Re: [Talk-GB] Yet more musical chairs updates.
This discussion is kinda related to my incessant questioning last week about why 'correct' data is shown by default. A big start would be to explain the two major features of the UI: what the colours mean (actually writing a green area means: blah, blah) and what the squares and circles mean. And with that I mean explaining on the webpage, not here in the mailing list. What you've created is a very powerful and useful tool, and I think these few small tweaks to the UI would make it far more intuitive to use. Oh, and an option to turn off all the 'correct' green squares/circles - surely that's just wasting resources for the average user? Obviously, if you're just aiming to reach programmers and power users, then leave as-is! Thanks Tim --- On Sun, 8/8/10, Robert Scott li...@humanleg.org.uk wrote: From: Robert Scott li...@humanleg.org.uk Subject: Re: [Talk-GB] Yet more musical chairs updates. To: talk-gb@openstreetmap.org Date: Sunday, 8 August, 2010, 23:59 On Sunday 08 August 2010, Dave F. wrote: It redraws all the different colour circles on the map (supposedly searching the database each time) list specific data on the right for the circle that was under the double click - pointless if you just want to zoom in. Oh! Yes - this is intended, and what's more it's vital that it keeps refreshing the view. When showing a non-authoritative view, the results it shows is highly dependent on the view's bounding box. It shows the first 1024 results. Obviously, it will show the first 1024 results in the area you're looking at. As you zoom in, it will adaptively (every two zoomlevels) increase the level of detail. This is necessary to keep showing the user a relevant amount of detail. You can't have people zooming all the way in to milton keynes and it still only show you the one little circle that was visible at the country level. Or do you expect people to have to manually click refresh every time they want more results? How would they discover that? More textual instructions? There's limited space on the panel. The non-authoritative views are only meant as a rough overview before you get zoomed in enough. Yeah, but you're looking at it from the perspective of the person who's programmed it knows it's every nuance. I'm looking at it from the view of a power user. Try looking at it from the point of view of the newbies - they'll want to zoom in to their local town, where they'll understand what they're looking at before deciphering all the options. The titles you use don't offer clarity for them. Musical Chairs, as a prime example, gives no indication of what the program does. No, I didn't consult a focus group before I slapped that name infront of it if that's what you're asking. Instead of a simple Help you've got What? even Algorithm - who, of those that want to *use* your web page need to know how it was programmed? If somebody really does, they can email you. It was written back when this stuff really was just an algorithm and I found a couple of free hours to write up an explanation. It's the only page I had on it - so I included a link to it. Under What? you give half the information required. Instead of explaining the differences in colours you just say It is coloured according to whether it has a similarly named and placed counterpart in OSM and how good the agreement is between them. Not specifically helpful. It's also out of date. That's the problem with writing help etc. It goes out of date as soon as you change things. Every time you add more help/documentation, you increase the burden of keeping it up to date. The trick is to _try_ and make it all as obvious and discoverable as possible. That was my idea with the little hoverable question mark. Why does it start at a zoom level that includes half of Northern Europe? Because when you tell openlayers to show a view including a certain bbox (GB) it picks the highest zoomlevel it can that will show the whole thing. You'll find that the next zoomlevel up will cut off part of GB. This is a half decent utility, to needs some teaks to make it user friendly. You are expecting too much from me. This is something I've hacked together in odd spare hours and half hours I've found now and then. Writing decent help would be great. But I primarily see this as a power user's tool that people who fix a lot of things can use to... er... fix a lot of things. If someone wants to do a whole UI survey on it, that would be lovely. Unfortunately this is how a lot of OSM software spends its life. Looked at JOSM lately? robert. ps- Patches are welcome. ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [Talk-GB] Yet more musical chairs updates.
