Re: [Talk-it] GPS map of Piemonte from CTRN and OSM data

[Kay F. Jahnke]

Hi group!

I've made an updated version of my GPS map of the Piedmont from CTRN and 
OSM data. I've updated the OSM data and modified the map style slightly 
to make the map easier to read on the GPS. Sadly, the old link broke 
with the update, so here is the new download link:


http://ubuntuone.com/6v3TLg5Z0JJQvRQ2xaWrWt

The initial publication of the map last year did not elicit much echo, 
so I assume that everyone was happy with the map as it is - rather than 
assuming no one has looked at it ;-)


Still - comments are welcome. And if anyone has a good idea who might 
want to host the map, I'd like to hear it. My current way of using my 
ubuntu one account is a bit cumbersome. And if any of you has a spare 
moment to announce the map in italian, this might also help. I'd rather 
not bother you with mine.


Kay


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Re: [Talk-it] GPS map of Piemonte from CTRN and OSM data

[Kay F. Jahnke]

On 10.11.2012 10:44, Maurizio Napolitano wrote:


Hi Kay
I like your job but i don't like the license used:
- cc by nc sa  is not an open data license
- the nc clausole isn't compatible with the idea behind the 
openstreetmap project
- the cc-by-sa (and nc) is not compatible with odbl (the new lincese 
used in osm)




I have spent some time trying to figure out an appropriate license. If I 
understand these licenses correctly, I am free to choose the license for 
the combined work (my GPS map), and I can chose it to be NC and SA. OSM 
data are only a small part of the effort. As far as I can tell, the ODBL 
gives me freedom to license the final product under licenses like 
CC-BY-NC-SA. Anyone wishing to use the OSM data themselves can just 
download them for themselves; I have not applied any modifications 
(created an adaptation) to the data - I'm only putting a layer on top.


The CTRN is CC-BY and therefore should grant me the same freedom of 
choice of license, as it's not SA. I have discussed the license issues, 
and I was advised to use CC-BY-NC-SA, because, in theory, it can hinder 
people who just download my map and then try and sell it to people who 
aren't clever enough to put 'GPS CTRN OSM' into a google search.


Nevertheless I am open to suggestions. Are you implying my choice of 
license is illegal? Or is it just that you don't like it? The main work 
in creating the map was converting the data to a joint format and 
writing styles to display the data on the GPS unit (like, drawing icons 
etc.), and I think I am entitled to use the license I've chosen.


Let me quote from the ODBL, since you say my map is 'not compatible' 
with it, and comment on it:



   *As long as you:*

 * /Attribute:/ You must attribute any public use of the database, or
   works produced from the database, in the manner specified in the
   ODbL. For any use or redistribution of the database, or works
   produced from it, you must make clear to others the license of the
   database and keep intact any notices on the original database

- I attribute by displaying the standard OSM attribution link on the 
splash screen of the GPS davice on loading the map. Generally this is 
deemed acceptable and the done thing.


 * /Share-Alike:/ If you publicly use any adapted version of this
   database, or works produced from an adapted database, you must also
   offer that adapted database under the ODbL.

- I have not adapted the data; I have only used the data. AFAICT this 
does not count as an adaptation. I think my work is a 'combined work', 
or a 'Collective Database'. This is defined thusly in the full legal 
text of the ODBL:


"Collective Database" -- Means this Database in unmodified form as part 
of a collection of independent databases in themselves that together are 
assembled into a collective whole. A work that constitutes a Collective 
Database will not be considered a Derivative Database.


Further down it says:

4.5 Limits of Share Alike. The requirements of Section 4.4 do not apply 
in the following:


  a. For the avoidance of doubt, You are not required to license 
Collective Databases under this License if You incorporate this Database 
or a Derivative Database in the collection, but this License still 
applies to this Database or a Derivative Database as a part of the 
Collective Database;


If anyone splits my map to use the OSM tiles themselves (which are 
pretty useless outside the context of the styles and TYP I use in my 
map) they are free to do so, and the README clearly states what license 
the components are under.


 * /Keep open:/ If you redistribute the database, or an adapted version
   of it, then you may use technological measures that restrict the
   work (such as DRM) as long as you also redistribute a version
   without such measures.

