Re: [talk-ph] Bacolod.
Here is a suggested compromise. Why don't we replace all the road names of unverified or suspected traces over there with FIXME's. (that way, they becomes temporary 'reference data' only) Then we send gpstogo(plus paper map) and my old garmin 76 gps to Bacolod, and make a game out of this situation. Bacolod volunteers will hunt down & RIDE/BIKE OVER all 'FIXME roads' & COLLECT additional POI's & streetnames along the way. Then we teach them how to upload traces (or just email back raw data for processing by more experienced osm users). We'll just make customized Bacolod gps map (for download), small enough to load even on older map-capable garmins like gpsmap76. I'll lend my extra bike mount (for use by bacolod mappers)... but they must return it back :-) If we can only replicate (similar) osm teams/groups in Bacolod and other key cities which meet and arrange EB's only regular basis to exchange ideas (like what we do in Metro Manila), then we will be able to cover the entire philippines much faster (the osm way). On Fri, Sep 10, 2010 at 12:09 AM, maning sambale wrote: > This is painful, but ultimately, we have to decide on this as a community. > > On Thu, Sep 9, 2010 at 1:49 PM, Jim Morgan wrote: > > That's a shame. Maybe we should lend them a GPS2go unit? > > > > Jim > > > > Axel Kollmorgen wrote, On Thursday, 09 September, 2010 01:16 AM: > >> i'm afraid most of the bacolod edits are still illegit. i did a short > >> analysis (of > >> http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=10.676&lon=122.952&zoom=12) in josm: > > > > ___ > > talk-ph mailing list > > talk-ph@openstreetmap.org > > http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ph > > > > > > -- > cheers, > maning > -- > "Freedom is still the most radical idea of all" -N.Branden > wiki: http://esambale.wikispaces.com/ > blog: http://epsg4253.wordpress.com/ > -- > > ___ > talk-ph mailing list > talk-ph@openstreetmap.org > http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ph > ___ talk-ph mailing list talk-ph@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ph
Re: [talk-ph] Bacolod.
This is painful, but ultimately, we have to decide on this as a community. On Thu, Sep 9, 2010 at 1:49 PM, Jim Morgan wrote: > That's a shame. Maybe we should lend them a GPS2go unit? > > Jim > > Axel Kollmorgen wrote, On Thursday, 09 September, 2010 01:16 AM: >> i'm afraid most of the bacolod edits are still illegit. i did a short >> analysis (of >> http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=10.676&lon=122.952&zoom=12) in josm: > > ___ > talk-ph mailing list > talk-ph@openstreetmap.org > http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ph > -- cheers, maning -- "Freedom is still the most radical idea of all" -N.Branden wiki: http://esambale.wikispaces.com/ blog: http://epsg4253.wordpress.com/ -- ___ talk-ph mailing list talk-ph@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ph
Re: [talk-ph] Bacolod.
That's a shame. Maybe we should lend them a GPS2go unit? Jim Axel Kollmorgen wrote, On Thursday, 09 September, 2010 01:16 AM: > i'm afraid most of the bacolod edits are still illegit. i did a short > analysis (of > http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=10.676&lon=122.952&zoom=12) in josm: ___ talk-ph mailing list talk-ph@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ph
Re: [talk-ph] Bacolod.
On 2010-09-08 13:31, maning sambale wrote: On Wed, Sep 8, 2010 at 12:56 PM, Jim Morgan wrote: Hey, someone's been busy in Bacolod. Good job! http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=10.666&lon=122.9535&zoom=14&layers=M Maybe this has been there for a while, but I only just noticed it ... Yes and there are very good traces this time: http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/MTBBCD/traces i'm afraid most of the bacolod edits are still illegit. i did a short analysis (of http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=10.676&lon=122.952&zoom=12) in josm: * authors Author# Objects % rgarchitorena 7632 36% hithere 4606 21% MTBBCD2148 10% gogols2119 10% jim1807 1118 5% BacolodCity525 2% trek 460 2% RQ70673449 2% Tobar 410 2% Ian Haylock366 2% Avelinosk 292 1% jiizal 281 1% 011266 240 1% BlueArrow 195 1% megarrucho 194 1% ianlopez1115 174 1% * details of top 5 authors user # traces first edit last edit editor rgarchitorena 0 2010-05-05 2010-05-18 josm (98), potlatch (41) hithere 2 2010-03-26 2010-05-27 josm (74), potlatch (115) MTBBCD 20 2010-03-26 2010-08-31 josm (31), potlatch (117) gogols 0 2010-02-19 2010-05-03 josm (99), potlatch (58) jim1807 0 2010-04-11 2010-05-02 josm (24), potlatch (66) * user "rgarchitorena" said he used josm to trace over copyrighted imagery [1] [1] http://www.mail-archive.com/t...@openstreetmap.org/msg27700.html * the 2 "traces" by hithere are no gps traces (too big, including a long stretch of coastline, no jags, stops, and other typical gps features), but converted from something else. looking at some (josm) edits of these top 5 users (and overlaying them with google maps), the 0 numbers of traces, the dates of first and especially last edits (eugene's "Bacolod is still a big problem" thread [2] was started on 2010-05-08, some emails were sent - and suddenly 4 of the top 5 contributors stop editing), the commit messages - makes me believe that most of the edits of rgarchitorena, hithere, gogols, jim1807 - or 72% plus (that's only looking at the first 5 users) of bacolod edits are illegit. [2] http://www.mail-archive.com/talk-ph@openstreetmap.org/msg02104.html ax ___ talk-ph mailing list talk-ph@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ph
Re: [talk-ph] Bacolod.
