talk-GB] Route planner using UK OSM data
Tim Waters (chippy) chippy2...@gmail.com writes: I decided that what would be fun to implement is a routing algorithm that can find the best (shortest or quickest) route between any two OSM highway nodes. I know that there are other routing algorithms available but this started as an intellectual exercise so I developed my own. It seemed to work so I added a fancy web front end to it and put it on a server. This is really neat. it's good to see a few excellent routers occuring because of OSM. I think your one is quite powerful for the ability to customise the weighting, nice! Also, any plans to release the source for the router available so we can play too? Yes, if people find it useful then I have no problems with releasing the source code. I need to tidy up a few things and write a README file, but it was always planned that a release would occur if it worked. One thing that it is missing is a good name - I ought to get that sorted out as well before releasing it. -- Andrew. -- Andrew M. Bishop a...@gedanken.demon.co.uk ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [Talk-GB] Route planner using UK OSM data
Andrew, Would you consider the GPL licence? Name ideas: Tora- The Open Routing Algorithm? Aora- Andrew's.. What's it written in, maybe that could help with the namePyOra, for example? Just a thought. Chris. 2009/3/23 Andrew M. Bishop a...@gedanken.demon.co.uk: Tim Waters (chippy) chippy2...@gmail.com writes: I decided that what would be fun to implement is a routing algorithm that can find the best (shortest or quickest) route between any two OSM highway nodes. I know that there are other routing algorithms available but this started as an intellectual exercise so I developed my own. It seemed to work so I added a fancy web front end to it and put it on a server. This is really neat. it's good to see a few excellent routers occuring because of OSM. I think your one is quite powerful for the ability to customise the weighting, nice! Also, any plans to release the source for the router available so we can play too? Yes, if people find it useful then I have no problems with releasing the source code. I need to tidy up a few things and write a README file, but it was always planned that a release would occur if it worked. One thing that it is missing is a good name - I ought to get that sorted out as well before releasing it. -- Andrew. -- Andrew M. Bishop a...@gedanken.demon.co.uk ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb -- Reasons why you may want to try GNU/Linux: http://www.getgnulinux.org/ ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [Talk-GB] Route planner using UK OSM data
On Mon, Mar 23, 2009 at 07:02:17PM +, Andrew M. Bishop wrote: This is really neat. it's good to see a few excellent routers occuring because of OSM. I think your one is quite powerful for the ability to customise the weighting, nice! Also, any plans to release the source for the router available so we can play too? Yes, if people find it useful then I have no problems with releasing the source code. I need to tidy up a few things and write a README file, but it was always planned that a release would occur if it worked. One thing that it is missing is a good name - I ought to get that sorted out as well before releasing it. http://www.codinghorror.com/blog/archives/001022.html Simon -- A complex system that works is invariably found to have evolved from a simple system that works.—John Gall signature.asc Description: Digital signature ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [Talk-GB] Route planner using UK OSM data
On Mon, Mar 23, 2009 at 07:31:46PM +, Chris Andrew wrote: Andrew, Would you consider the GPL licence? Name ideas: Tora- The Open Routing Algorithm? Already used for the Toolkit for Oracle[1]. [1]: http://tora.sourceforge.net/ Simon -- A complex system that works is invariably found to have evolved from a simple system that works.—John Gall signature.asc Description: Digital signature ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [Talk-GB] Route planner using UK OSM data
On 23 Mar 2009, at 19:14, Andrew M. Bishop wrote: a...@gedanken.demon.co.uk (Andrew M. Bishop) writes: I decided that what would be fun to implement is a routing algorithm that can find the best (shortest or quickest) route between any two OSM highway nodes. I know that there are other routing algorithms available but this started as an intellectual exercise so I developed my own. It seemed to work so I added a fancy web front end to it and put it on a server. The router itself (requires JavaScript for the map etc): http://www.gedanken.org.uk/mapping/router/router.html On a topic related to the other ongoing discussion about tagging footway and cycleway it is obviously important for a router that things are tagged consistently. The router is currently mapping highway=path to be identical to highway=footway so that foot=yes is implied. This will cause a problem with the router if the path is also bicycle=designated. When you run the router with bicycle as your mode of transport and disable using footways (which is the default state for bicycles) then it won't take the path. Obviously the tagging is too complex. My definition of a highway=path is a worn line in some grass. If it is something that is maintained for cyclists then it is a highway=cycleway, with an option foot=yes, cycleway=shared or cycleway=segregated. This is the reason why you need as few tags as possible to tag something, rather than having a lot of modifier tags. Shaun ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [Talk-GB] Route planner using UK OSM data
Hi Andrew, This is really neat. it's good to see a few excellent routers occuring because of OSM. I think your one is quite powerful for the ability to customise the weighting, nice! Also, any plans to release the source for the router available so we can play too? Tim 2009/3/22 Andrew M. Bishop a...@gedanken.demon.co.uk: I have been a contributor to OpenStreetMap for a while now and recently decided to make use of some of the collected data rather than just adding to it. I decided that what would be fun to implement is a routing algorithm that can find the best (shortest or quickest) route between any two OSM highway nodes. I know that there are other routing algorithms available but this started as an intellectual exercise so I developed my own. It seemed to work so I added a fancy web front end to it and put it on a server. Having the complete planet routable was infeasible so I have just included the data for Ireland and Great Britain. You can select from any of the major OSM transport types (foot, bicycle, horse, motorbike, motorcar, goods, hgv, psv). For each of the OSM highway types (motorway, trunk, primary, secondary, tertiary, unclassified, residential, service, track, bridleway, cycleway, footway) you can select whether to use them and if so what speed limit. Restrictions on one-way streets, weight, height, width and length are also options. The router takes into account private/public/permissive restrictions on highways as well as tagged speed limits. What it doesn't do is barriers (gates, bollards) and turn restriction relations (which I have heard about but never seen). The router itself (requires JavaScript for the map etc): http://www.gedanken.org.uk/mapping/router/router.html A description of the algorithm: http://www.gedanken.org.uk/mapping/router/ -- Andrew. -- Andrew M. Bishop a...@gedanken.demon.co.uk ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
