Re: [Talk-ko] Use of questionable imagery in Korea
Paul Norman also has complained that nobody has contacted the DWG. https://github.com/openstreetmap/openstreetmap-website/issues/1464#issuecomment-282268051 I guess this is because there is no organizational structure in the Korean OSM community (yet). No IRL meetings, no roles, no responsiblities, maybe not even a common language. As everyone can see discussions on talk-ko happen to be mainly in English, so most mombers are "expats" me included, and I am even not any more in Korea. my 2ct.. On 2017년 02월 23일 21:00, Simon Poole wrote: Just a couple of notes on the use of the VWorld imagery: * when you experience use of questionable sources in a larger way, please inform the Data Working Group (d...@osmfoundation.org) and take action without too much delay. These problems tend to get larger, not smaller with time. * please point out the use of problematic sources via changeset comments to the mappers in question and point out that they are doing nobody a favour. * while not speaking for the DWG, I suspect that due to the touchy nature of this specific source we will want to redact the edits (which removes them from history too) so likely it doesn't make sense to revert them manually. As the changesets in question are easy to identify this should not be a larger problem. Simon ___ Talk-ko mailing list Talk-ko@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ko
Re: [Talk-ko] Use of questionable imagery in Korea
Just to be clear: a report to the DWG needs neither meetings, roles, responsibilities or a common language (well it is likely that a report in English will be easier to understand, but that is about it). I realize that there might be a cultural hurdle, but any OSM contributor can and should, if other avenues have not worked (naturally we all prefer if things can be fixed locally and need not be escalated), report use of sources that we do not have permission to use. Simon Am 24.02.2017 um 12:53 schrieb Max: > Paul Norman also has complained that nobody has contacted the DWG. > https://github.com/openstreetmap/openstreetmap-website/issues/1464#issuecomment-282268051 > I guess this is because there is no organizational structure in the > Korean OSM community (yet). No IRL meetings, no roles, no > responsiblities, maybe not even a common language. As everyone can see > discussions on talk-ko happen to be mainly in English, so most mombers > are "expats" me included, and I am even not any more in Korea. > my 2ct.. > > > On 2017년 02월 23일 21:00, Simon Poole wrote: >> Just a couple of notes on the use of the VWorld imagery: >> >> * when you experience use of questionable sources in a larger way, >> please inform the Data Working Group (d...@osmfoundation.org) and >> take action without too much delay. These problems tend to get >> larger, not smaller with time. >> * please point out the use of problematic sources via changeset >> comments to the mappers in question and point out that they are >> doing nobody a favour. >> * while not speaking for the DWG, I suspect that due to the touchy >> nature of this specific source we will want to redact the edits >> (which removes them from history too) so likely it doesn't make >> sense to revert them manually. As the changesets in question are >> easy to identify this should not be a larger problem. >> >> Simon >> > > ___ > Talk-ko mailing list > Talk-ko@openstreetmap.org > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ko signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature ___ Talk-ko mailing list Talk-ko@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ko
Re: [Talk-ko] Use of questionable imagery in Korea
Simon, off cause you are right. I was not the one finding out about the vworld image usage. I am not patrolling OSM, I don't even know the tools how to do it. I don't feel a responsibility for Korea nor do I feel I can speak for OSM Korea, because it doesn't really exist. I only heard about it here on the list and thought a issue in the ID bugreacker is a good idea. However I think this situation is a good opportunity and an experience to learn from. We can create the structures to make sure this can't happen again. Or at least raise the awareness. I have a few thoughts. Fist let me try an asessment of the situation for those from outside: 1. OSM in Korea is in a quite dire state. There are only very few contibutors, the quality of data is low, Most of it still stems from an import that is very old. Village POI are usually so off that it's impossible to know which village has which name without local knowledge. Junctions are imported as lone points, often with steets missing. Bridges too. The language is a mess, with "English" and Korean mixed in brakets ((and double brackets too)). Half-translations such as "name=새마을11교(Sae Village 11 Gyo)"(sic) 2. Bing Satellite imagery is not available in big parts of the country. https://www.openstreetmap.org/edit#map=16/37.1364/128.2107 Mapbox Satellite often only in B/W, cloudy covered or low-res https://www.openstreetmap.org/edit#map=13/38.0416/128.2093 3. Commercial Map providers like Naver and Daum on the other hand are extremely detailed, up to date including even streetview from bicycle tracks and such. 4. The OSM community is very loose to say the least. I don't think anyone knows someone else IRL. There is the mailinglist with some months of 0 emails. It consists largely of expats and most posts are in English. --- In this situation, now we have suddenly new users contributing a lot of detail http://osmcha.mapbox.com/46332326/ But they are not reacting on changeset comments or direct messages, maybe because of a language barrier. Here my thoughts: 1. Is it somehow possible to not scare those away, now that their contributions will be reverted? Is there a way to say: "Thank you for your contribution, unfortunately we had to delete you edits because of legal problems from derived maps from unlicensed satellite images. But we want you to stay in our community"? 