[talk-au] Naming Ramps in Australia
Hi all, I have noticed that the majority of ramps in Australia tend to have descriptive names and that naming format/system is not unique. Also, it is 50-50 between named and unnamed ramps. I have researched ramps across all Australia, looked at Mapillary, OSC, government data, OSM history. On street level imagery I could not find any named ramp. In some cases there was an exit number, and it was tagged as junction:ref because it is not a name of the exit, but all I could find were just destination signs. However, on OSM, ramps had names which in some cases contained information for destinations (John Willcock Link (Eastbound) to Brand Highway) or their function (Pacific Highway On/Offramp). Government data was descriptive in some cases, there was no name in others so no consistency there also. I think that ramps do not have names and therefore should not contain a name key in OSM (only if there is a specific name for it, then it should have a name key). Exit numbers should be added as junction:ref and signposts data should be added either as destination relation or destination key on the way so routing algorithms could pick that info and give instructions like: "Take the exit toward X,Y,Z". If there is a name, instructions will be like: "Take left to X,Y,Z onramp/offramp". I am raising this question in hope to get some kind of consensus how to treat these cases across Australia, so all the ramps have the same format (conclusion could be added to Australian Tagging Guidelines on wiki page for all editors to have as instruction). What is your opinion on this? ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
[talk-au] A22 route Sydney
I was checking A22 route in Sydney and found out some possible irregularity. https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=17/-33.88462/151.19843 By looking at Wiki https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_road_routes_in_New_South_Wales City Road - Broadway junction should be logical start of A22 route. On the other hand https://www.ozroads.com.au/ suggest that is should start from Lee street, Pitt Street junction with George Street but no sign indicates this. And, at the end, OSM has route start/end point at Broadway. What is confusing is that there are two sings that shows that A22 continues further than junction with A36 route but just up to next junction (Broadway - Abercrombie Street). The one in Broadway street is confusing because it points to City South, but if you go in that direction you will end up in Central Sydney. I just want to check what is the correct start point of A22 route. Also, what is questionable is road classification from City Road - Broadway junction up to George Street Lee Street junction, because it does not look as trunk. I have attached illustration of described problem so it is easier to get the picture of the problem: https://prnt.sc/qyxy5o Best regards, Aleksandar Matejevic ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
[talk-au] Newcastle to Ballina Pacific Highway classification
I came across section of Pacific Highway between Balina and Newcastle which is currently under upgrade until 2020. (https://www.pacifichighway.nsw.gov.au) At some parts it looks like a motorway, but in most parts it still looks like a trunk. South from Newcastle and north from Balina there are M1 signs at both ends, but between them this is still marked as A1. Near Newcastle there is "END MOTORWAY" sign (https://www.mapillary.com/app/?lat=-32.8273335=151.632974=17=photo=QwLK6dsVE3rIYlRi71FkkQ=0.4803505694838756=0.4734649939668362=0.04809894640403123) Besides, there are still some junctions where you can access both sides of highway at a time. Looking at https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:highway%3Dmotorway I would rather say that this section of highway is trunk instead od motorway. Sure, they upgraded most parts to dual carriageway, but this does not automatically means that these sections are motorway, because still some work has to be done (bypasses, ramps, etc). I wanted to ask for some more opinions before changing this section of Pacific Highway to trunk. Feel free to comment. Best regards, Aleksandar ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
[talk-au] Road hierarchy in Western Australia
According to: https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Australian_Tagging_Guidelines , https://www.mainroads.wa.gov.au/Documents/Road%20Hierarchy%20Criteria%20-%20April%202011.u_3158367r_1n_D11%5E2392185.PDF https://www.mainroads.wa.gov.au/Documents/About%20the%20Western%20Australian%20Road%20Hierarchy%20-%20Website%20version.u_2933434r_1n_D10%5E23234999.PDF https://www.mainroads.wa.gov.au/BuildingRoads/StandardsTechnical/RoadandTrafficEngineering/TrafficManagement/DirectionalSignsGuidelines/Pages/Guidelines_for_Direction_Signs_in_the_Perth_Metropolitan_Area.aspx Primary distributor roads should be mapped as motorway, trunk or primary roads in OSM, Regional distributor roads should be mapped as trunk, primary or secondary roads in OSM, Distributor A roads should be mapped as primary or secondary roads in OSM, Distributor B roads should be mapped as secondary or tertiary roads in OSM, Local distributor roads should be mapped as tertiary roads in OSM. Comparing https://catalogue.data.wa.gov.au/dataset/road-hierarchy dataset with current OSM data there is about 2000 roads that do not match above mentioned criteria (of which 1500 are local distributors, so higher