Re: [Talk-gb-westmidlands] Access to High Street, Birmingham for blue badge holders.
I'd use: motor_vehicle=delivery (this seems to be the right tag for the UK's "for loading" rule psv=yes (see note below) disabled=yes (this seems to be the right tag for blue badge) You need a conditional access tag for the time restriction: motor_vehicle:conditional=permit @ (19:00-06:00); delivery @ (19:00-06:00) This overrides the motor_vehicle=delivery tag when the condition is met (between 7pm and 6am) but as it's not just authorised vehicles allowed, I've also restated that delivery is allowed at this time. I've used "permit" as the closest tag I could find for "authorised vehicles". Personally I might be tempted to skip this conditional tag entirely as it doesn't answer the question "who is authorised" and any authorised vehicles hopefully know they are without having to check OpenStreetMap first! Maybe add emergency=yes as well just to indicate that the road is physically large enough to cater for these vehicles. I'm assuming they can ignore all legal restrictions. Note on PSV: The psv=yes tag is equivalent to the combination of bus=yes, taxi=yes and a couple others related to public transport (minibus, on demand / on call public services) Best regards Rob On Thu, 31 Mar 2022, 22:51 Andy Mabbett, wrote: > On Thu, 31 Mar 2022 at 20:55, Rob Nickerson > wrote: > > > If you can explain the restriction again, I'll see what tags I can > suggest. I can try to > > capture any time based rules too. > > Thank you. > > The sign reads: > > * "Pedestrian and cycle zone > * [Image: no motor vehicles] > * "Except [Image: Blue Badge] buses, taxis and for loading at any time" > * "and authorised vehicles 7pm-6am". > > It can be seen here: > > https://goo.gl/maps/GTHTDxVeyugNZeKp7 > > -- > Andy Mabbett > @pigsonthewing > http://pigsonthewing.org.uk > -- > Andy Mabbett > @pigsonthewing > http://pigsonthewing.org.uk > ___ > Talk-gb-westmidlands mailing list > Talk-gb-westmidlands@openstreetmap.org > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb-westmidlands > ___ Talk-gb-westmidlands mailing list Talk-gb-westmidlands@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb-westmidlands
Re: [Talk-gb-westmidlands] Access to High Street, Birmingham for blue badge holders.
On Thu, 31 Mar 2022 at 20:55, Rob Nickerson wrote: > If you can explain the restriction again, I'll see what tags I can suggest. I can try to > capture any time based rules too. Thank you. The sign reads: * "Pedestrian and cycle zone * [Image: no motor vehicles] * "Except [Image: Blue Badge] buses, taxis and for loading at any time" * "and authorised vehicles 7pm-6am". It can be seen here: https://goo.gl/maps/GTHTDxVeyugNZeKp7 -- Andy Mabbett @pigsonthewing http://pigsonthewing.org.uk -- Andy Mabbett @pigsonthewing http://pigsonthewing.org.uk ___ Talk-gb-westmidlands mailing list Talk-gb-westmidlands@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb-westmidlands
Re: [Talk-gb-westmidlands] Access to High Street, Birmingham for blue badge holders.
I've struggled to follow the details of the restriction but Brian's change is a good improvement. As in, remove the access tag completely (roads without access tag are assumed to be access=yes) and then start locking down for just motor vehicles (with the motor_vehicle tag). If you can explain the restriction again, I'll see what tags I can suggest. I can try to capture any time based rules too. P.s. was trying to link to the diagram. This used to exist on the English language page years ago but doesn't anymore. It's still on the German language page or directly available at https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/File:Access_hierarchy_simple2.png#mw-jump-to-license Rob On Thu, 31 Mar 2022, 20:39 Andy Mabbett, wrote: > On Thu, 31 Mar 2022 at 19:44, Rob Nickerson > wrote: > > > > No it's the other way round. More specific tags override the general > tags. > > > > So in the example > > > > access=destination > > motor_vehicle=no > > > > The first tag marks all transport modes (including foot) as destination > only, and motor_vehicle then changes this for that specific subset of > transportation modes to "no". In effect this is saying motorised vehicles > are not allowed, while non motorised vehicles, (horses) and pedestrians are > only allowed when going to their destination. > > Thank you. In that case, we still have an issue, because some motor > vehicles are allowed (and pedestrians may traverse these roads for any > purpose). > > I'm not clear how this should be tagged. > > -- > Andy Mabbett > @pigsonthewing > https://pigsonthewing.org.uk > > ___ > Talk-gb-westmidlands mailing list > Talk-gb-westmidlands@openstreetmap.org > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb-westmidlands > ___ Talk-gb-westmidlands mailing list Talk-gb-westmidlands@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb-westmidlands
[Talk-gb-westmidlands] Restarting face to face meetings
We should get these going again. If you younger folk want to get it going again please do so - I shall wait probably until May before I feel confident about mixing outside my immediate circle but if infections decrease substantially in April I might be tempted Regards Brain ___ Talk-gb-westmidlands mailing list Talk-gb-westmidlands@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb-westmidlands
Re: [Talk-gb-westmidlands] Access to High Street, Birmingham for blue badge holders.
On Thu, 31 Mar 2022 at 19:44, Rob Nickerson wrote: > > No it's the other way round. More specific tags override the general tags. > > So in the example > > access=destination > motor_vehicle=no > > The first tag marks all transport modes (including foot) as destination only, > and motor_vehicle then changes this for that specific subset of > transportation modes to "no". In effect this is saying motorised vehicles are > not allowed, while non motorised vehicles, (horses) and pedestrians are only > allowed when going to their destination. Thank you. In that case, we still have an issue, because some motor vehicles are allowed (and pedestrians may traverse these roads for any purpose). I'm not clear how this should be tagged. -- Andy Mabbett @pigsonthewing https://pigsonthewing.org.uk ___ Talk-gb-westmidlands mailing list Talk-gb-westmidlands@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb-westmidlands
Re: [Talk-gb-westmidlands] Access to High Street, Birmingham for blue badge holders.
