Re: [Talk-us] Importing Tesla Superchargers

[jeremy jozwik]

i saw your post on reddit, i have a friend that works in the hawthorn
design studio. i shall see if i can get you some good information.

On Mon, Apr 13, 2015 at 7:30 PM, Charles Samuels 
wrote:

> On Monday, April 13, 2015 05:01:39 PM Bryce Nesbitt wrote:
> > You'll need to call someone at Tesla to get a better answer: an email has
> > only a low chance of getting a response.
>
> what department do you suggest I contact?
>
> Charles
>
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Re: [Talk-us] Importing Tesla Superchargers

[Charles Samuels]

On Monday, April 13, 2015 05:01:39 PM Bryce Nesbitt wrote:
> You'll need to call someone at Tesla to get a better answer: an email has
> only a low chance of getting a response.

what department do you suggest I contact?

Charles

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Re: [Talk-us] Am I doing this right? Houses w/ addresses

[Jack Burke]

+1


On April 13, 2015 7:32:36 PM EDT, "John F. Eldredge"  
wrote:
>That depends, in part, on how long you want to stand there pecking away
>at your device, and how suspicious folks are likely to become if you
>stand in front of each building for up to several minutes before moving
>on.
>
>
>On April 13, 2015 4:02:24 AM CDT, Simon Poole  wrote:
>> 
>> IMHO if you are actually entering stuff in to a mobile device, you
>may
>> as well use vespucci and just do it properly the first time. But hten
>> I'm biased.
>> 
>> Simon
>> 
>> Am 12.04.2015 um 18:50 schrieb Greg Morgan:
>> > 
>> > 
>> > On Sat, Apr 11, 2015 at 6:35 PM, Harald Kliems > > > wrote:
>> > 
>> > In areas with detached houses, the Android app Keypadmapper has
>> > worked pretty well for me. Once house numbers get too dense
>> (worst
>> > case: Montreal, where each apartment in a duplex or triplex
>will
>> > have it's own house number) it starts getting tricky assigning
>> the
>> > number to the correct building. And yeah, Mapillary imagery can
>> > definitely be useful for address data.
>> > 
>> > 
>> > Keypad mapper is wonderful because you are not as conspicuous when
>> using
>> > pen and paper.  I've tried using ranges were I drop the leading two
>> > digits while entering five digit numbers.  There's a bunch of post
>> > processing when you actually enter the data.  With any technique
>> that I
>> > use, I always feel like Billy in the family circus.  It is amazing
>> where
>> > people put addresses.  Commercial buildings can be the worst case
>to
>> try
>> > and find the number.
>> > 
>> > http://familycircus.com/comics/april-5-2015/
>> >  
>> > 
>> > 
>> > ___
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>> > 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>
>
>> 
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>cannot drive out hate; only love can do that." -- Martin Luther King,
>Jr.
>
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Re: [Talk-us] Importing Tesla Superchargers

[Bryce Nesbitt]

On Mon, Apr 13, 2015 at 4:11 PM, Charles Samuels 
wrote:
>
> I'll see those in the changesets I produce.
>

No, as you've described your process, you won't see those OSM mapper
changes at all, because
they won't show up in your overpass query.


You're jumping into an area with some history in OSM, but not seeming to
listen or look for that history.
Synchronizing data sets can be done safely, but you have to consider the
realities of an open source
data set anyone can edit.  You're not the first to go down this road!
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Re: [Talk-us] Importing Tesla Superchargers

[Bryce Nesbitt]

On Fri, Apr 10, 2015 at 11:28 PM, Charles Samuels 
wrote:

>
> -- Forwarded message --
> From: Keith Winkler 
> To: Charles Samuels 
> Cc:
> Date: Fri, 10 Apr 2015 13:00:52 -0500
> Subject: Re: Importing into OpenStreetMap
> Greetings Charles.
>
> Sure, no problem.
>
> I indeed have no objections to the to geodata derived in part from
> http://supercharge.info/service/supercharge/allSites being incorporated
> into the OpenStreetMap project geodata database and released under a free
> and open
> license.
>
> It is ok to make public my statement to this affect.
>
>
> Cheers,
> Keith
> Creator/Owner/Maintainer of superchare.info


Charles,

To determine if something is licence compatible,  you can't just go one
level deep.
Where did supercharge.info get it's data? Did everyone who contributed
do so under a compatible licence?  Was anything imported?

