Re: [Talk-us] Need advice on a project i've taken on

[Minh Nguyen]

On 11/06/2017 16:19, Hans De Kryger wrote:


On Sun, Jun 11, 2017 at 1:38 PM, Shawn K. Quinn > wrote:


What exactly is the rationale behind removing the zip code data?


​The usefulness is nonexistent ​


In the past, I've used these tags to sanity-check addr:postcode tags on 
nearby POIs. I'm aware that ZIP codes are more complex than meets the 
eye [1], although the left/right modeling used in the TIGER import is at 
least consistent with ZIPs-as-routes. It was handy, but there are other 
ways to sanity-check addr:postcode tags anyhow.


[1] https://github.com/iandees/wtf-zipcodes

--
m...@nguyen.cincinnati.oh.us


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Re: [Talk-us] Need advice on a project i've taken on

[Hans De Kryger]

You can see the progress i've made so far
http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/TheDutchMan13

*Regards,*

*Hans*

On Sun, Jun 11, 2017 at 4:21 PM, Hans De Kryger 
wrote:

>
>
> *Regards,*
>
> *Hans*
>
> On Sun, Jun 11, 2017 at 1:32 PM, Andrew Matheny 
> wrote:
>
>> I think Walter makes a fair point, but on the other hand, issues with
>> TIGER data are easily apparent when looking at the streets (ways aren't
>> straight, curves are messy, intersections aren't square, etc.) or when
>> armchair mappers compare them to the imagery. If they're wanting to figure
>> out which ways may need review for geometry, the variety of philosophies on
>> the tiger:reviewed key should allow a search using that (since the most
>> liberal user usually removes the key after they fix geometry while the most
>> conservative leaves it until on-the-ground checking is done)
>>
>> Other fields (like speed limits, surface, etc.) are only going to be
>> there if a user added that data at a later date. If someone's looking to
>> add those missing fields, I think they'd be more likely to run an OverPass
>> query or do a simple JOSM search of the objects in their dataframe rather
>> than going by the date it was last edited.
>>
>> I think this is a great idea. To address Walter's point, I would think
>> about using a special username for this project (like TIGERzipremoval or
>> something) and making sure your changeset comments cleary state that it's
>> an automated edit to remove the obsolete tags. That way it's easy to see
>> when anyone pulls up a way's history.
>>
>
> ​I would, but i already made over a million edits so far on my account.
> ​See link https://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/keys/tiger:zip_left#map
>
>>
>> On Sun, Jun 11, 2017 at 4:55 AM, Walter Nordmann 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> In Germany we say: don't touch an object just for cleanup.
>>>
>>> Cleanup without any other modifications (e.g in geometry)  will change
>>> the timestamp of that object (last changed!!!) and somebody may think: this
>>> way has been modified last week - so i don't need to check the geometry or
>>> the speed limit or something else.
>>>
>>> Ok, if you really change something, THEN you should cleanup old/unused
>>> tags.
>>>
>>> Regards
>>> walter, aka wambacher
>>>
>>>
>>> Am 11.06.2017 um 05:21 schrieb Mike N:
>>>
  I agree that removing the non standard tags is almost always OK.

  What is the advantage of removing them all with an automated edit?
 Their presence doesn't damage anything, and editors can add those tags to
 their passive removal list.

   The TIGER name expansion resulted in a large benefit by removing a
 manual task.   Changing unused tags would only add to the history file for
 a small benefit.

>>>
>>>
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Re: [Talk-us] Need advice on a project i've taken on

[Hans De Kryger]

*Regards,*

*Hans*

On Sun, Jun 11, 2017 at 1:32 PM, Andrew Matheny 
wrote:

> I think Walter makes a fair point, but on the other hand, issues with
> TIGER data are easily apparent when looking at the streets (ways aren't
> straight, curves are messy, intersections aren't square, etc.) or when
> armchair mappers compare them to the imagery. If they're wanting to figure
> out which ways may need review for geometry, the variety of philosophies on
> the tiger:reviewed key should allow a search using that (since the most
> liberal user usually removes the key after they fix geometry while the most
> conservative leaves it until on-the-ground checking is done)
>
> Other fields (like speed limits, surface, etc.) are only going to be there
> if a user added that data at a later date. If someone's looking to add
> those missing fields, I think they'd be more likely to run an OverPass
> query or do a simple JOSM search of the objects in their dataframe rather
> than going by the date it was last edited.
>
> I think this is a great idea. To address Walter's point, I would think
> about using a special username for this project (like TIGERzipremoval or
> something) and making sure your changeset comments cleary state that it's
> an automated edit to remove the obsolete tags. That way it's easy to see
> when anyone pulls up a way's history.
>