The alternative way of looking at the comparison Musical Chairs displays is to look at the ITO layer over a standard Mapnik or OSMARender layer. ITO only show the OSL comparisons that do not match OSM, so all of things Musical Chairs shows as green boxes are not shown. If this is what you want, try http://oscompare.raggedred.net/ There's a permalink so you can bookmark your area. You can print an area to take out with you if you are surveying. The slider at the top makes some of the ITO layer a bit easier to read. In the Layer Selector you can switch to OSMARender and also add an OS StreetView layer for comparison. The ITO layer takes a couple of days to update after you have made a change. It makes use of the not:name=* tag to not display OS names you know from a survey are wrong. -- Cheers, Chris user: chillly ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [Talk-GB] Yet more musical chairs updates.
On 08/08/2010 23:59, Robert Scott wrote: Oh! ... This is necessary to keep showing the user a relevant amount of detail. I'm failing to understand why it's necessary. As I've tried to explain, at the lower zoom levels the info is unnecessary as it's unusable. Your circles/rectangles refer to street level data. therefore users need to zoom in to at least level 14 to make any sense of what they're looking at. You can't have people zooming all the way in to milton keynes and it still only show you the one little circle that was visible at the country level. It doesn't need the circles at country level. let the users zoom into the area they know/are interested in before the data is displayed. It would work much quicker - at the moment it's clunky. Or do you expect people to have to manually click refresh every time they want more results? How would they discover that? More textual instructions? There's limited space on the panel. The non-authoritative views are only meant as a rough overview before you get zoomed in enough. Yeah, but you're looking at it from the perspective of the person who's programmed it knows it's every nuance. I'm looking at it from the view of a power user. Please try looking at it from the perspective of someone, even a power user, who's using it for the first time. Try looking at it from the point of view of the newbies - they'll want to zoom in to their local town, where they'll understand what they're looking at before deciphering all the options. The titles you use don't offer clarity for them. Musical Chairs, as a prime example, gives no indication of what the program does. No, I didn't consult a focus group before I slapped that name infront of it if that's what you're asking. Instead of a simple Help you've got What? even Algorithm - who, of those that want to *use* your web page need to know how it was programmed? If somebody really does, they can email you. It was written back when this stuff really was just an algorithm and I found a couple of free hours to write up an explanation. It's the only page I had on it - so I included a link to it. Under What? you give half the information required. Instead of explaining the differences in colours you just say It is coloured according to whether it has a similarly named and placed counterpart in OSM and how good the agreement is between them. Not specifically helpful. It's also out of date. That's the problem with writing help etc. It goes out of date as soon as you change things. Every time you add more help/documentation, you increase the burden of keeping it up to date. The trick is to _try_ and make it all as obvious and discoverable as possible. That was my idea with the little hoverable question mark. Why does it start at a zoom level that includes half of Northern Europe? Because when you tell openlayers to show a view including a certain bbox (GB) it picks the highest zoomlevel it can that will show the whole thing. You'll find that the next zoomlevel up will cut off part of GB. This is a half decent utility, to needs some teaks to make it user friendly. You are expecting too much from me. Actually I think I'm expecting less from you. Keep it simple - don't display data at levels where it's of no use. And, as Tim F., points outs - there's no need to display correct info (green) at all. Sorry to ask again, but what does blue represent? Regards Dave F. ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [Talk-GB] Yet more musical chairs updates.
Dave F. said And, as Tim F., points outs - there's no need to display correct info (green) at all. I disagree and find these useful. It is often the case that part of a road has been named correctly and parts incorrectly. The green boxes are very useful for finding the full extent of a given road name. This information is lost in all other representations of this data which only flag names with no match at all. Also, Robert, an unqualified thank you for your work on this - it's a great tool and is just fine as is. Folks, if all people get is criticism when they invest effort and time in things then they'll not bother next time. Sure, it's not perfect but it's an awful lot more than we'd have if Robert hadn't invested his time and effort in it. As invited by him, spend some time improving it rather than pulling it to pieces. Kevin Sent from my BlackBerry® wireless device ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [Talk-GB] Yet more musical chairs updates.
