[Talk-us] Please unsubscribe me.

[Natfoot]

Please unsubscribe me I am done with OSM for a while.

Nathan P
email: natf...@gmail.com
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[Talk-us] Railway Wiki

[Natfoot]

Steve I hope this finds you well,
I have a few questions.

Open Railway Map/ Tagging in North America
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/OpenRailwayMap/Tagging_in_North_America

Open Railway Map/ Work Rules in North America
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/w/index.php?title=OpenRailwayMap/Work_Rules_in_North_America

United States/ Railroads
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/United_States/Railroads

California/ Railroads/ Active
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/California/Railroads/Active

What sort of data are we presenting on our pages? Are we placing how to
map, how to tag, or data that could be useful to mapping? I would like to
create a separate page where data that could be useful in mapping could
live along with data source resources and tabular data. One of the thoughts
is instead of adding all this data to OSMs wiki, adding it instead to
wikidata or to another wiki.

The second thought is that we have some nicely laid out local state pages
on railroads but that fails to take into account the sub divisions and
railroads that cross state lines or provide interstate commerce, or
intercontinental commerce.   Could we do a better job of
identifying continental railroads, country railroads, etc.  This would make
it easier to identify than duplicating efforts on separate state pages and
provide resources in one place.

Your thoughts are appreciated. Additionally I will send another email about
the reform and specific tagging of signals in north america and county.

Best Regards,
Nathan P
email: natf...@gmail.com
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Re: [Talk-us] Cycleway Crossings

[Natfoot]

all of my edits are using the ID presets.

Nathan P
email: natf...@gmail.com


On Fri, Aug 7, 2020 at 11:53 AM Mark Wagner  wrote:

> On Fri, 07 Aug 2020 07:11:01 -0400 (EDT)
> "Doug Peterson"  wrote:
>
> > I have noticed in my area where some people have been adding
> > crossings to a designated cycleway (named and signed as a bike
> > trail). The crossings are fine. It is that the crossing is then been
> > changed to a footway.
> >
> > I have looked at the highway=cycleway wiki and not seen anything
> > addressing crossings. There was one screenshot that seemed to show
> > intersections or crossings with roads remaining as cycleways. Before
> > I made any effort on changing these back I wanted to ask if there was
> > any other knowledge out there about this.
>
> This almost always happens because someone's adding crosswalks using
> iD, types "crosswalk" into the tag search, sees "Marked Crosswalk"
> (highway=footway, footway=crossing, crossing=marked) as the first hit,
> and fails to notice "Marked Cycle Crossing" (highway=cycleway,
> cycleway=crossing, crossing=marked) as the fourth.
>
> --
> Mark
>
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Re: [Talk-us] Cycleway Crossings

[Natfoot]

here is my example and location specific response
https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/663362208
Nathan P
email: natf...@gmail.com


On Fri, Aug 7, 2020 at 10:14 AM Mateusz Konieczny via Talk-us <
talk-us@openstreetmap.org> wrote:

>
>
>
> Aug 7, 2020, 13:11 by dougpeter...@dpeters2.dyndns.org:
>
> I have noticed in my area where some people have been adding crossings to
> a designated cycleway (named and signed as a bike trail). The crossings are
> fine. It is that the crossing is then been changed to a footway.
>
> link?
>
>
> I have looked at the highway=cycleway wiki and not seen anything
> addressing crossings. There was one screenshot that seemed to show
> intersections or crossings with roads remaining as cycleways. Before I made
> any effort on changing these back I wanted to ask if there was any other
> knowledge out there about this.
>
> is https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:crossing maybe helpful?
>
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Re: [Talk-us] [openrailwaymap] Self organised session at SotM about Railway tagging in the US tomorrow

[Natfoot]

Thanks for attending everyone. Real useful and look forward to working with
you in the future.

Best Regards,
Nathan P
email: natf...@gmail.com


On Sat, Jul 4, 2020 at 3:16 PM Steve All  wrote:

> Thank you for everybody's participation today, I enjoyed "meeting" or
> "seeing" you (again), even if it was "hearing" you only!
>
> I mentioned an article which classifies light-rail tram-trains into FOUR
> categories (not three) in an interesting way:
>
> https://pedestrianobservations.com/2019/07/31/what-is-light-rail-anyway
>
> The gist of the logic for doing this comes from this introduced table of
> classifications based upon speed of travel in both the center and outlying
> areas of the line in question:
>
> Slow in center  Fast in
> center
> Slow in outlying areas  Tramway Subway-surface
> Fast in outlying areas  Tram-train  Rapid transit
>
> (I hope those tabs work for your email display).
>
> Interesting article, VERY interesting (and lively — 68 Comments!) Comments
> Section.  Enjoy.
>
> Steve
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[Talk-us] Railroad Tagging Location codes

[Natfoot]

Hello to the list,
Quick question
Would location codes be helpful? Would they be helpful to list on the NA
railway wiki?
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/User:Natfoot_footnat#Location_Short_Hand

See my profile on wiki for as an example.


Nathan P
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Re: [Talk-us] Rail tagging in US (and North America): operator=* and reporting_marks=*

[Natfoot]

I guess I have been confused all this time.