Yes and there are very good traces this time: http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/MTBBCD/traces On Wed, Sep 8, 2010 at 12:56 PM, Jim Morgan wrote: > Hey, someone's been busy in Bacolod. Good job! > > http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=10.666&lon=122.9535&zoom=14&layers=M > > Maybe this has been there for a while, but I only just noticed it ... > > Jim > > ___ > talk-ph mailing list > talk-ph@openstreetmap.org > http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ph > -- cheers, maning -- "Freedom is still the most radical idea of all" -N.Branden wiki: http://esambale.wikispaces.com/ blog: http://epsg4253.wordpress.com/ -- ___ talk-ph mailing list talk-ph@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ph
Re: [talk-ph] Bacolod is still a big problem
On Fri, May 21, 2010 at 11:50 AM, maning sambale wrote: > 2. Bacolod has good traces uploaded not much, but it seems to show > very good coverage at least in the city center. See this image of > JOSM: > http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3324/4623396303_e2f6be5fe6_o.jpg > Hmmm, are you sure these are just GPS traces? The image seems to show the nodes in the OSM database. The sawtooth coastline is quite visible. ___ talk-ph mailing list talk-ph@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ph
Re: [talk-ph] Bacolod is still a big problem
Hi, Just an update on the responses of Bacolod mappers. 1. Most mappers replied that they are using GPS and local knowledge. (see the responses below) 2. Bacolod has good traces uploaded not much, but it seems to show very good coverage at least in the city center. See this image of JOSM: http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3324/4623396303_e2f6be5fe6_o.jpg 3. There is a good number of traces from other sites which one contributor said he/she used. http://www.wikiloc.com/wikiloc/map.do#lt=10.71630665&ln=122.96557086&z=6 4. They seem to have a group doing the edits, hence, the explosion of edits in the past months. 5. Apart from one user, the mappers did not view any hostility with my message. Given the above observations, I do think its fair we give them the "give the benefit of the doubt". Of course anyone can say otherwise. If you have more inquiries regarding their edits, I suggest you send them a message or as Andre suggested: "a phone call with tone of voice would resolve things as e-mails seem threatening to him/her". transcript below === It might be someone else's work I'm particular with copy right issues and I'm using my own data from my GPS and from time to time me and my friends share tracks from our ride. I also might have contributed in some area where its a common knowledge that such POI or street exist. I was using a GPS. I'm no longer contributing since my GPS was stolen together with my bike. I understand we need to keep OSM free from copyright infringements so please, don't worry. My edits mostly consist of POI's and re-tags. These POI's, tags, and a couple of road sections are all built from my memory. I know this is not convincing enough but I assure you these are not taken from anywhere else. However, I must admit I have copied something from googlemaps: http://osm.org/go/4n8spzaPY-- I'll be deleting and replacing this section with a POI as soon as I finish sending you this message. (which he already removed) Yes there seems to be a growing number of people here at Bacolod who are interested in mapping. The only problem is that at the moment its not so well organize and OSM is not that popular. But I think in time we'll be able to form a proper group especially if they realize the benefits of it. Yes, I'll spread the word to people I know. Thank You. hay nako syempre GPS bakit ano ba ang ginagamit mo? baka ikaw ang gumagawa nga anomalia pina pasa mo lang sa akin. wala ako masyadong alam kaya nga naghihintay lang ako ng mga daan na gina gawa tapos eniedit ko lang lang. bakit ang dami mong alam sa mga tungkol sa mga ganyan. And about that contributor who admitted that he took his data from google, aparently it was an account made for bacolod city where in different users can log in and use it but apparently it did not work out since some think it was a joke. But not all of those who use it thinks that way. Hope this clarify your doubts about us in Bacolod. Rest assured my edits are genuine (not from copy right material) and some are from my memory. I'm using my GPS device my friend and some are contributions from the website itself. Im using my GPS and some donated and downloaded GPS traces. I have no idea about this edits. perhaps you've mistaken me of somebody. anyway it might be that I have contributed to such edit but can't exactly remember which part but just to let you know I always use a GPS device regarding my edits and you might also want to check wikiloc for there are some gps track and are free for download. hope this has helped your concern. http://www.wikiloc.com/wikiloc/view.do?id=882587 this might help since i also take some of my edits on this site i hope this helps. On Mon, May 17, 2010 at 9:52 AM, maning sambale wrote: > On Sun, May 16, 2010 at 6:58 PM, Ray wrote: >> On the other hand pls. be aware that not everybody want's to upload this >> gps tracks due to privacy concerns or some body could find out about >> one's nice and quiet camping place. > I do respect if people are concerned with privacy issues regarding GPS > tracks. In my case, I simply delete trackpoints for areas I don't > want shared to OSM. However, I am finding more good uses with > publicly available traces other than tracing roads or proving > authenticity of edits. > > http://epsg4253.wordpress.com/2010/01/21/eastern-bulacan-pampanga-and-nueva-ecija-imagery-update-in-openstreetmap/ > > > -- > cheers, > maning > -- > "Freedom is still the most radical idea of all" -N.Branden > wiki: http://esambale.wikispaces.com/ > blog: http://epsg4253.wordpress.com/ > -- > -- cheers, maning -- "Freedom is still the most radical idea of all" -N.Branden wiki: http://esambale.wikispaces.com/ blog: http://epsg4253.wordpress.com/ -- ___
Re: [talk-ph] Bacolod is still a big problem
On Sun, May 16, 2010 at 6:58 PM, Ray wrote: > On the other hand pls. be aware that not everybody want's to upload this > gps tracks due to privacy concerns or some body could find out about > one's nice and quiet camping place. I do respect if people are concerned with privacy issues regarding GPS tracks. In my case, I simply delete trackpoints for areas I don't want shared to OSM. However, I am finding more good uses with publicly available traces other than tracing roads or proving authenticity of edits. http://epsg4253.wordpress.com/2010/01/21/eastern-bulacan-pampanga-and-nueva-ecija-imagery-update-in-openstreetmap/ -- cheers, maning -- "Freedom is still the most radical idea of all" -N.Branden wiki: http://esambale.wikispaces.com/ blog: http://epsg4253.wordpress.com/ -- ___ talk-ph mailing list talk-ph@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ph
Re: [talk-ph] Bacolod is still a big problem
