[Talk-us] Pennsylvania's quadrant routes
I have happened to notice (mostly in Eastern Pennsylvania) that some users have added these routes from the old 'name_*' tags and putting them in the 'ref=*' tags as ref=SR1234. The problem here is that Pennsylvania doesn't post these routes (except in little white mileage signs [1][2] or/and [just in rural areas normally] an occasional street blade) like the 'normal' state highways numbered 1-999 in the 'Keystone shields'. Also the quadrant routes are duplicated all over the state in each county. Thus, I don't think they would qualify for being added to the 'ref' tag on ways, but also don't truly count for the 'unsigned_ref' tag as well because they are posted in a way, just not really for the traveling public to see unless they were really looking for them. So, I've come up with a possible replacement tag of 'ref:penndot=SR ' [3] for these routes that are only signed with the white mileage signs. With this tag, it still allows the quadrant routes to be added, but not to take up the normal 'ref' tag when it's needed for another route (there are a few normal state routes on quadrant routes, like PA-3 for a small area in Philadelphia, or US-19 Truck in Pittsburgh, or even the Allegheny County Belt System [3] in some areas). What do you guys think about this? If nobody has any problems with them, I think we should fix them as we see them (no bot running unless somebody with knowing how to run one would be willing to do it). I just want to see a constant tagging scheme for them. -James [1] - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_State_Routes_in_Pennsylvania [2] - http://goo.gl/maps/NdVrn [3] - https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/311525727 [4] - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allegheny_County_belt_system ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] Pennsylvania's quadrant routes
On 2015-01-16 00:14, James Mast wrote: So, I've come up with a possible replacement tag of 'ref:penndot=SR ' [3] for these routes that are only signed with the white mileage signs. With this tag, it still allows the quadrant routes to be added, but not to take up the normal 'ref' tag when it's needed for another route (there are a few normal state routes on quadrant routes, like PA-3 for a small area in Philadelphia, or US-19 Truck in Pittsburgh, or even the Allegheny County Belt System [3] in some areas). If PennDOT also maintains the actual state routes, `ref:penndot` may still lead mappers to conflate the two systems. Alternatively, you could use `loc_ref`, unless the Allegheny County belts use it already, or `ref:penndot:quadrant` to be really explicit. -- m...@nguyen.cincinnati.oh.us ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] Pennsylvania's quadrant routes
I’m from PA and I know exactly the little signs that you’re talking about. I agree with everything you suggested about moving the SR ref to a different key. It’s not significant enough to be a “ref”. I’m not sure who “owns” the Pennsylvania wiki page: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Pennsylvania http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Pennsylvania But you might want to add this recommendation there, and maybe some more guidance about classifying highways (like the New Jersey and New York pages have). I’ve considered coding up a cleanup bot - this might be a nice first task for it. So, I've come up with a possible replacement tag of 'ref:penndot=SR ' [3] for these routes that are only signed with the white mileage signs. With this tag, it still allows the quadrant routes to be added, but not to take up the normal 'ref' tag when it's needed for another route (there are a few normal state routes on quadrant routes, like PA-3 for a small area in Philadelphia, or US-19 Truck in Pittsburgh, or even the Allegheny County Belt System [3] in some areas). What do you guys think about this? If nobody has any problems with them, I think we should fix them as we see them (no bot running unless somebody with knowing how to run one would be willing to do it). I just want to see a constant tagging scheme for them. ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] Race Tracks!
On 1/13/15 9:08 AM, Richard Welty wrote: for tagging, i am mostly using ways with highway=raceway. if a direction is discernible (ovals are usually counter clockwise), i set oneway as well. I try to identify the bounding area for the facility and create a landuse=recreation_ground poly with the name and address of the site. i just became aware of the sport=motor tag for leisure=sports_centre and am going to start using this tagging for race tracks instead of landuse=recreation_ground as it is more specific. richard -- rwe...@averillpark.net Averill Park Networking - GIS IT Consulting OpenStreetMap - PostgreSQL - Linux Java - Web Applications - Search ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] Pennsylvania's quadrant routes
I'm very much in favor of PA instead of SR for disambiguation purposes. On Jan 16, 2015 2:15 AM, James Mast rickmastfa...@hotmail.com wrote: I have happened to notice (mostly in Eastern Pennsylvania) that some users have added these routes from the old 'name_*' tags and putting them in the 'ref=*' tags as ref=SR1234. The problem here is that Pennsylvania doesn't post these routes (except in little white mileage signs [1][2] or/and [just in rural areas normally] an occasional street blade) like the 'normal' state highways numbered 1-999 in the 'Keystone shields'. Also the quadrant routes are duplicated all over the state in each county. Thus, I don't think they would qualify for being added to the 'ref' tag on ways, but also don't truly count for the 'unsigned_ref' tag as well because they are posted in a way, just not really for the traveling public to see unless they were really looking for them. So, I've come up with a possible replacement tag of 'ref:penndot=SR ' [3] for these routes that are only signed with the white mileage signs. With this tag, it still allows the quadrant routes to be added, but not to take up the normal 'ref' tag when it's needed for another route (there are a few normal state routes on quadrant routes, like PA-3 for a small area in Philadelphia, or US-19 Truck in Pittsburgh, or even the Allegheny County Belt System [3] in some areas). What do you guys think about this? If nobody has any problems with them, I think we should fix them as we see them (no bot running unless somebody with knowing how to run one would be willing to do it). I just want to see a constant tagging scheme for them. -James [1] - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_State_Routes_in_Pennsylvania [2] - http://goo.gl/maps/NdVrn [3] - https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/311525727 [4] - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allegheny_County_belt_system ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] Pennsylvania's quadrant routes
