Re: [OSM-talk-ie] Talk-ie Digest, Vol 99, Issue 7

[Ciarán Staunton]

Greetings

To answer Dave's last question first, *I'm in to help in whatever way
possible*. I can attend any of the dates suggested, and  I can arrange an
appropriate venue for them to take place if that is needed. I've been
around the process of setting up companies etc. and served as a company
secretary before (though I can't ultimately be that for OSM).

I think Martín's comment is a good concern to have. However, I believe that
OSMF wants local chapters formally set up, composed of responsible groups
in each country to make accountable decisions about how the maps of each
country evolve, and to have oversight of licencing, manage upload efforts,
interpret increasing sources of open data and organizing truly OPEN (yes I
just shouted) meetings that are well publicised, and held in appropriate
venues to allow lots of different map stakeholders attend. I think that you
have hit the nail on the head in terms of the sequencing. A healthier
sequence of informal meetings drawing in people who are interested is a
good way to *lead in*, but the other thing is inevitable. Not everyone has
to go forward for participating on the structure, but anyone who does would
be accountable to everyone else.

Back to what Dave said. My forty two cents on the issues set out at the top
are:
- Groups like this need monthly or bi-monthly networking, bi-annual speaker
sessions and an AGM and anything else is based on energy. Mostly I think
the informality doesn't assist the activities members have away from the
table. I find myself teaching OSM to schools, without only two or three
members interested in that experience. Brian gave a super talk to the
Geneology Society about boundaries which he hasn't had a chance to do for
us, Dave has headed off to talk to the OGP, Dermot is doing propeller stuff
... literally.. you get the picture. These talks should be between
ourselves initially, with a feeling for what is then used to engage others.
Each SOTM conference concludes that face to face engagement is key for
success, that then goes outwards and invites new people in... each national
group does it... Ireland has no good reason to stand outside that.

- The new mapper engagement needs a schools/colleges exposure and some sort
of recruitment plan, with a sense of how particular skills and experiences
are constantly required to boost the community. Obviously we need to be
present in the sector with more regular participation at IRLOGI and that
sort of forum. There are also professional bodies for Engineers, Planners,
and Geographers who would fling their doors open if we could supply this
sort of engagement. There are also NGOs who would love to have a group to
liaise with, and Point here is that we need to increase the engagement in
these sectors, and we cant do that with the present structure in my
opinion. These are the things that increase the numbers of contributors and
ultimately the usefulness of the map.

- Getting out of Dublin is necessary if there's demand outside Dublin. I
think Maynooth is a good venue as a compromise for the west (don't laugh
its pragmatic). I think you cant get a compromise for the likes of Cork
other than to decamp down to Cork but only if there's demand. I don't think
its unreasonable to use something easy like Meetups or Eventbrite to
confirm attendance and ensure those who end up travelling are travelling
with good cause, and its easy for people to cancel right up until the last
second. That hasn't always been the case.

I don't mean to sound negative here, nor pat anyone on the back.
Considering the great work done over the years before I got involved
there's plenty worthwhile to talk about and co-ordinate our efforts on, and
that is befitting a proper level of organisation to support the goals
raised. None of the things Dave mentioned are difficult to do, they just
take a little time and consideration.

Looking forward to other views.
















On Mon, Aug 14, 2017 at 1:00 PM,  wrote:

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>1. OSM Ireland chapter - reboot (Dave Corley)
>2. Re: OSM Ireland chapter - reboot (Martín Ferrari)
>
>
> --
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2017 02:52:23 +0100
> From: Dave Corley 
> To: Discussion of Open Streetmap in Ireland
> 
> Subject: [OSM-talk-ie] OSM Ireland chapter - reboot
> Message-ID:
>  gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
>
> Hi,
>
> First, I want to apolog

Re: [OSM-talk-ie] OSM Ireland chapter - reboot

[Donal Hunt]

I'm happy to support in any way possible. I'm based down in Cork so happy
to support activities down this way as well as nationally.

Keep us looped in regarding dates, etc (happy to travel / video conference
for any meetups).

Donal

On 14 Aug 2017 07:33, "Martín Ferrari"  wrote:

> Hi Dave,
>
> On 13/08/17 21:52, Dave Corley wrote:
>
> > What I would love to see is a functioning OSM Ireland body which, at an
> > absolute minimum, could do the following
> [snip]
>
> Excuse me for the possibly dumb question.. But why is a legal entity
> needed to achive any of these goals? Seems to me all of that could be
> done as an informal group... Actually, I would say that there is no
> point in setting a formal structure unless there is an already
> functioning group.
>
> My 2¢.
>
> --
> Martín Ferrari (Tincho)
>
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Re: [OSM-talk-ie] OSM Ireland chapter - reboot

[Tadeusz Cantwell]

Anything that reinvigorates the OSM in Ireland I am in favour of. Having an
immediate goal of setting up formal structures seems like a good short term
goal to reboot the informal organisation to via regular meetings and build
from that. Other then that most of what is being discussed is new to me.