Many people already argued that copying from aerial imagery is not governed by copyright law. Case law proved it: http://www.systemed.net/blog/?p=100 However, Google terms of use explicitly do not allow this: http://epsg4253.wordpress.com/2009/03/17/google-mapmaker-and-openstreetmap/ That said, I echo Eugene's statement. Do not test this slippery and complicated legal argument in OSM. We maybe impatient with the progress of OSM in many areas in the country. But in due time, we can get it done the OSM way. -- cheers, maning -- "Freedom is still the most radical idea of all" -N.Branden wiki: http://esambale.wikispaces.com/ blog: http://epsg4253.wordpress.com/ -- ___ talk-ph mailing list talk-ph@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ph
Re: [talk-ph] Bacolod is still a big problem
Hi, everyone. Thank you for your comments. I do appreciate them all, and I respect you all for giving them freely. I will, of course, follow OSM guidelines to the letter, and will in no way jeopardize all of the hard work that has been done before my very recent arrival. I am, like many, simply frustrated at how copyright is used at a weapon and how it does, in fact, stifle creativity and advancements in many areas. You are all aware of this, of course. Best to you all, Craig. On Sun, May 16, 2010 at 5:11 AM, Totor wrote: > Hi Craig, > > I saw this question several times here and there and can not agree > completely. > > I think that Facts/Locations can not be copyrighted indeed, but maps can. > > It takes quite a lot of work to represent the locations of items accurately > on maps. > It's much easier to copy from an existing map. (Why would some OSM mappers > be tempted if this was not the case?) So it seems reasonable to me to > protect this work by a copyright. > When you copy from a map, even small portions, you don't copy facts, but a > more or less faithful representation someone else made. > > If you copy Google maps, you even copying "someone's imagination" ! > Here Google has several non existing roads on the map : > > http://sautter.com/map/?zoom=17&lat=10.3468&lon=123.91864&layers=B0TF > Even comparing just the location should not be done, since the map seems > offset... > > The above is also true for the satellite images (although maybe less > obviously). Several years ago, I saw a duplicate parallel road on the border > of stitched images (Each of them ending in a blurry house on opposite sides > at some distance). I was unable to find it now, but I'm sure you'll be able > to find some artifacts if you look for them. > > Cheers, > > Totor > > > > > --- On *Sun, 5/16/10, Craig * wrote: > > > From: Craig > Subject: Re: [talk-ph] Bacolod is still a big problem > To: "Andre Marcelo-Tanner" > Cc: talk-ph@openstreetmap.org > Date: Sunday, May 16, 2010, 4:09 AM > > Maybe there is something fundamental that I don't get, but, let me ask a > question, please. How is it possible that a location of a road or building > or anything can be copyrighted? I understand not copying entire maps, etc., > from a source and then claiming it as your own is contrary to copyright, but > "facts", and a road location is a fact, not something created from someone's > imagination. > [...] > > > > ___ > talk-ph mailing list > talk-ph@openstreetmap.org > http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ph > > ___ talk-ph mailing list talk-ph@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ph
Re: [talk-ph] Bacolod is still a big problem
Hi Craig, I saw this question several times here and there and can not agree completely. I think that Facts/Locations can not be copyrighted indeed, but maps can. It takes quite a lot of work to represent the locations of items accurately on maps. It's much easier to copy from an existing map. (Why would some OSM mappers be tempted if this was not the case?) So it seems reasonable to me to protect this work by a copyright. When you copy from a map, even small portions, you don't copy facts, but a more or less faithful representation someone else made. If you copy Google maps, you even copying "someone's imagination" ! Here Google has several non existing roads on the map : http://sautter.com/map/?zoom=17&lat=10.3468&lon=123.91864&layers=B0TF Even comparing just the location should not be done, since the map seems offset... The above is also true for the satellite images (although maybe less obviously). Several years ago, I saw a duplicate parallel road on the border of stitched images (Each of them ending in a blurry house on opposite sides at some distance). I was unable to find it now, but I'm sure you'll be able to find some artifacts if you look for them. Cheers, Totor --- On Sun, 5/16/10, Craig wrote: From: Craig Subject: Re: [talk-ph] Bacolod is still a big problem To: "Andre Marcelo-Tanner" Cc: talk-ph@openstreetmap.org Date: Sunday, May 16, 2010, 4:09 AM Maybe there is something fundamental that I don't get, but, let me ask a question, please. How is it possible that a location of a road or building or anything can be copyrighted? I understand not copying entire maps, etc., from a source and then claiming it as your own is contrary to copyright, but "facts", and a road location is a fact, not something created from someone's imagination. [...] ___ talk-ph mailing list talk-ph@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ph
Re: [talk-ph] Bacolod is still a big problem
Hi, this topic is discussed every now and then. Facts are free, but you can't use the help of copyright protected material. If you only copy one house/street/whatever maybe that doesn't matter. But what if all of us are doing this? You end up with a 100% copy of the map and than even you will agree, that this is a no go. So where to drew the line? It's impossible and that's why the community agrees not to use copyright protected maps even for a poi to copy. What you can to with this maps is comparing for areas which need attention, go there and do your mappings. Or use openstreetbugs to report them, so others can pick up. OSM license allows anyone to use our data for any purpose and without the need to give anything back, even sell it and make money out of your/our work. They only have to mention the license. That's the open part in OSM. But you can't expect to do everyone like this and we respect this. Take a look at the OSM history, e.g. http://www.geofabrik.de/en/gallery/history/index.html It's amazing what has been done only with free sources or donated date in this short periode of time. We should be proud of it and keep the OSM free from data of copyright protected sources. If there are white spaces, give it some time and somebody will do traces and close them. We need more mappers. Also note, that google and others can't give away what they don't have. The images on goolge maps/earth are bought from other companys which own the copyright - you can see the company's name on the map. Maybe this will change if they are using the images from their own satellite. AFAIK they wanted to wait with updating gmaps when they have images from the whole world. IMHO they should have them already - we'll see. There is even an difference in the yahoo images free to copy and the ones on the yahoo webpage which are not free to copy. See http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Yahoo!