Re: [Talk-us] US Addressing

[Ian Dees]

Sorry, I should have made this clearer: I made the document read-only
because I didn't want griefers hopping in there. If you're interested in
helping at all please give me your e-mail address and I'll add you as an
editor.


On Wed, Nov 28, 2012 at 5:35 PM, Ian Dees  wrote:

> Hi folks,
>
> So SteveC's blog post sparked a bit of conversation today:
> http://stevecoast.com/2012/11/28/openstreetmap-addressable/
>
> I'd love to see OSM US lead the way on collecting high quality addressing
> data from as many places as possible and throw it in to OSM. To that end I
> started with this spreadsheet here:
>
> https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AsVnlPsfrhUIdEVZTzVFalFYYnlvTkc0R05wcUpsWVE
>
> I think we should crowd-source an effort to collect as much local
> addressing data as possible, convert it to OSM format, and import it.
> Obviously we should do it in a controlled manner and follow the usual
> import guidelines, but a *large* part of the work is in collecting the
> data in the first place and convincing municipalities to license it to us
> in a compatible manner.
>
> Is anyone else interested in this? I could use some help gathering
> volunteers to the cause.
>
> -Ian
>
>
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Re: [Talk-us] US Addressing

[Ian Dees]

On Wed, Nov 28, 2012 at 8:22 PM, Martijn van Exel  wrote:

> No Salt Lake City? Meh. I have good contacts at the State GIS and they
> are releasing state wide addresses Spring 2013. We're already on the
> move here in the boondocks.


I only used these cities as a start: if you (or anyone) has a thread going
to get data with their area we can definitely add it to this list and keep
track of your process.
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Re: [Talk-us] US Addressing

[Martijn van Exel]

No Salt Lake City? Meh. I have good contacts at the State GIS and they
are releasing state wide addresses Spring 2013. We're already on the
move here in the boondocks.

Martijn

On Wed, Nov 28, 2012 at 7:15 PM, Ian Dees  wrote:
> On Wed, Nov 28, 2012 at 6:52 PM, Brian May  wrote:
>>
>> In the spreadsheet, would it make more sense to have the records by
>> county, and split out into cities where necessary? In Florida, its the
>> county govmts and county property appraisers that create / maintain parcels
>> and addresses databases. I know that is not the case in some NE states,
>> though.
>
>
> I seeded the list with the top 100 cities in the US. As we collect more data
> we can use the "County" column and leave the city column blank to keep track
> of the data.
>
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Re: [Talk-us] US Addressing

[Ian Dees]

On Wed, Nov 28, 2012 at 6:52 PM, Brian May  wrote:

> In the spreadsheet, would it make more sense to have the records by
> county, and split out into cities where necessary? In Florida, its the
> county govmts and county property appraisers that create / maintain parcels
> and addresses databases. I know that is not the case in some NE states,
> though.
>

I seeded the list with the top 100 cities in the US. As we collect more
data we can use the "County" column and leave the city column blank to keep
track of the data.
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Re: [Talk-us] US Addressing

[Brian May]

On 11/28/2012 8:10 PM, Jeff Meyer wrote:
Does anyone have any success stories of asking localities to open up 
previously copyrighted data? I'm going down the "just ask nicely for 
*really* open data" path here in Seattle, but have yet to hear back 
from the authorities. It seems that having a list of other cities that 
have opened up and shared data would be a good reference tool when 
going to ask for looser restrictions. - Jeff



--
Jeff Meyer
Global World History Atlas
www.gwhat.org 
j...@gwhat.org 
206-676-2347


I have an unfriendly success story for opening up access to data and 
removing any copyright assertions. Florida has strong open records laws. 
Several years ago, a few property appraisers in FL were still both 
charging outrageous fees for data (like $20k for a parcel shapefile) and 
asserting copyright over the data. A small company in Orlando filed suit 
against the Collier County Property Appraiser and won. 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microdecisions,_Inc._v._Skinner


After that case, the other appraisers who were not following state law 
fell in line with the law. They can still charge a "reasonable fee", but 
they cannot assert any copyright or license over the data.