Nathan P
email: natf...@gmail.com


On Sat, Jun 13, 2020 at 12:49 PM Clay Smalley  wrote:

> If I'm not mistaken, the examples you've given are instances of
> railway:track_ref=*, not ref=*.
>
> Throwing my two cents in here—that coincides with the way I personally use
> railway:track_ref=*. My understanding is that this uniquely identifies
> tracks within a line, station or yard, and is not synonymous with ref=*
> which seems to be a globally (nationally? operator-wide?) unique identifier.
>
> Here's an example in a station in Germany:
> https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/20889332
>
> In this case, track segment (ref=) 2610 is the (railway:track_ref=) 4th
> out of 8 parallel tracks at Neuss Central. In my experience, tracks in
> North America tend to be numbered extensively this way (Main Track 2, Yard
> Track 57, etc.). I've been filling railway:track_ref=* in with this
> information throughout California and the Northeast. I think ref=* would be
> useful information to fill in though I want to be sure about the definition
> of ref=* and that the source of information is authoritative and freely
> usable.
>
> Looking forward to how this discussion turns out.
>
> -Clay
>
> On Sat, Jun 13, 2020 at 12:12 PM Natfoot  wrote:
>
>> Chuck,
>> I think you make some good points in your email.  I would discourage the
>> hang ups on the diffring railroad terminology as it is different by
>> railroad and location.  Coming to a decision on how we are going to tag is
>> more important. I agree that line segments are useful and interested to
>> hear how you would suggest to tag them.
>>
>> Here some examples of the use of the ref=* tag
>> https://www.openrailwaymap.org/?lang=null=39.77267707885666=-104.98619109392166=18=standard
>>
>>
>>
>> https://www.openrailwaymap.org/?lang=null=39.78832735578315=-104.99941036105156=19=standard
>>
>>
>> https://www.openrailwaymap.org/?lang=null=41.860825816587464=-87.63588219881058=18=standard
>>
>>
>> Regards,
>> Nathan P
>> email: natf...@gmail.com
>>
>>
>> On Sat, Jun 13, 2020 at 9:28 AM Chuck Sanders  wrote:
>>
>>> Nathan, thanks - I've been thinking over your email and use case since
>>> coffee this morning, and looking for the right questions to pick your brain
>>> too, so that we can get the documentation right in the NA tagging wiki, and
>>> all of us on the same page.  I also started working up a a NA-specific and
>>> simplified JOSM tagging preset, so that's part of my impetus to really
>>> start getting into the weeds on this - part of my goal of the preset is to
>>> make it easy for all of us to tag consistently on the important tags ... so
>>> a huge part of that is making sure everything I do *agrees* with what
>>> everyone else understands those important tags to be!
>>>
>>> In particular, I can see the value of that BNSF track segment document
>>> you've been working on with others, and completely agree that's also
>>> information that should be captured properly in our metadata as well, I'm
>>> just trying to understand myself whether the ref tag is likely to be the
>>> right tag to do that.
>>>
>>> So far, I'm familiar with at least two different sets of "line numbers"
>>> in the US, and I haven't seen either used consistently before in the US in
>>> the way I understand that ref tag was meant to be used.
>>>
>>> One is the number set that started with the ICC Valuation Map Sections
>>> 100 years ago.  A lot of that data persisted long term, and I still see
>>> references in current documents, especially with NS material (I'm an east
>>> coast guy).  I also still see that referenced and used in a good bit of my
>>> CSXT documentation.  I've seen some of the related numbers also referred to
>>> as accounting numbers, and these do appear in certain current FRA records
>>> as well.
>>>
>>> The second is the "newer" FRA Line Segment numbers.  I believe the way
>>> FRA intended these to be used when they directed the creation of this
>>> system is the closest analogy we have to the German route numbers I was
>>> referring to.  NS does keep them on their track charts, but I haven't seen
>>> them on much CSX documentation.  Interestingly, even though these are meant
>>> to be used in the crossing number inventory forms, I often see this omitted
>>> in NS forms (even ones revised and completed recently), though it's usally
>>> completed in CSX forms.
>>>
>

Re: [Talk-us] Rail tagging in US (and North America): operator=* and reporting_marks=*

[Natfoot]

Chuck,
I think you make some good points in your email.  I would discourage the
hang ups on the diffring railroad terminology as it is different by
railroad and location.  Coming to a decision on how we are going to tag is
more important. I agree that line segments are useful and interested to
hear how you would suggest to tag them.

Here some examples of the use of the ref=* tag
https://www.openrailwaymap.org/?lang=null=39.77267707885666=-104.98619109392166=18=standard


https://www.openrailwaymap.org/?lang=null=39.78832735578315=-104.99941036105156=19=standard


https://www.openrailwaymap.org/?lang=null=41.860825816587464=-87.63588219881058=18=standard


Regards,
Nathan P
email: natf...@gmail.com


On Sat, Jun 13, 2020 at 9:28 AM Chuck Sanders  wrote:

> Nathan, thanks - I've been thinking over your email and use case since
> coffee this morning, and looking for the right questions to pick your brain
> too, so that we can get the documentation right in the NA tagging wiki, and
> all of us on the same page.  I also started working up a a NA-specific and
> simplified JOSM tagging preset, so that's part of my impetus to really
> start getting into the weeds on this - part of my goal of the preset is to
> make it easy for all of us to tag consistently on the important tags ... so
> a huge part of that is making sure everything I do *agrees* with what
> everyone else understands those important tags to be!
>
> In particular, I can see the value of that BNSF track segment document
> you've been working on with others, and completely agree that's also
> information that should be captured properly in our metadata as well, I'm
> just trying to understand myself whether the ref tag is likely to be the
> right tag to do that.
>
> So far, I'm familiar with at least two different sets of "line numbers" in
> the US, and I haven't seen either used consistently before in the US in the
> way I understand that ref tag was meant to be used.
>
> One is the number set that started with the ICC Valuation Map Sections 100
> years ago.  A lot of that data persisted long term, and I still see
> references in current documents, especially with NS material (I'm an east
> coast guy).  I also still see that referenced and used in a good bit of my
> CSXT documentation.  I've seen some of the related numbers also referred to
> as accounting numbers, and these do appear in certain current FRA records
> as well.
>
> The second is the "newer" FRA Line Segment numbers.  I believe the way FRA
> intended these to be used when they directed the creation of this system is
> the closest analogy we have to the German route numbers I was referring
> to.  NS does keep them on their track charts, but I haven't seen them on
> much CSX documentation.  Interestingly, even though these are meant to be
> used in the crossing number inventory forms, I often see this omitted in NS
> forms (even ones revised and completed recently), though it's usally
> completed in CSX forms.
>
> Unfortunately, as I work as a bridge inspector and designer and not a
> track inspector (and have always worked peripherally to the railroads and
> not directly for them), I'm not directly working with the same information
> you are as a track inspector.  Have these line segment numbers really
> finally been adopted as real, working route numbers?
>
> Chuck
> VA
>
> On Sat, Jun 13, 2020 at 12:30 AM Natfoot  wrote:
>
>> Sorry I saw your email in the ORM list and responded directly.
>> I find line segment numbers on track charts and timetables. I mostly work
>> with lines that have left BNSF or its predecessors so I have line segments
>> that were assigned by those railroads.  Here is a great list of
>> line segments of the BNSF/BN/GN/NP Etc.
>> .
>> http://www.nprha.org/NP%20Track%20Segments%20of%20BNSF/BNSF%20Track%20Segments%20Version%2010.pdf
>>
>> I'm on line segments, 403, 405, 408, and 411.
>> And I don't trust the FRA database to be accurate.
>>
>> Nathan P
>> email: natf...@gmail.com
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Jun 12, 2020 at 8:45 PM Chuck Sanders  wrote:
>>
>>> I'd love any information you can send regarding any sort of route number
>>> in use here like you're discussing. I've worked around the US rail industry
>>> for several decades (federal bridge engineer), and have never heard of such
>>> a thing, so I'm very curious.
>>>
>>> You're not talking about the FRAARCID in the FRA dataset, right?
>>>
>>> And I have to say, while "don't tag for the renderer" is almost always
>>> right, it also doesn't mean that a tag that works well already is
>>> automatically wrong, provided it also doesn't damage the validity of
>&

Re: [Talk-us] Rail tagging in US (and North America): operator=* and reporting_marks=*

[Natfoot]

Sorry I saw your email in the ORM list and responded directly.
I find line segment numbers on track charts and timetables. I mostly work
with lines that have left BNSF or its predecessors so I have line segments
that were assigned by those railroads.  Here is a great list of
line segments of the BNSF/BN/GN/NP Etc.
.
http://www.nprha.org/NP%20Track%20Segments%20of%20BNSF/BNSF%20Track%20Segments%20Version%2010.pdf

I'm on line segments, 403, 405, 408, and 411.
And I don't trust the FRA database to be accurate.

Nathan P
email: natf...@gmail.com


On Fri, Jun 12, 2020 at 8:45 PM Chuck Sanders  wrote:

> I'd love any information you can send regarding any sort of route number
> in use here like you're discussing. I've worked around the US rail industry
> for several decades (federal bridge engineer), and have never heard of such
> a thing, so I'm very curious.
>
> You're not talking about the FRAARCID in the FRA dataset, right?
>
> And I have to say, while "don't tag for the renderer" is almost always
> right, it also doesn't mean that a tag that works well already is
> automatically wrong, provided it also doesn't damage the validity of
> integrity of your dataset, and is consistent with the data scheme.
>
> Thanks!
> Chuck
>
> On Fri, Jun 12, 2020, 10:38 PM Natfoot  wrote:
>
>> Chuck,
>>
>> Thank You for your time fixing the reporting marks section.
>>
>> Railroad Line numbers do exist for railroads in the United States and
>> Canada.
>> Ref= is for the use of line numbers.  I can send you links to line
>> numbers.  Line numbers were given to a line by the railroad when it was
>> laid and often lasts it's entire lifetime, without a change. The other way
>> I see it used is to identify what track number it is: Eg Main 1, or you are
>> in a yard and there is track 1, 2, 3, etc.  Both of these are examples of
>> track numbers.
>>
>>  I will discourage the changing of in use tags for the soul purpose of
>> editing for the renderer.  This is a renderer problem and not a problem
>> with OSM.Here is the wiki about not editing for the renderer
>> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tagging_for_the_renderer
>>
>>  There is a OpenRailwayMap email list.  I was just there chatting about
>> how Traffic Control is different from Train Protection. I will agree that
>> ORM under represents the data from North America that is already within the
>> map.  Please make these suggestions in the ORM list to make the ORM
>> renderer more usable as you have described.
>>
>> Quote from your email:
>> "  The label is occasionally the spelled out operator name, but most
>> commonly (better than 90% of examples) the operator reporting marks, which
>> serve as a standardized shorthand.  Even the names, as we tag them in the
>> name field, are rarely used to refer to the lines, and are essentially
>> never used on mapping here.They're the absolute last-choice designator, and
>> you *really* have to hunt to find any rail map in the US (including by the
>> operators) that labels any line by name."   " That's the US industry
>> standard."
>>
>>   All of this paragraph are style choices when rendering the data from
>> within OSM. If you would like this to change, talk to the ORM list or make
>> a better renderer. I will reject your assertion that we should dumb down
>> the map just becuase that is the way TOPO had it.  If you are a railroad
>> owner and you are worried about the amount of information on OSM that is a
>> valid argument but that is not the way you are presenting this as of now.
>>
>> Thanks for your thoughts on all of this. I agree that OpenStreetMap, Open
>> Railway Map, and the renderer could be improved to better show off what we
>> have here in North America. Researchers utilize OSM as we have the most up
>> to date railway map in the country of any data source and it is
>> important to maintain standards.  I believe that the wiki pertaining to
>> railway=* is confusing and the addition of continent specific tagging makes
>> it more difficult to understand.  If you would like to help me with
>> cataloging this information this is one of the side projects. But right now
>> I am over on Open Historical Map adding railroads over there.
>>
>> Best Regards,
>>
>>> Nathan P
>>> email: natf...@gmail.com
>>>
>>
>>
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Re: [Talk-us] Rail tagging in US (and North America): operator=* and reporting_marks=*

[Natfoot]

Chuck,

Thank You for your time fixing the reporting marks section.

Railroad Line numbers do exist for railroads in the United States and
Canada.
Ref= is for the use of line numbers.  I can send you links to line
numbers.  Line numbers were given to a line by the railroad when it was
laid and often lasts it's entire lifetime, without a change. The other way
I see it used is to identify what track number it is: Eg Main 1, or you are
in a yard and there is track 1, 2, 3, etc.  Both of these are examples of
track numbers.

 I will discourage the changing of in use tags for the soul purpose of
editing for the renderer.  This is a renderer problem and not a problem
with OSM.Here is the wiki about not editing for the renderer
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tagging_for_the_renderer

 There is a OpenRailwayMap email list.  I was just there chatting about how
Traffic Control is different from Train Protection. I will agree that ORM
under represents the data from North America that is already within the
map.  Please make these suggestions in the ORM list to make the ORM
renderer more usable as you have described.

Quote from your email:
"  The label is occasionally the spelled out operator name, but most
commonly (better than 90% of examples) the operator reporting marks, which
serve as a standardized shorthand.  Even the names, as we tag them in the
name field, are rarely used to refer to the lines, and are essentially
never used on mapping here.They're the absolute last-choice designator, and
you *really* have to hunt to find any rail map in the US (including by the
operators) that labels any line by name."   " That's the US industry
standard."

  All of this paragraph are style choices when rendering the data from
within OSM. If you would like this to change, talk to the ORM list or make
a better renderer. I will reject your assertion that we should dumb down
the map just becuase that is the way TOPO had it.  If you are a railroad
owner and you are worried about the amount of information on OSM that is a
valid argument but that is not the way you are presenting this as of now.

Thanks for your thoughts on all of this. I agree that OpenStreetMap, Open
Railway Map, and the renderer could be improved to better show off what we
have here in North America. Researchers utilize OSM as we have the most up
to date railway map in the country of any data source and it is
important to maintain standards.  I believe that the wiki pertaining to
railway=* is confusing and the addition of continent specific tagging makes
it more difficult to understand.  If you would like to help me with
cataloging this information this is one of the side projects. But right now
I am over on Open Historical Map adding railroads over there.

Best Regards,

> Nathan P
> email: natf...@gmail.com
>
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[Talk-us] Ferries - ferry

[Natfoot]

Hey all,

I was looking at ferries on OSM in Washington State, USA and was wondering
if there is a world based OSM wiki page like there is for railways.
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Railways

I am double checking with the community before going ahead and developing
this page https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Ferries to look more like the
page above for Railways.

Then I can work on a regional page for Washington State.

Best Regards,
Nathan P
email: natf...@gmail.com


Virus-free.
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[Talk-us] Cycle_greenway

[Natfoot]

Hello to the US community,

I have found some edits in the Seattle area that have cycleway:
cycle_greenway
I can find no reference to this tag within the wiki.   Can someone please
advise on the credibility of this tag. Also comment if someone is using
this tag in a rendering or other application.

Portland another city with an extensive greenway network is tagging their
greenways the more traditional tagging attributes:
https://www.openstreetmap.org/edit#map=18/45.55605/-122.64238
Though most naming says they are bike boulevards.

Resources:
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Bicycle_tags_map

http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Bicycle

http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:cycleway

Tag Used:
http://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/21347318
http://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/21347240
https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/332086469
http://www.openstreetmap.org/way/6413359
http://www.openstreetmap.org/way/6384419
http://api.osm.org/way/262778845/history
http://spike-03.osm.ichosted.org.uk/way/6515083/history
http://spike-03.osm.ichosted.org.uk/way/6507939/history#map=16/47.5732/-122.3051


Best Regards,
Nathan P
email: natf...@gmail.com
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Re: [Talk-us] Should driveways be on OSM?