_Aerial_Imagery On the other hand pls. be aware that not everybody want's to upload this gps tracks due to privacy concerns or some body could find out about one's nice and quiet camping place. Questions about anonymizing gps data arise on the user mailing list form time to time. But in this case ppl. should respond different to questions about the source. Greetings Ray Craig wrote: > Maybe there is something fundamental that I don't get, but, let me ask a > question, please. How is it possible that a location of a road or building > or anything can be copyrighted? I understand not copying entire maps, etc., > from a source and then claiming it as your own is contrary to copyright, but > "facts", and a road location is a fact, not something created from someone's > imagination. > > Google itself allows businesses to use tools to correct the location of that > business if it is in error on Google's maps. Nobody is copying and > distributing Google satellite images, nor are they distributing other Google > properties. > > I think this worry about copyright violations is a knee-jerk reaction and > would not stand up in a court of law. Big companies with big law firms > backing them up is very intimidating, but that doesn't change the fact that > you should be able to refer to a Google map or image to confirm a road > location or other geographical entity. I see this as fair use. > > Also, thousands of people around the world have contributed to mapping for > Google through efforts around the Haiti and Chile earthquakes. I'd say > copyright is a bit dicey in that situation because Google only facilitated > the mapping. Also, thousands upon thousands of buildings have been placed in > Google Earth, thanks only to users like us. Myself, I have contributed > mapping and 3D buildings. > > Is OSM open to the world? If it is, then Google can use OSM data. If Google > sued OSM for improving maps using "Google's data" only to integrate that > into their own products, that would be major hypocrisy. > > I'm sick of corporations creating this atmosphere of "we're going to sue > your asses off" at the drop of a hat. It's a sad thing, and well-minded > people like those contributing to a better world via OSM and other similar > projects should not have the spectre of litigation hanging over their heads. ___ talk-ph mailing list talk-ph@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ph
Re: [talk-ph] Bacolod is still a big problem
Hi Craig, Good points overall. I agree that some of these copyright scaremongering isn't valid and that possibly in some jurisdictions (probably the US, but not the UK), copying facts from a map image is OK. But for everyone's information, OSM chooses to be on the safe and cautious side. Unless something is black-and-white (we can definitely trace/copy or definitely not) the project has decided to adopt a strict no-copying policy. It's possible that someone can test the legal waters by bringing to court (in some limited jurisdiction) some of the issues, but OSM is not the place to force the issue. As for Google itself, Ed Parsons, their Geospatial Technologist, has hinted[1] that tracing stuff from Google's own or licensed data and placing it into OSM is a no-no. That's why we are alarmed if we see roads that match Google's imagery (especially if they match the extent of under-construction roads). [1] http://www.edparsons.com/2009/09/liberating-your-my-maps-data/ Eugene On Sun, May 16, 2010 at 12:09 PM, Craig wrote: > Maybe there is something fundamental that I don't get, but, let me ask a > question, please. How is it possible that a location of a road or building > or anything can be copyrighted? I understand not copying entire maps, etc., > from a source and then claiming it as your own is contrary to copyright, but > "facts", and a road location is a fact, not something created from someone's > imagination. > > Google itself allows businesses to use tools to correct the location of > that business if it is in error on Google's maps. Nobody is copying and > distributing Google satellite images, nor are they distributing other Google > properties. > > I think this worry about copyright violations is a knee-jerk reaction and > would not stand up in a court of law. Big companies with big law firms > backing them up is very intimidating, but that doesn't change the fact that > you should be able to refer to a Google map or image to confirm a road > location or other geographical entity. I see this as fair use. > > Also, thousands of people around the world have contributed to mapping for > Google through efforts around the Haiti and Chile earthquakes. I'd say > copyright is a bit dicey in that situation because Google only facilitated > the mapping. Also, thousands upon thousands of buildings have been placed in > Google Earth, thanks only to users like us. Myself, I have contributed > mapping and 3D buildings. > > Is OSM open to the world? If it is, then Google can use OSM data. If Google > sued OSM for improving maps using "Google's data" only to integrate that > into their own products, that would be major hypocrisy. > > I'm sick of corporations creating this atmosphere of "we're going to sue > your asses off" at the drop of a hat. It's a sad thing, and well-minded > people like those contributing to a better world via OSM and other similar > projects should not have the spectre of litigation hanging over their heads. > > Take care, all. > Craig. > Anyway, I'm not here to argue a point or start a flame war. > > On Sat, May 15, 2010 at 8:35 PM, Andre Marcelo-Tanner > wrote: > >> How can he draw the exact road alignments on a blank map just from what >> he knows. >> Yes he may know what road is here and there but he can not trace it from >> Google Maps or another copyrighted map source. He can not even align it >> by comparing it to Google maps and adjusting. >> Sure he can add POIs from memory, but road alignment and position is >> something that requires a map source with permission or GPS traces >> correct? >> Pls explain to him how if there are maps copied from a copyright source, >> OSM can be sued and shutdown by a lawsuit, that is why the organization >> is very careful and vigilant about its mapping sources. >> He wouldn't want OSM to be shut down right? >> >> >> ___ >> talk-ph mailing list >> talk-ph@openstreetmap.org >> http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ph >> > > > ___ > talk-ph mailing list > talk-ph@openstreetmap.org > http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ph > > -- http://vaes9.codedgraphic.com ___ talk-ph mailing list talk-ph@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ph
Re: [talk-ph] Bacolod is still a big problem