Dave F. said And, as Tim F., points outs - there's no need to display correct info (green) at all. I disagree and find these useful. It is often the case that part of a road has been named correctly and parts incorrectly. The green boxes are very useful for finding the full extent of a given road name. This information is lost in all other representations of this data which only flag names with no match at all. ...which is why I suggested letting users have the *option* to turn them off as I recognise that some find the information useful (including the developer, as mentioned last week). It just bogs down my little netbook quite a bit, the poor thing. Also, Robert, an unqualified thank you for your work on this - it's a great tool and is just fine as is. Folks, if all people get is criticism when they invest effort and time in things then they'll not bother next time. Sure, it's not perfect but it's an awful lot more than we'd have if Robert hadn't invested his time and effort in it. As invited by him, spend some time improving it rather than pulling it to pieces. I would suggest that it's not criticism - just some feature requests with opinions. At the very worst, it's constructive criticism. As a developer myself, I'd be only too happy if people were pulling it to pieces (we're not, by the way - we're just critiquing the UI) - it shows than people *want* to use it (in the first instance), and want to use it as efficiently as possible . It's up to the developer to decide what they think is important and not important, and I'm sure Robert does not take any offence at the questions/suggestions/critique leveled at him (feel free to correct me). I'll repeat: the reason I am critiquing this is because I recognise that a lot of time and effort has gone into this, and that this is a very valuable tool - I do want to use it, and think that the developer would also like many people to use it. Offering critique may help to improve the tool, encouraging more people to use it. It may not. Offering critique also lets the developer gain valuable feedback, and lets him/her know that people are using the tool. The developer can ignore the feedback as he/she wishes. Tim ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [Talk-GB] Yet more musical chairs updates.
On Monday 09 August 2010, Tim François wrote: ...which is why I suggested letting users have the *option* to turn them off as I recognise that some find the information useful (including the developer, as mentioned last week). It just bogs down my little netbook quite a bit, the poor thing. Aww. I was assuming most modern machines were fine with this because I do most stuff on my PII 400 (dual) (- no, that's not a typo) and, while it's slow loading it works reasonably well, and I thought _nobody_'s going to be using this with anything this slow. I'll have a think and also look at where (if) I can squeeze any more checkboxes/controls into the UI. It's up to the developer to decide what they think is important and not important, and I'm sure Robert does not take any offence at the questions/suggestions/critique leveled at him No not at all, I love people ripping things apart - I just think people think I have more time and mental resources than I do. And I haven't seen any concrete suggestions (that I agree with ;) yet. I'm also loathe to just add textual explanations to everything, as I think that's a bit of a cop-out which will also keep going out of date. For instance, I really want to rip out the whole matches concept and replace it with the more generic idea of states, but that will require a bunch of backend work and make any help that's not built into the UI concept out of date. I should be working. robert. ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [Talk-GB] Yet more musical chairs updates.
On 05/08/2010 23:05, Robert Scott wrote: On Wednesday 04 August 2010, Dave F. wrote: Would it be possible to turn these circles off at lower zoom levels? Personally I like to double click on the map to zoom in at these levels as it centres the city I'm interested in so I can then use the bar to zoom accurately to the specific area I'm interested in. Success. I've monkeypatched OpenLayers so SelectFeature doesn't swallow dblclick events. It's an improvement, but it tries to refresh on every click slowing it down a lot. I still think it would be better to turn it off until at least zoom 13 or even higher. You can't accurately check data until about zoom 16 anyway. cheers Dave F. ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [Talk-GB] Yet more musical chairs updates.
On 08/08/2010 19:48, Robert Scott wrote: On Sunday 08 August 2010, Dave F. wrote: It's an improvement, but it tries to refresh on every click By refresh do you mean it tries to load the selected match details? It redraws all the different colour circles on the map (supposedly searching the database each time) list specific data on the right for the circle that was under the double click - pointless if you just want to zoom in. You can't accurately check data until about zoom 16 anyway. On the contrary. I often look at the recent changes view fully zoomed out (thus seeing all changes from the last couple of days), select an entry I find curious and hit the (new) Zoom to button to check it out. Yeah, but you're looking at it from the perspective of the person who's programmed it knows it's every nuance. Try looking at it from the point of view of the newbies - they'll want to zoom in to their local town, where they'll understand what they're looking at before deciphering all the options. The titles you use don't offer clarity for them. Musical Chairs, as a prime example, gives no indication of what the program does. Instead of a simple Help you've got What? even Algorithm - who, of those that want to *use* your web page need to know how it was programmed? If somebody really does, they can email you. Under What? you give half the information required. Instead of explaining the differences in colours you just say It is coloured according to whether it has a similarly named and placed counterpart in OSM and how good the agreement is between them. Not specifically helpful. What does blue represent? What use is random sample? How recent is recent status? Why does it start at a zoom level that includes half of Northern Europe? This is a half decent utility, to needs some teaks to make it user friendly. Cheers Dave F. ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [Talk-GB] Yet more musical chairs updates.