[Natfoot]

I always add driveways to the map when there is more than one house or
building on said driveway.

Regards,

Nathan P
email: natf...@gmail.com

On Mon, Sep 28, 2015 at 7:44 AM, Nate Wessel  wrote:

> I delete plenty of TIGER driveways myself (mostly in the midwest,
> *highfive*!), but I wouldn't say that the accurate ones should be removed.
> If they can be identified as private driveways, they could more easily just
> not be rendered on a map with no loss of accurate data for people who might
> find that sort of thing useful. My general approach has been to leave the
> truly accurate ones untouched, but to delete anything who's deletion leaves
> the map more accurate. I just don't feel inclined to redraw them.
>
> I should specify, this is my (personal) policy only for untouched TIGER
> imports.
>
> Cheers,
> Nate
>
>
> On 09/28/2015 01:33 AM, Tom Bloom wrote:
>
> TIGER drew thousands of driveways that are often simply wrong. They are
> tagged private and in my opinion spoil the map appearance with little red
> squiggles all over the place. No other map I've found includes them.
> Looking around the country, I notice some areas where they were removed,
> changed to service roads, drawn de novo, and one area (near Rosebud, OR)
> where they were inexplicably changed to living_street, which they just
> aren't.
>
> I've been deleting them if wildly wrong, and would like to delete all I
> encounter. Any ideas?
>
> (I mostly map in the Midwest)
>
>
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Re: [Talk-us] Railway crossing challenge for MapRoulette

[Natfoot]

Great Topic,
Interesting that I have been doing my own research into this data set.   I
can tell you without a doubt that some of the information is way out of
date or wrong.   (http://fragis.frasafety.net/GISFRASafety/)
It is my understanding that railroads are supposed to report data like this
to the UTC (utilities and transportation commission) and in some way make
it back to the FRA.  You can find the more up to date Washington UTC data
set here:
http://www.utc.wa.gov/regulatedIndustries/transportation/rail/Pages/CrossingInventory.aspx

There is a new FRA regulation going into effect in October to place clear
emergency contact information at each level_crossing or Highway crossing.
  Lori Halstead of the Washington UTC hopes that following that deadline
that the FRA database will be updated.

One example, check any railroad crossing in the city limits of Kirkland,
WA; if it is active with a current listing for railroad it is out of date
by 5 years as the city owns the right of way and much of it has been turned
into a trail with no rail or crossing protections.

Best Regards,
Nathan P
email: natf...@gmail.com

On Mon, Jul 6, 2015 at 7:46 AM, Martijn van Exel m...@rtijn.org wrote:

 Hi all,

 I have done some work to turn the FRA crossing data into a MapRoulette
 challenge to fix missing railway crossings.

 Here is the description I have come up with for now:


 https://www.dropbox.com/s/4xh49ufnwyxp35r/Screenshot%202015-07-06%2008.43.21.png?dl=0

 Please share your corrections / feedback so I can improve this if
 necessary before I push it live. (In particular I am never sure whether to
 use crossing or level_crossing.)

 Thanks,

 Martijn



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Re: [Talk-us] Moving historic railroad ways from OSM to OpenHistoricalMap

[Natfoot]

Has this user assessed these areas against the Surface Transportation Board
data bank and if the right of way is rail banked?

There is so many situations where to his naked eye on the ground he may not
be able to see it.  To a person like myself I can still find the signs on
the earth of where the railroad once was. We even have roadways that were
built on old right of ways.  I see this act as vandalism of data.

Nathan P
email: natf...@gmail.com

On Mon, Mar 30, 2015 at 10:53 PM, Minh Nguyen m...@nguyen.cincinnati.oh.us
wrote:

 On 2015-03-29 05:00, Mark Bradley wrote:

 Hello list.  I have been communicating with a mapper who says he has
 been deleting abandoned railroads (the ones where the infrastructure is
 totally removed).  As the premise of OSM is to only map
 ground-verifiable features (other than certain boundaries), I didn't
 want to argue with him, but I don't want to see this information lost
 either.  I said I would look into transferring those ways to
 OpenHistoricalMap.  Yesterday he sent me a message, saying he's
 identified two more abandoned railroads and he's giving me the
 opportunity to act on them before they get deleted.  Can I export these
 ways from OSM and then import them into OHM?  Or is there a better way
 or some other solution?


 Just wanted to point out that there's still a place in OSM for mapping
 railroad rights-of-way where the tracks have been pulled out but the ROW is
 still reserved and discernible. The Standard style no longer renders
 railway=abandoned, but it can still be a useful navigational landmark.

 In any case, I've CC'd the OpenHistoricalMap list, where all the experts
 hang out these days.

 --
 m...@nguyen.cincinnati.oh.us


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Re: [Talk-us] USA Rail: Calling all OSM railfans! (especially in California)

[Natfoot]

Keep me updated from Washington State. I work for a Railroad.

Nathan P
email: natf...@gmail.com

On Sun, Mar 29, 2015 at 5:08 PM, Russ Nelson nel...@crynwr.com wrote:

 stevea writes:
   I have run into devotees of old_railway_operator=* and respect the
   tag by leaving it be where I encounter it, though I don't go out of
   my way to add it unless I have absolute positive knowledge of it
   (rarely to never).