Maybe there is something fundamental that I don't get, but, let me ask a question, please. How is it possible that a location of a road or building or anything can be copyrighted? I understand not copying entire maps, etc., from a source and then claiming it as your own is contrary to copyright, but "facts", and a road location is a fact, not something created from someone's imagination. Google itself allows businesses to use tools to correct the location of that business if it is in error on Google's maps. Nobody is copying and distributing Google satellite images, nor are they distributing other Google properties. I think this worry about copyright violations is a knee-jerk reaction and would not stand up in a court of law. Big companies with big law firms backing them up is very intimidating, but that doesn't change the fact that you should be able to refer to a Google map or image to confirm a road location or other geographical entity. I see this as fair use. Also, thousands of people around the world have contributed to mapping for Google through efforts around the Haiti and Chile earthquakes. I'd say copyright is a bit dicey in that situation because Google only facilitated the mapping. Also, thousands upon thousands of buildings have been placed in Google Earth, thanks only to users like us. Myself, I have contributed mapping and 3D buildings. Is OSM open to the world? If it is, then Google can use OSM data. If Google sued OSM for improving maps using "Google's data" only to integrate that into their own products, that would be major hypocrisy. I'm sick of corporations creating this atmosphere of "we're going to sue your asses off" at the drop of a hat. It's a sad thing, and well-minded people like those contributing to a better world via OSM and other similar projects should not have the spectre of litigation hanging over their heads. Take care, all. Craig. Anyway, I'm not here to argue a point or start a flame war. On Sat, May 15, 2010 at 8:35 PM, Andre Marcelo-Tanner wrote: > How can he draw the exact road alignments on a blank map just from what > he knows. > Yes he may know what road is here and there but he can not trace it from > Google Maps or another copyrighted map source. He can not even align it > by comparing it to Google maps and adjusting. > Sure he can add POIs from memory, but road alignment and position is > something that requires a map source with permission or GPS traces correct? > Pls explain to him how if there are maps copied from a copyright source, > OSM can be sued and shutdown by a lawsuit, that is why the organization > is very careful and vigilant about its mapping sources. > He wouldn't want OSM to be shut down right? > > > ___ > talk-ph mailing list > talk-ph@openstreetmap.org > http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ph > ___ talk-ph mailing list talk-ph@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ph
Re: [talk-ph] Bacolod is still a big problem
I know. :) But, judging from the way he/she treated Totor and Avelinosk, I assume that this is just the way he/she reacts to certain things. On Fri, May 14, 2010 at 9:05 AM, ianlopez wrote: > > Manila, we have a problem. MTBBCD is now pissed off ( > http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/MTBBCD/diary/10668 ). He's calling you out, > Maning (plus he/she misspelled your name) > > > Tony Montana: Me, I want what's coming to me. > Manny Ribera: Oh, well what's coming to you? > Tony Montana: The world, chico, and everything in it. > - > http://ianlopez1115.wordpress.com/ > > > --- On Thu, 5/13/10, maning sambale wrote: > > From: maning sambale > Subject: Re: [talk-ph] Bacolod is still a big problem > To: "OSM" > Date: Thursday, May 13, 2010, 8:35 PM > > http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/User:Maning/copyright_detection_notes#Bacolod_-_between_April_to_May_of_2010 > > let's wait and see. > > On Sat, May 8, 2010 at 1:55 PM, Eugene Alvin Villar wrote: > > I'm still seeing plenty of new editors and high editing activity in the > > Bacolod area. > > > > One example is this subdivision that was drawn in. The roads match the > > Google satellite imagery but there is no GPX trace to back it up: > > http://sautter.com/map/?zoom=16&lat=10.71804&lon=122.96763&layers=00B000TF > > > > ___ > > talk-ph mailing list > > talk-ph@openstreetmap.org > > http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ph > > > > > > > > -- > cheers, > maning > -- > "Freedom is still the most radical idea of all" -N.Branden > wiki: http://esambale.wikispaces.com/ > blog: http://epsg4253.wordpress.com/ > -- > > ___ > talk-ph mailing list > talk-ph@openstreetmap.org > http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ph > -- cheers, maning -- "Freedom is still the most radical idea of all" -N.Branden wiki: http://esambale.wikispaces.com/ blog: http://epsg4253.wordpress.com/ -- ___ talk-ph mailing list talk-ph@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ph
Re: [talk-ph] Bacolod is still a big problem
Manila, we have a problem. MTBBCD is now pissed off ( http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/MTBBCD/diary/10668 ). He's calling you out, Maning (plus he/she misspelled your name) Tony Montana: Me, I want what's coming to me. Manny Ribera: Oh, well what's coming to you? Tony Montana: The world, chico, and everything in it. - http://ianlopez1115.wordpress.com/ --- On Thu, 5/13/10, maning sambale wrote: From: maning sambale Subject: Re: [talk-ph] Bacolod is still a big problem To: "OSM" Date: Thursday, May 13, 2010, 8:35 PM http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/User:Maning/copyright_detection_notes#Bacolod_-_between_April_to_May_of_2010 let's wait and see. On Sat, May 8, 2010 at 1:55 PM, Eugene Alvin Villar wrote: > I'm still seeing plenty of new editors and high editing activity in the > Bacolod area. > > One example is this subdivision that was drawn in. The roads match the > Google satellite imagery but there is no GPX trace to back it up: > http://sautter.com/map/?zoom=16&lat=10.71804&lon=122.96763&layers=00B000TF > > ___ > talk-ph mailing list > talk-ph@openstreetmap.org > http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ph > > -- cheers, maning -- "Freedom is still the most radical idea of all" -N.Branden wiki: http://esambale.wikispaces.com/ blog: http://epsg4253.wordpress.com/ -- ___ talk-ph mailing list talk-ph@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ph ___ talk-ph mailing list talk-ph@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ph
Re: [talk-ph] Bacolod is still a big problem
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/User:Maning/copyright_detection_notes#Bacolod_-_between_April_to_May_of_2010 let's wait and see. On Sat, May 8, 2010 at 1:55 PM, Eugene Alvin Villar wrote: > I'm still seeing plenty of new editors and high editing activity in the > Bacolod area. > > One example is this subdivision that was drawn in. The roads match the > Google satellite imagery but there is no GPX trace to back it up: > http://sautter.com/map/?zoom=16&lat=10.71804&lon=122.96763&layers=00B000TF > > ___ > talk-ph mailing list > talk-ph@openstreetmap.org > http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ph > > -- cheers, maning -- "Freedom is still the most radical idea of all" -N.Branden wiki: http://esambale.wikispaces.com/ blog: http://epsg4253.wordpress.com/ -- ___ talk-ph mailing list talk-ph@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ph
Re: [talk-ph] Bacolod Being Vandalized by Large Dinosaur?
