Re: [Talk-us] HI: Hawaii GIS Data
On 5 Dec 2009, at 00:47, Scott Atwood wrote: > On Fri, Dec 4, 2009 at 4:12 PM, Shaun McDonald > wrote: > Why oh why oh why do some people insist on wasting time trying to import > loads of data? > > Please take a read of > http://www.gravitystorm.co.uk/shine/archives/2009/11/10/the-pottery-club/ > > Please go out and map what's out on the ground, as usually imported data is > of a rather low standard or the import isn't done right, and it's really, > really hard to do an import correctly. > > > On 5 Dec 2009, at 00:00, Scott Atwood wrote: > >> The Hawaii state government has a sizable repository of GIS data that could >> be useful to import into OSM: http://hawaii.gov/dbedt/gis/. I have >> contacted a manager in the GIS department by telephone and verified that >> this GIS data is in the public domain, and therefore available for import >> into OSM. >> >> Hawaii has pretty good road coverage from a import of 2007 TIGER data on >> O'ahu, and an ongoing import of 2009 TIGER data for the remaining islands, >> so the roads data provided by the GIS department probably doesn't need to be >> considered.But there is a lot of other data available that isn't >> currently in OSM, such as: >> >>* Streams, waterfalls, dams, and canals (Does the National Hydrography >> Dataset cover Hawaii?) >>* Coral reefs >>* Offshore islets >>* Mile markers > > Not so sure these belong in OSM. > > I would argue that streams, waterfalls, dams, and canals are extremely > relevant things to map.Many of these features are in areas of heavy > vegetation and extremely rugged terrain which makes surveying them by hand or > via satellite imagery very challenging. > > Coral reefs are extremely import to coastal navigation, recreation, and > tourism in Hawaii, and once again, very difficult to accurately map. > > Offshore islets can probably be mapped via satellite imagery. Mapping them > by direct survey is difficult or impossible, since many of them are protected > seabird sanctuaries and/or hazardous to get to. > > Road navigation in Hawaii tends to reference mile markers far more often than > in any other location I've been to. Travel guides often give directions > using mile markers as landmarks, and tourist maps often include mile markers. Erm, I was only referring to the mile markers. Those other items would probably be useful for openseamap. > >>* Trails >>* Parks >>* Schools > > Um haven't these already been imported? Not just current ones, but historic > ones too, and schools that opened 4 years ago aren't in there? > > Some trails, have been import, some have been manually survey. Many are > missing entirely. > > National Park boundaries have been imported, but most other parks seem to be > missing. > > I don't know about schools on O'ahu, but there doesn't seem to have been any > schools imported on the neighbor islands. Again, I wasn't clear enough, and was primarily referring to the schools. > >>* Hotels >>* Assorted administrative boundaries > > You'll probably find that most of these are in there already. > > Hotels, no. Some administrative boundaries have been imported. Others have > not. > Grr, seems like a bit of a failure on my part with that mail and not being clear enough that I was only referring to the last item in each section. > > Do some publicity, run some mapping parties. The reason OSM has worked in > Germany is due to plenty of publicity. > > Mapping parties are great and will certainly help improve the quality of the > more compact urbanized land areas of Hawaii. But much of the state is > undeveloped and difficult to access, so importing data from external sources > should be considered as part of the strategy of filling out the map. I'd recommend doing the import on an item by item basis based on other surrounding OSM data rather than pull all the data in automatically, thus it would be more like a copying or tracing exercise. Shaun > > -Scott > > -- > Scott Atwood > > The hill isn't in the way, it is the way. > > ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] HI: Hawaii GIS Data
On Fri, Dec 4, 2009 at 7:47 PM, Scott Atwood wrote: > Offshore islets can probably be mapped via satellite imagery. It's common practice for providers of aerial/satellite imagery such as Yahoo to mask out actual coverage of oceans and large lakes with a generic "ocean" texture that is meant to look "better" than actual photographic data. So if it's small and not very close to the mainland, don't count on it showing up in the Yahoo imagery. -- David "Smith" a.k.a. Vid the Kid a.k.a. Bír'd'in Does this font make me look fat? ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] Marking closed bridges