 Yeah, it's an NE2 thing which he added automatically by changing the
 name of abandoned railroads to old_railway_operator. He's technically
 correct because the branch of a railroad, the name it goes by, is
 often not the name of the company who operated it. The line that goes
 south of Lake Ontario in NY was called the Hojack, but was operated
 by New York Central.

 It would be nice if map renderers, when presented with an abandoned
 railroad that has no name, rather than follow the USGS practice of
 saying Abandoned Railroad Bed, would look for name= first,
 old_railway_operator= second, and only if those two are absent,
 rendered the railway as a dotted line labeled Abandoned Railroad Bed
 just like the USGS does.

   In California, rail is approximately early alpha.  For the USA as a
   whole, I'd say rail is even before that, in an early development
   phase.

 New York rail is 99% done. I say 97% because I need to hit some
 railroad yards in Buffalo still.

 --
 --my blog is athttp://blog.russnelson.com
 Crynwr supports open source software
 521 Pleasant Valley Rd. | +1 315-600-8815
 Potsdam, NY 13676-3213  | Sheepdog

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Re: [Talk-us] Routing on Ferries

[Natfoot]

The inherent problem with ferry routes is that they have a schedule.
Routers can't then tell their users how long it is going to take without
that data.

As far as I know we don't have schedule capability within OSM and it is
something that the routers have not pulled not even the big G. The big G is
listing the route as being Mon-Sun: 7 AM–11:30 PM · every 60 min  This is
a safe comment even though the schedules change seasonally.

Nathan P
email: natf...@gmail.com

On Thu, Jan 1, 2015 at 8:19 AM, Clifford Snow cliff...@snowandsnow.us
wrote:


 On Wed, Dec 31, 2014 at 11:18 PM, Natfoot natf...@gmail.com wrote:

 When talking to the Scout team this summer it was mentioned as an issue.
 Also Scout wont route across access roads and if there is an access road
 leading up to the dock/portal then no route. you will notice that it is
 listed as primary road in Edmonds and Kingston.


 It would appear that the router should use a ferry route. However, a check
 of both osrm and mapquest would indicate otherwise. The problem is I don't
 know if that is a routing engine problem, i.e. it won't use a ferry route,
 or a tagging problem.

 The tests were done using http://jsrouting.apis.dev.openstreetmap.org/

 Clifford


 --
 @osm_seattle
 osm_seattle.snowandsnow.us
 OpenStreetMap: Maps with a human touch

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Re: [Talk-us] [Imports-us] Rail westerly

[Natfoot]

Also good data can be retrieved from time tables, division maps, and track
diagrams.

Nathan Proudfoot
Tel: (425) 835-3638
email: n.pf...@gmail.com

On Wed, Dec 31, 2014 at 12:36 PM, Clifford Snow cliff...@snowandsnow.us
wrote:


 On Wed, Dec 31, 2014 at 11:24 AM, stevea stevea...@softworkers.com
 wrote:

 I examine these in JOSM right now.  First they need to be unzipped, and
 it looks like the (provided on that web page) PRJ file to change from WGS
 84 (default) to either NAD 27 or 83 projection is required. I haven't done
 that to these data in the instant case, but I've fiddled these before and I
 think it is doable.


 Michael,
 Thanks for the info!  You always can be counted on to find data, even if
 it is obscure.

 SteveA,
 I'd be happy to convert the shapefile to an .osm file for importing. It
 could be broken into smaller chunks to use the tasking manager. Maybe by
 county. Someone needs to create a import page on the wiki and announce it
 on the import mailing list.

 Let me know what you think.

 Clifford


 --
 @osm_seattle
 osm_seattle.snowandsnow.us
 OpenStreetMap: Maps with a human touch

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Re: [Talk-us] Routing on Ferries

[Natfoot]

Clifford,
When talking to the Scout team this summer it was mentioned as an issue.
Also Scout wont route across access roads and if there is an access road
leading up to the dock/portal then no route. you will notice that it is
listed as primary road in Edmonds and Kingston.


Nathan P

On Wed, Dec 31, 2014 at 10:39 PM, Clifford Snow cliff...@snowandsnow.us
wrote:

 A Scout note, http://www.openstreetmap.org/note/294192 complains of
 routing problems when a ferry is required.  A user of the OSM-based Scout
 app reported the following possible map error: will not use ferry route.
 avoid ferry not checked.  Is that a problem limited to Scout, or is there
 something we should be checking for?

 BTW - I've taken this ferry from Edmonds to Kingston, WA a number of
 times. It is a great trip during nice weather.

 Clifford

 --
 @osm_seattle
 osm_seattle.snowandsnow.us
 OpenStreetMap: Maps with a human touch

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Re: [Talk-us] Rail westerly

[Natfoot]

Hey guys,
Some words of support and complication.   The usage=main is a problem, and
here is why: What people consider to be main line can not and will not be
known by looking at it in real life nor specified by whether or not it has
passenger service on it. As such you can also have main line enter a yard
disappear in yard limits and have it continue on the other side.   If you
can find a map like this
http://www.bnsf.com/customers/pdf/maps/carload_map.pdf you will at least
know what tracks are primarily used these may be main or branch traffic.
Branch traffic may have main track within it.   Also short line railroads
complicate as what they consider main line is different then the class one
railroads.
I wish that the railroads listed above in the open railway would have
updated from last night as I could show examples of my local knowledge and
a little more.