On Thu, Apr 1, 2010 at 1:48 AM, Andre Marcelo-Tanner wrote: > Also is Mr. Bacolod City > http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/BacolodCity/edits > and his super huge track real? > http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/BacolodCity/traces/653604 > > Didn't we just have an issue with Bacolod and undid everything there? > I talked with the BacolodCity user and I'd like to believe that the track is real. It's not the raw track but a collection of simplified tracks cleaned-up in a Garmin software called Training Center. If you look at the raw GPX file (it's XML after all), you'll see that there are many tracks in the GPX file. It just looks messy on the OSM page since all these tracks were connected end-to-end. This is a different case from the earlier Bacolod problem we had. ___ talk-ph mailing list talk-ph@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ph
Re: [talk-ph] Bacolod Being Vandalized by Large Dinosaur?
That's just sad. On Thursday, 01 April, 2010 01:48 AM, Andre Marcelo-Tanner wrote: > This person seems to be having fun drawing on the map: > http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/changeset/4287417 > > Also is Mr. Bacolod City http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/BacolodCity/edits > and his super huge track real? > http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/BacolodCity/traces/653604 > > Didn't we just have an issue with Bacolod and undid everything there? > ___ talk-ph mailing list talk-ph@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ph
Re: [talk-ph] Bacolod City again
Did anyone tried to contact the editors? On Sun, Mar 28, 2010 at 1:05 PM, Eugene Alvin Villar wrote: > Hi guys, > > Bacolod City is getting a lot of attention again recently: > http://osm.org/go/4n8s_J4S- > > What worries me is that there are four new accounts just editing in that > area: > http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/BacolodCity/edits (8-day-old account) > http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/hithere/edits (2-day-old account) > http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/MTBBCD/edits (10-hour-old account) > http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/trek/edits (7-hour-old account) > > The first user has a uploaded a GPX trace (quite messy too); the others have > not and are presumably tracing from the first user's. > > I'm comparing with Google Satellite and it don't see any vast similarities > so I guess we're safe there. > > I'm just quite curious about the sudden influx of activity there. Did > somebody conduct an OSM workshop there? > > > Eugene (osm:seav) > > > ___ > talk-ph mailing list > talk-ph@openstreetmap.org > http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ph > > -- cheers, maning -- "Freedom is still the most radical idea of all" -N.Branden wiki: http://esambale.wikispaces.com/ blog: http://epsg4253.wordpress.com/ -- ___ talk-ph mailing list talk-ph@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ph
Re: [talk-ph] Bacolod City again
Perhaps you've got time to look into this http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=14.94963&lon=120.08165&zoom=15&layers=B000FTFT too. Came across while tracing few uploaded gps tracks. On Sun, 2010-03-28 at 13:20 +0800, Eugene Alvin Villar wrote: > On second though, the GPX track is too artificial. I have to > investigate some more. > > > On Sun, Mar 28, 2010 at 1:05 PM, Eugene Alvin Villar > wrote: > Hi guys, > > Bacolod City is getting a lot of attention again recently: > http://osm.org/go/4n8s_J4S- > > What worries me is that there are four new accounts just > editing in that area: > http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/BacolodCity/edits (8-day-old > account) > http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/hithere/edits (2-day-old > account) > http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/MTBBCD/edits (10-hour-old > account) > http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/trek/edits (7-hour-old > account) > > The first user has a uploaded a GPX trace (quite messy too); > the others have not and are presumably tracing from the first > user's. > > I'm comparing with Google Satellite and it don't see any vast > similarities so I guess we're safe there. > > I'm just quite curious about the sudden influx of activity > there. Did somebody conduct an OSM workshop there? > > > Eugene (osm:seav) > > > > > -- > http://vaes9.codedgraphic.com > ___ > talk-ph mailing list > talk-ph@openstreetmap.org > http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ph ___ talk-ph mailing list talk-ph@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ph
Re: [talk-ph] Bacolod City again
On second though, the GPX track is too artificial. I have to investigate some more. On Sun, Mar 28, 2010 at 1:05 PM, Eugene Alvin Villar wrote: > Hi guys, > > Bacolod City is getting a lot of attention again recently: > http://osm.org/go/4n8s_J4S- > > What worries me is that there are four new accounts just editing in that > area: > http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/BacolodCity/edits (8-day-old account) > http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/hithere/edits (2-day-old account) > http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/MTBBCD/edits (10-hour-old account) > http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/trek/edits (7-hour-old account) > > The first user has a uploaded a GPX trace (quite messy too); the others > have not and are presumably tracing from the first user's. > > I'm comparing with Google Satellite and it don't see any vast similarities > so I guess we're safe there. > > I'm just quite curious about the sudden influx of activity there. Did > somebody conduct an OSM workshop there? > > > Eugene (osm:seav) > > -- http://vaes9.codedgraphic.com ___ talk-ph mailing list talk-ph@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ph
Re: [talk-ph] Bacolod