On Sunday 08 August 2010, Dave F. wrote: It redraws all the different colour circles on the map (supposedly searching the database each time) list specific data on the right for the circle that was under the double click - pointless if you just want to zoom in. Oh! Yes - this is intended, and what's more it's vital that it keeps refreshing the view. When showing a non-authoritative view, the results it shows is highly dependent on the view's bounding box. It shows the first 1024 results. Obviously, it will show the first 1024 results in the area you're looking at. As you zoom in, it will adaptively (every two zoomlevels) increase the level of detail. This is necessary to keep showing the user a relevant amount of detail. You can't have people zooming all the way in to milton keynes and it still only show you the one little circle that was visible at the country level. Or do you expect people to have to manually click refresh every time they want more results? How would they discover that? More textual instructions? There's limited space on the panel. The non-authoritative views are only meant as a rough overview before you get zoomed in enough. Yeah, but you're looking at it from the perspective of the person who's programmed it knows it's every nuance. I'm looking at it from the view of a power user. Try looking at it from the point of view of the newbies - they'll want to zoom in to their local town, where they'll understand what they're looking at before deciphering all the options. The titles you use don't offer clarity for them. Musical Chairs, as a prime example, gives no indication of what the program does. No, I didn't consult a focus group before I slapped that name infront of it if that's what you're asking. Instead of a simple Help you've got What? even Algorithm - who, of those that want to *use* your web page need to know how it was programmed? If somebody really does, they can email you. It was written back when this stuff really was just an algorithm and I found a couple of free hours to write up an explanation. It's the only page I had on it - so I included a link to it. Under What? you give half the information required. Instead of explaining the differences in colours you just say It is coloured according to whether it has a similarly named and placed counterpart in OSM and how good the agreement is between them. Not specifically helpful. It's also out of date. That's the problem with writing help etc. It goes out of date as soon as you change things. Every time you add more help/documentation, you increase the burden of keeping it up to date. The trick is to _try_ and make it all as obvious and discoverable as possible. That was my idea with the little hoverable question mark. Why does it start at a zoom level that includes half of Northern Europe? Because when you tell openlayers to show a view including a certain bbox (GB) it picks the highest zoomlevel it can that will show the whole thing. You'll find that the next zoomlevel up will cut off part of GB. This is a half decent utility, to needs some teaks to make it user friendly. You are expecting too much from me. This is something I've hacked together in odd spare hours and half hours I've found now and then. Writing decent help would be great. But I primarily see this as a power user's tool that people who fix a lot of things can use to... er... fix a lot of things. If someone wants to do a whole UI survey on it, that would be lovely. Unfortunately this is how a lot of OSM software spends its life. Looked at JOSM lately? robert. ps- Patches are welcome. ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [Talk-GB] Yet more musical chairs updates.
On Wednesday 04 August 2010, Dave F. wrote: Would it be possible to turn these circles off at lower zoom levels? Personally I like to double click on the map to zoom in at these levels as it centres the city I'm interested in so I can then use the bar to zoom accurately to the specific area I'm interested in. Success. I've monkeypatched OpenLayers so SelectFeature doesn't swallow dblclick events. There's also now a Show no/poor matches non-authoritative view mode. robert. ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [Talk-GB] Yet more musical chairs updates.
On 30 July 2010 13:29, Robert Scott li...@humanleg.org.uk wrote: Hello everybody, I'm sure you all feel you've heard enough about my recent activities by now I'm just catching up after a year or so away from OSM, so no, I'm not fed up thanks! That's a really useful resource thank you. There are quite a few roads missing around where I live, so I'll be concentrating on simply getting roads on the map in the next few weeks before doing much more fancy. Cheers, Jim ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [Talk-GB] Yet more musical chairs updates.