 Best Regards,

Nathan P.

On Sat, Dec 20, 2014 at 12:45 PM, Tod Fitch t...@fitchdesign.com wrote:

 On Dec 20, 2014, at 12:35 PM, stevea wrote:

 
  Yes, I'll use owner= if known, and it is name= which displays in ORM as
 the name of the line.  Many lines had name= as the service run upon them
 (like Caltrain instead of Union Pacific), and I have corrected this where I
 know it was wrong in OSM.  But I haven't corrected all of these, just the
 ones I know.  And now I think I'll have to go back and correct name=Union
 Pacific as the name of Union Pacific's subdivision for the line that
 Caltrain is run upon: Caltrain itself should be a relation.  And so on.
 

 I was under the very strong impression that the main line from San Jose to
 San Francisco is owned by the Joint Powers Board (CalTrain) and not by
 Union Pacific. I believe that there are branches off that owned by Union
 Pacific and maybe even BNSF but that the main right of way was actually
 Caltrain's. Any place one could confirm or deny that?
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Re: [Talk-us] Rail westerly

[Natfoot]

Steve,
If you are finding PCIX those are the call letters for the railroad that is
the owner, they may also be the operator.

Now here is the tricky bit, I will use the example of a local short line
railroad.

This railroad the property is owned by the county and the port; one
railroad (GNPX) has the operating rights who then contracts with a second
company that is a railroad (BDTL) yet the line in which they are running is
known as another railroad (ESFR).

If any of you can sort this out into the proper categories I think it will
help a few many people.

If I had to sort out the problem in the past email I would say that it is
probably laid out as such: Join Powers Board is the landowner CalTrain is
the owner, operator, and UP has operational rights to the corridor.

Best Regards,
Nathan P

On Sat, Dec 20, 2014 at 6:13 PM, stevea stevea...@softworkers.com wrote:

 On Dec 20, 2014, at 12:35 PM, stevea wrote:
   Yes, I'll use owner= if known, and it is name= which displays in ORM
 as the name of the line.  Many lines had name= as the service run upon them
 (like Caltrain instead of Union Pacific), and I have corrected this where I
 know it was wrong in OSM.  But I haven't corrected all of these, just the
 ones I know.  And now I think I'll have to go back and correct name=Union
 Pacific as the name of Union Pacific's subdivision for the line that
 Caltrain is run upon: Caltrain itself should be a relation.  And so on.


 Tod Fitch replies:

 I was under the very strong impression that the main line from San Jose
 to San Francisco is owned by the Joint Powers Board (CalTrain) and not by
 Union Pacific. I believe that there are branches off that owned by Union
 Pacific and maybe even BNSF but that the main right of way was actually
 Caltrain's. Any place one could confirm or deny that?


 Let's suppose Joint Powers Board is the owner.  Does that mean that
 owner=Joint Powers Board, operator=Caltrain (and a route relation for
 Caltrain's services:  Baby Bullet and Local) is correct?  What do we put
 into the name= tag?  A subdivision name?  Perhaps Joint Powers Board (as
 well as, or instead of the owner tag)?

 As I look in the (excellent) CPUC_Rail_Crossing_List_v20140603.xls
 document recently pointed to, I find no occurrence of Joint Powers Board
 in the whole sheet.  Though, I do recognize it as a real entity that
 administers the Caltrain service (and it may own the track, too).  I do
 find PCIX:  Caltrain in the Rail System column, though, so that is a good
 indication we might put PCIX, Caltrain, or PCIX:Caltrain in the name= tag.

 It seems we are still a little unclear on how to (fully, properly) tag
 rail in the USA, with California trying to be a leader in OSM (again), but
 at least this discussion seems to be getting us closer. Good!

 SteveA
 California


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Re: [Talk-us] Rail westerly

[Natfoot]

Thanks Steve,
I am working on what I can. Would like to have some discussion on proper
tuning of relations.  Many of these open railway map tags are new to me.
-Nathan

NathanP

On Fri, Dec 19, 2014 at 8:10 PM, stevea stevea...@softworkers.com wrote:

 I'm beginning to channel California rail, especially mainline, branch,
 naming operators and owners and having routes be well established as
 relations.

 I use openrailwaymap.org to do this.  The USA could use some, ahem,
 tuning up.  Much work ahead.

 SteveA
 California

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Re: [Talk-us] Roads closed for maintenance/construction

[Natfoot]

Saikrishna,
From my understanding that is correct.
ᐧ

Nathan Proudfoot



On Sun, May 4, 2014 at 8:18 AM, Saikrishna Arcot saiarcot...@gmail.comwrote:

 Hi all,

 Is there a specific tag for roads that have already been constructed, but
 are closed either for maintenance or construction of something else? On my
 university campus, a short stretch of a road has been closed for the
 construction of a new steam pipe under the road. I'm currently using
 highway=contruction and construction=tertiary (the road in question is a
 tertiary road).