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Re: [Talk-us] Am I doing this right? Houses w/ addresses

[John F. Eldredge]

That depends, in part, on how long you want to stand there pecking away at your 
device, and how suspicious folks are likely to become if you stand in front of 
each building for up to several minutes before moving on.


On April 13, 2015 4:02:24 AM CDT, Simon Poole  wrote:
> 
> IMHO if you are actually entering stuff in to a mobile device, you may
> as well use vespucci and just do it properly the first time. But hten
> I'm biased.
> 
> Simon
> 
> Am 12.04.2015 um 18:50 schrieb Greg Morgan:
> > 
> > 
> > On Sat, Apr 11, 2015 at 6:35 PM, Harald Kliems  > > wrote:
> > 
> > In areas with detached houses, the Android app Keypadmapper has
> > worked pretty well for me. Once house numbers get too dense
> (worst
> > case: Montreal, where each apartment in a duplex or triplex will
> > have it's own house number) it starts getting tricky assigning
> the
> > number to the correct building. And yeah, Mapillary imagery can
> > definitely be useful for address data.
> > 
> > 
> > Keypad mapper is wonderful because you are not as conspicuous when
> using
> > pen and paper.  I've tried using ranges were I drop the leading two
> > digits while entering five digit numbers.  There's a bunch of post
> > processing when you actually enter the data.  With any technique
> that I
> > use, I always feel like Billy in the family circus.  It is amazing
> where
> > people put addresses.  Commercial buildings can be the worst case to
> try
> > and find the number.
> > 
> > http://familycircus.com/comics/april-5-2015/
> >  
> > 
> > 
> > ___
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> > 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
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Re: [Talk-us] Am I doing this right? Houses w/ addresses

[John F. Eldredge]

Commercial buildings are particularly difficult here in Nashville, TN, because 
about 80% of commercial buildings have no street address posted on the outside. 
Apparently, they aren't required to do so.


On April 12, 2015 11:50:21 AM CDT, Greg Morgan  wrote:
> On Sat, Apr 11, 2015 at 6:35 PM, Harald Kliems 
> wrote:
> 
> > In areas with detached houses, the Android app Keypadmapper has
> worked
> > pretty well for me. Once house numbers get too dense (worst case:
> Montreal,
> > where each apartment in a duplex or triplex will have it's own house
> > number) it starts getting tricky assigning the number to the correct
> > building. And yeah, Mapillary imagery can definitely be useful for
> address
> > data.
> >
> 
> Keypad mapper is wonderful because you are not as conspicuous when
> using
> pen and paper.  I've tried using ranges were I drop the leading two
> digits
> while entering five digit numbers.  There's a bunch of post processing
> when
> you actually enter the data.  With any technique that I use, I always
> feel
> like Billy in the family circus.  It is amazing where people put
> addresses.  Commercial buildings can be the worst case to try and find
> the
> number.
> 
> http://familycircus.com/comics/april-5-2015/
> 
> 
> 
> 
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Re: [Talk-us] Importing Tesla Superchargers

[Charles Samuels]

On Monday, April 13, 2015 03:35:20 PM Bryce Nesbitt wrote:
> Having done a few "up to dating" scripts:
> 
> I recommend looking for nearby amenity=charging_station, not name=
> Supercharger.
> In fact you may want to make this even more "fuzzy", checking for either
> tag.  And
That might conflict with a nearby non-Tesla charger.

> use name:Supercharger not name=Supercharger.
What's the difference? I already use a case-insensitive substring search for 
supercharger.

> 
> OSM mappers will often change things like a name tag.  While it is possibly
> nobody will ever mess
> with the data you left in OSM, but chances are periodically someone will
> hand edit the nodes
> you left.

I'll see those in the changesets I produce.

Charles

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Re: [Talk-us] Importing Tesla Superchargers

[Bryce Nesbitt]

Having done a few "up to dating" scripts:

I recommend looking for nearby amenity=charging_station, not name=
Supercharger.
In fact you may want to make this even more "fuzzy", checking for either
tag.  And
use name:Supercharger not name=Supercharger.