​I would, but i already made over a million edits so far on my account.
​See link https://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/keys/tiger:zip_left#map

>
> On Sun, Jun 11, 2017 at 4:55 AM, Walter Nordmann  wrote:
>
>> In Germany we say: don't touch an object just for cleanup.
>>
>> Cleanup without any other modifications (e.g in geometry)  will change
>> the timestamp of that object (last changed!!!) and somebody may think: this
>> way has been modified last week - so i don't need to check the geometry or
>> the speed limit or something else.
>>
>> Ok, if you really change something, THEN you should cleanup old/unused
>> tags.
>>
>> Regards
>> walter, aka wambacher
>>
>>
>> Am 11.06.2017 um 05:21 schrieb Mike N:
>>
>>>  I agree that removing the non standard tags is almost always OK.
>>>
>>>  What is the advantage of removing them all with an automated edit?
>>> Their presence doesn't damage anything, and editors can add those tags to
>>> their passive removal list.
>>>
>>>   The TIGER name expansion resulted in a large benefit by removing a
>>> manual task.   Changing unused tags would only add to the history file for
>>> a small benefit.
>>>
>>
>>
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Re: [Talk-us] Need advice on a project i've taken on

[Hans De Kryger]

*Regards,*

*Hans*

On Sun, Jun 11, 2017 at 1:38 PM, Shawn K. Quinn 
wrote:

> On 06/10/2017 03:40 PM, Hans De Kryger wrote:
> > I started about 2 weeks ago removing tiger zip data (Left & Right) from
> > Arizona, my home state. When i finished i thought i'd continue with a
> > few other states. As of now i've finished 15 states (1). The project is
> > currently on hold due to concern from other mappers. I'm aware that mass
> > edits on tiger data is not helpful due to it being hard to tell if it
> > was touched since the tiger import.
>
> What exactly is the rationale behind removing the zip code data?
>

​The usefulness is nonexistent ​

>
> --
> Shawn K. Quinn 
> http://www.rantroulette.com
> http://www.skqrecordquest.com
>
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Re: [Talk-us] Need advice on a project i've taken on

[Shawn K. Quinn]

On 06/10/2017 03:40 PM, Hans De Kryger wrote:
> I started about 2 weeks ago removing tiger zip data (Left & Right) from
> Arizona, my home state. When i finished i thought i'd continue with a
> few other states. As of now i've finished 15 states (1). The project is
> currently on hold due to concern from other mappers. I'm aware that mass
> edits on tiger data is not helpful due to it being hard to tell if it
> was touched since the tiger import.

What exactly is the rationale behind removing the zip code data?

-- 
Shawn K. Quinn 
http://www.rantroulette.com
http://www.skqrecordquest.com

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Re: [Talk-us] Need advice on a project i've taken on

[Andrew Matheny]

I think Walter makes a fair point, but on the other hand, issues with TIGER
data are easily apparent when looking at the streets (ways aren't straight,
curves are messy, intersections aren't square, etc.) or when armchair
mappers compare them to the imagery. If they're wanting to figure out which
ways may need review for geometry, the variety of philosophies on the
tiger:reviewed key should allow a search using that (since the most liberal
user usually removes the key after they fix geometry while the most
conservative leaves it until on-the-ground checking is done)

Other fields (like speed limits, surface, etc.) are only going to be there
if a user added that data at a later date. If someone's looking to add
those missing fields, I think they'd be more likely to run an OverPass
query or do a simple JOSM search of the objects in their dataframe rather
than going by the date it was last edited.

I think this is a great idea. To address Walter's point, I would think
about using a special username for this project (like TIGERzipremoval or
something) and making sure your changeset comments cleary state that it's
an automated edit to remove the obsolete tags. That way it's easy to see
when anyone pulls up a way's history.