Cheers Robert A couple of Q's: What's the different between the circles rectangles? Is it just to do with the zoom factor? Would it be possible to turn these circles off at lower zoom levels? Personally I like to double click on the map to zoom in at these levels as it centres the city I'm interested in so I can then use the bar to zoom accurately to the specific area I'm interested in. At the moment If I do that it just brings up details of errors for where I clicked. Are there any differences between what you've done ITO? Cheers Dave F. ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [Talk-GB] Yet more musical chairs updates.
On Wednesday 04 August 2010, Dave F. wrote: What's the different between the circles rectangles? Is it just to do with the zoom factor? When there are more than n (currently 1024) results in an area, it shows only the first n results. You can choose which n these are (random sample, most recently updated...). This is a non-authoritative view. Once the view is zoomed in far enough to show all results in an area, it shows an authoritative view. Non authoritative views are shown with circles, authoritative views show the actual OS Locator bounding boxes. This is partly to do with making a clear and obvious distinction between views where you're seeing everything and views where there are some thing you're not seeing . It's also to do with the way the two different types of geometry behave at different scales. If I showed the boxes at low zoomlevels, they would just end up being tiny subpixel dots. Would it be possible to turn these circles off at lower zoom levels? Personally I like to double click on the map to zoom in at these levels as it centres the city I'm interested in so I can then use the bar to zoom accurately to the specific area I'm interested in. Yeah that annoys me too. I tend to do the shift-drag-box more though. Previously you weren't able to select non-authoritative points at all, but last night I changed it so that you can make selections that appear to be persistent across the authoritative-non-authoritative boundary, as I found it stupid that you couldn't see details of a match without first zooming right the way in and possibly losing track of which result you were interested in. It would be nice if I could maybe hijack the doubleclick event and pass it to the map. I'll have to think about this. Are there any differences between what you've done ITO? My algorithm does fuzzy matching to find streets with smallish errors and AFAIK theirs doesn't. I keep a history of match state change events, which will probably be useful for some fun features in the future. Theirs supports not:name=, I haven't got round to that yet (I'm slightly more interested in being able to tag the actual OSL entry as being incorrect). They've got tiles which are very good for use in-editor. Mine, you've still got to pan around in a separate window. robert. (the first thing I've got to do though is fix a really stupid replication bug of mine) ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [Talk-GB] Yet more musical chairs updates.
Robert, Am I missing something here? Go to: http://ris.dev.openstreetmap.org/oslmusicalchairs/map?zoom=16lat=51.46829lon=-2.60556layers=B0TF A lot of these have the same name in OSL and OSM, yet are flagged with a green circle. What does this mean? (Actually, I've just gone back to it and the small circles are turning into rectangles) Is there a page with a legend that I can refer to? Also, how often is this data updated these days? Thanks Tim On Wed, Aug 4, 2010 at 2:48 PM, Robert Scott li...@humanleg.org.uk wrote: On Wednesday 04 August 2010, Dave F. wrote: What's the different between the circles rectangles? Is it just to do with the zoom factor? When there are more than n (currently 1024) results in an area, it shows only the first n results. You can choose which n these are (random sample, most recently updated...). This is a non-authoritative view. Once the view is zoomed in far enough to show all results in an area, it shows an authoritative view. Non authoritative views are shown with circles, authoritative views show the actual OS Locator bounding boxes. This is partly to do with making a clear and obvious distinction between views where you're seeing everything and views where there are some thing you're not seeing . It's also to do with the way the two different types of geometry behave at different scales. If I showed the boxes at low zoomlevels, they would just end up being tiny subpixel dots. Would it be possible to turn these circles off at lower zoom levels? Personally I like to double click on the map to zoom in at these levels as it centres the city I'm interested in so I can then use the bar to zoom accurately to the specific area I'm interested in. Yeah that annoys me too. I tend to do the shift-drag-box more though. Previously you weren't able to select non-authoritative points at all, but last night I changed it so that you can make selections that appear to be persistent across the authoritative-non-authoritative boundary, as I found it stupid that you couldn't see details of a match without first zooming right the way in and possibly losing track of which result you were interested in. It would be nice if I could maybe hijack the doubleclick event and pass it to the map. I'll have to think about this. Are there any differences between what you've done ITO? My algorithm does fuzzy matching to find streets with smallish errors and AFAIK theirs doesn't. I keep a history of match state change events, which will probably be useful for some fun features in the future. Theirs supports not:name=, I haven't got round to that yet (I'm slightly more interested in being able to tag the actual OSL entry as being incorrect). They've got tiles which are very good for use in-editor. Mine, you've still got to pan around in a separate window. robert. (the first thing I've got to do though is fix a really stupid replication bug of mine) ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [Talk-GB] Yet more musical chairs updates.