OSM mappers will often change things like a name tag.  While it is possibly
nobody will ever mess
with the data you left in OSM, but chances are periodically someone will
hand edit the nodes
you left.

With superchargers the stations are never close to each other, so proximity
is easy.


For a similar import see the "dero bicycle tool stand" import.
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Re: [Talk-us] [Imports] Importing Tesla Superchargers

[Jack Burke]

"In many cases, the sucket:tesla_supercharger is different"

So Tesla is calling their supercharger sockets "suckets"?

How appropriate. 

-jack


On April 13, 2015 4:24:03 PM EDT, Charles Samuels  
wrote:
>On Sunday, April 12, 2015 05:33:02 PM Greg Troxel wrote:
>> You may actually be right about the likelihood of correctness, and
>this
>> may lead to an expected value of < 0.1 errors per year.  However,
>> imports changing data entered by hand is something that crosses a
>> cultural bright line, and I find it concerning that you're heading
>down
>> that path.  I say that as someone who is usually much more on the
>> pro-import side.
>> 
>> To stay within OSM norms, the thing to do is leave the existing data
>> alone, and publish a list someplace of mismatches.  It's fine to
>write
>> to the person who added it and explain that there's a mismatch and
>ask
>> if they are sure.
>
>Ok, I've made a bunch of changes to the code so that I make fewer
>changes to 
>OSM. Please follow the links in the original email to see the (now
>updated) 
>OSM changefile.
>
>
>> 
>> The other notion in imports is to test  out the process before you do
>> it.  Have you run the conflation code against the osm database, and
>how
>> many cases are there where osm already has a charger station but the
>> tags dont' match?
>
>There are 127 such differences, the vast majority of which are the
>"name" tag. 
>I have manually checked this differences:
>
>- The "name" tags I produce are better than the original
>- If they're not better, I manually adjust them
>- In many cases, the sucket:tesla_supercharger is different, sometimes 
>"capacity" is different too, in all cases, my numbers match Tesla.com's
>- A small number of opening_hours tags are wrong in OSM
>- The resulting .osm file I produce has the old tags in an XML comment
>for 
>convenience.
>- Going forward I can and will look at new conflicts.
>
>Charles
>
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Re: [Talk-us] [Imports] Importing Tesla Superchargers

[Charles Samuels]

On Sunday, April 12, 2015 05:33:02 PM Greg Troxel wrote:
> You may actually be right about the likelihood of correctness, and this
> may lead to an expected value of < 0.1 errors per year.  However,
> imports changing data entered by hand is something that crosses a
> cultural bright line, and I find it concerning that you're heading down
> that path.  I say that as someone who is usually much more on the
> pro-import side.
> 
> To stay within OSM norms, the thing to do is leave the existing data
> alone, and publish a list someplace of mismatches.  It's fine to write
> to the person who added it and explain that there's a mismatch and ask
> if they are sure.

Ok, I've made a bunch of changes to the code so that I make fewer changes to 
OSM. Please follow the links in the original email to see the (now updated) 
OSM changefile.


> 
> The other notion in imports is to test  out the process before you do
> it.  Have you run the conflation code against the osm database, and how
> many cases are there where osm already has a charger station but the
> tags dont' match?

There are 127 such differences, the vast majority of which are the "name" tag. 
I have manually checked this differences:

- The "name" tags I produce are better than the original
- If they're not better, I manually adjust them
- In many cases, the sucket:tesla_supercharger is different, sometimes 
"capacity" is different too, in all cases, my numbers match Tesla.com's
- A small number of opening_hours tags are wrong in OSM
- The resulting .osm file I produce has the old tags in an XML comment for 
convenience.
- Going forward I can and will look at new conflicts.

Charles

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Re: [Talk-us] Happy weekend - join the #Mapathon!