Tadeusz

On 14 August 2017 at 17:13, Donal Hunt  wrote:

> I'm happy to support in any way possible. I'm based down in Cork so happy
> to support activities down this way as well as nationally.
>
> Keep us looped in regarding dates, etc (happy to travel / video conference
> for any meetups).
>
> Donal
>
> On 14 Aug 2017 07:33, "Martín Ferrari"  wrote:
>
> > Hi Dave,
> >
> > On 13/08/17 21:52, Dave Corley wrote:
> >
> > > What I would love to see is a functioning OSM Ireland body which, at an
> > > absolute minimum, could do the following
> > [snip]
> >
> > Excuse me for the possibly dumb question.. But why is a legal entity
> > needed to achive any of these goals? Seems to me all of that could be
> > done as an informal group... Actually, I would say that there is no
> > point in setting a formal structure unless there is an already
> > functioning group.
> >
> > My 2¢.
> >
> > --
> > Martín Ferrari (Tincho)
> >
> > ___
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> >
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Re: [OSM-talk-ie] Talk-ie Digest, Vol 99, Issue 7

[Simon Poole]

Am 14.08.2017 um 17:48 schrieb Ciarán Staunton:

> ...
>
> I think Martín's comment is a good concern to have. However, I believe that
> OSMF wants local chapters formally set up, composed of responsible groups
> in each country to make accountable decisions about how the maps of each
> country evolve, 

I don't believe the OSMF has ever said, or even remotely indicated,
anything along such lines (and any implementation of such a policy is
likely to run in to strong resistance by contributors all over OSM), a
better way to is to think of local chapters as service and support
organisations for the national mapping community which fits in nicely
with the rest of your points which are completely OK.

While I'm commenting on this thread: I suspect that any hopes of
directly increasing contributor numbers by having a formal org are going
to be disappointed (similar ideas have been aired by the UK chapter). It
would be nice if I was proved wrong, but I don't believe that active
recruitment really works (fsov of works).

Simon

PS: the mailing list is still refusing to accept signed mails.




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Re: [OSM-talk-ie] Talk-ie Digest, Vol 99, Issue 7

[Seán Lynch]

Hey guys,

I am also (currently) based in Cork and would love to get more involved in
the community.

I am currently only a user of OSM but with some direction and guidance I
would like to get more involved as a contributor.

Would it be possible to set up a webinar? Perhaps this could become a more
regular thing if it hasn't been tried before?

I'd love to hear some discussion about the SOTM, issues, advice, gaps, how
to best spend time & maybe even provide some feedback. I think addressing
is something that should try and become standardised. I raised the issue
before about "Galway" vs "Co. Galway" vs "County Galway" or "Cork" as a
City or a County key etc. Maybe it is easier for Postgres + Postgis wizards
but in my experience working with key-value pairs from OSM is not very
convenient for those of us using MySQL.

For example, shameless self-plug here but if anyone is looking for a quick
sample of Irish (or global) OSM addresses, there are over 1103 (and
counting) reverse geocoded value addresses available from Ireland for Free,
at a single click and to re-use for any purpose + data on 120 litter types
@ https://openlittermap.com/maps/Ireland/ - Log in and the download option
will become available. Data was taken from the most recent OSM version at
the created_at timestamp. If anyone thinks this is useful, or could be more
useful if I also included the keys too, let me know and I can make that
happen. And feel welcome to run your own spatial analysis of litter
relative to OSM layers eg shops, bus stations etc. If anyone makes some maps
 with this
data (please do) I would love to see them. And feel welcome to submit as
much data as you like to reveal, communicate and open up data on plastic
pollution!:-)

Cheers,
Seán


On 14 August 2017 at 22:08, Simon Poole  wrote:

> Am 14.08.2017 um 17:48 schrieb Ciarán Staunton:
>
> > ...
> >
> > I think Martín's comment is a good concern to have. However, I believe
> that
> > OSMF wants local chapters formally set up, composed of responsible groups
> > in each country to make accountable decisions about how the maps of each
> > country evolve,
>
> I don't believe the OSMF has ever said, or even remotely indicated,
> anything along such lines (and any implementation of such a policy is
> likely to run in to strong resistance by contributors all over OSM), a
> better way to is to think of local chapters as service and support
> organisations for the national mapping community which fits in nicely
> with the rest of your points which are completely OK.
>
> While I'm commenting on this thread: I suspect that any hopes of
> directly increasing contributor numbers by having a formal org are going
> to be disappointed (similar ideas have been aired by the UK chapter). It
> would be nice if I was proved wrong, but I don't believe that active
> recruitment really works (fsov of works).
>
> Simon
>
> PS: the mailing list is still refusing to accept signed mails.
>
>
>
>
> ___
> Talk-ie mailing list
> Talk-ie@openstreetmap.org
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ie
>



