Re: [Talk-us] Extra wide shoulders / travel lanes in NJ

[Paul Johnson]

On Tue, Oct 13, 2015 at 11:11 AM, Jim McAndrew  wrote:

> Sorry for the google maps links on this, but I've found NJ's use of
> shoulders (or "curb lanes") as bike lanes kind of strange. I would tag this
> as cycleway=lane but nothing for shoulder.


Those aren't shoulders, those are bike lanes.  There's no shoulders there.
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Re: [Talk-us] Extra wide shoulders / travel lanes in NJ

[John Eldredge]

My experience elsewhere is that shoulders are not considered legal driving 
lanes for motor vehicles, except under special circumstances, such as a 
construction zone where a normal driving lane has been shut down. People 
who try to use the shoulder as a driving lane receive traffic citations.


--
John F. Eldredge -- j...@jfeldredge.com
"Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot 
drive out hate; only love can do that." -- Martin Luther King, Jr.




On October 12, 2015 11:05:12 PM Jack Burke  wrote:


Wait, question:

Are these shoulder lanes under discussion *only* for bicycles, or for motor
vehicles as well?

--jack


On Mon, Oct 12, 2015 at 11:47 PM, Elliott Plack 
wrote:


Mike,

I have not seen the Shoulder or Lanes tags in wide use yet. I use the
cycleway tags on the highway line way to denote bike lanes that are part of
the road surface, as it seems your case is. (cycleway:right=lane). Though
in this case it is arguable if the shoulder is a lane. What is certain is
that most cyclists treat shoulders as such.
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:cycleway

I'm interested in routing and the Open Source Routing Map project. Cycle
and ped routing is especially interesting to me as an athlete, and so I
looked on the ORSM backend for clues on how they're handling shared lanes
and such. Looks like one of these tagging combos will work:
https://github.com/Project-OSRM/osrm-backend/blob/8f8bd05f83fa2ccc542c2c44761f548a1e8b7579/features/bicycle/cycleway.feature

Elliott

On Mon, Oct 12, 2015 at 2:15 PM Mike Dupont <
jamesmikedup...@googlemail.com> wrote:


Hi there,
This road cr 546 (http://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/566939) and
many others here in the area has extra wide  wide shoulders that
people use for walking or biking. How do you want to tag them as such
so that we can also use that for routing?

Here is a table of the segments with lane information

http://lawrencetwp.com/documents/planning/Route546BikewayBicycleCompatibilityMatrix.pdf

I see http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Shoulder and
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Lanes what are your thoughts on a
detailed tagging for this information.


thanks
mike

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[Talk-us] Whole-US Garmin Map update - 2015-10-14

[Dave Hansen]

These are based off of Lambertus's work here:

http://garmin.openstreetmap.nl

If you have questions or comments about these maps, please feel
free to ask.  However, please do not send me private mail.  The
odds are, someone else will have the same questions, and by
asking on the talk-us@ list, others can benefit.

Downloads:

http://daveh.dev.openstreetmap.org/garmin/Lambertus/2015-10-14

Map to visualize what each file contains:


http://daveh.dev.openstreetmap.org/garmin/Lambertus/2015-10-14/kml/kml.html


FAQ



Why did you do this?

I wrote scripts to joined them myself to lessen the impact
of doing a large join on Lambertus's server.  I've also
cut them in large longitude swaths that should fit conveniently
on removable media.  

http://daveh.dev.openstreetmap.org/garmin/Lambertus/2015-10-14

Can or should I seed the torrents?

Yes!!  If you use the .torrent files, please seed.  That web
server is in the UK, and it helps to have some peers on this
side of the Atlantic.

Why is my map missing small rectangular areas?

There have been some missing tiles from Lambertus's map (the
red rectangles),  I don't see any at the moment, so you may
want to update if you had issues with the last set.

Why can I not copy the large files to my new SD card?

If you buy a new card (especially SDHC), some are FAT16 from
the factory.  I had to reformat it to let me create a >2GB
file.

Does your map cover Mexico/Canada?

Yes!!  I have, for the purposes of this map, annexed Ontario
in to the USA.  Some areas of North America that are close
to the US also just happen to get pulled in to these maps.
This might not happen forever, and if you would like your
non-US area to get included, let me know. 

-- Dave


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Re: [Talk-us] Extra wide shoulders / travel lanes in NJ

[Paul Johnson]

On Tue, Oct 13, 2015 at 12:24 AM, Mike Dupont <
jamesmikedup...@googlemail.com> wrote:

> These are used as an extra turning lane for cars, so going around
> corners can be dangerous for cyclists or joggers or walkers who all
> share them.