[Alex Barth]

DC went great too. We went out and micro mapped some of the parks around
Dept. of Interior. Expect more updates to come around this area now that
people are entering their data:

http://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=17/38.89465/-77.04202

A few photos of the event here:

http://www.meetup.com/MappingDC/photos/26040874/


On Sun, Apr 12, 2015 at 12:33 PM, Harald Kliems  wrote:

> Madison Maptime Mapathon will begin in 1.5 hours, and it's a beautiful day
> here! In case there are Madisonians on the list who for some strange reason
> have missed the event announcment, please do come!
> http://maptime.io/madison/event/2015/04/12/event/
>
> On Sun, Apr 12, 2015 at 11:28 AM Serge Wroclawski 
> wrote:
>
>> Just want to report that the OSM NYC Meetup yesterday went great!
>>
>> It's a shame that I didn't know the weather today would be a so much
>> warmer, but there's no way to plan for things like that weeks in
>> advance...
>>
>> - Serge
>>
>> On Fri, Apr 10, 2015 at 3:56 PM, Alex Barth 
>> wrote:
>> > Join this weekend at the US wide spring #mapathon. Find the official
>> > locations on the OpenStreetMap US blog or just join from home. All you
>> need
>> > to join is tag your edits #mapathon in the changeset comment. As always,
>> > outdoors surveys and indoors activities are welcome!
>> >
>> > http://openstreetmap.us/2015/04/spring-mapathon/
>> >
>> > Happy weekend everyone -
>> >
>> > Alex
>> >
>> > --
>> > Alex Barth
>> > Vice President
>> > OpenStreetMap United States Inc.
>> >
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>> >
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Re: [Talk-us] Am I doing this right? Houses w/ addresses

[Simon Poole]

Am 13.04.2015 um 16:37 schrieb Tod Fitch:
> My few trial uses of Vespucci lead me to believe that I need an data 
> connection while using it. Am I wrong?
Given that it is a full editor you need connectivity in some form to
initially get the data and then to upload your edits. However this can
be at home, there is nothing that requires connectivity while you are on
the road, you could even conceivable store multiple files on device and
switch between them . Tiles are cached on device so in principle you can
even have imagery on device without connectivity.

Naturally anything that requires  connectivity wont work, auto-download,
nominatim search, etc.

Simon



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Re: [Talk-us] Am I doing this right? Houses w/ addresses

[Tod Fitch]

My few trial uses of Vespucci lead me to believe that I need an data connection 
while using it. Am I wrong?

With OsmPad, KeyPad or OSMtracker I can collect data while off line which is 
very important to me.

Cheers,
Tod

> On Apr 13, 2015, at 2:02 AM, Simon Poole  wrote:
> 
> 
> IMHO if you are actually entering stuff in to a mobile device, you may
> as well use vespucci and just do it properly the first time. But hten
> I'm biased.
> 
> Simon
> 



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Re: [Talk-us] [Imports] Importing Tesla Superchargers

[Marc Gemis]

Do you think anybody will do the effort to correct some of the data, when
it will be overwritten again with each update ? That's why people ask not
to overwrite the data automatically.



regards


m

p.s. it's annoying that this is cross-posted on 2 mailing lists, I'm only
subscribed to one of them.
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Re: [Talk-us] Am I doing this right? Houses w/ addresses

[Simon Poole]

IMHO if you are actually entering stuff in to a mobile device, you may
as well use vespucci and just do it properly the first time. But hten
I'm biased.

Simon

Am 12.04.2015 um 18:50 schrieb Greg Morgan:
> 
> 
> On Sat, Apr 11, 2015 at 6:35 PM, Harald Kliems  > wrote:
> 
> In areas with detached houses, the Android app Keypadmapper has
> worked pretty well for me. Once house numbers get too dense (worst
> case: Montreal, where each apartment in a duplex or triplex will
> have it's own house number) it starts getting tricky assigning the
> number to the correct building. And yeah, Mapillary imagery can
> definitely be useful for address data.
> 
> 
> Keypad mapper is wonderful because you are not as conspicuous when using
> pen and paper.  I've tried using ranges were I drop the leading two
> digits while entering five digit numbers.  There's a bunch of post
> processing when you actually enter the data.  With any technique that I
> use, I always feel like Billy in the family circus.  It is amazing where
> people put addresses.  Commercial buildings can be the worst case to try
> and find the number.
> 
> http://familycircus.com/comics/april-5-2015/
>  
> 
> 
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Re: [Talk-us] [Imports] Importing Tesla Superchargers

[Frederik Ramm]

Hi,

On 04/13/2015 10:23 AM, Greg Morgan wrote:
> Oh my goodness.  Once again we have the alleged notion that imports will
> drive off mappers without examining any real data.