I fully support keeping "access=*" simple, or at least, not making it more complicated than it is. Closed roads and bridges, for whatever reason*, should be tagged "access=no". Of course, having additional info would be great. I suppose "description=*" would be best for that, as it seems that key's intention is for the value to be passed directly to the end-user. Perhaps the slippy map should render the value of "description=*" in parentheses next to the name on roads, POIs, and other features. Anyone who can propose a solid idea of how this should work can suggest it on the trac. Provide visuals of how it would look, you get bonus points. Figure out how to accomplish it in the Mapnik stylesheet, and then you'll *really* be a superhero. (*When something closes, make it "access=no". When/if it re-opens, use whatever access tags are appropriate. However, when this happens repeatedly on the majority of roads in an area, there really should be a better way to do it. I'd settle for leaving the access tagging as representative of its usual "open" state, and add something like "description=closed in winter" along with whatever tags might be appropriate for seasonal or periodic closures.) -- David "Smith" a.k.a. Vid the Kid a.k.a. Bír'd'in Does this font make me look fat? ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] Hawaii GIS Data
On Fri, Dec 4, 2009 at 11:40 PM, Matthew Luehrmann < matthew.luehrm...@gmail.com> wrote: > Just as a note for those interested in mapping streams and rivers, "the > riverbed and banks, up to the ordinary high water mark, are state land, > held > in trust for the public for navigation, fishing, and other non-destructive > visits." > Apparently this is US federal law, superseding any state law (at least for navigable streams and rivers) under the commerce clause. Interesting. However, you'd still need permission from the owner of the land where you start and end your journey, correct? ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] Undeletion
> > what i'm looking at is why a bunch of ways in the area around Horseheads & > Elmira NY > disappeared mid-November. here is one of the ways that vanished: > > http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/13037976/history > > i see its last appearance is in this changeset: > > http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/changeset/3138279 > > which seems well matched to the area where all the ways went MIA. when a > way > is deleted, i take it that it gets the next version with no nodes. > > a day later, Jeremy Adams did this one: > > http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/changeset/3151711 > > which didn't seem like it touched any of the ways i'm trying to track down > -- they > weren't there any more. > > richard > > Both of those changesets are mine. Despite the incorrect comment on the one changeset, both were me cleaning up duplicate Tiger data in that county. It's possible that if some editing was done in that area and DaveHansen's ways were deleted but his nodes left behind that these ways you're missed might have been accidentally deleted by me. I tried to lookup for things like this, but it's certainly possible that I missed it. I'll ask that both changesets (3151711 and 3138279) be reverted. If anyone reading this thread has that power, please do so. If not, I'll start a thread in talk and ask there. -Jeremy ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] HI: Hawaii GIS Data
Shaun it's simply not that clear cut, there are plenty of people in the US who would never have gotten involved without TIGER. I met one yesterday and it was the first thing he said. On Dec 4, 2009, at 5:12 PM, Shaun McDonald wrote: > Why oh why oh why do some people insist on wasting time trying to import > loads of data? > > Please take a read of > http://www.gravitystorm.co.uk/shine/archives/2009/11/10/the-pottery-club/ > > Please go out and map what's out on the ground, as usually imported data is > of a rather low standard or the import isn't done right, and it's really, > really hard to do an import correctly. > > > On 5 Dec 2009, at 00:00, Scott Atwood wrote: > >> The Hawaii state government has a sizable repository of GIS data that could >> be useful to import into OSM: http://hawaii.gov/dbedt/gis/. I have >> contacted a manager in the GIS department by telephone and verified that >> this GIS data is in the public domain, and therefore available for import >> into OSM. >> >> Hawaii has pretty good road coverage from a import of 2007 TIGER data on >> O'ahu, and an ongoing import of 2009 TIGER data for the remaining islands, >> so the roads data provided by the GIS department probably doesn't need to be >> considered.But there is a lot of other data available that isn't >> currently in OSM, such as: >> >>* Streams, waterfalls, dams, and canals (Does the National Hydrography >> Dataset cover Hawaii?) >>* Coral