Is that common practice or is there legal precident?  I mean, people turn
right from straddling the curb between the bike lane and the sidewalk in
metro Portland, but it's certainly not a legal move.  And OHP just loves
giving people tickets for driving on the shoulder when you're about to turn
right in Oklahoma (particularly on SH66/Future USBR66/OKBR66)
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[Talk-us] Missing Roads data dumps

[Martijn van Exel]

Hi all,

After two weeks almost 10% of missing road tiles have been resolved. Pretty
nice! Thanks for checking out the tool. Continue to send me your ideas for
improvement, or go to http://bit.ly/missing-roads-feedback to post it there.

We decided also to release the data behind the tool - as of a few days ago
we have been posting daily dumps. See my diary entry for more info:
http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/mvexel/diary/36126. Let me know if you
find it useful.

Happy mapping --
Martijn
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Re: [Talk-us] Increasing the number of US Mappers

[Simon Poole]

A quick reality check: forget scraping stuff from FB or any other
commercial operator of similar services (for legal/ToS reasons).

And second: there is already the OSM forums which, depending on region,
are quite popular.

Further: none-of the above are really a replacement for a  integrated
group facility which can support very fine grained and self-organized
grouping of contributors with common interests (or whatever).

Simon

Am 16.10.2015 um 04:59 schrieb stevea:




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[Talk-us] How to Vote?

[Alan Bragg]

​I cannot find information on "how to vote" at the website openstreetmap.us.
Can someone help me?

Alan
​Bedford MA​
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Re: [Talk-us] How to Vote?

[Ian Dees]

Hi Alan,

You should have just received an e-mail with instructions for how to vote.
Let me know if you haven't.

-Ian

On Fri, Oct 16, 2015 at 8:01 AM, Alan Bragg  wrote:

> ​I cannot find information on "how to vote" at the website
> openstreetmap.us. Can someone help me?
>
> Alan
> ​Bedford MA​
>
>
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Re: [Talk-us] Increasing the number of US Mappers

[Mike Dupont]

On Thu, Oct 15, 2015 at 9:33 AM, Greg Troxel  wrote:
> Except that osm is part of the Free Sofware / Open Data world, and it
> isn't reasonable to expect contributors to have a relationship with an
> advertising company.

second that.

So, it woudl be nice to be able to invite everyone who is in some area
to a meetup, a geonotice.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Geonotice something that would
work with different editors.

mike

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[Talk-us] Legislative districts, Land-use zoning, etc.

[Charles P. Lamb]

Looking thorough the OSM Wiki Map Features entry there didn't really 
seem to be features defined for such things as legislative districts, 
polling place districts, and land-use zoning. I don't think such 
features are peculiar to the USA. Am I missing something?


Thanks,

Charles P. Lamb
New Jersey

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Re: [Talk-us] Legislative districts, Land-use zoning, etc.

[Toby Murray]

OSM is not the ideal tool to be a dumping ground for all GIS data. It
excels at holding information that users can see, verify and update.
Boundaries like this cannot be seen or verified by anyone except the
government agency that originally made them. So the data gains no
benefit from being in OSM and in fact makes it more difficult to
update both the boundary data as well as non-boundary data in the
vicinity.

Yes, we do have national/state/county/city boundaries. Some people
aren't happy about this either... but they are tolerated because they
enable geocoding functionality.

Toby

On Fri, Oct 16, 2015 at 1:19 AM, Charles P. Lamb  wrote:
> Looking thorough the OSM Wiki Map Features entry there didn't really seem to
> be features defined for such things as legislative districts, polling place
> districts, and land-use zoning. I don't think such features are peculiar to
> the USA. Am I missing something?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Charles P. Lamb
> New Jersey
>
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Re: [Talk-us] How to Vote?