-- 
https://openlittermap.com @OpenLitterMap (Fb, Tw, Ig)
M.Sc. Coastal & Marine Environments (NUIG, 2015)
M.Sc. GIS & Remote Sensing (UCC, 2014)
B.A. Geography & Economics (UCC, 2011)
ie.linkedin.com/in/seanlynchgis
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Re: [OSM-talk-ie] Talk-ie Digest, Vol 99, Issue 8

[Ciarán Staunton]

>I don't believe the OSMF has ever said, or even remotely indicated, anything
along such lines (and any implementation of such a policy is likely to run
in to strong resistance by contributors all over OSM), a
better way to is to think of local chapters as service and support
organisations
for the national mapping community which fits in nicely with the rest of
your points which are completely OK.

Hi Simon - Perhaps it's a case of emphasis, but on the Osm wiki where it
explains "why local chapters" it explicitly says that the osmf cannot reach
to everyone who has a question or facilitate a discussion. It furthermore
goes on to describe a locally constituted body performing that role, and
other roles like managing finances, and liaising with Government. The only
thing further to that which I mentioned was managing uploads, which is a de
facto activity in most such chapter existant. The only thing I omitted that
osmf includes was that they don't insist that the chapter is affiliated to
them and can be an "independent organisation", and I certainly didn't
intend or attempt to say otherwise. Interestingly, the osmf see the
creation of a formal body as the means to enable further engagement, and I
can't see why it would do that very thing since it would allocate activity
among a wider group of people than it is currently within our informal
group.

On 14 Aug 2017 23:19,  wrote:

> Send Talk-ie mailing list submissions to
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> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
> talk-ie-requ...@openstreetmap.org
>
> You can reach the person managing the list at
> talk-ie-ow...@openstreetmap.org
>
> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> than "Re: Contents of Talk-ie digest..."
>
>
> Today's Topics:
>
>1. Re: Talk-ie Digest, Vol 99, Issue 7 (Ciarán Staunton)
>2. Re: OSM Ireland chapter - reboot (Donal Hunt)
>3. Re: OSM Ireland chapter - reboot (Tadeusz Cantwell)
>4. Re: Talk-ie Digest, Vol 99, Issue 7 (Simon Poole)
>5. Re: Talk-ie Digest, Vol 99, Issue 7 (Seán Lynch)
>
>
> --
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2017 16:48:06 +0100
> From: Ciarán Staunton 
> To: talk-ie@openstreetmap.org
> Subject: Re: [OSM-talk-ie] Talk-ie Digest, Vol 99, Issue 7
> Message-ID:
>  mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
>
> Greetings
>
> To answer Dave's last question first, *I'm in to help in whatever way
> possible*. I can attend any of the dates suggested, and  I can arrange an
> appropriate venue for them to take place if that is needed. I've been
> around the process of setting up companies etc. and served as a company
> secretary before (though I can't ultimately be that for OSM).
>
> I think Martín's comment is a good concern to have. However, I believe that
> OSMF wants local chapters formally set up, composed of responsible groups
> in each country to make accountable decisions about how the maps of each
> country evolve, and to have oversight of licencing, manage upload efforts,
> interpret increasing sources of open data and organizing truly OPEN (yes I
> just shouted) meetings that are well publicised, and held in appropriate
> venues to allow lots of different map stakeholders attend. I think that you
> have hit the nail on the head in terms of the sequencing. A healthier
> sequence of informal meetings drawing in people who are interested is a
> good way to *lead in*, but the other thing is inevitable. Not everyone has
> to go forward for participating on the structure, but anyone who does would
> be accountable to everyone else.
>
> Back to what Dave said. My forty two cents on the issues set out at the top
> are:
> - Groups like this need monthly or bi-monthly networking, bi-annual speaker
> sessions and an AGM and anything else is based on energy. Mostly I think
> the informality doesn't assist the activities members have away from the
> table. I find myself teaching OSM to schools, without only two or three
> members interested in that experience. Brian gave a super talk to the
> Geneology Society about boundaries which he hasn't had a chance to do for
> us, Dave has headed off to talk to the OGP, Dermot is doing propeller stuff
> ... literally.. you get the picture. These talks should be between
> ourselves initially, with a feeling for what is then used to engage others.
> Each SOTM conference concludes that face to face engagement is key for
> success, that then goes outwards and invites new people in... each national
> group does it... Ireland has no good reason to stand outside that.
>
> - The new mapper engagement needs a schools/colleges exposure and some sort
> of recruitment plan, with a sense of how particular skills and experiences
> are constantly required to boost the community.