Any WMS can be used as a background in JOSM, but it doesn't give an assurance that it's OK for OSM. Anyone can use josm in other mapping projects outside osm. I sometimes use it for other mapping needs because of the really cool editing functions. On Sun, Feb 28, 2010 at 3:23 PM, Eugene Alvin Villar wrote: > I messaged him and he said that he traced from a WMS in JOSM. It's probably > a WMS plugin that let's you view Google Maps imagery. I guess if the imagery > came with the plugin, you would assume that it's OK to trace. > > > On Sun, Feb 28, 2010 at 1:42 PM, Marloue Pidor > wrote: >> >> I think his apology was sincere, he wanted our help... lets help him get >> Bacolod in the map the right way. That's a common mistake of most OSM >> newbies, putting copyrighted material into OSM. >> >> Best, >> >> Marloue (murlwe) >> >> <-Original Message-> >> >From: maning sambale [emmanuel.samb...@gmail.com] >> >Sent: 2/28/2010 12:36:08 PM >> >To: talk-ph@openstreetmap.org >> >Subject: Re: [talk-ph] Bacolod >> > >> >http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/goodbyebacolod:-(/diary/9683 >> > > > -- cheers, maning -- "Freedom is still the most radical idea of all" -N.Branden wiki: http://esambale.wikispaces.com/ blog: http://epsg4253.wordpress.com/ -- ___ talk-ph mailing list talk-ph@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ph
Re: [talk-ph] Bacolod
I messaged him and he said that he traced from a WMS in JOSM. It's probably a WMS plugin that let's you view Google Maps imagery. I guess if the imagery came with the plugin, you would assume that it's OK to trace. On Sun, Feb 28, 2010 at 1:42 PM, Marloue Pidor wrote: > I think his apology was sincere, he wanted our help... lets help him get > Bacolod in the map the right way. That's a common mistake of most OSM > newbies, putting copyrighted material into OSM. > > Best, > > Marloue (murlwe) > > > <-Original Message-> > >From: maning sambale [emmanuel.samb...@gmail.com] > >Sent: 2/28/2010 12:36:08 PM > >To: talk-ph@openstreetmap.org > >Subject: Re: [talk-ph] Bacolod > > > >http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/goodbyebacolod:-(/diary/9683<http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/goodbyebacolod:-%28/diary/9683> > > > ___ talk-ph mailing list talk-ph@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ph
Re: [talk-ph] Bacolod
I think his apology was sincere, he wanted our help... lets help him get Bacolod in the map the right way. That's a common mistake of most OSM newbies, putting copyrighted material into OSM. Best, Marloue (murlwe) <-Original Message-> >From: maning sambale [emmanuel.samb...@gmail.com] >Sent: 2/28/2010 12:36:08 PM >To: talk-ph@openstreetmap.org >Subject: Re: [talk-ph] Bacolod > >http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/goodbyebacolod:-(/diary/9683 > >On Sat, Feb 27, 2010 at 1:33 PM, maning sambale > wrote: >> Here's the transcript of our conversation from first to last (while I >> was sending him messages he changed his user name fro mgarrucho - >> jrizal - rgarchitorena - jjocson - goodbyebacolod:-) ) >> >> == >> To jjocson >> Subject regarding your edits in Bacolod >> DateThu, 25 Feb 2010 23:30:53 + >> >> jrizal, >> >> Hi! I've seen your edits in Bacaolod and they are really great. I am >> happy to see that Openstreetmap Philippine data is expanding to the >> Negros Island. However, I noticed that your contributions have a >> striking similarity to GoogleMaps' data. See this and use the slider >> on the top-right: >> http://sautter.com/map/?zoom=13&lat=10.65976&lon=122.97031&layers=B0 TF >> >> As far as I know the only gps tracks in Bacolod are the ones I >> uploaded months ago. >> >> Apologies if this may seem "too accusing" but please explain the >> sources of your contributions. >> >> Thanks! >> >> maning >> >> = >> >> You mean your the only one who has a gps in bacolod Anyways they >> are maps and for sure they would look similar right. I got it from >> NASA. >> >> jrizal >> >> = >> >> To jjocson >> Subject Re: regarding your edits in Bacolod >> DateFri, 26 Feb 2010 08:04:47 + >> >> >> On Fri Feb 26 07:47:03 UTC 2010 rgarchitorena wrote: >> >>> You mean your the only one who has a gps in bacolod >> No, what I mean here are the only gps traces uploaded in OSM I know >> are some of the traces I added (donated by other contributors). >> >>>Anyways they are maps and for sure they would look similar right. I got >it from NASA. >> >> Can you explain further what you mean by NASA? I use JOSM as an editor >> as well, it would be good if you can share what specific WMS or NASA >> imagery you used so that others can use it and improve the data. >> >> Just in case you didn't know, we are not allowed to copy data from >> copyrighted materials (an example is GoogleMaps). Most of NASA's >> imagery are public domain, so if you are using NASA's data that is OK. >> But we need to explicitly provide citation/source of information. >> >> Thanks again! >> >> == >> From jjocson >> Subject Re: regarding your edits in Bacolod >> DateFri, 26 Feb 2010 08:51:15 + >> >> >> Sorry but its personal if you want I can sell you the program >> :-)or perhaps you can give me your details so I can visit you and give >> you some lessons. >> >> === >> >> If the data source is "personal" = not available to the public = not >> suitable for OSM. >> >> Unless the data provider which you say is "NASA" gave explicit >> permission to use the images for OSM, I don't think it is right to use >> it in OSM. >> >> No offense my friend, but we want the OSM data to be clean as much as >> possible of copyright issues. If you want Bacolod to be in the OSm >> map. We can help you do it by gathering GPS tracks. We can lend you a >> GPS if you don't own one. >> >> Keep on mapping. >> >> >> >> From jjocson >> Subject Re: regarding your edits in Bacolod >> DateFri, 26 Feb 2010 09:04:34 + >> >> >> What a conclusion! Why sould I help you with what I'm doing if you got >> an attitude. And who the F are you anyway? THE OSM OWNER >> >> On Fri Feb 26 08:56:29 UTC 2010 maning wrote: >> >> >> >> And then I sent another reply which I wasn't able to sent because he changed >> his username while I was sending it to rgarchitorena. >> >> == >> To jjocson >> Subject changing usernames in a day >> DateFri, 26 Feb 2010 09:34:53 + >> >> You are a funny guy. You changed
Re: [talk-ph] Bacolod
