Re: [talk-ph] recommended csv format
Also to add a bit even it may sound obvious. For easier plotting of the coordinates , the lat/long field should be in Decimal Degrees format. --bunny From: maning sambale To: osm-ph Sent: Thursday, 19 September 2013 1:21 PM Subject: Re: [talk-ph] recommended csv format The problem with lat,long is that it will be confusing when you plot it in a cartesian plane. Mathematics convention is x,y (hence long,lat) and this becomes more confusing if you use a projected coordinate system like UTM (Easting, Northing). For a bit of history, the lat, long order came from its roots in sea navigation. During those days (where there are no GPS or even marine chronometer) only latitude (north and south) could be measured with great accuracy. My suggestion, stick to the one you prefer and use it consistently. On Thu, Sep 19, 2013 at 12:34 PM, Ed Garcia wrote: > I also used lat-long ever since. My GPS devices displays them in that > order, downloads them in that order too. my android GPS apps (GPS > Essentials, One Touch Location, etc) displays them in that order too. > > > On Thu, Sep 19, 2013 at 12:15 PM, Wayne Manuel wrote: >> >> Personally, I prefer lat-long. Easier to tell people that it should be >> alphabetical. And that at least in the PHL, the smaller number comes before >> the bigger number. >> >> Also, when copying latitude longitude from Google Maps urls (the ll >> parameter), it's lat long. >> >> When you want to quickly check where your lat longs are, you can just >> paste it into the Google Maps search box as lat,long >> >> >> >> >> Wayne Manuel >> >> >> On Thu, Sep 19, 2013 at 11:22 AM, Rally de Leon wrote: >>> >>> Dear all, >>> >>> Which is the more common / preferred format for csv >>> lat,long,name or long,lat,name? and why do you prefer one over the other? >>> (eg. less hassle, less clicks to import csv to common GIS softwares) >>> >>> If I am to recommend to ordinary people a free conversion utility, which >>> one? (my 2 preferred utility have different csv format) >>> >>> If i use "gpsbabel's" generic (Comma separated values) option (eg. kml to >>> csv conversion)---> gpsbabel -w -i kml -f filename.kml -o csv -F >>> filename.csv >>> csv will be in this order---> lat,long,name >>> >>> If i use another easy-to-use/free/multi-platform "KMLCSV" (from >>> http://choonchernlim.com/kmlcsv/ ) >>> kml to csv conversion will give you---> long,lat,name >>> >>> KMLCSV is very easy to use and allows ordinary people to view the POI's >>> on built-in google maps for quick verification. easy to install, easy to >>> distribute, virtually idiot-proof. >>> >>> GPSBabel is universal, has gui and command line, but has too many >>> option-buttons that can be confusing for ordinary user. >>> >>> or is there a way gpsbabel can convert (kml to csv) or (osm to csv) in >>> long,lat,name csv format? >>> >>> Thanks, >>> Rally >>> >>> ___ >>> talk-ph mailing list >>> talk-ph@openstreetmap.org >>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ph >>> >> >> >> ___ >> talk-ph mailing list >> talk-ph@openstreetmap.org >> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ph >> > > > > -- > website administrator: > - www.waypoints.ph > - reeflife.eppgarcia.com > > PADI Divemaster #491048 > > ___ > talk-ph mailing list > talk-ph@openstreetmap.org > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ph > -- cheers, maning -- "Freedom is still the most radical idea of all" -N.Branden wiki: http://esambale.wikispaces.com/ blog: http://epsg4253.wordpress.com/ -- ___ talk-ph mailing list talk-ph@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ph___ talk-ph mailing list talk-ph@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ph
Re: [talk-ph] recommended csv format
So me being confused about something so simple is valid. :-) It all started with me using Osmconvert http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Osmconvert in the search for a "macgyver solution" to make osm raw data become readable/distributable in spreadsheet form which has this example that I initially adapted: (csv in @lon @lat order) osmconvert shops.osm --all-to-nodes --csv="@id @lon @lat amenity shop name" --csv-headline On Thu, Sep 19, 2013 at 1:21 PM, maning sambale wrote: > The problem with lat,long is that it will be confusing when you plot > it in a cartesian plane. > Mathematics convention is x,y (hence long,lat) and this becomes more > confusing if you use a projected coordinate system like UTM (Easting, > Northing). > > For a bit of history, the lat, long order came from its roots in sea > navigation. During those days (where there are no GPS or even marine > chronometer) only latitude (north and south) could be measured with > great accuracy. > > My suggestion, stick to the one you prefer and use it consistently. > > > > > On Thu, Sep 19, 2013 at 12:34 PM, Ed