classification roads are mapped very good according to gov data). Correcting road hierarchy on these roads seems reasonable, so all the data will then be unified, but I would appreciate your thoughts about this first. It would be nice if mappers from WA can give their thoughts about this. This can be done in a week and does not require some huge data correction but will correct routing in whole Western Australia. Some examples: https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=21/-31.5701521/116.479 Toodyay Road is a State Route 50, leading to Perth, and it is mapped as primary road, but Northam-Toodyay Road is a State Route 120, leading to Northam, and it is mapped as secondary. Both look the same and are state route roads, so this one should also be primary, especially because when it enters Northam it is already mapped as primary. Following this route, you will find that Forrest Street is set as trunk which is wrong because it becomes trunk from Peel Terrace - Taylor Street junction. https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=22/-32.89686974020933/115.90544892845668 Here Willowdale Road should be secondary or not? https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=22/-32.89686974020933/115.90544892845668 Here Nanga Road changes classification on Murray Bridge, but is should keep it as secondary? Thanks, Aleksandar ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Road classification in AUS
Like Warin mentioned, you have government data which indicates roads priority. For NSW that is LPI NSW Basemap, for other territories shp of routes. It is not a deal breaker, but it would be nice to unify the data. Warin example for tertiary roads is just one of them but great one, because if you have two parallel streets, mapper can decide which one road is more important than another just because he/she is using it more frequently. This does not mean that it is of greater importance. Government is the one making the roads so they plan flow of traffic to be as best/fast/safe as it can. Therefore, road classification is important. If you plan to go from point A to point B almost always you want to travel for less time. So, combination of road class, speed limit, road surface, turn restrictions... is very important in this case. This will make other users life easier. I'm not sure why other users are not using attributes/tags like lanes, surface, smoothness, maxspeed, toll and other attributes which would be of great help to figure out what is the capacity of the road. Yes, of course that I have checked guidelines, like for example 4wd only which is AU specific, etc. but still there is no unique opinion and guideline for this problem. It is up to the eye/opinion of mapper to set right class. Two-three mappers can have different opinions, but if you have 1000 opinions you make most frequent the right one. This is why I asked for more opinions and because you guys helped me to clear this one up, I will revert motorway to trunk. Still lot of questions remain, and I would like to keep this discussion open so we can make unique decisions. Government data is not "The Holly Bible" but it sure is a great indicator of road importance. I really appreciate that you all dig into this one. Thank you very much! ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Road classification in AUS
Thanks for the reply, I haven't followed Wiki blindly because it can be contradictory sometimes, that's the reason why I'm asking these questions here. Also, I think that gov routes are there to indicate importance of the road and flow of traffic. I would personally wait for couple of more opinions regarding this before reverting suggested road classification. If there are any local mapper for these areas It would be great if they could turn into conversation to give an opinion? Thanks, Aleksandar ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
[talk-au] Road classification in AUS
Hi all, My name is Aleksandar Matejevic, I work for Microsoft OSM Editorial team. In order to make the best decision in classifying roads across Australia, I need some help. In government data and on signposts you can find on mapillary and/or open street cam, you can track route numbers. I found out that routes mostly consist of: M route - motorways A route - trunks B route - primary roads C route - secondary roads As long you map in non-urban area this is 99.99% true, but when you map into city area it starts to get confusing. On this wiki page https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Highways_in_Australia there is no real explanation how to classify AUS roads in OSM If you strictly follow this page: https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:highway than you should change road classification several times on the same route way. Therefore I have a couple of questions: 1. Do you change the classification of highway on the motorway route into trunk through the city because it does not have a physical barrier in between (not restricted access) or do you keep it as motorway because of consistency? 2. If we were to change the road classification several times during one route way, should we ignore segments that are less than 3km (for example motorway going through minor city in which it has a quality of trunk)? 3. Can motorway have some traffic signals when passing through city? 4. How to classify State routes (for example in Melbourne)? Best regards, Aleksandar ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