[Alan Bragg]

Ian, Thank you, I received the instructions 10 minutes after I posted to
the list. I'm assuming that my problem was because I only joined yesterday
after watching the video at
https://openstreetmap.us/2015/10/candidates-townhall/

It amazes me how much there is to learn about OSM. I learn the most by
reading  http://www.weeklyosm.eu/ which I receive every week by email.
Alan

On Fri, Oct 16, 2015 at 8:34 AM, Ian Dees  wrote:

> Hi Alan,
>
> You should have just received an e-mail with instructions for how to vote.
> Let me know if you haven't.
>
> -Ian
>
> On Fri, Oct 16, 2015 at 8:01 AM, Alan Bragg 
> wrote:
>
>> ​I cannot find information on "how to vote" at the website
>> openstreetmap.us. Can someone help me?
>>
>> Alan
>> ​Bedford MA​
>>
>>
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Re: [Talk-us] Extra wide shoulders / travel lanes in NJ

[Jack Burke]

Normally yes.  But just north of Atlanta we have a freeway called Georgia 400, 
and several miles of it are signed that the shoulder lanes are allowed for all 
motor vehicle traffic between certain hours, albeit with a lower spec limit 
than the regular lanes. 

-jack

On October 16, 2015 4:29:32 PM EDT, John Eldredge  wrote:
>My experience elsewhere is that shoulders are not considered legal
>driving 
>lanes for motor vehicles, except under special circumstances, such as a
>
>construction zone where a normal driving lane has been shut down.
>People 
>who try to use the shoulder as a driving lane receive traffic
>citations.
>
>-- 
>John F. Eldredge -- j...@jfeldredge.com
>"Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate
>cannot 
>drive out hate; only love can do that." -- Martin Luther King, Jr.
>
>
>
>On October 12, 2015 11:05:12 PM Jack Burke  wrote:
>
>> Wait, question:
>>
>> Are these shoulder lanes under discussion *only* for bicycles, or for
>motor
>> vehicles as well?
>>
>> --jack
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Oct 12, 2015 at 11:47 PM, Elliott Plack
>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Mike,
>>>
>>> I have not seen the Shoulder or Lanes tags in wide use yet. I use
>the
>>> cycleway tags on the highway line way to denote bike lanes that are
>part of
>>> the road surface, as it seems your case is. (cycleway:right=lane).
>Though
>>> in this case it is arguable if the shoulder is a lane. What is
>certain is
>>> that most cyclists treat shoulders as such.
>>> http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:cycleway
>>>
>>> I'm interested in routing and the Open Source Routing Map project.
>Cycle
>>> and ped routing is especially interesting to me as an athlete, and
>so I
>>> looked on the ORSM backend for clues on how they're handling shared
>lanes
>>> and such. Looks like one of these tagging combos will work:
>>>
>https://github.com/Project-OSRM/osrm-backend/blob/8f8bd05f83fa2ccc542c2c44761f548a1e8b7579/features/bicycle/cycleway.feature
>>>
>>> Elliott
>>>
>>> On Mon, Oct 12, 2015 at 2:15 PM Mike Dupont <
>>> jamesmikedup...@googlemail.com> wrote:
>>>
 Hi there,
 This road cr 546 (http://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/566939) and
 many others here in the area has extra wide  wide shoulders that
 people use for walking or biking. How do you want to tag them as
>such
 so that we can also use that for routing?

 Here is a table of the segments with lane information


>http://lawrencetwp.com/documents/planning/Route546BikewayBicycleCompatibilityMatrix.pdf

 I see http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Shoulder and
 http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Lanes what are your thoughts on
>a
 detailed tagging for this information.


 thanks
 mike

 --
 James Michael DuPont
 Kansas Linux Fest http://kansaslinuxfest.us
 Free/Libre Open Source and Open Knowledge Association of Kansas
 http://openkansas.us
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 Saving Wikipedia(tm) articles from deletion
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 Talk-us@openstreetmap.org
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Re: [Talk-us] Increasing the number of US Mappers

[stevea]

Simon Poole writes:
forget scraping stuff from FB or any other commercial operator of 
similar services (for legal/ToS reasons).


Fine, no scraping.  Even as the online communication world remains a 
Babel Tower of proprietary data islands, OSM can still create and 
continually improve what Simon and this thread seem to be expressing 
a serious need for us to better articulate:  "an integrated group 
facility which can support very fine grained and self-organized 
grouping of contributors with common interests (or whatever)."  That 
comes pretty close to describing what I would like to see emerge, so 
thank you for that articulation, Simon.


This is notwithstanding what Simon also mentions, that
 "there is already the OSM forums which, depending on region, are 
quite popular."


Yes, our forums are popular (and this is one of the "other places" I 
mentioned earlier), but they don't meet all our needs.  Do we keep 
them, grow them or discard them (once something better is built)?  We 
should leverage their popularity, to the extent they are (regionally).