I've changed it to motor_vehicle=destination as that is the most sense I could make of the wiki. Your link Rob was all in German. On Thu, 31 Mar 2022 at 19:45, Rob Nickerson wrote: > No it's the other way round. More specific tags override the general tags. > > So in the example > > access=destination > motor_vehicle=no > > The first tag marks all transport modes (including foot) as destination > only, and motor_vehicle then changes this for that specific subset of > transportation modes to "no". In effect this is saying motorised vehicles > are not allowed, while non motorised vehicles, (horses) and pedestrians are > only allowed when going to their destination. > > Simplified Hierarchy diagram: > > > https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/DE:Key:access#/media/File%3AAccess_hierarchy_simple2.png > > Best regards > Rob > > > On Thu, 31 Mar 2022, 12:55 Andy Mabbett, > wrote: > >> On Thu, 31 Mar 2022 at 09:33, Brian Prangle wrote: >> > >> > I've added the 7 disabled spaces round the corner on Albert Street and >> New Meeting >> > Street. >> >> Thank you, but I think your edit may have failed to save (or someone >> has since deleted them). I can find no such objects (I can see you >> node in High Street). >> >> > I've used access=destination >> >> I'm still confused, as we now have roads with: >> >>access=destination >>motor_vehicle=no >> >> Is there an implicit priority whereby the former overrides the latter? >> >> -- >> Andy Mabbett >> @pigsonthewing >> https://pigsonthewing.org.uk >> >> ___ >> Talk-gb-westmidlands mailing list >> Talk-gb-westmidlands@openstreetmap.org >> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb-westmidlands >> > ___ > Talk-gb-westmidlands mailing list > Talk-gb-westmidlands@openstreetmap.org > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb-westmidlands > ___ Talk-gb-westmidlands mailing list Talk-gb-westmidlands@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb-westmidlands
Re: [Talk-gb-westmidlands] Access to High Street, Birmingham for blue badge holders.
No it's the other way round. More specific tags override the general tags. So in the example access=destination motor_vehicle=no The first tag marks all transport modes (including foot) as destination only, and motor_vehicle then changes this for that specific subset of transportation modes to "no". In effect this is saying motorised vehicles are not allowed, while non motorised vehicles, (horses) and pedestrians are only allowed when going to their destination. Simplified Hierarchy diagram: https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/DE:Key:access#/media/File%3AAccess_hierarchy_simple2.png Best regards Rob On Thu, 31 Mar 2022, 12:55 Andy Mabbett, wrote: > On Thu, 31 Mar 2022 at 09:33, Brian Prangle wrote: > > > > I've added the 7 disabled spaces round the corner on Albert Street and > New Meeting > > Street. > > Thank you, but I think your edit may have failed to save (or someone > has since deleted them). I can find no such objects (I can see you > node in High Street). > > > I've used access=destination > > I'm still confused, as we now have roads with: > >access=destination >motor_vehicle=no > > Is there an implicit priority whereby the former overrides the latter? > > -- > Andy Mabbett > @pigsonthewing > https://pigsonthewing.org.uk > > ___ > Talk-gb-westmidlands mailing list > Talk-gb-westmidlands@openstreetmap.org > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb-westmidlands > ___ Talk-gb-westmidlands mailing list Talk-gb-westmidlands@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb-westmidlands
Re: [Talk-gb-westmidlands] Access to High Street, Birmingham for blue badge holders.
On Thu, 31 Mar 2022 at 09:33, Brian Prangle wrote: > > I've added the 7 disabled spaces round the corner on Albert Street and New > Meeting > Street. Thank you, but I think your edit may have failed to save (or someone has since deleted them). I can find no such objects (I can see you node in High Street). > I've used access=destination I'm still confused, as we now have roads with: access=destination motor_vehicle=no Is there an implicit priority whereby the former overrides the latter? -- Andy Mabbett @pigsonthewing https://pigsonthewing.org.uk ___ Talk-gb-westmidlands mailing list Talk-gb-westmidlands@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb-westmidlands
Re: [Talk-gb-westmidlands] Access to High Street, Birmingham for blue badge holders.
I had a good nose round yesterday and updated the area. The disabled space opposite Boots also has "Taxi" marking on the road so what the status is is anyone's guess. The issue is moot as there is a trench right through most of it so I've amended it to amenity:disused. I've added the 7 disabled spaces round the corner on Albert Street and New Meeting Street. I've also referenced the TRO in a note tag. I've used access=destination as this seems correct from the TRO Regards Brian On Wed, 30 Mar 2022 at 13:30, Andy Mabbett wrote: > On Tue, 29 Mar 2022 at 22:09, Ryan Underwood > wrote: > > > The section between Carrs Lane and Dale End is shut to all traffic > except buses and, I imagine, black cabs. > > Vehicles used[*] by Blue Badge holders may also use this section; > indeed, it is their only option once they have traversed Carrs Lane. > > Note that the restriction sign also permits "loading at any time", and > "authorised vehicles 7pm-6am". > > > [*] This includes vehicles which have already dropped off, or are > about to pick up, Blue Badge holders, on the road(s) concerned. > > -- > Andy Mabbett > @pigsonthewing > http://pigsonthewing.org.uk > > ___ > Talk-gb-westmidlands mailing list > Talk-gb-westmidlands@openstreetmap.org > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb-westmidlands > ___ Talk-gb-westmidlands mailing list Talk-gb-westmidlands@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb-westmidlands