 --
 Saikrishna Arcot
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Re: [Talk-us] a reminder for armchair mappers

[Natfoot]

I also agree that putting notes in the tags are helpful to some of us that
are armchair mappers.  I will see the tags sooner than the history data. I
tend to map around railroads using the imagery and Tiger data and tags.
-Nathan


On Fri, Dec 6, 2013 at 9:29 AM, Martijn van Exel m...@rtijn.org wrote:

 That is a great point and something I feel strongly about, having
 created armchair mapper's tools like Battle Grid and Maproulette.

 I will make some time to put in a warning notice into these tools that
 would pop up the first time folks use it. What would a good, concise,
 cautionary note look like?

 On Fri, Dec 6, 2013 at 9:08 AM, Richard Welty rwe...@averillpark.net
 wrote:
  if you see a discrepancy between aerial imagery and OSM, before you
  go adding/changing stuff, check on the history of the stuff that's there
  and see if another mapper has worked on things recently (for some
  value of recently.) i have done a bunch of work in the past month
  adding in a new traffic circle on US 4 in Rensselaer County, NY,
  using GPS traces. as part of the process,  i removed a slip ramp
  from I-90 that was taken out by DOT when they built the new
  circle. i just now discovered that another mapper added the slip
  ramp back in, presumably because it's in the Bing imagery, which
  is at this point 2 or 3 years old.
 
  this isn't the first time i've been through this; a year or so back
  a couple of armchair mappers repeatedly changed a part of Troy
  to match obsolete imagery and i kept having to ask them not to
  and put back in the recent changes. i now put README tags on
  the ways but if i delete something i have no place to put a
  README tag.
 
  imagery goes out of date. armchair mappers must never forget
  that. if the imagery doesn't match the map, contact a local mapper
  if you can identify one. you could be fixing something that wasn't
  actually broken.
 
  thanks,
 richard
 
 
 
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Re: [Talk-us] Railroads and Railroads (Historic)

[Natfoot]

John,
As listed by James we have, railway=disused
 I would not encourage hiking or rail-biking any of these routes as they
are in question by the tag of disused and most of these are still going to
be private property.  Once abandoned it is no longer a railroad per-say.

Best Regards,
Nathan Proudfoot
email: n.pf...@gmail.com


On Sun, Nov 10, 2013 at 4:26 PM, John F. Eldredge j...@jfeldredge.comwrote:

  On 11/10/2013 03:30 PM, nathan proudfoot wrote:

 Hello got some questions about Railroads,
 I have a passion for the preservation of railroads and the maps
 surrounding them.  I both update current map data with a line per each
 track.  Track is in most cases two rails attached by a sleeper or tie. I
 have over 10,000 edits over on GMM and under 4,000 with OSM.

  I am mostly coming to ask about historic railroads and how to map them.
 In my area we have lots of rail trails, these trails mostly have been
 mapped by
 bicycle=yes
 foot=yes
 highway=cycleway
 horse=yes
 name=John Wayne Pioneer Trail
 note=railway=abandoned indicates a rail-trail
 old_railway_operator=Milwaukee
  railway=abandoned
 Ect..

  Is this the way that we should be mapping these as there are historic
 attributes.
 For instance we could add.
 historic=ruins
 ruins=railroad

  or we could remove railway=abandoned
 but in this case the railroad is rail banked and could be brought out of
 abandoned status.

  We have other routes in the state that are not rail banked and are
 historic and are not seen as abandoned.

  Best Regards,
  Nathan Proudfoot
  email: n.pf...@gmail.com

  We probably need a value such as railway=inactive for routes that are not
 in use, but still have the rails in place.  The only problem is that, if
 someone erroneously tags an active but little-used route as inactive, this
 could lead to an accident if someone went hiking or rail-biking on the
 route.

 --
 John F. Eldredge -- j...@jfeldredge.com
 Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that.
 Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.
 Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr.


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Re: [OSRM-talk] How to change the routes so that it is not illegal

[Natfoot]

Thanks Dennis,
Unfortunately I am way beyond that at over 3,000 edits. If I can get
directions or guidance towards editing routes that would be great.
Best Regards,
Nathan Proudfoot


On Mon, Oct 28, 2013 at 12:19 AM, Dennis Luxen lu...@kit.edu wrote:

 Hey Nathan,

 Welcome to OSM. You can edit the OpenStreetMap data on the main page of
 http://osm.org by clicking the edit tab on the top.

 --Dennis

 Am 28.10.2013 um 04:19 schrieb Natfoot natf...@gmail.com:

 Hello Team,
 I am a newer user to Open Street Map but have been editing maps for the
 past 3 years. It took me a year to correct a routing issue on Google Maps
 and would like to do the same for routing using Open Street Map. I was
 directed here when I was at the map event here in Seattle last week. Pleas
 can you guide me on how I can make this change?

 Best Regards,
 Nathan Proudfoot
 email: n n.pf...@gmail.comatf...@gmail.com

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[OSRM-talk] How to change the routes so that it is not illegal

[Natfoot]

Hello Team,
I am a newer user to Open Street Map but have been editing maps for the
past 3 years. It took me a year to correct a routing issue on Google Maps
and would like to do the same for routing using Open Street Map. I was
directed here when I was at the map event here in Seattle last week. Pleas
can you guide me on how I can make this change?

Best Regards,
Nathan Proudfoot
email: n n.pf...@gmail.comatf...@gmail.com
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