Ah, perhaps I should have been more specific - I managed to deduce that bit on my own, so hopefully no-one thinks I'm that dumb!! :) I was more wondering about the circles vs rectangles thing, but after looking closer I think these circles were just artifacts of the lower zoom levels which hadn't yet had time to disappear. My question still stands about the fact that there are LOADS of roads with the same name in OSL and OSM but are being flagged by a bright green rectangle. Why is this? Or is this part of the bug indicated in previous email? Thanks Tim On Wed, Aug 4, 2010 at 3:34 PM, Ed Loach e...@loach.me.uk wrote: The What? dropdown in the top right suggests the rectangles are coloured according to how close the match is, which you can see by clicking top right triangle in corner of rectangle (at least that works in Opera). Light green seems to be near perfect match, red is no match, then there are shades of closeness of match in between. Ed *From:* talk-gb-boun...@openstreetmap.org [mailto: talk-gb-boun...@openstreetmap.org] *On Behalf Of *Tim Francois *Sent:* 04 August 2010 15:25 *To:* li...@humanleg.org.uk *Cc:* talk-gb@openstreetmap.org *Subject:* Re: [Talk-GB] Yet more musical chairs updates. Robert, Am I missing something here? Go to: http://ris.dev.openstreetmap.org/oslmusicalchairs/map?zoom=16lat=51.46829lon=-2.60556layers=B0TF A lot of these have the same name in OSL and OSM, yet are flagged with a green circle. What does this mean? (Actually, I've just gone back to it and the small circles are turning into rectangles) Is there a page with a legend that I can refer to? Also, how often is this data updated these days? Thanks Tim On Wed, Aug 4, 2010 at 2:48 PM, Robert Scott li...@humanleg.org.uk wrote: On Wednesday 04 August 2010, Dave F. wrote: What's the different between the circles rectangles? Is it just to do with the zoom factor? When there are more than n (currently 1024) results in an area, it shows only the first n results. You can choose which n these are (random sample, most recently updated...). This is a non-authoritative view. Once the view is zoomed in far enough to show all results in an area, it shows an authoritative view. Non authoritative views are shown with circles, authoritative views show the actual OS Locator bounding boxes. This is partly to do with making a clear and obvious distinction between views where you're seeing everything and views where there are some thing you're not seeing . It's also to do with the way the two different types of geometry behave at different scales. If I showed the boxes at low zoomlevels, they would just end up being tiny subpixel dots. Would it be possible to turn these circles off at lower zoom levels? Personally I like to double click on the map to zoom in at these levels as it centres the city I'm interested in so I can then use the bar to zoom accurately to the specific area I'm interested in. Yeah that annoys me too. I tend to do the shift-drag-box more though. Previously you weren't able to select non-authoritative points at all, but last night I changed it so that you can make selections that appear to be persistent across the authoritative-non-authoritative boundary, as I found it stupid that you couldn't see details of a match without first zooming right the way in and possibly losing track of which result you were interested in. It would be nice if I could maybe hijack the doubleclick event and pass it to the map. I'll have to think about this. Are there any differences between what you've done ITO? My algorithm does fuzzy matching to find streets with smallish errors and AFAIK theirs doesn't. I keep a history of match state change events, which will probably be useful for some fun features in the future. Theirs supports not:name=, I haven't got round to that yet (I'm slightly more interested in being able to tag the actual OSL entry as being incorrect). They've got tiles which are very good for use in-editor. Mine, you've still got to pan around in a separate window. robert. (the first thing I've got to do though is fix a really stupid replication bug of mine) ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [Talk-GB] Yet more musical chairs updates.