No. It appears that you're going off on a tangent without examining the
messages that were written ;)

Until now I can't see anyone who has said "don't import the
superchargers, it will drive off mappers". What I see is "don't
overwrite existing, manually collected information in an automated
process", and that is, as Greg correctly says, a "cultural bright line"
that will not be crossed with impunity.

Bye
Frederik

-- 
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Re: [Talk-us] [Imports] Importing Tesla Superchargers

[Greg Morgan]

Oh my goodness.  Once again we have the alleged notion that imports will
drive off mappers without examining any real data. If we look at the
Buckeye Charger we see that fredo_p, a A Hit-and-Run Mapper, added the
original node.  He's still a mapper. Theodin a German mapper added
something. AndiG88 another German mapper added something.  Finally njaard
touched the same node.  The German mappers did nothing different that what
njaard did.  They looked up that there were 8 charging ports on the Tesla
site.  I surveyed the site and see no problem with what has gone on with
this node.  The question I have is should there be eight nodes for each
station since one is required for each parking spot along with a
wall/building for the transformer where the address is located?  The name
issue may not be a factor since you can Google on either the address or
name.  Note that all the mappers involved including me the surveyor are
still mapping.  I am surprised that we did not loose fredo_p--last modifier
of 95 nodes, 16 ways and 0 relationships--with the mapper's first
experience of a node that does not render. I hope that we don't loose
njaard--last modifier of 2,900 nodes, 663 ways, and 30 relationships--over
a node still does not render with a cute little icon.  In may case, I lost
interest in mapping all EV chargers because there's no reward for mapping
them.  There was the reward of finding three of the four types of chargers
used in the US. There was the reward of understanding the problems with
making EV work. Sure the nodes are in the database but I do not experience
the reward of seeing the node on the map like a regular gas station node.
In my view it is not the importers that are killing mappers it is the
cartographers that only show a portion of what can be mapped.
https://www.google.com/search?q=mapbox+sudio+data+project&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8#q=buckeye+arizona+tesla+charger
http://www.teslamotors.com/findus/location?place=buckeyesupercharger
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/File:Cs_us_tesla_buckeye_charger.png
http://www.openstreetmap.org/node/2776570644/history#map=19/33.44263/-112.55724
http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/fredo_p
http://hdyc.neis-one.org/?fredo_p
http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/Theodin
http://hdyc.neis-one.org/?Theodin
http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/AndiG88
http://hdyc.neis-one.org/?AndiG88
http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/njaard
http://hdyc.neis-one.org/?njaard

I am guessing that this will bounce because I am not on the import list.

HTH,
Greg


On Sun, Apr 12, 2015 at 5:33 PM, Greg Troxel  wrote:

>
> Charles Samuels  writes:
>
> > On Sunday, April 12, 2015 01:12:12 AM Andy Allan wrote:
> >> > Right now, if a tag doesn't match with supercharge.info, I overwrite
> >> > OSM's.
> >>
> >> Could you explain this a bit further? For example, if supercharge.info
> >> has capacity 6, and I correct this to capacity 8, does your script
> >> then overwrite my tag and change it back to the incorrect value?
> >
> > Correct. My intent is that I expect OSM to be no better than
> supercharge.info,
> > so for now it's easiest to just overwrite. Then on following runs of it,
> I
> > manually investigate the changes made in OSM and reconcile the
> differences.
>
> You may actually be right about the likelihood of correctness, and this
> may lead to an expected value of < 0.1 errors per year.  However,
> imports changing data entered by hand is something that crosses a
> cultural bright line, and I find it concerning that you're heading down
> that path.  I say that as someone who is usually much more on the
> pro-import side.
>
> To stay within OSM norms, the thing to do is leave the existing data
> alone, and publish a list someplace of mismatches.  It's fine to write
> to the person who added it and explain that there's a mismatch and ask
> if they are sure.
>
> The other notion in imports is to test  out the process before you do
> it.  Have you run the conflation code against the osm database, and how
> many cases are there where osm already has a charger station but the
> tags dont' match?
>
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