As I understand it, when dealing with local governments, state law takes 
precedence. It appears that Washington State has liberal open records 
laws - after reading through this: 
http://www.waurisa.org/conferences/2012/presentations/09%20Josh%20Greenberg%20Governments%20role%20in%20sharing%20spatial%20information.pdf


I saw on King County's GIS Data website they provide data for free 
download but throw some legalese in front of it asserting some kind of 
limited license, they own copyright, they can take away the license, 
etc. I'm not a lawyer, but my hunch is the "license agreement" is 
invalid, because state law takes precedence.


Brian
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Re: [Talk-us] Operation Cowboy - Preaparing Thank you gift

[Mike N]

A big thanks to Matthias and anyone else involved in setting things up - 
this was a big result for the US.   I chose that weekend to pay 
attention to the 'Red headed stepchild' of the next county, and imported 
newly constructed roads from TIGER, and got to some long-needed routing 
fixes.


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Re: [Talk-us] US Addressing

[Brian May]

On 11/28/2012 6:35 PM, Ian Dees wrote:

Hi folks,

So SteveC's blog post sparked a bit of conversation today:
http://stevecoast.com/2012/11/28/openstreetmap-addressable/

I'd love to see OSM US lead the way on collecting high quality 
addressing data from as many places as possible and throw it in to 
OSM. To that end I started with this spreadsheet here:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AsVnlPsfrhUIdEVZTzVFalFYYnlvTkc0R05wcUpsWVE

I think we should crowd-source an effort to collect as much local 
addressing data as possible, convert it to OSM format, and import it. 
Obviously we should do it in a controlled manner and follow the usual 
import guidelines, but a *large* part of the work is in collecting the 
data in the first place and convincing municipalities to license it to 
us in a compatible manner.


Is anyone else interested in this? I could use some help gathering 
volunteers to the cause.


-Ian



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I support this 1000%. 2013 should be the year of the addresses for OSM 
in the US. Addresses are sorely needed in a big way. And there's tons of 
accurate info that local governments have spent millions collecting 
already (could be hundreds of millions). I was just reading an old 
thread from last year on importing address info based on parcels. I can 
help in many areas of Florida. GIS data in FL is essentially public 
domain. We have very liberal open records laws. I already have parcels 
for the whole state, which all include site addresses (many have city 
and zipcode as well) as well as address points for several counties. 
There's a few counties with building outlines as well. For those, we 
could do some pre-processing to attach addresses to buildings and import 
that, at least for the counties where individual address points are not 
available and for parcels with one building. Multiple buildings and 
addresses per parcel are another issue.


In the spreadsheet, would it make more sense to have the records by 
county, and split out into cities where necessary? In Florida, its the 
county govmts and county property appraisers that create / maintain 
parcels and addresses databases. I know that is not the case in some NE 
states, though.


Brian
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Re: [Talk-us] US Addressing

[Greg Troxel]

the Old Topo Depot  writes:

> If it is feasible to have a (mostly) unified parcel schema, a MapRoulette
> challenge can be created to task the conversion work to the community.

I was thinking about just having a node with an address which is the
centroid of the parcel, and step 1 is dropping those in.  MapRoulette
could be used to position them over buildings as step 2.


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Re: [Talk-us] US Addressing

[the Old Topo Depot]

If it is feasible to have a (mostly) unified parcel schema, a MapRoulette
challenge can be created to task the conversion work to the community.


On Wed, Nov 28, 2012 at 3:56 PM, Greg Troxel  wrote:

>
> MassGIS has parcel data available in a license-ok manner, and I have
> been thinking about it, but not getting to it.
>
> An idea is to have a common schema or schemas for non-imported parcel
> data in osm format.  Then people can write converters for their
> state/whatever and publish the data, and others can work on how to
> import that safely.  If the whole process is broken down to a larger
> number of manageable steps, we'll probably get more progress - I suspect
> OSM has 1000 people with 2 hours each more than it has 2 people with
> 1000 hours.
>
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>


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Re: [Talk-us] Operation Cowboy - Preaparing Thank you gift

[the Old Topo Depot]

On the MapRoulette subject, the connectivity challenge error count dropped
below 10,000 today, down from around 60,000 a mere four weeks ago.

This is really outstanding progress.