Garcia wrote: > > I also used lat-long ever since. My GPS devices displays them in that > > order, downloads them in that order too. my android GPS apps (GPS > > Essentials, One Touch Location, etc) displays them in that order too. > > > > > > On Thu, Sep 19, 2013 at 12:15 PM, Wayne Manuel > wrote: > >> > >> Personally, I prefer lat-long. Easier to tell people that it should be > >> alphabetical. And that at least in the PHL, the smaller number comes > before > >> the bigger number. > >> > >> Also, when copying latitude longitude from Google Maps urls (the ll > >> parameter), it's lat long. > >> > >> When you want to quickly check where your lat longs are, you can just > >> paste it into the Google Maps search box as lat,long > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> Wayne Manuel > >> > >> > >> On Thu, Sep 19, 2013 at 11:22 AM, Rally de Leon > wrote: > >>> > >>> Dear all, > >>> > >>> Which is the more common / preferred format for csv > >>> lat,long,name or long,lat,name? and why do you prefer one over the > other? > >>> (eg. less hassle, less clicks to import csv to common GIS softwares) > >>> > >>> If I am to recommend to ordinary people a free conversion utility, > which > >>> one? (my 2 preferred utility have different csv format) > >>> > >>> If i use "gpsbabel's" generic (Comma separated values) option (eg. kml > to > >>> csv conversion)---> gpsbabel -w -i kml -f filename.kml -o csv -F > >>> filename.csv > >>> csv will be in this order---> lat,long,name > >>> > >>> If i use another easy-to-use/free/multi-platform "KMLCSV" (from > >>> http://choonchernlim.com/kmlcsv/ ) > >>> kml to csv conversion will give you---> long,lat,name > >>> > >>> KMLCSV is very easy to use and allows ordinary people to view the POI's > >>> on built-in google maps for quick verification. easy to install, easy > to > >>> distribute, virtually idiot-proof. > >>> > >>> GPSBabel is universal, has gui and command line, but has too many > >>> option-buttons that can be confusing for ordinary user. > >>> > >>> or is there a way gpsbabel can convert (kml to csv) or (osm to csv) in > >>> long,lat,name csv format? > >>> > >>> Thanks, > >>> Rally > >>> > >>> ___ > >>> talk-ph mailing list > >>> talk-ph@openstreetmap.org > >>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ph > >>> > >> > >> > >> ___ > >> talk-ph mailing list > >> talk-ph@openstreetmap.org > >> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ph > >> > > > > > > > > -- > > website administrator: > > - www.waypoints.ph > > - reeflife.eppgarcia.com > > > > PADI Divemaster #491048 > > > > ___ > > talk-ph mailing list > > talk-ph@openstreetmap.org > > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ph > > > > > > -- > cheers, > maning > -- > "Freedom is still the most radical idea of all" -N.Branden > wiki: http://esambale.wikispaces.com/ > blog: http://epsg4253.wordpress.com/ > -- > > ___ > talk-ph mailing list > talk-ph@openstreetmap.org > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ph > ___ talk-ph mailing list talk-ph@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ph
Re: [talk-ph] recommended csv format
The problem with lat,long is that it will be confusing when you plot it in a cartesian plane. Mathematics convention is x,y (hence long,lat) and this becomes more confusing if you use a projected coordinate system like UTM (Easting, Northing). For a bit of history, the lat, long order came from its roots in sea navigation. During those days (where there are no GPS or even marine chronometer) only latitude (north and south) could be measured with great accuracy. My suggestion, stick to the one you prefer and use it consistently. On Thu, Sep 19, 2013 at 12:34 PM, Ed Garcia wrote: > I also used lat-long ever since. My GPS devices displays them in that > order, downloads them in that order too. my android GPS apps (GPS > Essentials, One Touch Location, etc) displays them in that order too. > > > On Thu, Sep 19, 2013 at 12:15 PM, Wayne Manuel wrote: >> >> Personally, I prefer lat-long. Easier to tell people that it should be >> alphabetical. And that at least in the PHL, the smaller number comes before >> the bigger number. >> >> Also, when copying latitude longitude from Google Maps urls (the ll >> parameter), it's lat long. >> >> When you want to quickly check where your lat longs are, you can just >> paste it into the Google Maps search box as lat,long >> >> >> >> >> Wayne Manuel >> >> >> On Thu, Sep 19, 2013 at 11:22 AM, Rally de Leon wrote: >>> >>> Dear all, >>> >>> Which is the more common / preferred format for csv >>> lat,long,name or long,lat,name? and why do you prefer one over the other? >>> (eg. less hassle, less clicks to import csv to common GIS softwares) >>> >>> If I am to recommend to ordinary people a free conversion utility, which >>> one? (my 2 preferred utility have different csv