- Same here. Since I'm not using an adaptation but a derivative work, 
using CC-BY-NC-SA on the final product should be correct.




if your goal is improve openstreetmap, your choiche of license is not good



OSM is improved by contribution of data. To gather these data in the 
field, precise GPS maps are a great help. The GPS map creation tools 
were essential to get the project off the ground, so that FIX-ME data 
etc. could be seen on the GPS device. By offering an OSM layer on top of 
the CTRN I am helping the community to map more efficiently (At least I 
hope so). I can't see your point. Anyone can load and use the map, for 
free. What they do with it is up to them, as long as they don't violate 
the license. It doesn't get much more liberal than that. What do you 
think would be a 'good' license for a GPS map?



I any case i respect you for your job and i'm sure that you know what 
you can obtain with this license




I hope I have been able to clarify why I have licensed the map as I 
have. Thank you for your encouragement. I am not a lawyer, and the whole 
licensing issue is, to me, a waste of time. Nevertheless, to allow the 
community to sha

Re: [Talk-it] GPS map of Piemonte from CTRN and OSM data

[Maurizio Napolitano]

Hi Kay
I like your job but i don't like the license used:
- cc by nc sa  is not an open data license
- the nc clausole isn't compatible with the idea behind the openstreetmap
project
- the cc-by-sa (and nc) is not compatible with odbl (the new lincese used
in osm)

if your goal is improve openstreetmap, your choiche of license is not good

I any case i respect you for your job and i'm sure that you know what you
can obtain with this license

Ps: next friday and saturday there is the national italian conference about
openstreetmap in Torino :)
You are welcome also with a presentation of your job
Il giorno 10/nov/2012 09:51, "Kay F. Jahnke" <_...@yahoo.com> ha scritto:

> Dear members of the ML!
>
> Since I'm new on the list, let me introduce myself first: my name is Kay,
> I've been contributing to OSM for some time now as user kfj:
>
> http://www.openstreetmap.org/**user/kfj
>
> I am german, but I spend much time in the Piedmont, and this is where I do
> my mapping. My italian is clumsy, so I write in english.
>
> I have created a GPS vector map of the Piedmont. The map is intended
> mainly for hiking and similar outdoor activities; I have also found it
> useful for mapping. It is a synopsis of the CTRN vettoriale 1:10.000
> (1991-2005) and OSM data. It's in garmin image format and runs on my etrex
> vista hcx, but it should also run on other GPS units using the same data
> format. The map is currently at beta stage, so I have decided to offer it
> to a limited audience for evaluation. While I have processed the whole area
> covered by the CTRN, I have also made a smaller map of just the northern
> tip of the piemontese territory. This smaller section may serve to
> establish that the map will function on your side - the complete map weighs
> in at some 300MB, so the amount of traffic needed just to find out it
> doesn't work for you after all would be a waste of resources. You can find
> the sample map here:
>
> http://ubuntuone.com/**70ApLzr7jlglmg8BVl9ldN
>
> and the complete map here:
>
> http://ubuntuone.com/**6wok0LEk30quYb3ontLs8R
>
> These files are zip-compressed folders containing the map (in garmin.img
> format; I trust you know what to do with such a file) plus a README and
> some files picked from the CTRN data.
>
> If you just want to know more about the technicalities of the map, you can
> download the README file separately from here:
>
> http://ubuntuone.com/**0An1JJJwgsrqtm6YleYnBy
>
> I release the maps under CC-BY-NC-SA license, see
>
> http://creativecommons.org/**licenses/by-nc-sa/3.0/
>
> I'd appreciate comments - especially concerning the usability on various
> GPS devices and also of grave problems with the maps, but I can't promise
> to fix reported bugs as my resources are limited.
>
> The technical details can be found in the README accompanying the map. So
> far I haven't published my own tool chain - a set of shell scripts and the
> various styles and TYP file. I intend to do so eventually, to allow
> interested parties to emulate and improve my work, but I'd prefer to have
> some feedback first.
>
> This mail was initially sent to talk-it-piemonte, where it was suggested
> that it should be posted to talk-it as well.
>
> I've had the first reports coming in already, and one piece of good news
> is that the map runs on the c62 as well. A word of caution: if you install
> the full map after the sample map, you'll have to delete the sample. Both
> together won't work, I assume this is because I used the same product ID
> for both. On the etrex which can't handle multiple maps this isn't an
> issue. Eventually the sample map will be taken offline.
>
> Kay F. Jahnke
>
>
>
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