reefs >>* Offshore islets >>* Mile markers > > Not so sure these belong in OSM. > >>* Trails >>* Parks >>* Schools > > Um haven't these already been imported? Not just current ones, but historic > ones too, and schools that opened 4 years ago aren't in there? > >>* Hotels >>* Assorted administrative boundaries > > You'll probably find that most of these are in there already. > >>* Land use categorization. >>* etc. >> >> There has been relatively little mapping activity in Hawaii outside of >> O'ahu, so these data sets are unlikely to conflict with much existing work >> on the neighbor islands. More careful consideration would have to be given >> for data imports for O'ahu. >> > > Do some publicity, run some mapping parties. The reason OSM has worked in > Germany is due to plenty of publicity. > > Shaun > >> I have not made any investigation into the accuracy of any of this data yet, >> and honestly, I'm not sure what sort of tools or techniques would be useful >> for evaluating the accuracy. >> >> -Scott >> >> >> -- >> Scott Atwood >> >> The hill isn't in the way, it is the way. >> >> >> ___ >> Talk-us mailing list >> Talk-us@openstreetmap.org >> http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us > > ___ > Talk-us mailing list > Talk-us@openstreetmap.org > http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us Yours &c. Steve ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
[Talk-us] NHD Data in CO
I was asked yesterday if/when the NHD would be imported around CO. Anyone know? Yours &c. Steve ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] NHD Data in CO
Judging by the wiki page, there are no current plans on importing NHD in Colorado. The Colorado Headwaters have been uploaded. James On Saturday 05 December 2009 01:16:29 pm SteveC wrote: > I was asked yesterday if/when the NHD would be imported around CO. Anyone > know? > > Yours &c. > > Steve > > > ___ > Talk-us mailing list > Talk-us@openstreetmap.org > http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us > ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] HI: Hawaii GIS Data
On Dec 5, 2009, at 4:02, "David ``Smith''" wrote: > On Fri, Dec 4, 2009 at 7:47 PM, Scott Atwood > wrote: >> Offshore islets can probably be mapped via satellite imagery. > > It's common practice for providers of aerial/satellite imagery such as > Yahoo to mask out actual coverage of oceans and large lakes with a > generic "ocean" texture that is meant to look "better" than actual > photographic data. So if it's small and not very close to the > mainland, don't count on it showing up in the Yahoo imagery. Ah! Thanks for that explanation! I had already noticed some of the more isolated islets in the northwest Hawaiian islands were mysteriously missing from the Yahoo images and aren't in the PGS data either. However, I was mostly referring to the numerous small islets within a few hundred meters of shore. Most of these don't seem to be in PGS, but so appear in the Yahoo images, though not necessarily at a very high resolution. The GIS data should give good coverage of these islets near the main islands. -Scott ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] HI: Hawaii GIS Data
> Please take a read of > http://www.gravitystorm.co.uk/shine/archives/2009/11/10/the-pottery- > club/ It started out as an interesting story, until I got to the "outsiders". Outsiders?!?! You have GOT to be kidding me. Next are we going to have a manhood contest about who has the longer, um, OSM pedigree? OSM is bigger than one little club. Are you and Andy going to come and survey my neighborhood? No, because you aren't *here*. But I am *here*, and I've got some neighbors here, and collectively we want to import starting data and we are happy with working with it. Believe it or not, somehow we managed to figure out how to find the "delete" key on our keyboards. Here's a better analogy: you and your friends started a pottery club in your town, and now you want to tell me what I can do with the pottery club in my town. Yes, I have 10 unfinished vases outside my back door that I got for free, but I'm not supposed to give them to any of my 300 million neighbors who don't know how to do pottery yet; they have to wait to have a vase until they make it themselves from scratch. That sounds a little unreasonable to me. - Alan ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] HI: Hawaii GIS Data
Perhaps I'm not a typical mapper, but I don't find the existence of bulk imported local data to have been particular inhibiting in my activity level. I don't believe there is any one thing as a "typical mapper". But I certainly agree with you myself, and so do many others, as witnessed by many past postings to the talk-us list. - Alan ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