Do we build this "integrated group facility" from scratch?  Using 
off-the-shelf (open-source) tools to get a jump-start?  How do we 
solicit input from our community to establish the feature set and 
overall design?  This is a long-term goal and has far-reaching 
consequences to grow mappers (in the US and elsewhere).  I strongly 
believe we should put serious effort into it, beginning with serious 
discussion.  This may or may not be the right forum to do so, but 
please:  let us not drop this dialog somewhere and fail to pick it up 
again.


I'm no Mark Zuckerberg or billionaire, but in 1983-4 I started a 
tree-based forum on University of California student open-access 
minicomputers.  I saw how quickly and powerfully it became an 
extremely popular, widely-used communication medium precisely because 
of its "very fine grained and self-organized grouping of contributors 
with common interests."


OSM needs the same kind of medium.  Today, or soon.  It really WILL 
increase our number of mappers.


SteveA
California

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Re: [Talk-us] Increasing the number of US Mappers

[Mike Dupont]

On Fri, Oct 16, 2015 at 9:11 PM, stevea  wrote:

> OSM needs the same kind of medium.  Today, or soon.  It really WILL
> increase our number of mappers.


How about single sign on, we dont need multiple accounts for all these web
resources.


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Re: [Talk-us] Extra wide shoulders / travel lanes in NJ

[Mike Dupont]

Here in NJ they pass you on the right on these lanes, it is totally insane.

On Fri, Oct 16, 2015 at 4:29 PM, John Eldredge  wrote:
> My experience elsewhere is that shoulders are not considered legal driving
> lanes for motor vehicles, except under special circumstances, such as a
> construction zone where a normal driving lane has been shut down. People who
> try to use the shoulder as a driving lane receive traffic citations.
>
> --
> John F. Eldredge -- j...@jfeldredge.com
> "Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot
> drive out hate; only love can do that." -- Martin Luther King, Jr.
>
> On October 12, 2015 11:05:12 PM Jack Burke  wrote:
>>
>> Wait, question:
>>
>> Are these shoulder lanes under discussion *only* for bicycles, or for
>> motor vehicles as well?
>>
>> --jack
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Oct 12, 2015 at 11:47 PM, Elliott Plack 
>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Mike,
>>>
>>> I have not seen the Shoulder or Lanes tags in wide use yet. I use the
>>> cycleway tags on the highway line way to denote bike lanes that are part of
>>> the road surface, as it seems your case is. (cycleway:right=lane). Though in
>>> this case it is arguable if the shoulder is a lane. What is certain is that
>>> most cyclists treat shoulders as such.
>>> http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:cycleway
>>>
>>> I'm interested in routing and the Open Source Routing Map project. Cycle
>>> and ped routing is especially interesting to me as an athlete, and so I
>>> looked on the ORSM backend for clues on how they're handling shared lanes
>>> and such. Looks like one of these tagging combos will work:
>>> https://github.com/Project-OSRM/osrm-backend/blob/8f8bd05f83fa2ccc542c2c44761f548a1e8b7579/features/bicycle/cycleway.feature
>>>
>>> Elliott
>>>
>>> On Mon, Oct 12, 2015 at 2:15 PM Mike Dupont
>>>  wrote:

 Hi there,
 This road cr 546 (http://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/566939) and
 many others here in the area has extra wide  wide shoulders that
 people use for walking or biking. How do you want to tag them as such
 so that we can also use that for routing?

 Here is a table of the segments with lane information

 http://lawrencetwp.com/documents/planning/Route546BikewayBicycleCompatibilityMatrix.pdf

 I see http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Shoulder and
 http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Lanes what are your thoughts on a
 detailed tagging for this information.


 thanks
 mike

 --
 James Michael DuPont
 Kansas Linux Fest http://kansaslinuxfest.us
 Free/Libre Open Source and Open Knowledge Association of Kansas
 http://openkansas.us
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 Saving Wikipedia(tm) articles from deletion
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Re: [Talk-us] Increasing the number of US Mappers

[stevea]

Mike Dupont writes:
How about single sign on, we dont need multiple accounts for all 
these web resources.


I thought of this, but didn't mention it, as we have something 
similar going on with both OSM wiki accounts and OSM edit accounts. 
The reason is that the rights/attributions are different (wiki post 
rights/attributions differ from the ODBL which guides OSM edit 
rights/attributions).  While some harmonization of logins/signons is 
a good idea, we should do so where we can, but let's recognize that 
in some circumstances, we can't.


SteveA
California

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