On Sun, Jun 11, 2017 at 4:55 AM, Walter Nordmann  wrote:

> In Germany we say: don't touch an object just for cleanup.
>
> Cleanup without any other modifications (e.g in geometry)  will change the
> timestamp of that object (last changed!!!) and somebody may think: this way
> has been modified last week - so i don't need to check the geometry or the
> speed limit or something else.
>
> Ok, if you really change something, THEN you should cleanup old/unused
> tags.
>
> Regards
> walter, aka wambacher
>
>
> Am 11.06.2017 um 05:21 schrieb Mike N:
>
>>  I agree that removing the non standard tags is almost always OK.
>>
>>  What is the advantage of removing them all with an automated edit? Their
>> presence doesn't damage anything, and editors can add those tags to their
>> passive removal list.
>>
>>   The TIGER name expansion resulted in a large benefit by removing a
>> manual task.   Changing unused tags would only add to the history file for
>> a small benefit.
>>
>
>
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Re: [Talk-us] NJ mass road demotions?

[ajt1...@gmail.com]

On 11/06/2017 19:52, Peter Dobratz wrote:
I've found that even active OSM contributors don't necessarily check 
the email address associated with their OSM account.  If that is the 
case, they may have not yet seen any changeset comments you have made 
on their changesets.


Indeed - and if they continually ignore those then drop the DWG a mail 
on d...@osmfoundation.org so that we can send them a friendly "message 
that has to be read" before they continue editing.  However in this case 
they've only had 1 changeset discussion comment per month:


http://resultmaps.neis-one.org/osm-discussion-comments?uid=4337895

so they might have just forgotten the previous comment when seeing the 
next, and comments that directly invite a reply (i.e. "talk to us here" 
rather than "do X next time") might be more likely to get interaction.  
Also their last edit was a month ago so they probably haven't seen 
Bryan's detailed comment on 
https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/46561481 yet.


Best Regards,
Andy (from OSM's Data Working Group)



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Re: [Talk-us] NJ mass road demotions?

[Peter Dobratz]

I've found that even active OSM contributors don't necessarily check the
email address associated with their OSM account.  If that is the case, they
may have not yet seen any changeset comments you have made on their
changesets.

It's good to follow up with an OSM private message as these pop-up when you
log in to www.openstreetmap.org or start an editor like JOSM.

Peter



On Sun, Jun 11, 2017 at 3:36 AM, Richard Fairhurst 
wrote:

> Bryan Housel wrote:
> > What’s an acceptable amount of time to wait for a response before I
> > just start reverting?
>
> I commented on another of granpueblo's changesets on 21st May and have also
> not had a response yet. Given that, you probably only need to wait just a
> couple of days before embarking on a revert.
>
> (More generally, we need to think about how we communicate "be bold in what
> you add, careful in what you change" to new mappers. We see this fairly
> often in the UK too - over-assertive changes from someone who, through no
> fault of their own, doesn't understand OSM conventions; and on occasion the
> response ends up putting the contributor off continuing with OSM.)
>
> Richard
>
>
>
> --
> View this message in context: http://gis.19327.n8.nabble.
> com/NJ-mass-road-demotions-tp5894719p5897753.html
> Sent from the USA mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>
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Re: [Talk-us] Need advice on a project i've taken on

[Walter Nordmann]

In Germany we say: don't touch an object just for cleanup.

Cleanup without any other modifications (e.g in geometry)  will change 
the timestamp of that object (last changed!!!) and somebody may think: 
this way has been modified last week - so i don't need to check the 
geometry or the speed limit or something else.


Ok, if you really change something, THEN you should cleanup old/unused tags.

Regards
walter, aka wambacher

Am 11.06.2017 um 05:21 schrieb Mike N:

 I agree that removing the non standard tags is almost always OK.

 What is the advantage of removing them all with an automated edit? 
Their presence doesn't damage anything, and editors can add those tags 
to their passive removal list.


  The TIGER name expansion resulted in a large benefit by removing a 
manual task.   Changing unused tags would only add to the history file 
for a small benefit.



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Re: [Talk-us] NJ mass road demotions?

[Richard Fairhurst]

Bryan Housel wrote:
> What’s an acceptable amount of time to wait for a response before I 
> just start reverting?

I commented on another of granpueblo's changesets on 21st May and have also
not had a response yet. Given that, you probably only need to wait just a
couple of days before embarking on a revert.

(More generally, we need to think about how we communicate "be bold in what
you add, careful in what you change" to new mappers. We see this fairly
often in the UK too - over-assertive changes from someone who, through no
fault of their own, doesn't understand OSM conventions; and on occasion the
response ends up putting the contributor off continuing with OSM.)

Richard



--
View this message in context: 
http://gis.19327.n8.nabble.com/NJ-mass-road-demotions-tp5894719p5897753.html
Sent from the USA mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

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