On Wednesday 04 August 2010, Tim Francois wrote: My question still stands about the fact that there are LOADS of roads with the same name in OSL and OSM but are being flagged by a bright green rectangle. Why is this? In many cultures, green is considered a sign of good, OK, or everything's fine. You can see this usage for instance in our traffic lights. Hence a green OSL entry - one that's fine. Facetiousness aside, I am going to add a non-authoritative mode which shows bad matches first, but I still think it's important to show _all_ OSL entries in authoritative mode. I have tried to tone down the near perfect matches to be less bright green but they can still appear quite bright when there are many overlapping. Also, how often is this data updated these days? Nightly with the odd extra update in the daytime if I want to try something out. robert. ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [Talk-GB] Yet more musical chairs updates.
Hi everyone, I'm new to all this, only joining the group yesterday, so I think I'm positing to the discussion correctly. If not, let me know. That aside, is the aim to investigate all red boxes and typically add the road? Also, with regards to the green boxes that show near matches, any chance you could say why it's a near match i.e. is it the spelling of the road name, classification, or possibly the location of the road. A_Snail -Original Message- From: talk-gb-boun...@openstreetmap.org [mailto:talk-gb-boun...@openstreetmap.org] On Behalf Of Robert Scott Sent: 04 August 2010 16:17 To: talk-gb@openstreetmap.org Subject: Re: [Talk-GB] Yet more musical chairs updates. On Wednesday 04 August 2010, Tim Francois wrote: My question still stands about the fact that there are LOADS of roads with the same name in OSL and OSM but are being flagged by a bright green rectangle. Why is this? In many cultures, green is considered a sign of good, OK, or everything's fine. You can see this usage for instance in our traffic lights. Hence a green OSL entry - one that's fine. Facetiousness aside, I am going to add a non-authoritative mode which shows bad matches first, but I still think it's important to show _all_ OSL entries in authoritative mode. I have tried to tone down the near perfect matches to be less bright green but they can still appear quite bright when there are many overlapping. Also, how often is this data updated these days? Nightly with the odd extra update in the daytime if I want to try something out. robert. ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [Talk-GB] Yet more musical chairs updates.
Also, with regards to the green boxes that show near matches, any chance you could say why it's a near match i.e. is it the spelling of the road name, classification, or possibly the location of the road. If you click on the triangle top right it shows both the OSL and OSM names somewhere in the panel on the right hand side which you can then compare. With regards location you can hopefully tell that from the OSM map layer and the OSL based rectangle, and whether they align or not (assuming I've understood these things correctly). Near here the red boxes are where OSL has a road ref but not the name, and in one case seems to be the size of the mini-roundabout it is over. Ed ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [Talk-GB] Yet more musical chairs updates.