format) >>> >>> If i use "gpsbabel's" generic (Comma separated values) option (eg. kml to >>> csv conversion)---> gpsbabel -w -i kml -f filename.kml -o csv -F >>> filename.csv >>> csv will be in this order---> lat,long,name >>> >>> If i use another easy-to-use/free/multi-platform "KMLCSV" (from >>> http://choonchernlim.com/kmlcsv/ ) >>> kml to csv conversion will give you---> long,lat,name >>> >>> KMLCSV is very easy to use and allows ordinary people to view the POI's >>> on built-in google maps for quick verification. easy to install, easy to >>> distribute, virtually idiot-proof. >>> >>> GPSBabel is universal, has gui and command line, but has too many >>> option-buttons that can be confusing for ordinary user. >>> >>> or is there a way gpsbabel can convert (kml to csv) or (osm to csv) in >>> long,lat,name csv format? >>> >>> Thanks, >>> Rally >>> >>> ___ >>> talk-ph mailing list >>> talk-ph@openstreetmap.org >>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ph >>> >> >> >> ___ >> talk-ph mailing list >> talk-ph@openstreetmap.org >> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ph >> > > > > -- > website administrator: > - www.waypoints.ph > - reeflife.eppgarcia.com > > PADI Divemaster #491048 > > ___ > talk-ph mailing list > talk-ph@openstreetmap.org > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ph > -- cheers, maning -- "Freedom is still the most radical idea of all" -N.Branden wiki: http://esambale.wikispaces.com/ blog: http://epsg4253.wordpress.com/ -- ___ talk-ph mailing list talk-ph@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ph
Re: [talk-ph] recommended csv format
Thank you for your answers. It looks like the Lat-Long wins :-) Yes, its more natural to read in lat-long order. I checked with some paper records of the Bureau of Lands Location Monuments (BLLM), they too have Latitude/Northings Longitude/Eastings columns. Googe Earth uses it. Maybe the only reason why some technical people and gis programs use long-lat format is don't want to reverse the order of x-y coordinate on their data list. I'm dropping KMLCSV Converter from my preferred utilities to recommend to lay people (too bad i love its simplicity, and can launch Garmin POI loader from within - no big deal) On Thu, Sep 19, 2013 at 12:34 PM, Ed Garcia wrote: > I also used lat-long ever since. My GPS devices displays them in that > order, downloads them in that order too. my android GPS apps (GPS > Essentials, One Touch Location, etc) displays them in that order too. > > > On Thu, Sep 19, 2013 at 12:15 PM, Wayne Manuel wrote: > >> Personally, I prefer lat-long. Easier to tell people that it should be >> alphabetical. And that at least in the PHL, the smaller number comes before >> the bigger number. >> >> Also, when copying latitude longitude from Google Maps urls (the ll >> parameter), it's lat long. >> >> When you want to quickly check where your lat longs are, you can just >> paste it into the Google Maps search box as lat,long >> >> >> >> >> Wayne Manuel >> >> >> On Thu, Sep 19, 2013 at 11:22 AM, Rally de Leon wrote: >> >>> Dear all, >>> >>> Which is the more common / preferred format for csv >>> lat,long,name or long,lat,name? and why do you prefer one over the >>> other? (eg. less hassle, less clicks to import csv to common GIS softwares) >>> >>> If I am to recommend to ordinary people a free conversion utility, which >>> one? (my 2 preferred utility have different csv format) >>> >>> If i use "gpsbabel's" generic (Comma separated values) option (eg. kml >>> to csv conversion)---> gpsbabel -w -i kml -f filename.kml -o csv -F >>> filename.csv >>> csv will be in this order---> lat,long,name >>> >>> If i use another easy-to-use/free/multi-platform "KMLCSV" (from >>> http://choonchernlim.com/kmlcsv/ ) >>> kml to csv conversion will give you---> long,lat,name >>> >>> KMLCSV is very easy to use and allows ordinary people to view the POI's >>> on built-in google maps for quick verification. easy to install, easy to >>> distribute, virtually idiot-proof. >>> >>> GPSBabel is universal, has gui and command line, but has too many >>> option-buttons that can be confusing for ordinary user. >>> >>> or is there a way gpsbabel can convert (kml to csv) or (osm to csv) in >>> long,lat,name csv format? >>> >>> Thanks, >>> Rally >>> >>> ___ >>> talk-ph mailing list >>> talk-ph@openstreetmap.org >>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ph >>> >>> >> >> ___ >> talk-ph mailing list >> talk-ph@openstreetmap.org >> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ph >> >> > > > -- > website administrator: > - www.waypoints.ph > - reeflife.eppgarcia.com > > PADI Divemaster #491048 > ___ talk-ph mailing list talk-ph@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ph
Re: [talk-ph] recommended csv format