http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/goodbyebacolod:-(/diary/9683 On Sat, Feb 27, 2010 at 1:33 PM, maning sambale wrote: > Here's the transcript of our conversation from first to last (while I > was sending him messages he changed his user name fro mgarrucho - > jrizal - rgarchitorena - jjocson - goodbyebacolod:-) ) > > == > To jjocson > Subject regarding your edits in Bacolod > Date Thu, 25 Feb 2010 23:30:53 + > > jrizal, > > Hi! I've seen your edits in Bacaolod and they are really great. I am > happy to see that Openstreetmap Philippine data is expanding to the > Negros Island. However, I noticed that your contributions have a > striking similarity to GoogleMaps' data. See this and use the slider > on the top-right: > http://sautter.com/map/?zoom=13&lat=10.65976&lon=122.97031&layers=B0TF > > As far as I know the only gps tracks in Bacolod are the ones I > uploaded months ago. > > Apologies if this may seem "too accusing" but please explain the > sources of your contributions. > > Thanks! > > maning > > = > > You mean your the only one who has a gps in bacolod Anyways they > are maps and for sure they would look similar right. I got it from > NASA. > > jrizal > > = > > To jjocson > Subject Re: regarding your edits in Bacolod > Date Fri, 26 Feb 2010 08:04:47 + > > > On Fri Feb 26 07:47:03 UTC 2010 rgarchitorena wrote: > >> You mean your the only one who has a gps in bacolod > No, what I mean here are the only gps traces uploaded in OSM I know > are some of the traces I added (donated by other contributors). > >>Anyways they are maps and for sure they would look similar right. I got it >>from NASA. > > Can you explain further what you mean by NASA? I use JOSM as an editor > as well, it would be good if you can share what specific WMS or NASA > imagery you used so that others can use it and improve the data. > > Just in case you didn't know, we are not allowed to copy data from > copyrighted materials (an example is GoogleMaps). Most of NASA's > imagery are public domain, so if you are using NASA's data that is OK. > But we need to explicitly provide citation/source of information. > > Thanks again! > > == > From jjocson > Subject Re: regarding your edits in Bacolod > Date Fri, 26 Feb 2010 08:51:15 + > > > Sorry but its personal if you want I can sell you the program > :-)or perhaps you can give me your details so I can visit you and give > you some lessons. > > === > > If the data source is "personal" = not available to the public = not > suitable for OSM. > > Unless the data provider which you say is "NASA" gave explicit > permission to use the images for OSM, I don't think it is right to use > it in OSM. > > No offense my friend, but we want the OSM data to be clean as much as > possible of copyright issues. If you want Bacolod to be in the OSm > map. We can help you do it by gathering GPS tracks. We can lend you a > GPS if you don't own one. > > Keep on mapping. > > > > From jjocson > Subject Re: regarding your edits in Bacolod > Date Fri, 26 Feb 2010 09:04:34 + > > > What a conclusion! Why sould I help you with what I'm doing if you got > an attitude. And who the F are you anyway? THE OSM OWNER > > On Fri Feb 26 08:56:29 UTC 2010 maning wrote: > > > > And then I sent another reply which I wasn't able to sent because he changed > his username while I was sending it to rgarchitorena. > > == > To jjocson > Subject changing usernames in a day > Date Fri, 26 Feb 2010 09:34:53 + > > You are a funny guy. You changed you usernames from mgarrucho to > jrizal to rgarchitorena to jjocson. > > I simply asked you to explain your source (which is very similar to > Google's data). I simply followed OSM's guidelines here: > http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/FAQ#I_think_someone.27s_been_entering_copyrighted_data_-_how_do_we_deal_with_that.3F > > For such cases. I have no resort but to report your edits to the OSM > Foundation Board Members. > > cheers, > > maning > > > > From jjocson > Subject Re: changing usernames in a day > Date Fri, 26 Feb 2010 09:44:17 + > > > I dont care mate! do what you have to do. > > == > > And then he replied again with a new username > > From goodbyebacolod:-) > Subject Bacolod > Date Fri, 26 Feb 2010 16:55:55 + > > > I think we got off with the wrong foot here. Yes your right its > similar to google and in the wsm settings it says NASA and localhost > 8998. Ive been using this for 3 to 4 days and think its fine since its > in the editor. If thats something against ur organization then fine Im > happy to stop it and do as your org says. > > > > My last answer. > > No problem mate! > > We want this map free of copyrighted material as much as possible. > Apologies if you're pissed-off with my inquiry. I am req
Re: [talk-ph] Bacolod
Let's not jump into conclusions this early. :) On Thu, Feb 25, 2010 at 8:41 PM, Totor wrote: > Wow,it looks like Google copied mgarrucho's edits pretty accurately ^_^ > http://sautter.com/map/?zoom=17&lat=10.68148&lon=122.95614&layers=B0TF > > Maning, you contacted him already for information? > > Totor > > --- On Wed, 2/24/10, maning sambale wrote: > >> From: maning sambale >> Subject: [talk-ph] Bacolod >> To: "osm-ph" >> Date: Wednesday, February 24, 2010, 3:59 PM >> http://osm.org/go/4n8s7ZJ >> >> but no trace: >> http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/mgarrucho/traces >> >> >> -- >> cheers, >> maning >> -- >> "Freedom is still the most radical idea of all" -N.Branden >> wiki: http://esambale.wikispaces.com/ >> blog: http://epsg4253.wordpress.com/ >> -- >> >> ___ >> talk-ph mailing list >> talk-ph@openstreetmap.org >> http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ph >> > > > > > ___ > talk-ph mailing list > talk-ph@openstreetmap.org > http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ph > -- cheers, maning -- "Freedom is still the most radical idea of all" -N.Branden wiki: http://esambale.wikispaces.com/ blog: http://epsg4253.wordpress.com/ -- ___ talk-ph mailing list talk-ph@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ph
Re: [talk-ph] Bacolod
Wow,it looks like Google copied mgarrucho's edits pretty accurately ^_^ http://sautter.com/map/?zoom=17&lat=10.68148&lon=122.95614&layers=B0TF Maning, you contacted him already for information? Totor --- On Wed, 2/24/10, maning sambale wrote: > From: maning sambale > Subject: [talk-ph] Bacolod > To: "osm-ph" > Date: Wednesday, February 24, 2010, 3:59 PM > http://osm.org/go/4n8s7ZJ > > but no trace: > http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/mgarrucho/traces > > > -- > cheers, > maning > -- > "Freedom is still the most radical idea of all" -N.Branden > wiki: http://esambale.wikispaces.com/ > blog: http://epsg4253.wordpress.com/ > -- > > ___ > talk-ph mailing list > talk-ph@openstreetmap.org > http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ph > ___ talk-ph mailing list talk-ph@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ph