On Wed, Nov 28, 2012 at 3:19 PM, Alex Barth  wrote:

> I'd like to ride on the coat tails of Richard's comments: Thank you
> Matthias and anyone else who helped set this up. Super excited about such
> efforts as they further deliniate great tasks for archair mapping and
> connecting local with global communities.
>
> On Nov 28, 2012, at 6:04 PM, Richard Fairhurst 
> wrote:
>
> > !i! wrote:
> >> Hi, one last personal note on the mapathon and a big thank you
> >> (literally): http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/!i!/diary/18132
> >
> > And thank you, too. I've always been sceptical about this sort of event
> - my
> > vision for OSM is that we need more contributors with local knowledge,
> not
> > more "remote mapping" - but in hindsight I think this, and MapRoulette,
> are
> > showing some really interesting ways forward. By applying the OSM
> community
> > to a problem in Mechanical Turk fashion, we're able to achieve much
> better
> > results than an unthinking import or automated edit would do.
> >
> > Give the OSM community a task and it will carry it out much better than
> > you'd imagine. There's lots we can learn from that.
> >
> > cheers
> > Richard
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > View this message in context:
> http://gis.19327.n5.nabble.com/Operation-Cowboy-Preaparing-Thank-you-gift-tp5737472p5738099.html
> > Sent from the USA mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
> >
> > ___
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>
> Alex Barth
> http://twitter.com/lxbarth
> tel (+1) 202 250 3633
>
>
>
>
>
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Re: [Talk-us] US Addressing

[Greg Troxel]

MassGIS has parcel data available in a license-ok manner, and I have
been thinking about it, but not getting to it.

An idea is to have a common schema or schemas for non-imported parcel
data in osm format.  Then people can write converters for their
state/whatever and publish the data, and others can work on how to
import that safely.  If the whole process is broken down to a larger
number of manageable steps, we'll probably get more progress - I suspect
OSM has 1000 people with 2 hours each more than it has 2 people with
1000 hours.


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Re: [Talk-us] US Addressing

[Richard Welty]

On 11/28/12 6:35 PM, Ian Dees wrote:

Is anyone else interested in this? I could use some help gathering
volunteers to the cause.


i am working on leveraging things so that i can import enhanced 911
address data from NYS into OSM. this will probably happen as part of
my emergency response GPS map project; i am going to be meeting
with some of the VFD chiefs in the Capital District of NY in the near
future to continue to push this along.

another thing i think i want to do is set up a concept demonstrator
of what house number based address lookup might look like; i'm
thinking of setting up an apache solr search engine instance on the
us chapter servers as a playpen.

richard


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[Talk-us] US Addressing

[Ian Dees]

Hi folks,

So SteveC's blog post sparked a bit of conversation today:
http://stevecoast.com/2012/11/28/openstreetmap-addressable/

I'd love to see OSM US lead the way on collecting high quality addressing
data from as many places as possible and throw it in to OSM. To that end I
started with this spreadsheet here:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AsVnlPsfrhUIdEVZTzVFalFYYnlvTkc0R05wcUpsWVE

I think we should crowd-source an effort to collect as much local
addressing data as possible, convert it to OSM format, and import it.
Obviously we should do it in a controlled manner and follow the usual
import guidelines, but a *large* part of the work is in collecting the data
in the first place and convincing municipalities to license it to us in a
compatible manner.

Is anyone else interested in this? I could use some help gathering
volunteers to the cause.

-Ian
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Re: [Talk-us] Operation Cowboy - Preaparing Thank you gift

[Alex Barth]

I'd like to ride on the coat tails of Richard's comments: Thank you Matthias 
and anyone else who helped set this up. Super excited about such efforts as 
they further deliniate great tasks for archair mapping and connecting local 
with global communities.

On Nov 28, 2012, at 6:04 PM, Richard Fairhurst  wrote:

> !i! wrote:
>> Hi, one last personal note on the mapathon and a big thank you 
>> (literally): http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/!i!/diary/18132
> 
> And thank you, too. I've always been sceptical about this sort of event - my
> vision for OSM is that we need more contributors with local knowledge, not
> more "remote mapping" - but in hindsight I think this, and MapRoulette, are
> showing some really interesting ways forward. By applying the OSM community
> to a problem in Mechanical Turk fashion, we're able to achieve much better
> results than an unthinking import or automated edit would do.
> 
> Give the OSM community a task and it will carry it out much better than
> you'd imagine. There's lots we can learn from that.
> 
> cheers
> Richard
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> --
> View this message in context: 
> http://gis.19327.n5.nabble.com/Operation-Cowboy-Preaparing-Thank-you-gift-tp5737472p5738099.html
> Sent from the USA mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
> 
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Alex Barth
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tel (+1) 202 250 3633