I also used lat-long ever since. My GPS devices displays them in that order, downloads them in that order too. my android GPS apps (GPS Essentials, One Touch Location, etc) displays them in that order too. On Thu, Sep 19, 2013 at 12:15 PM, Wayne Manuel wrote: > Personally, I prefer lat-long. Easier to tell people that it should be > alphabetical. And that at least in the PHL, the smaller number comes before > the bigger number. > > Also, when copying latitude longitude from Google Maps urls (the ll > parameter), it's lat long. > > When you want to quickly check where your lat longs are, you can just > paste it into the Google Maps search box as lat,long > > > > > Wayne Manuel > > > On Thu, Sep 19, 2013 at 11:22 AM, Rally de Leon wrote: > >> Dear all, >> >> Which is the more common / preferred format for csv >> lat,long,name or long,lat,name? and why do you prefer one over the other? >> (eg. less hassle, less clicks to import csv to common GIS softwares) >> >> If I am to recommend to ordinary people a free conversion utility, which >> one? (my 2 preferred utility have different csv format) >> >> If i use "gpsbabel's" generic (Comma separated values) option (eg. kml to >> csv conversion)---> gpsbabel -w -i kml -f filename.kml -o csv -F >> filename.csv >> csv will be in this order---> lat,long,name >> >> If i use another easy-to-use/free/multi-platform "KMLCSV" (from >> http://choonchernlim.com/kmlcsv/ ) >> kml to csv conversion will give you---> long,lat,name >> >> KMLCSV is very easy to use and allows ordinary people to view the POI's >> on built-in google maps for quick verification. easy to install, easy to >> distribute, virtually idiot-proof. >> >> GPSBabel is universal, has gui and command line, but has too many >> option-buttons that can be confusing for ordinary user. >> >> or is there a way gpsbabel can convert (kml to csv) or (osm to csv) in >> long,lat,name csv format? >> >> Thanks, >> Rally >> >> ___ >> talk-ph mailing list >> talk-ph@openstreetmap.org >> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ph >> >> > > ___ > talk-ph mailing list > talk-ph@openstreetmap.org > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ph > > -- website administrator: - www.waypoints.ph - reeflife.eppgarcia.com PADI Divemaster #491048 ___ talk-ph mailing list talk-ph@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ph
Re: [talk-ph] recommended csv format
Personally, I prefer lat-long. Easier to tell people that it should be alphabetical. And that at least in the PHL, the smaller number comes before the bigger number. Also, when copying latitude longitude from Google Maps urls (the ll parameter), it's lat long. When you want to quickly check where your lat longs are, you can just paste it into the Google Maps search box as lat,long Wayne Manuel On Thu, Sep 19, 2013 at 11:22 AM, Rally de Leon wrote: > Dear all, > > Which is the more common / preferred format for csv > lat,long,name or long,lat,name? and why do you prefer one over the other? > (eg. less hassle, less clicks to import csv to common GIS softwares) > > If I am to recommend to ordinary people a free conversion utility, which > one? (my 2 preferred utility have different csv format) > > If i use "gpsbabel's" generic (Comma separated values) option (eg. kml to > csv conversion)---> gpsbabel -w -i kml -f filename.kml -o csv -F > filename.csv > csv will be in this order---> lat,long,name > > If i use another easy-to-use/free/multi-platform "KMLCSV" (from > http://choonchernlim.com/kmlcsv/ ) > kml to csv conversion will give you---> long,lat,name > > KMLCSV is very easy to use and allows ordinary people to view the POI's on > built-in google maps for quick verification. easy to install, easy to > distribute, virtually idiot-proof. > > GPSBabel is universal, has gui and command line, but has too many > option-buttons that can be confusing for ordinary user. > > or is there a way gpsbabel can convert (kml to csv) or (osm to csv) in > long,lat,name csv format? > > Thanks, > Rally > > ___ > talk-ph mailing list > talk-ph@openstreetmap.org > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ph > > ___ talk-ph mailing list talk-ph@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ph
Re: [talk-ph] recommended csv format
On Thursday, 19 September, 2013 11:22 AM, Rally de Leon wrote: lat,long,name or long,lat,name? and why do you prefer one over the other? (eg. less hassle, less clicks to import csv to common GIS softwares) Just my opinion: when people talk about co-ordinates, they normally talk about Lat and Long (almost never Long and Lat), so they should probably be in that order! I'd say gpsbabel has it right, and your other software is swimming against the tide. The advantage of XML formats as opposed to CSV, is that they specify that each point is either or so there is no ambiguity. Jim ___ talk-ph mailing list talk-ph@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ph