2. How to address the teenagers and Pokemon Go users with a lot of time and turn their obsession into something that is for the common good. (honestly that is what OSM is for me personally: Procrastination, but with the added bonus of doing something for mankind, compare this to playing candy crush.) 3. Should we embrace those kids better? Maybe having a booth at a games convention where pokemon users go? 4. Should OSM Korea make an effort to become some sort of organization? Or would that lead to more problems even? Around Daegu I noticed that a lot of army bases are mapped, even with their names, which are completely censored on any other service. South Korea government and authorities might not find this funny. This is a very young democracy with the army and secret service having a lot of power. I think i remember a story that Revi has made some experiences here when he was editing wikipedia. my 2 1/2 ct. m. On 2017년 02월 24일 13:08, Simon Poole wrote: Just to be clear: a report to the DWG needs neither meetings, roles, responsibilities or a common language (well it is likely that a report in English will be easier to understand, but that is about it). I realize that there might be a cultural hurdle, but any OSM contributor can and should, if other avenues have not worked (naturally we all prefer if things can be fixed locally and need not be escalated), report use of sources that we do not have permission to use. Simon Am 24.02.2017 um 12:53 schrieb Max: Paul Norman also has complained that nobody has contacted the DWG. https://github.com/openstreetmap/openstreetmap-website/issues/1464#issuecomment-282268051 I guess this is because there is no organizational structure in the Korean OSM community (yet). No IRL meetings, no roles, no responsiblities, maybe not even a common language. As everyone can see discussions on talk-ko happen to be mainly in English, so most mombers are "expats" me included, and I am even not any more in Korea. my 2ct.. On 2017년 02월 23일 21:00, Simon Poole wrote: Just a couple of notes on the use of the VWorld imagery: * when you experience use of questionable sources in a larger way, please inform the Data Working Group (d...@osmfoundation.org) and take action without too much delay. These problems tend to get larger, not smaller with time. * please point out the use of problematic sources via changeset comments to the mappers in question and point out that they are doing nobody a favour. * while not speaking for the DWG, I suspect that due to the touchy nature of this specif
Re: [Talk-ko] Questionable imagery
On 2017년 02월 24일 04:25, Changwoo Ryu wrote: Questions: 1. How comes? Where is the source? Is there a Korean blog entry, Naver cafe or other site that shows people how to do it? Can we stop it at the source? Could someone search this on naver/daum? I could not find it in a quick attempt, but there must be a source. I suspected this: http://blog.naver.com/PostView.nhn?blogId=8527l&logNo=220919020518 This 1-month old blog entry had information on adding VMS as imaginary source. So I have informed the author about the situation about two weeks ago, and the author has deleted the info. It's still there! on the previous page: http://blog.naver.com/PostView.nhn?blogId=8527l&logNo=220922543377 At least in the screenshots. M ___ Talk-ko mailing list Talk-ko@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ko
[Talk-ko] Another questionable source
re-sending because of my mistake on email address. Hello, I was discussing recent imagery issues with my friend, and he said there are another problematic imagery source he couldn't remember where he saw it (other than being OSM wiki). I did a quick search and found this edit[1] in **March 2012** which added a questionable source "National Spatial Information Portal"[2]. It was there until I removed[3] the section today. This source is obviously unacceptable for being copyrighted work of Government of Republic of Korea. Simon said about pointing them "it's no good" via changeset comment but I don't think it's useful here as the information was available since 2012, and I can't even assume how many changesets are based on this source. I have no idea where to start, so I'm starting by sending an email to talk-ko and DWG. [1]: https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/w/index.php?title=WikiProject_Korea&diff=751180&oldid=prev [2]: http://www.nsdi.go.kr/?menuno=3085 [3]: https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/w/index.php?title=WikiProject_Korea&type=revision&diff=1433558&oldid=1430516 Thanks, -- Yongmin Hong https://wp.revi.blog Please note that this address is list-only address and any non-mailing list mails will be treated as spam. Please use https://encrypt.to/0x947f156f16250de39788c3c35b625da5beff197a ___ Talk-ko mailing list Talk-ko@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ko