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Re: [Talk-us] Operation Cowboy - Preaparing Thank you gift

[Richard Fairhurst]

!i! wrote:
> Hi, one last personal note on the mapathon and a big thank you 
> (literally): http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/!i!/diary/18132

And thank you, too. I've always been sceptical about this sort of event - my
vision for OSM is that we need more contributors with local knowledge, not
more "remote mapping" - but in hindsight I think this, and MapRoulette, are
showing some really interesting ways forward. By applying the OSM community
to a problem in Mechanical Turk fashion, we're able to achieve much better
results than an unthinking import or automated edit would do.

Give the OSM community a task and it will carry it out much better than
you'd imagine. There's lots we can learn from that.

cheers
Richard





--
View this message in context: 
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Re: [Talk-us] Operation Cowboy - Preaparing Thank you gift

[Matthias Meißer]

Hi, one last personal note on the mapathon and a big thank you (literally)
http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/!i!/diary/18132

bye,
Matthias

Am 25.11.2012 15:37, schrieb Matthias Meißer:

Hi,

if we look at the current stats, >150 users joined the OPC2012 which
results in 300 active mappers in the US (as the usual 200 ones).
Personally I like to send out an "Thank you all!" message, but maybe we
all can build something more personal? Just a few ideas:

1. Collecting photo snapshots of the american OSM community and build a
collage with it? Maybe the string "Thank you" with your faces? Or as
part in a animation? (who can do this videoediting?)

2. Writing the String in all possible languages (in german: "Vielen
Dank!") in the USA deserts at OSM, taking a snapshot and removing them
afterwards?

Maybe you have another ideas, how you can thank people contributing from
the other end of the world?

Matthias

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Re: [Talk-us] First vs 1st

[Richard Welty]

On 11/28/12 9:23 AM, Peter Dobratz wrote:
I think the key word here is abbreviated. In the OSM name, the 
un-abbreviated form
should be used: name=Fourth Street To record the abbreviated form, you 
could use 
the following: short_name=4th St As with all abbreviations, sometimes 
they will
appear on signs and sometimes the full word will be written out (often 
depending on size contstraints of the sign itself). 

which is ok, but is it documented and do any of the search entities (such as
Nominatum) actually pay attention to it?

and if this convention hasn't been followed, is it ok if search engines fail
to find the streets because the wrong form is used?

what i'm getting at is that naive users are likely to enter it in either 
form, so we

should endeavor to have both forms work reliably.

richard


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Re: [Talk-us] First vs 1st

[Peter Dobratz]

On Tue, Nov 27, 2012 at 11:55 AM, Richard Welty wrote:

> the rule we frequently follow is to use the format of the name on the sign
> as
> the guideline for what to put in the name tag for a way.
>
> there's a neighborhood in Rotterdam, NY where the signs for the side
> streets along the main drag (Hamburg Street) are spelled out (e.g., Fourth
> Street)
> but the signs interior to the neighborhood are abbreviated (e.g., 4th
> Street.)


I think the key word here is abbreviated.  In the OSM name, the
un-abbreviated form should be used:

name=Fourth Street

To record the abbreviated form, you could use the following:

short_name=4th St

As with all abbreviations, sometimes they will appear on signs and
sometimes the full word will be written out (often depending on size
contstraints of the sign itself).
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Re: [Talk-us] First vs 1st

[Minh Nguyen]

On 2012-11-27 8:55 AM, Richard Welty wrote:

there's a neighborhood in Rotterdam, NY where the signs for the side
streets along the main drag (Hamburg Street) are spelled out (e.g.,
Fourth Street)
but the signs interior to the neighborhood are abbreviated (e.g., 4th
Street.)


Along these lines, at least part of San Jose, CA, spells out 
even-numbered streets but abbreviates odd-numbered ones. Maybe that 
helps folks who learned their numbers but not their numerals? :-)


In Cincinnati, I include the abbreviated form in `name` and the 
spelled-out form in `alt_name`. (Where street signs spell out the 
ordinals, I guess I'd swap the two tags.) I used to always spell out the 
ordinals, for consistency with the "no abbreviations" guideline, but 
that caused too many street names to fall off the map in cluttered 
downtown areas, and Nominatim didn't translate between the two forms.


--
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