Bryan, somebody else has already added this info as a suggestion on the 'State Route Relation' page [1]. He was one of the first people I talked to about this idea, and he's a fellow Pittsburgh mapper. -James [1] - https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Pennsylvania/State_Route_Relations#Four_digit_routes From: br...@7thposition.com Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2015 10:08:42 -0500 To: rickmastfa...@hotmail.com CC: talk-us@openstreetmap.org Subject: Re: [Talk-us] Pennsylvania's quadrant routes I’m from PA and I know exactly the little signs that you’re talking about. I agree with everything you suggested about moving the SR ref to a different key. It’s not significant enough to be a “ref”. I’m not sure who “owns” the Pennsylvania wiki page: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/PennsylvaniaBut you might want to add this recommendation there, and maybe some more guidance about classifying highways (like the New Jersey and New York pages have). I’ve considered coding up a cleanup bot - this might be a nice first task for it. So, I've come up with a possible replacement tag of 'ref:penndot=SR ' [3] for these routes that are only signed with the white mileage signs. With this tag, it still allows the quadrant routes to be added, but not to take up the normal 'ref' tag when it's needed for another route (there are a few normal state routes on quadrant routes, like PA-3 for a small area in Philadelphia, or US-19 Truck in Pittsburgh, or even the Allegheny County Belt System [3] in some areas). What do you guys think about this? If nobody has any problems with them, I think we should fix them as we see them (no bot running unless somebody with knowing how to run one would be willing to do it). I just want to see a constant tagging scheme for them. ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] Pennsylvania's quadrant routes
I'm very much in favor of PA instead of SR for disambiguation purposes. +1 on deprecating SR (for state route) where appropriate: using a 2-letter state code is much preferred. However, in this specific case, James Mast makes a convincing argument that SR remain. There are other places where SR might remain (or even replace), but I'm saying where a 2-letter state code can be used, please use it (in preference to SR). Unless a real case can be made for SR, as is true in this PA quadrant route example. SteveA California ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] Pennsylvania's quadrant routes
I understand that there's a difference between signed and unsigned. Oregon has a similar situation with routes and highways. Highways don't get signed, routes do. Every state-owned right of way in Oregon has a highway number and are in ODOT's inventory (including traversable beaches of the Pacific Ocean, making these state highways). Why not, off the top of my head, tag North Gulph Road in Valley Forge with ref:unsigned=PA 3039? (As an aside, I found Pennsylvania's convention for the 4-digit state highways confusing as it happens to collide with Oklahoma's idea of control section markers, which are sometimes used by locals to identify roads intersecting state highways as often these are easier to spot than the names(!) and often make more sense (since the sections are usually serially numbered along the road, similar to exit numbers in areas where these aren't fixed to milestones or kilometer points) it actually took me a couple days to realize that it wasn't identifying control sections but miles along a state route not obvious to the layman). On Fri, Jan 16, 2015 at 12:35 PM, James Mast rickmastfa...@hotmail.com wrote: Paul, if we went with PA instead of SR, people might think to move it back to the main 'ref' tag. SR works here since they are 'primary' routes and the signs say 'SR' in them. Kinda like Virginia with it's primary 'VA' and secondary 'SR' tags for it's two different shields, except PA doesn't have the problem with multiple types of shields. -James -- Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2015 09:52:34 -0600 From: ba...@ursamundi.org To: rickmastfa...@hotmail.com CC: talk-us@openstreetmap.org Subject: Re: [Talk-us] Pennsylvania's quadrant routes I'm very much in favor of PA instead of SR for disambiguation purposes. On Jan 16, 2015 2:15 AM, James Mast rickmastfa...@hotmail.com wrote: I have happened to notice (mostly in Eastern Pennsylvania) that some users have added these routes from the old 'name_*' tags and putting them in the 'ref=*' tags as ref=SR1234. The problem here is that Pennsylvania doesn't post these routes (except in little white mileage signs [1][2] or/and [just in rural areas normally] an occasional street blade) like the 'normal' state highways numbered 1-999 in the 'Keystone shields'. Also the quadrant routes are duplicated all over the state in each county. Thus, I don't think they would qualify for being added to the 'ref' tag on ways, but also don't truly count for the 'unsigned_ref' tag as well because they are posted in a way, just not really for the traveling public to see unless they were really looking for them. So, I've come up with a possible replacement tag of 'ref:penndot=SR ' [3] for these routes that are only signed with the white mileage signs. With this tag, it still allows the quadrant routes to be added, but not to take up the normal 'ref' tag when it's needed for another route (there are a few normal state routes on quadrant routes, like PA-3 for a small area in Philadelphia, or US-19 Truck in Pittsburgh, or even the Allegheny County Belt System [3] in some areas). What do you guys think about this? If nobody has any problems with them, I think we should fix them as we see them (no bot running unless somebody with knowing how to run one would be willing to do it). I just want to see a constant tagging scheme for them. -James [1] - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_State_Routes_in_Pennsylvania http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_State_Routes_in_Pennsylvania [2] - http://goo.gl/maps/NdVrn [3] - https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/311525727 [4] - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allegheny_County_belt_system ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] Pennsylvania's quadrant routes
On 2015-01-16 07:52, Paul Johnson wrote: I'm very much in favor of PA instead of SR for disambiguation purposes. With James' proposal to change `ref` to `ref:penndot` (or something even more explicit like `ref:penndot:quadrant`), there's no need for disambiguation. A prefix of PA isn't going to solve the problem of mappers conflating PennDOT's two networks either. -- m...@nguyen.cincinnati.oh.us ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