Welcome to the list, and a special welcome from me as I notice you're doing quite a lot of work in Bristol - I recently wrote about the number of 'missing' roads in Bristol in OSM - have a look through the archives, and then see http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/User:Tm#Bristol_-_Missing_Roads. PM or email me if you have any questions about this or OSM in general For more information about all of the clever stuff behind the musical chairs script, go to: http://humanleg.org.uk/code/oslmusicalchairs/ Tim On Wed, Aug 4, 2010 at 4:25 PM, a_snail a_sn...@hotmail.com wrote: Hi everyone, I'm new to all this, only joining the group yesterday, so I think I'm positing to the discussion correctly. If not, let me know. That aside, is the aim to investigate all red boxes and typically add the road? Also, with regards to the green boxes that show near matches, any chance you could say why it's a near match i.e. is it the spelling of the road name, classification, or possibly the location of the road. A_Snail -Original Message- From: talk-gb-boun...@openstreetmap.org [mailto:talk-gb-boun...@openstreetmap.org] On Behalf Of Robert Scott Sent: 04 August 2010 16:17 To: talk-gb@openstreetmap.org Subject: Re: [Talk-GB] Yet more musical chairs updates. On Wednesday 04 August 2010, Tim Francois wrote: My question still stands about the fact that there are LOADS of roads with the same name in OSL and OSM but are being flagged by a bright green rectangle. Why is this? In many cultures, green is considered a sign of good, OK, or everything's fine. You can see this usage for instance in our traffic lights. Hence a green OSL entry - one that's fine. Facetiousness aside, I am going to add a non-authoritative mode which shows bad matches first, but I still think it's important to show _all_ OSL entries in authoritative mode. I have tried to tone down the near perfect matches to be less bright green but they can still appear quite bright when there are many overlapping. Also, how often is this data updated these days? Nightly with the odd extra update in the daytime if I want to try something out. robert. ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [Talk-GB] Yet more musical chairs updates.
On Wednesday 04 August 2010, you wrote: Out of curiosity, why is it important to show _all_ OSL entries? Is there a way to not show the ones where OSL==OSM? Well, it's certainly important for me to be able to see potential matching problems. An OSL street's match is influenced by its neighbours, so even if an OSL entry is matched perfectly, it can still have an effect on other entries. The reason I was confused was that it was showing as a bright green rectangle (which I correctly assumed meant that OSL matched OSM, as you've just confirmed), but when clicking on the rectangle it says Near perfect match, even though the road names are identical (save for CAPS). Are we going for the 'nothing is perfect' approach here?! :) Capitalization, apostrophes and also street/st , road/rd , saint/st type situations are not distinguished between. Anyways, good stuff - just integrate into JOSM or Potlatch and we're done I kid, I kid!! Muh. I would love it, but there's no standard way of doing this sort of thing. I suppose someone could write a PL2 data layer :) robert. ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [Talk-GB] Yet more musical chairs updates.
On Wednesday 04 August 2010, a_snail wrote: Also, with regards to the green boxes that show near matches, any chance you could say why it's a near match i.e. is it the spelling of the road name, classification, or possibly the location of the road. The nearness metric of the match is purely (fuzzy-) name based. Streets that are too far away are just not considered matches at all. Classification isn't taken into account as it's not something thats given in OS Locator. robert. ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [Talk-GB] Yet more musical chairs updates.
Is just me or does musical chairs not work with the Chrome Browser. I cannot select the boxes. I can interestingly select the circles? Ian . ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [Talk-GB] Yet more musical chairs updates.
I have the same problem using Google Chrome on Ubuntu Linux. Works ok with Firefox though. Graham. On 4 August 2010 20:08, Ian Caldwell ian1caldwell+...@googlemail.comian1caldwell%2b...@googlemail.com wrote: Is just me or does musical chairs not work with the Chrome Browser. I cannot select the boxes. I can interestingly select the circles? Ian . ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb -- Dr. Graham Jones Hartlepool, UK email: grahamjones...@gmail.com ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [Talk-GB] Yet more musical chairs updates.
On Wednesday 04 August 2010, Graham Jones wrote: I have the same problem using Google Chrome on Ubuntu Linux. Works ok with Firefox though. Graham. On 4 August 2010 20:08, Ian Caldwell ian1caldwell+...@googlemail.comian1caldwell%2b...@googlemail.com wrote: Is just me or does musical chairs not work with the Chrome Browser. I cannot select the boxes. I can interestingly select the circles? Ian Yes! I could swear it _used_ to work on chrome (or I'm going crazy) - but recently I haven't been able to get it to work. Problem is, chrome does this silent background upgrading thing, so I have no idea whether it's a regression in my code or a regression in chrome that got pushed out to all users. I'm leaning towards the latter as I've rolled back to some previous revisions which I seem to remember working on chrome and they still don't work on a current system. gg Google. I've investigated it a fair amount but to no avail (the dev tools are unfortunately not as powerful as firebug). Any insights welcome. It works on all other browsers I have access to though. robert. ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
